Autopen Signatures

I've been looking at Russell's interesting Beatles collection whcih you can find here :
http://mybeatlescollection.net
One of the many items on there is a signed photo sent out by the fan club which Russell describes as having 'autopen' signatures.
Can anyone give me any information about how this worked and how many of these photos exist?
I have a signed photo myself from early 67 which was probably done in this way but how can you be sure?

An autopen set of signatures is easily identifiable as only having the first names of the guys written instead of also having the surname. They were done automatically by a machine and printed off by the thousands for fan club members to make it look like the boys have personally signed it for the receiver. The machine that printed the signatures also indented them slightly so it looked and felt like a pen had pushed down onto the card.

But, as I say, they're identifiable by only having the first names, and that each autopen set is identical in size, position and style. Also, the signatures are printed ink and not ballpoint as it's made out to look like.

In Sweden they did a really good autopen set that also included the surnames. I have that in a box somewhere - will have to dig it out and scan it when I can. Can you scan your autopen set? I'd love to see it.

Well it looks like ballpoint to me.How do you tell if it isn't?
As you say the photo is indented by the pen and there are just the first names.

You can tell the difference between ballpoint and autopen because autopen is very consistant with no alterations in pressure, colour etc etc. Most ballpoint pen autographs are grazy where the pen has been rough against the paper causing a kind of lined effect on the penmark.

THIS ballpopint autograph of George's from 1963 is a good example of this, and you can see where the pen has left faint marks or has rubbed against the backing down the H or Harrison.

Originally Posted by Harbidge

An autopen set of signatures is easily identifiable as only having the first names of the guys written instead of also having the surname. They were done automatically by a machine and printed off by the thousands for fan club members to make it look like the boys have personally signed it for the receiver. The machine that printed the signatures also indented them slightly so it looked and felt like a pen had pushed down onto the card.

But, as I say, they're identifiable by only having the first names, and that each autopen set is identical in size, position and style. Also, the signatures are printed ink and not ballpoint as it's made out to look like.

In Sweden they did a really good autopen set that also included the surnames. I have that in a box somewhere - will have to dig it out and scan it when I can. Can you scan your autopen set? I'd love to see it.

It's very impressive that you know this stuff-- where did you learn about it?

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/6776/img116kx7.jpg

Originally Posted by feelfab

It's very impressive that you know this stuff-- where did you learn about it?

Years and years of research and book reading. :-)

Yup, they're typical American autopen signatures. They look like they were taken from an authentic set - they look great! Paul's signature looks to be from the early 60's (63ish at a guess) because of how the head of the P is detatched. Later on Paul did a downward stroke, then back up and around to complete the P then back down to start the A without taking pen off paper.

But as I said, decent set! I can see why people have been fooled in the past by them.

I'll dig out my Swedish set and put them up here when I get time. :-)

Oh yes they certainly are great!

First question - What do you mean by an 'authentic set'?
Second question- Why typical American?
Third question- - How did the machine work? Did it do one signature at a time or all four at once?

By authentic set, I mean an authentic set of autographs, ones that were done personally by the group. The signatures on the autopen set look like they've been taken from a real set because that's how the real signatures should look like. But yours are definitely autopen - I've seen numerous identical copies (with some being incorrectly sold as genuine) during my time.

They're typical American because the US autopen sets only featured the first name The two US autopen sets I've seen (both fan club items) were the one you have and the one using the same photo that appears on the Lady Madonna 45 picture sleeve. I'm sure an autopen set in the UK from 1963 had full names as well as the Swedish autopen set I have in my collection.

As for the machine, I'm not sure how they operated. One person told me that the original signatures that were to be copied were traced over by hand with the machine, copying the image, and then it was set to work redoing the set programmed into it onto the thousands of cards put into it. Another idea is that the signatures were made into a plate which stamped down onto the pre-printed card to give the indented feel.

But the machinery is speculation at the moment. I'm sure there's something out there that can give the correct info.

Ah, there's a wikipedia article about autopens:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopen

Originally Posted by Harbidge

The signatures on the autopen set look like they've been taken from a real set because that's how the real signatures should look like. But yours are definitely autopen - I've seen numerous identical copies during my time.

They're typical American because the US autopen sets only featured the first name.

As for the machine, I'm not sure how they operated. One person told me that the original signatures that were to be copied were traced over by hand with the machine, copying the image, and then it was set to work redoing the set programmed into it onto the thousands of cards put into it.

Thanks for your detailed answer.
I've looked at wikipedia and a site that gives info on astronaut autopen signatures.All I can say is that the ones I have are well done in that there are no wobbles, no dots at beginning or end of words and the signatures are well placed concerning the background.I've seen the Lady Madonna ones you mention and there's no comparison especially concerning the placing.
As for the machine, the photos indicate either single or mutiple procedures, not by stamping but by increasing the number of mechanical arms and pens.
I would guess that the fan club invested in a system that could do the four signatures at one go.This is substantiated by the fact that the pen colours are not the same.Paul and John are in black, George and Ringo in blue (but not the same blue).I've also seen another example of my photo with the same signatures but all slightly higher on the photo.(There's also a wobble on the P of Paul which I don't have).This other photo also has the same smudging on Ringo which indicates different ink from the other pens where there is no smudging at all.
Lastly, I still don't understand why you say these are specifically American.My photo was sent out by the UK fan club.
I'm looking forward to seeing your Swedish autopens and reading your comments.

Hi everybody just looking at the forum and was wondering if you could help me you see I have a signed beatle pic from the 1969 UK beatles fan club. Are they the real deal???? Ill post a pic if needed and there on a photo like a rehearsal photo and the pressure seems to me like its changing and there is a slight gap in the bottom of Georges first 'G'...
ThAnK yOu,
ShAy.