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Old May 06, 2003, 05:39 PM   #1
 
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Default Lennon and Production

Although it's hard to offer the least bit of criticism without being shut down by the moderators (not talking about the Lennon ones here, though), I read this very interesting piece on Lennon and production values that I think would make a good topic.

In it, it said that the lower appeal of albums like "Mind Games" and "Some Time in new York City" were less the result of bad songs than the result that Lennon did not put enough time in to make sure the production of the songs were up to par. It wasn't up until Double Fantasy that Lennon really concentrated on this part of the songs and it shows. I noticed the same thing- #9 Dream, Mind Games, Woman is the Nigger of the World, are very sloppy in sound and quality. the care is not there at all.

But when I hear "Woman" and those beautiful guitar licks in the background, it makes a world of difference. Also, "Starting Over" is such a clean, crisp sound. But I think the best is "Watching the Wheels." There are these fairground type sounds in the chorus, and they add so much to the song. To hear this attention to each song, it's like Lennon is reinvented here. His years of ignoring production values during the Beatles really hurt him in the 70's- except of course for POB, which is all about not having these production values. But when he needed them in "Mind Games," he didn't know how to do it.

Does anyone else think the lack of these production techniques tarnish his 70's work after "Imagine?"

[size="1"][ May 06, 2003, 06:40 PM: Message Edited By: walrusegg ][/size]
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Old May 13, 2003, 12:49 PM   #2
Legs
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Default Re: Lennon and Production

I don't really agree, not because I am a moderator that shoots someone down for having critique on any of the Beatles, but Phil Spector did the production on Imagine but imo didn't go overboard. There is orchestration but not so heavy.Again imo John did a good job on " Mind Games" and "Wals and Bridges", but, and here I agree, on "Sometimes and New York" the production could have done better.

For "Double Fantasy" he got some help from "Jack Douglas". John spend a lot of time in the studio, and judging by the bootlegs had a lot of fun during the "Double Fantasy" sessions.
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Old May 27, 2003, 10:40 AM   #3
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Default Re: Lennon and Production

Quote:
Originally Posted By Legs:
I don't really agree, not because I am a moderator that shoots someone down for having critique on any of the Beatles, but Phil Spector did the production on Imagine but imo didn't go overboard. There is orchestration but not so heavy.Again imo John did a good job on " Mind Games" and "Wals and Bridges", but, and here I agree, on "Sometimes and New York" the production could have done better.

For "Double Fantasy" he got some help from "Jack Douglas". John spend a lot of time in the studio, and judging by the bootlegs had a lot of fun during the "Double Fantasy" sessions.
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">not be be a picky tech writer...but i'm wondering why you put quotes around "'Jack Douglas'."

i've always preferred the earlier albums to DF and M&H because they were less produced (if i may coin a phrase). as for STINYC, the point of that album was to literally be a newservice, to get the message out as soon as possible. therefore, production would take a back seat.
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Old May 27, 2003, 12:51 PM   #4
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Default Re: Lennon and Production

Hey don't be such a "picky tech writer" [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
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Old May 27, 2003, 01:34 PM   #5
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Default Re: Lennon and Production

I don't really have problems with John's production on albums, I just find some songs (particularly some recorded during the lost weekend) are abit too busy, those saxaphones often drowning out John's voice which I really rather hear loud and clear! Thats why Plastic Ono Band is so fantastic, but then so is the more lush Imagine, I just love John"s voice and both these albums show it off!
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Old May 27, 2003, 01:45 PM   #6
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Default Re: Lennon and Production

Quote:
Originally Posted By Legs:
Hey don't be such a "picky tech writer" [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">tee hee [img]graemlins/dork1.gif[/img]

no, i just thought maybe there was something i didn't know about...like somebody else used jack's name, or there's no such person as jack.

and yes, i can't stand all the horns he used during "walls and bridges" and especially "rock n' roll". i was always confused by that cuz he always thought of himself as a guitar person, right? why would he suddenly want horns taking center stage? probably a spector idea, imo.
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