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Old Jul 13, 2003, 03:38 PM   #1
leonardobeat
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Default Pauline Sutcliffe accuses Lennon for her brother\'s death

Stu's sister auctions a notebook with her brother's annotations where supposedly, Stu says John kicked him in the head in an attack of anger. Pauline accuses Lennon of causing the cerebral spill that finally would finish with her brother's death.
She also declares that John and Stuart had a homosexual relationship and she says John Lennon even admitted it.

I've been looking for an english site with the whole note but I've couldn't find it. If you understand spanish I will link the site for you:

Whole note in spanish
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Old Jul 13, 2003, 03:46 PM   #2
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Default Re: Pauline Sutcliffe accuses Lennon for her brother\'s death

This supposed information was brought to light by Pauline Sutcliffe in her latest book on Stu last year. I reviewed the book for Daytrippin Magazine, and frankly, I thought she was airing a lot of dirty laundry -- that, plus the fact that in previous books she said she did NOT believe that John was in any way responsible for Stu's death, and the fact that she uses Geoffrey Giuliano and Albert Goldman as sources for her belief that he WAS, and for her belief that Stu and John had a homosexual relationship, makes me suspect that there are other motives involved here.

Exactly what they are I am not sure, but I think that perhaps Ms. Sutcliffe (whom I met last year) has an axe to grind.
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Old Jul 13, 2003, 04:05 PM   #3
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Default Re: Pauline Sutcliffe accuses Lennon for her brother\'s death

The note mentions her book but I couldn't really say nothingh about that because I have never seen the book or a review of it.

Do you know of some place where I can read a review of the book or at least the "interesting" part?

Even if there are some other motives behind the book I think it was quiet interesting knowing who really kicked Stuart. I always thought he was attacked by teddyboys in Liverpool. That's what I did read in everywhere.
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Old Jul 13, 2003, 04:09 PM   #4
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Default Re: Pauline Sutcliffe accuses Lennon for her brother\'s death

Quote:
Originally Posted By leonardobeat:
The note mentions her book but I couldn't really say nothingh about that because I have never seen the book or a review of it.

Do you know of some place where I can read a review of the book or at least the "interesting" part?

Even if there are some other motives behind the book I think it was quiet interesting knowing who really kicked Stuart. I always thought he was attacked by teddyboys in Liverpool. That's what I did read in everywhere.
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Well, I wrote a review of it for Daytrippin last year...but you can't read that online. There might be a few reviews in British publications, she never did get a US publisher, and what stories there WERE here were all lurid in publications like the NY Post, not the most reliable of sources.

If I can find what I wrote for Daytrippin, I can post it here if you want...
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Old Jul 13, 2003, 04:12 PM   #5
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Default Re: Pauline Sutcliffe accuses Lennon for her brother\'s death

Quote:
Originally Posted By HMVNipper:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Originally Posted By leonardobeat:
The note mentions her book but I couldn't really say nothingh about that because I have never seen the book or a review of it.

Do you know of some place where I can read a review of the book or at least the "interesting" part?

Even if there are some other motives behind the book I think it was quiet interesting knowing who really kicked Stuart. I always thought he was attacked by teddyboys in Liverpool. That's what I did read in everywhere.
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Well, I wrote a review of it for Daytrippin last year...but you can't read that online. There might be a few reviews in British publications, she never did get a US publisher, and what stories there WERE here were all lurid in publications like the NY Post, not the most reliable of sources.

If I can find what I wrote for Daytrippin, I can post it here if you want...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Of course! I'm really interested on it. Thank you in advance [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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Old Jul 13, 2003, 04:21 PM   #6
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Default Re: Pauline Sutcliffe accuses Lennon for her brother\'s death

I can't find it in my files -- I've written to the editor and asked her if she has a copy she can send back to me...once I hear from her I can let you know if I can post it...
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Old Jul 13, 2003, 05:29 PM   #7
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Default Re: Pauline Sutcliffe accuses Lennon for her brother\'s death

Quote:
Originally Posted By HMVNipper:
This supposed information was brought to light by Pauline Sutcliffe in her latest book on Stu last year. I reviewed the book for Daytrippin Magazine, and frankly, I thought she was airing a lot of dirty laundry -- that, plus the fact that in previous books she said she did NOT believe that John was in any way responsible for Stu's death, and the fact that she uses Geoffrey Giuliano and Albert Goldman as sources for her belief that he WAS, and for her belief that Stu and John had a homosexual relationship, makes me suspect that there are other motives involved here.

Exactly what they are I am not sure, but I think that perhaps Ms. Sutcliffe (whom I met last year) has an axe to grind.
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">I had pretty much the same opinion of the book, given that it is the opposite of what she had said in the past.
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Old Jul 13, 2003, 05:32 PM   #8
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Default Re: Pauline Sutcliffe accuses Lennon for her brother\'s death

Just to let you know, the editor said she does indeed have my article, but she's at work now and will have to send it to me when she gets home...so I should have my review to post here tomorrow if all goes well...
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Old Jul 13, 2003, 05:41 PM   #9
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Default Re: Pauline Sutcliffe accuses Lennon for her brother\'s death

That's a lie and she knows it. I hate when people write a tell-all book when they weren't there. Obviously she knew Stuart and spent time with him, but she wasn't there when he died.
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Old Jul 13, 2003, 06:10 PM   #10
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Default Re: Pauline Sutcliffe accuses Lennon for her brother\'s death

I just love how people, like Pauline, completely ignore the medical information provided to clear John's name. Since I wasn't there, I have no idea whether John actually kicked Stu or not, but bad things happen between friends. However, a kick is not what killed Stu months and month later...not with a brain hemorage.

-lennon4

Btw...if I can find my sources for the medical information, I will post them.
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Old Jul 13, 2003, 06:45 PM   #11
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Default Re: Pauline Sutcliffe accuses Lennon for her brother\'s death

Everything I was thinking has been said already, so I'll just say I agree with what's been said [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

It's funny it took her so long to come up with this, Stu died in what, 1960?
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Old Jul 13, 2003, 07:14 PM   #12
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Default Re: Pauline Sutcliffe accuses Lennon for her brother\'s death

Yeah, the whole thing sounds like Ms. Sutcliffe does indeed have some axes to grind. We all know the Messrs Guilano and Goldman are not the most reliable sources.

I am going to move this to Paperback Writer since this is about a written work and I think it will catch more attention and draw more input over there.
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Old Jul 13, 2003, 07:35 PM   #13
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Default Re: Pauline Sutcliffe accuses Lennon for her brother\'s death

Quote:
Originally Posted By HMVNipper:
Just to let you know, the editor said she does indeed have my article, but she's at work now and will have to send it to me when she gets home...so I should have my review to post here tomorrow if all goes well...
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Ok, thanks so much! [img]graemlins/thumbsup2.gif[/img] *

And thanks to BB for moving the topic to a better place although I posted on the other forum because I read it in a note of press. And by the way, I just found the site where the note originally comes from:

'Fifth Beatle' died after fight with Lennon, sister claims.
The brain haemorrhage that led to Stuart Sutcliffe's death was caused by his closest friend, claims the sister of the former bass player. And the proof is in the archive she is about to auction, writes James Morrison
13 July 2003


The sister of Stuart Sutcliffe, the "fifth Beatle", is to make public startling new evidence that strengthens her claim that his death was caused by a kick to the head from John Lennon.

Pauline Sutcliffe, who believes her brother was beaten up by Lennon in the months before he died, is to sell off a huge archive containing a sketchbook that indicates a rapid decline in his mental health after the alleged incident.

The timing of the pad's entries will bolster her case that the brain haemorrhage that killed Sutcliffe at the age of 21 was caused not by a street brawl, as has long been supposed, but by a blow to the head from his closest friend.

Beatles historians have long been divided over the cause of the haemorrhage that led Sutcliffe, who left the band after two years to pursue a fine-art career, to collapse in Hamburg on 10 April 1962. At the time, medical specialists found no trace of disease, and it has long been argued that his death was ultimately the result of injuries sustained in a fight up to three years earlier, in which Lennon is said to have defended him.

However, Ms Sutcliffe believes the decisive factor was a fight he had with Lennon himself. It is this theory that gives one of the many sketchbooks in the Sutcliffe archive, valued at £1m and to be auctioned at Bonhams later this month, its significance. The black book - dated to October 1961, after the alleged Lennon fight - contains a series of barely legible scrawls and pained exclamations apparently reflecting Sutcliffe's gradual mental collapse.

The pages of the book are peppered with cries for help. Words and phrases such as "torment", "shout", "explode" and "the bloody brain" appear in shaky handwriting, often surrounded by exclamation marks and accompanied by unsettling abstract designs. Elsewhere, Sutcliffe uses sketches to "dissect" his brain and tries to rationalise his condition while comforting himself with details of the help he can expect from medical specialists. The book's content stands in stark contrast to that of the various earlier pads included in the archive, which show Sutcliffe flowering as a gifted draughtsman and poet.

In her recent biography of Sutcliffe, The Beatles' Shadow, Ms Sutcliffe wrote: "I believe that the cerebral haemorrhage that cost Stuart his life was caused by an injury inflicted by John in a jealous rage. A postmortem revealed Stuart had a dent in his skull, as though from a blow or kick. And a few months earlier, John had viciously kicked my brother in the head in a sustained, unprovoked attack."

Yesterday she reiterated this belief and said she hoped the auction at Bonhams on 29 July would allow the public to make up its own mind if these and other theories about her brother's life were true. Referring to the commonly held view that Sutcliffe's brain was damaged in a fight as far back as 1959, she said: "The medical opinion is that something in 1959 will not have waited three years. There was a later beating-up from John and others have reported it without any reference to me at all."

Asked if she believed the punch-up with Lennon was the most significant contributing factor to her brother's death, she replied: "Yes." She also re-stated her belief that Sutcliffe and Lennon, who became close friends while studying together at Liverpool College of Art, had a homosexual affair. "John said himself at one point that this happened."

Ms Sutcliffe's renewed assertions are already provoking debate among Beatles aficionados. Alan Clayson, with whom she co-wrote Backbeat, the film based on Sutcliffe's life with the Beatles, dismissed the claim, saying it was a direct contradiction of conclusions she came to with him. "We concluded that Stuart wasn't beaten up by John Lennon - his condition was brought on by an overuse of amphetamines," he said. Mr Clayson believes Sutcliffe was only ever involved in one significant fight, at Lathom Hall, Seaforth, Liverpool, in early 1961. On this occasion, he said, the "only involvement Lennon had was to wade in and help him".

The sketchbook, valued at £3,000 to £4,000, is only the tip of a huge iceberg of valuable memorabilia contained in the archive. Also included is a series of "lost" Beatles songs that may or may not have been co-written with Lennon during Sutcliffe's fleeting time as the band's bass player between 1959 and 1961.

The witty, frequently wistful, lyrics appear to give the lie to the widely held belief that Sutcliffe, though a gifted visual artist, was no songwriter. One song, written in 1959, begins: "Everybody's ever got somebody caring. Everybody's got a love they're sharing. Everybody but me."

Among the other items is a sheaf of letters written to Sutcliffe's family by his German fiancée, Astrid Kirchherr, after his death. In them, she heaps praise on Lennon and George Harrison but pointedly fails even to mention Sutcliffe's other bandmates, Pete Best or Paul McCartney. Ms Sutcliffe suggests the omission of McCartney was intentional, and reflected the intense rivalry between him and her brother for Lennon's affections.

Ms Sutcliffe, who has just sold a smaller archive of ephemera to the Museum of Liverpool Life, says her main motive for releasing the material is to "give it its wings" and allow the public to judge its merits for itself. "Hopefully, it reveals he wasn't just a pretty face who played the bass guitar very badly," she said.

What's going under the hammer?

Item: Sutcliffe's final sketchbook

What it is: Black book containing scrawls and abstract sketches

Estimated value: £3,000-£4,000

Item: Lyrics for five "lost" Beatles songs

What they are: At least one is thought to have been co-written with John Lennon

Estimated value: £3,000-£4,000

Item: Letters from Astrid Kirchherr to Sutcliffe's family

What they are: The eight letters praise Lennon and George Harrison, who is said to "sing a lovely song"

Estimated value: £5,400-£7,000

Item: Love notes from Sutcliffe to Astrid

What they are: Three handwritten notes, including one which begins: "My beautiful darling. I love you. Thank you so much for your love"

Estimated value: £1,400-£2,000

Press note

Alike all of you I also think her words has much of exageration but I don't want to give an opinion yet.
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Old Jul 13, 2003, 09:38 PM   #14
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Default Re: Pauline Sutcliffe accuses Lennon for her brother\'s death

Thanks for posting the press note, Leonardo. [img]graemlins/clap1.gif[/img]

Quote:
Originally Posted By lennon4:
I just love how people, like Pauline, completely ignore the medical information provided to clear John's name. Since I wasn't there, I have no idea whether John actually kicked Stu or not, but bad things happen between friends. However, a kick is not what killed Stu months and month later...not with a brain hemorage.

-lennon4

Btw...if I can find my sources for the medical information, I will post them.
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">I agree! For anyone interested in learning more about Stu's death, here are a couple of excellent websites on the subject:

Beatles Reference Library - What killed Stu?
http://www.liv.ac.uk/ipm/beatles/breflib/studead.html

A Medically Informed Post-Mortem on Stu Sutcliffe
http://www.recmusicbeatles.com/publi...s/bbs/stu.html
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Old Jul 14, 2003, 01:17 AM   #15
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Default Re: Pauline Sutcliffe accuses Lennon for her brother\'s death

I read the news today,oh boy !

Altough I am a skilled man,50 year’s old,I am always astonished how certain kind of people is always
looking for dirty money.
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Old Jul 14, 2003, 08:11 AM   #16
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Default Re: Pauline Sutcliffe accuses Lennon for her brother\'s death

Yeah I'm just gonna agree pretty much with what's been said cuz I dont believe a word of Pauline said...
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Old Jul 14, 2003, 09:17 AM   #17
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Default Re: Pauline Sutcliffe accuses Lennon for her brother\'s death

i'd like to know what astrid has to say about all this. she was with stu constantly at the time.
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Old Jul 14, 2003, 09:40 AM   #18
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Default Re: Pauline Sutcliffe accuses Lennon for her brother\'s death

Quote:
Originally Posted By onosideboards:
i'd like to know what astrid has to say about all this. she was with stu constantly at the time.
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Well, Astrid hasn't said much -- but boy, Pauline isn't very nice about her in the book! [img]graemlins/nono.gif[/img]
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Old Jul 14, 2003, 10:08 AM   #19
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Default Re: Pauline Sutcliffe accuses Lennon for her brother\'s death

really? that's interesting. what on earth does pauline have against all these people? she's only going to lose backers, not gain them. talk about bitter...
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Old Jul 14, 2003, 03:50 PM   #20
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Default Re: Pauline Sutcliffe accuses Lennon for her brother\'s death

IT HINK SHE IS GRASPING AT STRAWS. I DOUBT JOHN HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH STU'S DEATH BUT HE ISN'T HERE AND SO SHE FEELS SHE CAN SAY THINGS BECAUSE NOBODY IS LEFT. ODD HOW PEOPLE LOVE TO DO THAT. JOHN WAS NO ANGEL NEITHER ARE ANY OF US BUT SHE LLOSES CREDIBILITY BY SAYING THINGS LIKE THAT.
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