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Old Jun 26, 2009, 02:14 AM   #21
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I've never really thought about it. I assume Paul could've outbid Michael if he truly wanted to. Besides, we don't know all the facts. Maybe, if Michael had not bought it, Yoko would. I wonder if Paul had preferred that?

Still, maybe now isn't the best of times to discuss this?
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Old Jun 26, 2009, 03:53 AM   #22
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I believe Paul and Yoko put in a joint bid, hibgal.
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Old Jun 26, 2009, 05:48 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by ringo_rama View Post
Am I the only one who never really cared that MJ owned the catalog? It's not like Paul or Yoko were ever hurting for cash. It probably wasn't the nicest thing to do to a peer but business is business.
No... It never bothered me either. I mean, Paul certainly could've bought it, right? Yoko could've? They could've gone in share it & split it up?

I remember Paul saying he didn't think it was right that he would have to buy his own stuff back, but he DID sign the original contract with John. Sure, they were young, naive & didn't know how well the songs would do, how long they would last & the music industry was "younger" then. I mean, who knew??? But, if you sign it away,... who can you blame?

Anyway, no one seemed pissed off at all the previous owner of the music. It was just when it went to a smart young man who bought it up & was in the public eye. I even have an interview where Paul admits that Michael even told Paul while they were working together that he was going to buy the catalog. So, you know,... Even Paul was saying he thought at the time Michael was kidding & he wouldn't really do it. I mean, if Paul doesn't think his music is worth what Michael paid... & Yoko must not have either... then whatever... ya know?

It never bothered me either. However, I would love to see it somehow end up back in the hands of Paul & John's estate. It's just morally where it belongs, ya know?

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Old Jun 26, 2009, 07:33 AM   #24
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Well the ownership of the songs certainly bothered me and not from a who is profiting standpoint but how the songs are licensed out. I cringe anytime I hear a Beatles song being used to peddle frivolous material items or hotel chains. Perhaps if Paul owned them he would treat them with a bit more sanctity or perhaps not. I guess if Wacko was truly having financial problems then what better cash cow than the Beatles catalogue.
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Old Jun 26, 2009, 01:09 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ringo_rama View Post
Am I the only one who never really cared that MJ owned the catalog? It's not like Paul or Yoko were ever hurting for cash. It probably wasn't the nicest thing to do to a peer but business is business.
No of course not. i had always thought it was just a business deal, around the edges it might have seemed a bit inappropriate to some.
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Old Jun 26, 2009, 01:12 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by murrow View Post
Well the ownership of the songs certainly bothered me and not from a who is profiting standpoint but how the songs are licensed out. I cringe anytime I hear a Beatles song being used to peddle frivolous material items or hotel chains. Perhaps if Paul owned them he would treat them with a bit more sanctity or perhaps not. I guess if Wacko was truly having financial problems then what better cash cow than the Beatles catalogue.
yeah i never thought i would see the day when Beatles music was just one step above elevator muzak, and the lyrics would miss their punch.
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Old Jun 27, 2009, 10:26 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by PepperlandFrog View Post
yeah i never thought i would see the day when Beatles music was just one step above elevator muzak, and the lyrics would miss their punch.
On Channel 2 (TV listings) I've heard Here comes the sun, and When I'm 64 without the lyrics.
It made me smile
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Old Jun 28, 2009, 07:07 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Asha View Post
It never bothered me either. However, I would love to see it somehow end up back in the hands of Paul & John's estate. It's just morally where it belongs, ya know?
I've always thought if Paul was so sore about it as he made out, he could've bought it back (at least partially) the other year when Michael had all his financial troubles and ended up selling half its interest to Sony. He didn't.
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Old Jun 28, 2009, 12:38 PM   #29
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This is the first thing I thought about when I heard about Jackson's passing. Hopefully, when all is said and done, the Beatles songs and rights that Michael had will go to Macca and Ono.

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Old Jun 28, 2009, 03:59 PM   #30
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I think I heard something about them going into a trust because they are too valuable for his creditors to get their paws on. Michael had recently re-hired the lawyer that set up the deal to get the songs in the first place so i am sure he is taking care of it all. but man, who knows. it will all take years to sort out by the sound of it.
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Old Jun 29, 2009, 06:03 AM   #31
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It's interesting that so many people say Paul was upset about it. I have a couple of interviews of him on video tape in my collection & he's just shrugging his shoulders saying things like how he couldn't be angry at Michael & that Michael can spend his money on whatever he likes. Paul admits that he could've also bought them, but just didn't think they were work quite THAT much. He did admit that Michael told him he was going to buy Paul's music & Paul laughed & thought it was a joke. Maybe over the years it bothered Paul??? I dunno... I just know that when it happened, he was like... "Well, whatever..." I'm sure though that he had to have been bummed on some level to be reminded that he didn't even own his own music. That's still got to be hard to think about. The bottom line is, everything is for sale at some price. So if Paul wants them that badly, he can buy them.
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Old Jun 29, 2009, 06:15 AM   #32
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Jackson's Beatles rights at risk

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment...rights-at-risk

The Fab Four's prized catalogue - specifically 267 songs mostly written by John Lennon and Paul McCartney - is embarking on a long and winding road of ownership uncertainty following the death of Michael Jackson on Thursday.

The pop singer and Sony Corp's Sony Music arm operated a lucrative joint venture that either owns or administers the copyrights to about 750,000 compositions written by the likes of Bob Dylan, Neil Diamond, Taylor Swift and the Jonas Brothers.

Industry analysts estimate that Sony/ATV Music Publishing is worth at least US$1 billion, making Jackson one savvy entertainer. His initial investment cost him US$47.5 million in 1985. Music publishing is considered a license to print money. Not quite as exciting as the piracy-ravaged recorded-music side, it involves collecting royalties from such diverse avenues as downloads, radio airplay and videogames.

But mystery now surrounds the beneficial ownership of Jackson's stake. According to a lawsuit filed in 2002 by a creditor, he secured bank loans totalling US$270 million two years earlier using both his Sony/ATV stake and the copyrights to his own songs as collateral.

Jackson lived an extravagant lifestyle, even as his commercial appeal dwindled amid damaging child-abuse allegations and changing music tastes. The Wall Street Journal reported in 2005 that his cash reserves ran so low earlier that year that he worried about paying his electric bill. The paper reported earlier this month that he had racked up about $500 million of debt.

'VERY COMPLEX' VALUATIONS

A clearer picture of his finances will emerge during the administration period of his estate that usually lasts about 18 months, said Renee Gabbard of the law firm Paul, Hastings, Janofsky & Walker in Costa Mesa, California.

Jackson's executors will evaluate his assets, file the estate tax return and invite creditors to submit invoices, said Gabbard, who has a number of wealthy clients with entertainment-related estates.

The process of valuing estate assets, especially intellectual property like music copyrights, is "very complex" and often takes "quite a while," said Gabbard.

"When you have entertainers and musicians they usually have quite extensive royalty contracts. It's very tough to put a value on a catalog of songs," she said.

Jackson and Sony formed their joint venture in 1995, with the singer contributing ATV Songs, whose 4,000 tunes included most of the Beatles catalogue. He had bought ATV a decade earlier from Australian businessman Robert Holmes a Court, famously outbidding McCartney in the process.

Jackson was not involved in the day-to-day operations of Sony/ATV, but as a lover of the songwriting process was known to be "incredibly proud" of the company and its fast growth, according to a publishing industry source.

Ad Feedback A spokesman for Sony/ATV declined to comment.

His stakes in both Sony/ATV and in Mijac, which holds his own copyrights, were owned by trusts. It was not clear if they were irrevocable or not. If they are revocable, then they could be dismantled to satisfy creditors, Gabbard said.

The estate would first pay federal taxes owed on Jackson's assets, most notably the publishing companies. The remaining assets then would go to satisfy creditors and the balance probably would be placed into separate trusts for his beneficiaries, most likely his children, Gabbard said.

But the publishing industry source said it was too premature to speculate about a possible change in ownership at Sony/ATV, which is run by music industry veteran Martin Bandier.

Additionally, each side is reportedly entitled to make a counter-offer if the other side lines up a buyer, or to bid for the other half it does not own.

The Beatles catalogue, meanwhile, just keeps raking in money. The group's CDs will be reissued on September 9, the same day that a Fab Four version of the "Rock Band" videogame hits stores.
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Old Jun 29, 2009, 06:34 AM   #33
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Yeah I figured something like that was gonna happen.
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Old Jul 09, 2009, 09:56 AM   #34
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Well here you go: directly from Paul on this whole issue.

http://www.paulmccartney.com/news.php#/1674/2009-07

Some time ago, the media came up with the idea that Michael Jackson was going to leave his share in the Beatles songs to me in his will which was completely made up and something I didnít believe for a second.

Now the report is that I am devastated to find that he didnít leave the songs to me. This is completely untrue. I had not thought for one minute that the original report was true and therefore, the report that Iím devastated is also totally false, so donít believe everything you read folks!

In fact, though Michael and I drifted apart over the years, we never really fell out, and I have fond memories of our time together.

At times like this, the press do tend to make things up, so occasionally, I feel the need to put the record straight.

Paul
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Old Jul 09, 2009, 09:59 AM   #35
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I saw that too this morning, ok well another piece of gossip crap we can forget about, I hope and maybe learn from.
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Old Jul 10, 2009, 04:22 AM   #36
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I like it how Paul picks what he speaks out about. Well said Paul!
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Old Jul 14, 2009, 07:30 AM   #37
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Michael actually bought the rights from a Perth millionaire businessman named Robert Holmes a Court. Robert passed quite a few years ago now. Robert went ahead with the sale to Michael as Michael was the only one who was willing to personally fly to Perth and meet with him and appear on our local charity event called Telethon. He didn't perform, but made a few public appearances here and there around Perth.

Bit of trivia for you all.
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Old Jul 14, 2009, 06:45 PM   #38
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It would be nice since he stole them in the first place.
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Old Aug 04, 2009, 12:56 PM   #39
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Dandy Warhols Cover 'Blackbird' After Michael Jackson's Death

When Dandy Warhols frontman Courtney Taylor-Taylor sang "When Michael Jackson dies/ We're covering Blackbird" on the title track of 2003's 'Welcome to the Monkey House,' he didn't expect to fulfill the promise six years later. Alas, the Portland band just released their version of the Beatles hit just over a month after Jackson's unexpected death at the age of 50. As Taylor-Taylor tells Spinner, "The story is exponentially longer than the song."

"I wrote a very short little song making vague references to how gross the business side of making music is," Taylor-Taylor -- who was upset with the band's label over their critique of 'Monkey House' -- continues. The song includes lines about Elastica being sued by Wire for plagiarism, as well as the line aimed at Jackson. "It was because he had outbid Paul McCartney on Paul McCartney's songs," Taylor-Taylor says. "That's the rudest thing you can possibly do. I guess the difference is Paul McCartney is one of the greatest songwriters in history and Michael Jackson is one of the greatest singer/dancers in history, so it's the difference between an entertainer and a writer. Rumor has it that Jackson just said to McCartney, 'I'm a businessman,' so I guess he was, and thus when Michael Jackson is no longer alive to receive publishing money from the Beatles, we'll cover a Beatles song."

For Taylor-Taylor, the choice of 'Blackbird' wasn't because the song is a personal favorite. "It's a bummer because it's a hard song to cover," he says. "'Blackbird' was the only Beatles song that fit into the rhyme scheme of 'absurd' and 'heard.' I don't even know if it was one of the songs Jackson bought. I should have done 'I Want to Hold Your Hand' or something."

Of course, as soon as Jackson died, Taylor-Taylor was repeatedly reminded of the promise. "I was in England and woke up one morning to 18 texts that said 'I guess you're going to cover 'Blackbird' and 'Dude, cover time,'" he says. Warhols guitarist Peter Holmstrom started an arrangement right away and the rest of the band added their parts later on. "It's a little trippier, a little dreamier," Taylor-Taylor says of their version. "We slowed it down and I sang it very high, and then we sped it back up. It actually sounds like Michael Jackson singing it. It's sweet and lullaby-ish but there's something creepy without it being Gothic, which is great."

Despite the anti-Jackson sentiment on 'Monkey House,' Taylor-Taylor holds the late singer in high regard. "Michael Jackson is one of the 10 biggest names in the 20th century," he says. "He's up there with Elvis, Adolf. He's bigger than Mick Jagger." Taylor-Taylor also doesn't see any problem with the incessant media coverage of MJ's death. "He was so important to music and culture and had become an iconic freak," he says. "It wasn't like the media coverage when that Guess jeans supermodel that then became a big jelly donut died. Anna Nicole Smith. They treated her like a true legend, a truly important entertainer died. So, I wasn't horrified by the coverage."

'Blackbird' and 'The Dandy Warhols Are Sound,' the band's newly released original mix of 2003's 'Welcome to the Monkey House,' are available on the band's official website.
http://www.spinner.com/2009/08/03/da...son-s-death%2F

I thought this was the best place to post this.
If it's not I imagine one of the mods will move it.

You can listen to the cover here:

http://www.dandywarhols.com/
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Old Mar 21, 2016, 10:41 AM   #40
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Bumping if only because of recent relevant news (not sure if this has been discussed elsewhere on the forums, but it seems to fit here):

Quote:
Sony has agreed to pay the estate of Michael Jackson $750 million for its share of the Sony/ATV Music Publishing catalog, the two parties announced late on Monday, ending one of the most closely watched contests in the music industry.

Sony/ATV, a joint venture formed by Sony and Jackson in 1995, is one of the jewels of the music industry. The catalog has more than one million copyrights, including about 250 songs by the Beatles.

The catalog is for music publishing rights, which cover the lyrics and music that are embodied in any recording.

The fate of Sony/ATV, which in addition to the Beatles catalog has hits by acts like Taylor Swift and Lady Gaga, has been one of the music world’s most intriguing guessing games since October. At the time, it emerged that Sony had, apparently with no warning, notified the Jackson estate that the company was initiating the buy-sell provision in its joint-venture deal, in which either party could purchase the other’s half.

Despite the difference in size between Sony and the estate, it was never certain which party would be the buyer.

When Jackson died in 2009, he left more than $500 million in debt, which the estate has mostly eliminated through deals for movies, recordings, theatrical shows and merchandise. Sony, on the other hand, has been suffering from a declining consumer electronics business, and in recent years investors have pressured the company to sell assets to raise cash.

Jackson’s control of the Beatles’ material has been one of the great business legends of the industry. Jackson acquired it when he bought the ATV publishing catalog for more than $40 million in 1985, some time after Paul McCartney made an offhand remark to Jackson about the value of music publishing. In 1995, Jackson sold a 50 percent share of ATV to Sony for about $100 million, creating the Sony/ATV joint venture.

For Sony, the deal will bring a measure of simplicity to its complex music-publishing holdings. Although it will no longer have the Jackson estate as a partner on Sony/ATV, it still has a separate deal for the EMI Music Publishing catalog. Sony bought that catalog for $2.2 billion in 2012 with a group of other investors, among them the sovereign wealth fund Mubadala of Abu Dhabi.

By controlling both the Sony/ATV and EMI catalogs, Sony has wielded the biggest catalog in the music-publishing business, with annual sales of just under $600 million, according to Sony filings.

“This agreement further demonstrates Sony’s commitment to the entertainment businesses,” Kazuo Hirai, chief executive of the Sony Corporation, said in a statement, “and our firm belief that these businesses will continue to contribute to our success for years to come.”

John Branca and John McClain, the coexecutors of the Jackson estate, added that the deal “further allows us to continue our efforts of maximizing the value of Michael’s estate for the benefit of his children.”

The payment to the Jackson estate represents the value of its share of Sony/ATV after the debt on the company. According to the announcement, Sony will pay the Jackson estate a lump sum of $733 million, with the rest accounted for in payments previously committed to by Sony.

The parties said they expected a definitive agreement by the end of March, and that the deal was subject to regulatory approval.

The Jackson estate still has significant holdings in music. It was a minority investor in the EMI publishing deal, and still holds its interest in that catalog. It also has complete ownership of Jackson’s songs and recordings, as well as other publishing holdings that Jackson acquired in his lifetime, including songs by Sly Stone and early rock ’n’ roll classics made famous by Ray Charles and Elvis Presley.

And in another benefit for the Jackson side, once the deal is closed, the estate will be debt-free and hold hundreds of millions in cash.
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