John wanted gay relationship with Paul?!

Happy Birthday fella....ignore 'em for they know not of what they speak.

Some peoples imaginations are getting away with them. What's next is someone going to change the lyrics to Imagine to fit with this topic? Of course I'm only playing around with that one, imagine, imaginations.

Can't you just feel the lust radiating off of John?

They do make a cute couple

i think its ridiculous.

so within a week i hear he wants to get with his mother and now paul?? wow... people have nothing better to do.

its not the first time ive heard this gay rumor. people tried to hint about him and eppy.

Wow. I've seen this topic for weeks now but have shyed away from it because I didnt want to know. I dont think he ever did think of Paul that way.

Originally Posted by beatlemom82

i think its ridiculous.

so within a week i hear he wants to get with his mother and now paul?? wow... people have nothing better to do.

its not the first time ive heard this gay rumor. people tried to hint about him and eppy.

I agree that it's ridiculous that people made up such rumors about John.

Just like the rumor about Brian and him when he went on that little vacation with him back in the Beatle days.

I can't recall where they went, but as far as I remember from reading, nothing happened.

I know Brain was gay, but John, never! Not even Bi.

It's hard to determine if John REALLY wanted this sort of relationship with anyone or even just to experiment. But based on the signals he has given us I would have to go with no.

Originally Posted by Kelli

As for the thing about John and his mom, I just don't know. If he indeed had those thoughts, I'm likely to believe it was because of some psychological thing about how she left him and stuff. John, as we all know, was very complicated!

There's my sixpence.
Each.
In advance.

Complicated?? C'mon! I am a Beatles fan as anyone in seven states and I think it is time we all admitted openly that John was........f^cked up in the head! F#cked up like a Lab Rat. Serious mental issues plagued our Mr. Lennon. May he rest in peace. Love the man and his music but he was clearly insane.
Wp

There is something about the "friends of our youth" don't you think? I mean the people that grew up with us, and know our families, etc. It does not seem so strange to me that there was a certain...clinging that John may have done with Paul, I mean look at how he was with Yoko, she herself said it could be overwhelming, that he got out of the boat "The Beatles" - where that need could be spread between three people and into the boat called "Yoko" where she was the only one he would cling to. So, it may not have been a romantic love like we think about, but more of a... need almost for John.
Yes, yes, I have John on the psychiatrists couch! :)

Originally Posted by Georgie Girl

They certainly are!

Sound like slashy fan fiction.

I agree with you Georgie Girl. Thanks for the nice message.

I'm a little surprised - well, shocked, actually - at the immediate knee-jerk negative reaction to the idea that John may have had some bisexual leanings. Why is this a bad thing? Why is it considered some outrageous aspersion on his character? And why, if it is true, wouldn't it be perfectly understandable that he would have those feelings toward Paul, with whom he was so intimate for so long in every other way imaginable? John said it himself: "Paul and I know each other on a lot of different levels that very few people know about." (In the same interview [Playboy], John also wondered why more people didn't question what he called the "John and Paul business", i.e. "Why didn't they ever say, 'How come those guys don't split up? I mean, what's going on backstage? What is this Paul and John business? How can they be together so long?'")

And as loathe as I am to defend Philip Norman for any reason whatsoever, he didn't simply pull this out of his butt. This is what Yoko told him. From Norman: "...Indeed, John's wounded anger was more that of an ex-spouse than ex-colleague, reinforcing a suspicion already in Yoko's mind that his feelings for Paul had been far more intense than the world at large ever guessed. From chance remarks he had made, she gathered there had even been a moment where - on the principle that bohemians should try everything - he had contemplated an affair with Paul, but had been deterred by Paul's immovable heterosexuality."

I mean, this is Yoko. The woman who has been doing her best to downplay Paul's importance in John's life and John's head and John's heart for thirty years. Certainly she wouldn't lie about this, nor, I expect, would she even want to believe it...but believe it she apparently does.

(And in all fairness to Yoko, what sort of "chance remarks" could your husband be making that would lead you to the conclusion that he wanted to sleep with his BFF? Some pretty pointed ones, I imagine! )

Originally Posted by PaulisMine

There is something about the "friends of our youth" don't you think? I mean the people that grew up with us, and know our families, etc. It does not seem so strange to me that there was a certain...clinging that John may have done with Paul, I mean look at how he was with Yoko, she herself said it could be overwhelming, that he got out of the boat "The Beatles" - where that need could be spread between three people and into the boat called "Yoko" where she was the only one he would cling to. So, it may not have been a romantic love like we think about, but more of a... need almost for John.
Yes, yes, I have John on the psychiatrists couch! :)

You have some very good points, and I agree with alot of them.

John certainly did love Paul, but that doesn't have to mean he loved him in a romantic way! The simple fact that they wrote music together would mean they had to have had a close bond, because when you create/write anything your revealing a deep part of yourself, but again none of this has to mean sexual or romantic feelings. Just an incredibly strong brotherly, connection.


However, as HB_princess says above, the negative reaction is very disturbing. Because IF there is any truth to what Norman says about John's supposed sexual feelings for Paul, (and thats a BIG if) there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

And as Beatle fans/beatle maniacs, you'd think we'd all here have a better grasp on the fact that love, in whatever form, race, or gender it may take on, is one of the most beautiful things in the world.

I mean everyone at some point in their life wonders what it would be like to be with their best friend? And when u spend a lot of time with someone you wonder about things, I'm not saying he The 60's were a time of sex and freedom so who knows, its his life!

Originally Posted by peacewithlennon

I mean everyone at some point in their life wonders what it would be like to be with their best friend?

Not with me, man. I've had experiences where a few of my male friends would all of a sudden want what's called "friendship with benefits". That, more often than not, killed those friendships--simply out of sheer embarrassment, leaving me feeling too squeemish to be around them.

Originally Posted by Magill

Not with me, man. I've had experiences where a few of my male friends would all of a sudden want what's called "friendship with benefits". That, more often than not, killed those friendships--simply out of sheer embarrassment, leaving me feeling too squeemish to be around them.

Ok well maybe not everyone, but your post proved that most people have that though sometime in their lives.

And I love how people seem to think that there is something inherently wrong with John having done these things. I mean, that must be the underlying reason, even subconsciously, or we wouldn't hear about it every time someone alleges John wasn't above love of the same sex. Who gives a shit who he wanted to bugger, to put it bluntly? The point is the music, and if you can't like someone's music because of what they might have gotten down to, that's pretty pathetic if you ask me.

Originally Posted by glennan

And I love how people seem to think that there is something inherently wrong with John having done these things. I mean, that must be the underlying reason, even subconsciously, or we wouldn't hear about it every time someone alleges John wasn't above love of the same sex. Who gives a shit who he wanted to bugger, to put it bluntly? The point is the music, and if you can't like someone's music because of what they might have gotten down to, that's pretty pathetic if you ask me.

I AGESS 100%. Just like Marilyn Monroe, people were always in her personal life calling her a slut, thats her personal life! I mean she died and now she is gone and those same people are probably saying how wonderful she was now. The fact is that NOBODY is perfect, and who says that liking the same sex makes you a horrible person? So what who cares it was John's life, he was an amazing person who had amazing talents that changed the world forever with his music, why should it matter if he wanted to have sex with Paul or any man for that matter, love is love, and sex is sex!

I've read the book, and liked it very much. When read in context, the claims aren't as salacious as they seem in the articles quoted herein. Unlike Goldman, Norman did not write about these things to trash Lennon or to be provoking and vulgar, but to explore the inner life of his subject.

I think human sexuality and emotions are incredibly complex things--I believe if we're all honest with ourselves we have thoughts regarding these matters that might surprise and even shock ourselves when they briefly cross our minds, not to mention how strange they might sound to to others if we copped to them! It doesn't mean we act on them. And I think we can all agree that John pretty much blurted out anything that popped into his head and devil take the hindmost.

As for John's Mother thing--heck, why is this even shocking? Oedipal complex, anyone? Freud wrote about this kind of stuff a hundred years ago.

And really, in the end, it doesn't matter.

Philip Norman wrote a long piece in a Sunday newspaper maybe 8 years ago where he detailled the men who had 'come on to him' (Norman) during his life, including a delivery man who had just dropped his pants! Now I'm no psychologist but it does seem Norman is kind of fixated with 'gayness' even though he himself claims to be 100 per cent straight. Maybe he's just looking for any inference of it anywhere; it certainly seems to loom large in his life. I met him briefly around the time of SHOUT (1980?) and was struck by his air of oily superiority. He was certainly no Adonis, even then.

Sorry, but NO comments!