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Old Sep 10, 2007, 04:01 PM   #61
Hari's Chick
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Hari's Chick: I love reading what you have to say, considering you are one of the more rational on the board (i.e...you aren't hostile lol)

Anyway, to further your metaphor: say one group of people said that the Sun is the source of all coldness and darkness--that if it were not for the Sun, the world would be warm and wonderful and light. Or say another group of people say that the Sun is not one Sun, but many suns. That every day, a different Sun rises in the sky. And say a third group said that the Earth revolves around one Sun and that the Sun heats Earth and provides it with light. Is not only one of those groups right?

It is the same with religion--it is true that all of the names for the God of different religion (or the gods of some) are all different names for one God, for whatever each religion sees of God is where their idea of God comes from. However, one group says that God is really many gods with different powers, while another says that God is one omnipotent God. Some say God is the universe (or the spirit of the universe) while others say that God trancends the universe and created it. Some say that God is impersonal, or others that say God actively seeks man's harm or deception, while others say that God is a personal, loving God who created man to be with Him in perfect unity and happiness. There are many other examples of differences in what people teach about God, and they cannot all be true. God cannot be one God who is all powerful and many gods who share (even fight) over power. God cannot hate us and love us at the same time (that would look more like two forces, one good and one evil, but that is not the same as one, loving, omnipotent God either.) So, the importance is not simply the similarities, but which religion also holds all the other truths (or at the very least, the most of the other truths). Is God one God or many? Does He love us? Does he seek us to be happy or were we made as sea of slaves for him to torment?

These differences are important and it important to know that not all religions can totally true simultaneously.

Hmmmm.... interesting...

I guess the thing is, who can define how God speaks to society, cultures, or people individually? I do not believe the answer lies entirely in writen texts, rather it is revealed in (many) writen texts, but should always be varified by experiential methods. Realization of God is quite scientific. But ultimately, as you spoke of the Unmoved Mover, that same force must move each of us in our hearts, and in a way our cultures can understand.

Just as there is not one Picasso. In fact, if you compare his African influenced period to his Blue period, you may not even recognize it is the same painter.

You gave the example that some religions believe in many gods and some in one God, hence an inclusive view of the concept of "God/gods" must be tautologically incorrect... that is to assume God is never a "Trickster", as the Native Americans referred to Him/Her. Why could God not reveal Himself as many, or as one, in playful spirit. I find that even delightful?

Oh, I wanted to ask if you feel mystics from other faiths are valid representations of Christ's love and spirit? Say like Rumi?
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Old Sep 10, 2007, 10:31 PM   #62
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Hmmmm.... interesting...

I guess the thing is, who can define how God speaks to society, cultures, or people individually? I do not believe the answer lies entirely in writen texts, rather it is revealed in (many) writen texts, but should always be varified by experiential methods. Realization of God is quite scientific. But ultimately, as you spoke of the Unmoved Mover, that same force must move each of us in our hearts, and in a way our cultures can understand.

Just as there is not one Picasso. In fact, if you compare his African influenced period to his Blue period, you may not even recognize it is the same painter.

You gave the example that some religions believe in many gods and some in one God, hence an inclusive view of the concept of "God/gods" must be tautologically incorrect... that is to assume God is never a "Trickster", as the Native Americans referred to Him/Her. Why could God not reveal Himself as many, or as one, in playful spirit. I find that even delightful?

Oh, I wanted to ask if you feel mystics from other faiths are valid representations of Christ's love and spirit? Say like Rumi?
Everything good comes from God because He is the ultimate good. Likewise, anything true comes from God because He is the source of all Truth. Because He is all good and all truthful, he cannot lie. It is not a limit of God that he cannot lie, but since God is the definition of truth, the definition of a lie is something not of God. Therefore, God cannot play tricks on us such as leading us to believe that He is one while leading others to believe that He is many. Similarly--God loves us, and it would be against the nature of God's love (Deus Caritas Est=God is love, therefore against God Himself) for Him to lead us to any conclusion that is not true. Therefore, all revelation about God cannot contradict, ie God cannot reveal He is both one God and many gods (although, please don't confuse this with one God but also 3 persons...although that is a topic for another day.)

I tried to answer your question, but I think that I can't yet because I am not sure what you mean by "representations of Christ's love and spirit?" What do you mean by that?

I also know nothing of Rumi, and though I could answer the question about mystics, I could not answer about him specifically.

I am sure I'll hear from you soon--God bless
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Old Sep 11, 2007, 07:16 AM   #63
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If we were to think of God as lying to deceive, I can see how you'd feel as you do. But if we instead say God is playful by nature, and that He could conceivably be playing in dualistic terms, trying to stretch our minds above the limited concepts of duality.... what say you to that idea?

Mmmm, Rumi is awesome, but any mystic will do. :)

Would the mystic who arrives at Truth via another route than Christ be less or even invalid/deluded simply because they have not accepted Christ as Savior?

Thanks for the Blessings! :) Blessings to you too.
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Old Sep 11, 2007, 02:20 PM   #64
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This is insane. Yes seasidewoman i kind of thought you wouldn't pick up on my challenge to examine the brutal history of Xtianity, or for that matter what horrific atrocities are performed and carried out in the name of a divine supernatural entity today. You should not be afraid to take a look at these important facts, it surprises me not one bit that you attempt to run and hide behind meaningless religious scripture and faulty paradigms, and attempt to corral this discussion in other directions. This is but one reason that i feel that most if not all Xtians are hypocrites forever hiding behind religious dogma as a way of life.

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Old Sep 11, 2007, 04:00 PM   #65
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I agree with all seasidewomen has to say here- only, I can't say it quite so eloquently or patiently! It is always tough to debate stuff like this, if you're concerned about trying to encourage nonbelievers to be open to the Faith. You never know what might help, versus what might just make them get angrier and more defensive. I never know exactly how to walk that fine line. I can pray for those in need, though- hope nobody minds. :)

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Old Sep 11, 2007, 04:50 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepperlandFrog View Post
This is but one reason that i feel that most if not all Xtians are hypocrites forever hiding behind religious dogma as a way of life.


uh, thank you PepperlandFrog for exposing me for the misguided, violent,

nonthinking, blindly-following, uneducated hypocrite that i am, have always

been & plan on being until the day i die.

yes I AM AN X-MAN! er, woman.



X = Christ
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Old Sep 11, 2007, 05:15 PM   #67
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uh, thank you PepperlandFrog for exposing me for the misguided, violent, nonthinking, blindly-following, uneducated hypocrite that i am, have always been & plan on being until the day i die
You seem anxious to put words into my mouth and ascribe motivations to me. I never said you or any other Xtian was violent, just correctly pointed out that the history of Xtianity was extremely brutal. That you chose to hide from obvious fact and truth and surround yourself with convenient fiction does make you a hypocrite in my eyes, that you may or may not be uneducated is a matter of personal opinion, and is another matter altogether.
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Old Sep 11, 2007, 05:31 PM   #68
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Violence in the world has not been limited to Christian acts, you know.
There has been violence from day one in every corner of the world,
in the name of many gods, religions, etc.
It's because men have been in charge.
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Old Sep 11, 2007, 05:40 PM   #69
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Violence in the world has not been limited to Christian acts, you know.
There has been violence from day one in every corner of the world,
in the name of many gods, religions, etc.
It's because men have been in charge.
That does not take away from the fact that the history of Xtianity is unforgivingly brutal, its adherents waged countless wars in the name of Xtian beliefs. You seem quick to try to dismiss this fact, and make excuses that it is somehow acceptable, if only because of the violent nature of man. Even though i find this aspect intriguing i don't see how that is an excuse to blindly follow religious dogma, and then go onto point fingers at an invisible god, and condemn others whom plainly don't share this belief. You have even witnessed this sort of freestyle religious behavior and demeaning rhetoric here.

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Old Sep 11, 2007, 05:44 PM   #70
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That does not take away from the fact that the history of Xtianity is unforgivingly brutal, it's adherents waged countless wars in the name of Xtian beliefs. You seem quick to try to dismiss this fact, and make excuses that it is somehow acceptable, if only because of the violent nature of man. Even though i find this aspect intriguing i don't see how that is an excuse to blindly follow religious dogma, and then go onto point fingers at an invisible god, and condemn others whom plainly don't share this belief. You have even witnessed this sort of freestyle religious behavior and demeaning rhetoric here.
1. I don't blindly follow anything.

2. I don't condemn anyone.

3. There is no apostrophe in the possessive of "it."
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Old Sep 11, 2007, 06:33 PM   #71
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Is this a good time for some humour?

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Old Sep 12, 2007, 03:57 AM   #72
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Tonight I'm going to party like it's 1699.
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Old Sep 12, 2007, 12:31 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgie Girl
1. I don't blindly follow anything.

2. I don't condemn anyone.
The teen Xtians cited at the beginning of this thread do blindly follow relgious dogma, as it suits them, and they condemn The Beatles as representing everything that is wrong with pop culture. Once again you seem quick to avoid the point that the history of Xtianity is extremely brutal. That you may be a "sugar and spice and everything nice" Xtian believer does not excuse this fact.
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Old Sep 12, 2007, 12:33 PM   #74
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Tonight I'm going to party like it's 1699.
Need a date?

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Old Sep 12, 2007, 12:39 PM   #75
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Need a date?

But of course me hearty.

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Old Sep 12, 2007, 12:41 PM   #76
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But of course me hearty.

Oh, it's THAT kind of party.
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Old Sep 12, 2007, 12:45 PM   #77
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Purely Christian I assure you.
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Old Sep 12, 2007, 12:56 PM   #78
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Purely Christian I assure you.
You mean Xtian.
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Old Sep 12, 2007, 01:12 PM   #79
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Sorry, I am a little mushy minded today.
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Old Sep 12, 2007, 01:34 PM   #80
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Sorry, I am a little mushy minded today.
Or just blinded by religious dogma.
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