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Old Jan 25, 2012, 04:58 PM   #1
4iiiis
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Default The women in John's life

Barbara

Thelma

Cynthia

Eleanor Bron


May


Yoko

I always find these types of discussions interesting. Obviously, we know about the main two, Cynthia and Yoko. And then there's May. But what about Barbara Baker, Thelma Pickles, and lesser known significant others?

And what about the gossip of possible love interests? After all, he was one of the most sought-after guys in the world. I have to believe there were quite a few other loves that are much lesser known...and a few unrequited loves as well.

So here's where you can share anecdotes, opinions, stories, and even just talk about which ones you like/dislike. Keep it respectful, but make it interesting!
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Old Jan 25, 2012, 05:02 PM   #2
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Default Barbara Baker (1 of 2)

I'll start with a story I found on this site: http://sentstarr.tripod.com/beatgirls/girl.html

Quote:
Barbara Baker

As a young teenager Barbara Baker lived in Ridgetor Road in Liverpool, and spent her summertime riding her bike or playing tennis in Calderstones Park with friends. John Lennon's half sister remembers her as his "first fully-fledged fan... a strawberry blonde called Barbara. She was only a schoolgirl, but to Jaqui and me she was like a film star with lots of long, blonde hair and glamour."
During a visit with her friend Miranda to Reynolds Park the two girls were followed across the park by two boys named Len Garry and John Lennon. The girls were often visited the park but had never seen these boys there before as they usually hung out around Calderstones Park, but had recently gone off in a boat at Calderstones without paying and daren't risk seeing the boat man or the park keeper. The boys had tried to follow the girls at a dicreet distance right through the park until they were almost at Beaconsfield Road and then lost them. "We followed them from a resonable distance." Len remembered, "Eventually we came across an area that was surrounded by a huge stone wall with an open timber gate set into the middle of it. It was a very secluded part of the park, almost as though we had wandered onto private property and the two girls had disappeared. We parked our bikes up against the wall and went through the gate." They worked out that the girls had disappered into a small tunnel at the bottom of a sloped clearing and waited around for them to re-appear. When they did, Len and John introduced themselves and persuaded Barbara to show them the tunnel.

Barbara decided she liked Len best out of the two boys and arranged to meet him.
" 'Barbara,' I said after about ten minutes, 'tell me honestly who you like best.'
'Why you of course.' ...John and I got together and discussed the situation.
'John did you ask her who she liked best?'
'Yeah and she said she fancied you - you dirty rat!'
'Look John, I'm going to ask her out to be my steady girlfriend, if it doesn't work out you can step in.' "
They started going out frequently but mainly went off on bike rides to places such as the Mersey Estuary out at Haleshore because they couldn't afford trips to the pictures. Len was the only one out of his gang who had a steady girlfriend and used to drive the others mad about it. She always met Len at the end of Linkstor Road where he would wait with a few of his friends. She enjoyed the attention from the other boys and often John and her would catch each others eyes. After only a few weeks John started going out with her and Len didn't really object or do anything to stop them.

Barbara first started taking notice of John one Sunday afternoon when she was walking home from Sunday School with a friend. John and his friend Pete came charging down the lane and when John spotted Barbara's hair up in a ponytail he began to shout "Oh, there's horseface! Horse's tail and horse's face!". This made Barbara think that John hadn't changed much since they were little when he was the boy who'd perch in a tree and shoot arrows at her and other girls as they walked home from school. He stopped teasing her and they had a short conversation as they walked along the road. Barbara was surprised to see that John was very smartly dressed in a white shirt, school tie and blue blazer, and after he'd managed to speak in a civilised manner to her for a few minutes she accepted his invitation to walk about a few nights later.

Barbara and John Lennon were together for over a year, her being his first real girlfriend and reportedly the first girl he slept with when he was 16 years old. When John rushed to tell his best friend Pete Shotton about this, it wasn't just his kiss-and-tell attitude that showed his lack of care and tact towards Barbara. Pete remembered his report clearly, a report which was none too flattering towards Barbara and soon proved that John's behaviour towards her had been less than courteous at the time. A trend which continued throughout their physical relationship when a lack of privacy caused Barbara and John, along with his friend Pete and Pete's girlfriend, not only to share the same room, but also sometimes the same bed. Years later, John's recollections of his time with Barbara continued in the same trend. "I remember a night, or should I say day, in my teens when I was f***ing my girlfriend on a gravestone and my arse got covered in greenfly. This was a good lesson in karma and/or gardening."

John left Barbara for a short while and started going out with a girl called Margaret Jones who had also gone out with Len Garry, but went back to Barbara before long and was still with her when his and Len's gang formed a music group called The Quarrymen and began playing dances and events such as the St Peter's Church Fete in 1957 where John Lennon and Paul McCartney first met.

Barbara would call round at his house frequently to see him but nearly always got told he was out by his Auntie Mimi. John's half-sister, Julia Baird, remembers her doing the same at John's mother's house: "She ought to have taken a tent for the amount of times she was outside the house, just watching the house, gardens, windows and door... She hung about outside our house for hours at a time, waiting to see John. When it first started happening, Jaqui and I couldn't make out what she was doing there. John must have suspected and our mother must have guessed, although she was much too discreet to say anything. We learned later that first she would go to Mimi's house, where John normally lived. Not finding him there, she came to our house, walking all the way to save the bus fare. John's friends always knew where to find him if he wasn't at home with Mimi. 'That poor girl,' my mother would often say, giving a tremendous sigh... She ought to have taken a tent for the number of times she was outside the house, just watching the house, gardens, windows and door."

John's mother and her children thought that she was just a fan of John and his group The Quarrymen at first, but his two half-sisters soon discovered otherwise. "One day Barbara was hanging round as usual, standing by the lampost where we had set up a tarzan swing. When we went out to play, she called me over and asked me to get John to come outside. I raced inside with the message. John only gave a deep groan and begged our mother to please go out and send her away. Just a little annoyed by all this nonsense, my mother marched out to the front gate and called out politely but firmly, 'What is it you want, dear?' At the sight of her, the poor girl took to her heels and ran off up the road. Jaqui and I thought it was a great giggle, thoroughly enjoying the drama and Barbara's acute embarrassment. We set off after her, wanting to make the most of her discomfort, and caught up with her at the top of the road. To our amazement, instead of being further abashed by our tormenting, she turned to us like long lost friends. Please, please she begged, run home and persuade John to come and meet her. This time John's mood had miraculously changed. Casually he strode out of the front door and up the road for his encounter with Barbara. We followed them, waiting to hear John give her a good telling off. What happened next was totally unexpected. They embraced in a passionate kiss and sank down out of sight in the long willowy grass behind an old stone wall. We had another terrible fit of giggles. Sheepishly, John poked his head up over the wall and hissed at us to go away. We didn't, of course, and he had to bribe us in the end with half a crown, making us promise not to say anything to anyone. Later that evening at dinner, our mother berated John for allowing Barbara to walk all the way from Woolton, when he didn't want to see her. Only some timely kicks in the shins under the table stopped us blurting out the remarkable truth.".

Despite John's on-off behaviour with Barbara, she has very fond recollections of him, remembering him as "A very romantic boy; extremely romantic. He wrote pages and pages of poetry to me. Love - absolute romance. 'Here,' he would say, 'I've written you a letter, a poem, read it!... When he took exams, he would put my name at the bottom of his picture. That way he felt sure he would pass."

When Barbara met John's mother Julia properly as John's girlfriend, the two got on very well together. A situation which did not happen when she was eventually introduced to Julia's sister Mimi who was John's guardian at the time. Barbara remembers: "She was so well dressed and well spoken. I felt I better watch my P's and Q's with her. She always had to put on this image. I don't think she was popular. I never got on with Mimi. I think she thought - and she was probably right - it was getting too hot. And we were too young."

continued....1 of 2
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Old Jan 25, 2012, 05:03 PM   #3
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Default Barbara Baker (2 of 2)

continued...(2 of 2)

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In the second Summer of their relationship, Barbara started to feel unsure about being with John, she didn't feel as intensely about him as she had before, and decided she'd try dating a close friend of his, Bill Turner, for a while to see if she preferred being with Bill to John. "I cooled off him and started going out with his best friend behind his back. John went crazy. He nearly kicked a fence in that night. He was absolutely brokenhearted." A few weeks after that experiance Barbara decided that she preferred John after all, and after Bill had a word with John about it, Barbara and John got back together.

During the final year of school, and the first year of art college, John and Barbara were intensely involved, but when their familes realised the state of their relationship, neither of them were pleased, and it is said that his aunt and her mother broke up the relationship in the end. Barbara remembers her mother dragging her father round to visit Mimi when she discovered her daughter was getting involved at such a young age. "Mimi and my mum had a conversation - and my father. They sort of made us give it up. Made us split up." Neither of the couple had ever been the best behaved children, and weren't about to start following their parents orders. So John continued to see Barbara secretly throughout the first year of art college. At the beginning of the second year though, the romance fizzled out when John began to take notice of a fellow student named Cynthia Powell.

Len Garry reckons that "John thought the world of Barbara", and although they split up, he was still thinking of her in 1978: "Barbara, where are you now? Fat and ugly? Fifteen kids? Years of hell with me should have made you ready for anything. What's so sad about the past is that it's passed. I wonder who's kissing her now?"

SOURCES: John Lennon My Brother by Julia Baird, John Paul & Me: Before The Beatles by Len Garry, various Beatles and Lennon biographies and various interviews with Julia Baird
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Old Jan 26, 2012, 12:51 PM   #4
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They all seem so different from one another, except that they all have something of a magnetic draw to him. Well, I don't know about Eleanor Bron. Wasn't she just a rumor?
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Old Jan 26, 2012, 12:58 PM   #5
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Question Eleanor Bron

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Originally Posted by 4iiiis View Post
Barbara

Thelma

Eleanor Bron

I always find these types of discussions interesting. Obviously, we know about the main two, Cynthia and Yoko. And then there's May. But what about Barbara Baker, Thelma Pickles, and lesser known significant others?
Aah, that's a great idea, 4iiiis

I found the story of Barbara highly interesting, thank's for sharing

Well, I like Barbara, but I don't know why, I never got warm with Thelma I guess, she's just not my type of girl, but a man may look on her differently, of course. I know a bit her story, but I didn't like it very much the way she wrote about John.

Eleanor Bron ??? Who's that ? She wasn't the lover of John, was she ?

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Old Jan 26, 2012, 01:06 PM   #6
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Snoopy, I thought Thelma's story was interesting because she really emphasized the power John had over people. He was strong and extremely charismatic. She mentions how one of his friends was conventionally more handsome, but that she was instantly drawn to John- as everyone was.

I admit that John has a powerful presence. He's like a magnet. I got pulled in a little later but man...

Didn't Brigitte Bardot claim that "Norwegian Wood" was written about her? Wouldn't that have to imply...um, you know...
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Old Jan 26, 2012, 04:22 PM   #7
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Brigitte Bardot? No, it was written about ME. Even though I was, like, 2 at the time.

Anyone can say anything, and they do. Don't you think if John had made it with Brigitte he would have told the whole world? At least eventually?

I looked up the Eleanor Bron thing. Found an interview with her in MOJO in the 90's. She said that all that she and John did was go out to dinner - once. She said he was very interested in older women from whom he could learn; he was very eager after knowledge. I suppose you could interpret that to mean they slept together. Perhaps she was being discreet. But I didn't get the idea that he wanted to sleep with older women because of their superior *carnal* knowledge (although no doubt that probably was part of it). I think he just wanted an interesting woman he could talk to, someone who could teach him about a lot of things, not just nookie.
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Old Jan 26, 2012, 04:40 PM   #8
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I looked up the Eleanor Bron thing. Found an interview with her in MOJO in the 90's. She said that all that she and John did was go out to dinner - once. She said he was very interested in older women from whom he could learn; he was very eager after knowledge. I suppose you could interpret that to mean they slept together. Perhaps she was being discreet. But I didn't get the idea that he wanted to sleep with older women because of their superior *carnal* knowledge (although no doubt that probably was part of it). I think he just wanted an interesting woman he could talk to, someone who could teach him about a lot of things, not just nookie.
Enter Yoko.
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Old Jan 26, 2012, 04:43 PM   #9
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Yes, the whole Bardot thing...I don't know if he'd tell the world but I think there'd be more out there about it. I tend to think John blabbed about tons of things, but he was extremely discreet/private about certain other things that had to do with kiss-and-tell matters.

For example, all of Paul's indiscretions.

I always thought it was interesting that he was so appalled by George and Maureen. But I think it was because they all thought of each other's s.o.'s as like sisters in a way.
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Old Jan 26, 2012, 04:46 PM   #10
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The 1:07 mark of "For You Blue" on Let It Be - Naked, just took on a new meaning.
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Old Jan 26, 2012, 04:56 PM   #11
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Default Ronnie Spector

In her biography, Be My Baby, Ronnie Spector talks about the instant attraction her and John Lennon had for one another.


Obviously, she was married to Phil at the time...but as I recall, John took her into a room and started kissing her and, well, I'm not sure what else happened. All I recall is that she found him amazing (as a person) and saw him several times, and then for a long time didn't see him until, I believe, 1980. She mentioned how he looked soooo much thinner, but gorgeous.

Anyway, I couldn't find a snippet from her book but here is a 2009 interview where she mentions John:



Here is her version of "Happy Xmas" on the 30th anniversary for John:

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Old Jan 26, 2012, 05:05 PM   #12
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Default Alma Cogan

Apparently, John and Alma had quite a hot fling.



I found this on the site 4iiiis linked, but I knew about it beforehand:

Quote:
John Lennon had a bit of a thing for Alma which led to the two becomming very close friends during his frequent visits. Her sister remembers that "John always preferred to visit us when there was no one else around." He fondly nicknamed Alma "Sara Sequin" and would spend hours sat politely with her at her home enjoying the company of her family. he'd strangely had a mild fascination with her back in Liverpool when he was in art college, as his friend Helen Anderson recalls: "He used to make horrible jokes against the singer Alma Cogan, impersonating her singing 'sugar in the morning, sugar in the evening, sugar at suppertime'. He'd pull crazy expressions on his face to try to imitate her expressions. We all had hysterics."
Nothing could become of John and Alma's relationship because of John being married with a child, and Alma being very old-fashioned and unable to entertain the idea of getting serious with a married man. But she enjoyed his advances so long as they remained relatively chaste.
Here's a video where you can see John checking Alma out, and both having a bit of fun with each other starting at about 1:16:

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Old Jan 26, 2012, 09:26 PM   #13
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Hey Apple Scruff,

In her book and recent interviews, Ronnie stated although she kissed John a few times, that's as far as it went. She rebuffed any further advances, due to her devotion to Phil who was her steady bf at the time. They married in'66 I think. I read Phil picked up the chemistry and prevented Ronnie from being around John as much as possible. Ronnie was prevented from singing on the Beatles last tour route in 1966. I wonder when she found out he was married, I wonder if she got mad?
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Old Jan 26, 2012, 09:43 PM   #14
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Hey Apple Scruff,

In her book and recent interviews, Ronnie stated although she kissed John a few times, that's as far as it went. She rebuffed any further advances, due to her devotion to Phil who was her steady bf at the time. They married in'66 I think. I read Phil picked up the chemistry and prevented Ronnie from being around John as much as possible.
Thanks for that info peanut! I recall reading it at Half Price Books but I didn't purchase it. I sort of read the parts that interested me anyway.
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Old Jan 26, 2012, 09:51 PM   #15
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Default Mama Cass

I only know what I read from the biography of, I believe, one of the members. Anyway, the story went: Mama Cass had a huge, massive crush on John. She LOVED him. Like a serious fangirl. So one day they were at some gathering and John was there. Mama wanted to go up to him and say something but she was too shy, so someone mentioned to John about how much Cass wanted to meet him, and he went over there to her and asked her to dance. Well, according to what I remember she was always very insecure about her weight. But when she was dancing with John he told her, "luv, you're beautiful" and made her feel so special.

So all the members of the Mamas and the Papas instantly loved John because he was so kind and lovely to Cass.

(Funny connection that John L's son would eventually have a serious relationship with John P's daughter and their breakup would spur him to write the beautiful Friendly Fire.)

Here is Mama Cass doing "I Call Your Name" with the rest. She apparently did this just for John.

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Old Jan 27, 2012, 06:41 AM   #16
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Default Thelma & Brigitte Bardot

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Snoopy, I thought Thelma's story was interesting because she really emphasized the power John had over people. He was strong and extremely charismatic. She mentions how one of his friends was conventionally more handsome, but that she was instantly drawn to John- as everyone was.

I admit that John has a powerful presence. He's like a magnet. I got pulled in a little later but man...

Didn't Brigitte Bardot claim that "Norwegian Wood" was written about her? Wouldn't that have to imply...um, you know...
Yes Scruffie, it's not that I didn't find the story of Thelma interesting, but I didn't like the bold details too much... Of course, John had a powerful presence, not only when he was in his teens, but all his life through, I think.

I've seen some reports about Brigitte Bardot on the French tv channel and read many stories about her, but I never heard she claimed "Norwegian Wood" was written for her.... ?

The only thing I know for sure is that Brigitte wasn't too enthousiastic about her encounter with the Beatles and quoted that she "found them pretty boring", so... Furthermore, there was the language-barrier; no I don't think that there was any link between them, too different worlds... Like Wildewoman says, I think John would have told the whole world, if he had been with Brigitte...

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Old Jan 27, 2012, 10:41 AM   #17
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Brigitte Bardot? No, it was written about ME. Even though I was, like, 2 at the time.

Anyone can say anything, and they do. Don't you think if John had made it with Brigitte he would have told the whole world? At least eventually?

I looked up the Eleanor Bron thing. Found an interview with her in MOJO in the 90's. She said that all that she and John did was go out to dinner - once. She said he was very interested in older women from whom he could learn; he was very eager after knowledge. I suppose you could interpret that to mean they slept together. Perhaps she was being discreet. But I didn't get the idea that he wanted to sleep with older women because of their superior *carnal* knowledge (although no doubt that probably was part of it). I think he just wanted an interesting woman he could talk to, someone who could teach him about a lot of things, not just nookie.
Apparently Eleanor was amongst the women that John confessed to Cynthia he had slept with during their marriage. I don't know if it was a full on fling though - perhaps just a one night stand.

I remember a few years ago an old girlfriend came out of the woodwork saying that John had proposed to her numberous times.....was that Barbara?

I've always thought Thelma was very pretty. And I like her. She seems to me to have been no nonsense over the violence thing. She's on that recent doc about the day John died isn't she?
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Old Jan 27, 2012, 12:36 PM   #18
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Smile How cute

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Originally Posted by Apple Scruff View Post
I only know what I read from the biography of, I believe, one of the members. Anyway, the story went: Mama Cass had a huge, massive crush on John. She LOVED him. Like a serious fangirl. So one day they were at some gathering and John was there. Mama wanted to go up to him and say something but she was too shy, so someone mentioned to John about how much Cass wanted to meet him, and he went over there to her and asked her to dance. Well, according to what I remember she was always very insecure about her weight. But when she was dancing with John he told her, "luv, you're beautiful" and made her feel so special.

So all the members of the Mamas and the Papas instantly loved John because he was so kind and lovely to Cass.

(Funny connection that John L's son would eventually have a serious relationship with John P's daughter and their breakup would spur him to write the beautiful Friendly Fire.)

Here is Mama Cass doing "I Call Your Name" with the rest. She apparently did this just for John.
What a wonderful story; thank you so much for sharing, Scruffie

The Mamas & Papas have always been one of my top-favourite band of the 60's; of course now I love them even more

It's nice after having seen so much crap in the Beatles-confessions, to read such a positive story about John

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Old Jan 27, 2012, 12:57 PM   #19
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Default Patricia Inder

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I remember a few years ago an old girlfriend came out of the woodwork saying that John had proposed to her numberous times.....was that Barbara?
I think you're referring to Patricia Inder! I posted it a bit ago and here it is again:

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Originally Posted by Apple Scruff View Post
I found this article from 2009. The editor could have done a better job, but it's still rather interesting, though kind of LONG.

Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...ht-joking.html

The day John Lennon proposed to me (pity I thought he was joking!)
By NATALIE CLARKE


Last month, filming began on a new movie charting the years when John Lennon was an aspiring musician in Liverpool. For one woman in particular, it will be a strange experience watching Nowhere Boy.


Up to now, Patricia Inder has said little about her relationship with Lennon, so her role in his story has been forgotten - she was the stunning beauty with whom Lennon was having an affair while he seeing Cynthia Powell, who would become his first wife.


The girl who almost wed a Beatle: A teenage Patricia Inder, right, won the heart of John Lennon before he was famous.

'To those who weren't there, the Beatles are these superstars, the biggest pop group in history, but to me they were just my mates,' says Patricia. 'We'd pick up some chips from the shop, a few cigarettes and some cheap wine and go back to a friend's flat play records. We all loved rock 'n' roll.

'John and I were friends before we became lovers and he was my first. I suppose I've always loved him.

'For years I could not forget John because he was a Beatle and constantly on the TV and in newspapers. And 50 years on, here we go again.'

Patricia still has the long hair that first entranced Lennon. Asked her age, says she likes to call herself a 'rock angel' - though the fact she met Lennon in 1958, when she was 15 and he was 18, means she is now 66.

The band was then called The Silver Beetles and, as well as Lennon, Paul McCartney and George Harrison (Ringo Starr joined a couple of years later), included Stuart Sutcliffe, the bass guitarist who would die in 1962 from brain haemorrhage aged just 21.
Pat recalls that after one gig, Paul came over and chatted up the girls.
'He said: "Sorry I didn't play your request." I replied: "But I didn't make one."

He then introduced me to the band, who were sitting in the stairwell.
'They were all lovely. John had a great sense of humour and a big personality. We all became mates.'

Patricia, the daughter of a docker and his school cook wife, had a crush McCartney, but he had a girlfriend, Dot.

'We all just hung out together,' she says. 'Paul and John would come back to my mate Sue's place and listen to rock roll, and they would scribble lyrics on of paper they found.
'I'd go and see them play at the Cavern Club. There was such a buzz. I told a friend they would be bigger than Cliff Richard: what an understatement.'

Patricia and Lennon became lovers 1960, when she was 17 and he was 20.
'Until then, I hadn't really been attracted to John,' says Patricia. 'But you know what they say - it's in the kiss. After that I looked at him differently.'

It seems Lennon had planned the seduction of the virginal Patricia.
John said they were doing a gig on a boat on the Mersey and then they were having a party at Sue's flat, but I wasn't to invite anyone else. So John and I got back to the flat and no one else was there.

'I said: "Where is everyone?" He replied: "Oh, I forgot to tell you: it's a party for two, just you and me."

'He said he'd be gentle with me, which I realise sounds corny. Afterwards, we lay wrapped in each other's arms all night long.
'He was my first lover, and I fell madly in love. He was incredibly romantic. He'd tell me I had beautiful eyes and kiss my eyelids.

'He often had his guitar with him and one lovely memory I have is of John and me in bed, with me strumming and him playing the chords. John always wore his socks in bed, I don't know why. We talked about lots of things. He told me he had lost his virginity in the graveyard of Liverpool Cathedral when he was 13, with an older woman.

'I used to go to Nems's record shop in Liverpool, which was owned by Brian Epstein. I told him he should go down the Cavern to see The Beatles. One day he did, and became their manager.'

It would have been perfect, had John not had an official girlfriend, Cynthia, a middle-class girl he'd known since art school.

'I knew about her, but she didn't know about me,' says Patricia. 'John didn't often bring her to gigs, but I do remember one time he brought her to the Cavern. He came up to me and said he'd be over later after he'd put Cynthia in a taxi.

'Obviously, I wasn't happy about the situation and I'd tell John I felt I was wasting my time. His response was that one woman was never enough for a man.
'He would say he was torn between two blondes, that he loved Cynthia, but was in love with me.

'I have nothing against Cynthia. In fact, I'd love to meet her because we'd have a lot to talk about.'

Despite his two-timing, Pat soon discovered John was insecure.
'He thought he was ugly and would ask me what I saw in him. When I told him The Beatles would be big one day, he'd be surprised and say: "Do you really think so?"'

One night, after a gig, she says Lennon asked her to marry him.
'We'd been to a restaurant, just John and I, and had a bottle of wine or two and were a bit tipsy.

'We were in a narrow alleyway when John suddenly said: "Marry me Pat." I was so young and could not believe it, so I just kept saying: "Stop messing about, John." The next day it was forgotten.'

Instead, in August 1962, Lennon married Cynthia after they discovered she was pregnant with their son, Julian.

Paul McCartney took Patricia to one side during a trip to Hamburg. 'He said to me: "Pat, I think you should know: John has got married to Cynthia and she's pregnant.
'It was a terrible shock. I was devastated. I bumped into him at the Cavern and he said we could carry on as before, but I didn't want to. I was heartbroken.'

Soon afterwards, The Beatles became superstars and left Liverpool - and Pat - behind them. In 1965, she took a job as a nanny in Richmond, Surrey, and that year saw her first love for the final time after wangling a backstage pass at a gig at Hammersmith Odeon.
'My friend and I had to fight our way through the crowd to the dressing room. And there was John. He was combing his hair, but when he saw me he dropped it and said: "It's the love of my life."

'He picked me up, swung me around and kissed me. We only had a few minutes to talk because he had to go on stage.'

Pat hung out with The Rolling Stones and was a friend of the model Chrissy Shrimpton. At 24, she met Lemmy, who would later front the bands Hawkwind and Motorhead. They had a son, Paul, who is a record producer in Hollywood.
Patricia says she raised him single-handedly after Lemmy left her when their son was small.
She occasionally bumped into mutual friends of hers and Lennon.

'One or two people said he used to ask after me and said he'd love to see me again,' she says.

Patricia says she had a weird dream the night Lennon was shot in 1980.
'I woke up at about 4am, which was just after he'd been killed,' she says. 'I'd had a dream there was a big hole in the ground. Someone was saying: "Help me!" But I couldn't see them.

'The next day I heard the news. I felt shock and disbelief, it was terrible. He was such a lovely man.'

Patricia is single, but says she hasn't given up on meeting the man of her dreams. 'John spoilt it for me,' she says. 'He made me think all men were as romantic, funny and talented as him.

'John was special, he really was. Wouldn't it have been great if I had married him after he proposed? Things may have turned out very differently for both of us.'
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Old Jan 27, 2012, 01:08 PM   #20
Apple Scruff
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Default Maureen Cleave

Ok, who has the goods on her? I googled John/possible girlfriends and lovely Maureen popped up...





Here's a piece she wrote in 2005 about John:

Quote:
THE JOHN LENNON I KNEW

The man who changed the course of pop music would have been 65 this week. Maureen Cleave, who knew the Beatles at the height of their fame - and who relayed Lennon's most notorious quote to the world - recalls his chippy genius, and wonders if he would ever have been friends again with Paul McCartney
For those of us who wasted hundreds of column inches in the 1960s looking for the new Beatles and the new Rolling Stones, it's disconcerting to find them still here 40 years on. Not only here but still (most of them) on tour, cavorting about with their hair dyed in various fetching shades of cigar, from Hamlet to best Havana.
Had he been spared, what would a 65-year-old John Lennon be like? What would he make of Sir Paul and Sir Mick? Pretty short work, I should think. Would he, like Sir Cliff, be having the Prime Minister to stay? Not on your life.
He never wanted to grow old: "The only thing I'm afraid of is growing old - they grow old and they've missed it somehow," he once said, cheerfully dismissing a third of the human race. Charisma rarely survives the ageing process but, killed in the prime of life, Lennon remains a very powerful absence.
Early in l963, Gillian Reynolds tipped me off about this odd group in Liverpool who inspired an unaccountable frenzy in the young. The London Evening Standard sent me to interview them. I wondered then how Lennon, looking so like Henry VIII, could possibly become a pop idol. With a Napoleonic sense of his own destiny and an Olympian disregard for the rest, he didn't have the humility required at the time.
RELATED ARTICLES
Lennon monument unveiled 09 Oct 2010
If he hadn't liked me, I wouldn't have dared like him, but I was all right because I had a fringe and a pair of red boots, considered rather daring. The Beatles attached tremendous importance to physical appearance; the dreaded moment in any performance was when they got hot and sweaty and their fringes stuck to their foreheads, making them look slightly like Hitler.
Lennon was the most interesting of them: imperious, unpredictable, indolent, disorganised, childish, vague, arrogant and very good at answering back. Nice enough fellows, said Ted Heath, but they didn't speak the Queen's English. Lennon was on to this in a flash: "And I bet half the people who voted for him didn't speak the Queen's English either."
One could hardly believe the speed with which they became famous. In the beginning of 1963 they were the darlings of Merseyside. By October, they were famous all over Britain. A year later, soon after their appearance in the United States, they were probably the most famous people in the English-speaking world.
Theirs was the fascination of repetitive siblings, the almost sinister attraction of identical quads - how alike they were, how very different.
For two years they were out of breath. They ran to escape screaming mobs of frightening harpies. "Come on Thingy," they'd roar at me as I pelted after them. They were smuggled in and out of food lifts. Once, in America, just like the Marx Brothers, they dashed through a palm court orchestra playing to ladies eating ice cream.
It was exhilarating while the novelty lasted, though Lennon, far from being surprised and grateful, seemed rather nettled he hadn't been famous sooner. "I was always surprised I wasn't a famous painter. I used to look in the paper and half expect to see my photograph there."
He found his own story, the Beatle story, romantic; he liked to talk about the rags and the riches and, by the time they reached the top, fame had so cut them off from real life there wasn't much else to do but talk.
Lennon once said, "The trouble with reality is it leaves a lot to the imagination", and it's almost impossible to exaggerate the destructive force of modern fame. As John Updike said: "Celebrity is a mask that eats into the face."
When fantasy becomes reality, when you are rich and famous beyond bounds, when you have to come to expect instant results, how do you keep your feet on the ground? The Royal Family have training and a supportive set-up; modern celebrities are hemmed in by press officers, preventing them from saying anything of the slightest interest.
I last saw Lennon in 1966, when he had moved to an absurd stockbroker Tudor mansion in Weybridge, cut off from the rest of the world except for George and Ringo, who lived in stockbroker Tudor mansions nearby. "What day of the week is it?" he would ask with interest when you rang up.
They saw only each other, driving between houses in their Ferraris and Rolls Royces - all with black windows. ("I'm going to get a bicycle with black windows," said Paul, always better at real life than the others.)
They had swimming pools, but they rarely went outdoors or took any kind of exercise. "Sex is the only kind of exercise I bother with," said Lennon. At two in the morning they might set off for clubs in London. They didn't know day from night; as for mealtimes, they hadn't had those since the early days in Hamburg.
He had everything money could buy but not what he wanted. "Here I am in my Hansel and Gretel house, famous and loaded, and I can't go anywhere. There's something else I'm going to do, only I don't know what it is, but I do know this isn't it for me."
Prophetic words, fulfilled sooner than he might have thought. He'd told me he was reading about religion. "Christianity will go," he said. "It will vanish and shrink… We're more popular than Jesus now - I don't know which will go first, rock and roll or Christianity."
With a PR man at his side, the quote would never have got into my notebook, let alone the Oxford Dictionary of Quotations, where it ended up. As it was, the Evening Standard didn't even put it in the headline. We were used to him sounding off like that and knew it was ironically meant. But the Americans have little sense of irony, and when the article appeared in a magazine called Dateline, all hell broke loose. It was the last time the Beatles ever toured.
Shortly after this, Yoko came to fetch him away, our national treasure. Years later, I came across this in a book she published called Skywriting by Word of Mouth. In 1978 John had written: "My life with the Beatles had become a trap… I always remember to thank Jesus for the end of my touring days; if I hadn't said that the Beatles were 'bigger than Jesus' and upset the very Christian Ku Klux Klan, well, Lord, I might still be up there with all the other performing fleas! God bless America. Thank you, Jesus."
So what if he had lived? Would he have made it up with Paul? I doubt it; he didn't have a forgiving nature. When his father Fred turned up, he was shown the door. "It was the second time in my life I'd seen him - I wasn't having him in the house." Would he still be with Yoko? Definitely yes. She loved him and she had the measure of him. Would he have dyed his hair? No, too badly organised.
I once had to cut it for him myself.
Were he still here, I'd start by asking him what he thought of the National Museum of Liverpool buying his old brown suede jacket. There's a worn patch in the lining where his arm moved strumming the guitar. At the auction it was held up by a young curator in white gloves, as though it were a holy relic, and it went for 28,000.
And the second question: "What do you think of Paul's new album?"
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"Let me live in you..." ~ John Lennon

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