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Old Mar 20, 2003, 09:39 AM   #21
angelgodiva
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

To quote John, "Fighting for peace is like f***ing for virginity". I agree with this sentiment completely and have been traveling around with a group of other Old Hippies to sing "Eve of Destruction" and "Give Peace A Chance" in the surrounding towns. We were arrested one night for civil disorder (sitting on the ground singing, no more).
Of course, we will be doing it again tonight.
Killing people is wrong no matter what rationale you use to try to justify it. We have to protest this, and we will continue to do so, just as we did back in the late 60s and early 70s as well as in 1991.

[size="1"][ Mar 20, 2003, 10:44 AM: Message Edited By: angelgodiva ][/size]
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Old Mar 20, 2003, 10:52 AM   #22
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

Okay, my two cents:

I am saddened that we as a nation, and indeed as a planet, have come to this situation. I side with the European Union, and say it's too bad that a peaceful solution could not be reached. I believe this can be pinned on both Mr. Bush and Mr. Hussein.

BUT ...

Now that this has started, I back the troops 100% and pray they complete their mission as swiftly, cleanly, and effectively as possible. Saddam is a man who cannot be, nor do I believe SHOULD be, negotiated with (honestly, what would you give Saddam in exchange for disarmament? I can think of something, but not something I can say in public! [img]graemlins/images/icons/mad.gif[/img] )

I'm sorry the situation has gotten this far, but now that it has, let's hope it ends with the fall of Saddam and his regime. Sometimes, a little war is necessary for a lot of peace.

[size="1"][ Mar 20, 2003, 11:53 AM: Message Edited By: MonaMe577 ][/size]
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Old Mar 20, 2003, 12:54 PM   #23
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

Quote:
In this case the answer would have been to let the inspectors search for more weapons.
They havenīt finished their work yet.
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">I don't think this would have accomplished anything, other than give Hussein time to import/build new weaponry out of the inspectors' sight, and reinforce in his mind and those of the Iraqis that the UN would do all in it's power - even up to issuing yet another resolution!!! - to make him comply with UN sanctions they've failed to enforce for these past 12 years.

Indeed, Hussein has "cooperated" - he had literally thousands of pages sent to the UN Security Council, detailing their voluntary destruction of all kinds of weaponry.

Except the VX. Except the anthrax. Except the missiles they're launching now.

However, this man and his regime, who've lied and kept turmoil and human atrocities both very, very active in the Middle East despite multiple UN sanctions for at least the last decade, did detail specific ground tests to the UN inspectors that would tell them that these biological/chemical weapons had been destroyed.

Except there's no way to test out his detailed instructions, is there, but by performing the same type of destruction on one's own VX or anthrax supply, burying it in the ground, and waiting for just the right amount of time to elapse. Did I say "test out"?? Yes, I did - his methods of destroying these toxins are unknown to the general public, although presumably detailed in the report of 8 December 2003 to the UN.

And in the intervening years since Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, countries around the world have worried about how to safely destroy their own stockpiles of VX, with the result that there is not one method deemed totally fool-proof, nor is there one deemed perfectly safe. And the reason they have so deemed this is that the technology to determine the presence of either agent is available.

Technology the UN inspectors certainly have access to - so why is it necessary for Hussein to have instructions on how to detect this crap? And who says that the inspectors would be lead to the exact places where this supposed destruction took place?

There are none. If we were dealing with an honourable man, leading a stable government in the full confidence of its country's people, perhaps we could "take his word for it". But we are not. We are dealing with a man who is so untrustworthy that he has repeatedly defied UN sanctions. Not only did he not use his time over the past 12 years to dispose of the weaponry in his arsenal that was present and accounted for at that time, but he has further expanded this stockpile to the point where absolutely no one can say definitively how much of what is where in Iraq.

As a matter of fact, the UN has repeatedly called upon its Member States to take whatsoever action was deemed necessary by them to return the area to peace, to protect the borders of the other states against specifically Iraq, and to enforce the current sanction and previous sanctions. Yes, the resolutions specifically call upon the Member States to do all in their power to uphold and implement those sanctions, to ensure the return to international peace and international security.

A known collector/builder of weapons of mass destruction continues to do the very things that brought that regime under sanctions to begin with, with no serious reprisals by the UN other than the issuance of yet another resolution, and another, and another...

Bull mularkey. It is my belief that the UN has never seriously considered using force of any kind towards Iraq, and specifically Hussein, and that he knows it.

And after the debacle of the past several months of concomitant posturing on both sides regarding this very real threat to the entire world, I don't think I'm the only person who has lost all trust in the UN to follow through on any of it's duties.
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Old Mar 20, 2003, 02:19 PM   #24
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

Quote:
Originally Posted By Flying:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Originally Posted By angelgodiva:
To quote John, "Fighting for peace is like f***ing for virginity".
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">[img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] *This is so true!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">That is one of the most ridiculous things that has been attached to this conflict.
I'm embarrassed that a musical genius like John has said something as absurd as that.

[size="1"][ Mar 20, 2003, 07:25 PM: Message Edited By: jtal909 ][/size]
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Old Mar 20, 2003, 03:21 PM   #25
Tim
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

Quote:
Originally Posted By Rocky Rabbit:
Maybe I misunderstand but are you calling the government of Iraq stable!!!!
A stable government does not take rights away from its people!
It does not kill people for talking out of line!
I must say Tim I find some of your opinions very disturbing.
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">With the USA Patriotic Act and the Department of Homeland Security we have WILLINGLY surrendered a lot of Freedom and privacy to the Government.
They now:
* Have the right to read EVERY E-mail you send or receive;
* Stores are required report credit card transactions on any item that seems to the store or DHS odd or subversive (e.g. if I buy a book on Middle East History with a credit ard,the clerk is required to inform DHS)
* Libraries are required to report when people of Asain descent uses their computers and what sites they looked at,a s well as all views of pages concerning topics such as the Middle East, Islam,etc.
* Schools are required to report to DHS what they consider 'suspicious' abscences
* Utility Meter Readers are now deputized by Homeland Security

and yet all of this restriction is to 'protect my freedom'....Orwellian, I must forfeit freedom to have freedom.
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Old Mar 20, 2003, 03:22 PM   #26
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

Quote:
Originally Posted By jtal909:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Originally Posted By Flying:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Originally Posted By angelgodiva:
To quote John, "Fighting for peace is like f***ing for virginity".
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">[img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] *This is so true!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">That is one of the most rediculous things that has been attached to this conflict.
I'm embarrassed that a musical genius like John has said something as absurd as that.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">I must admit, this statement is a little ridiculous. There is a difference between the two. Once you f$#%, you can never be a virgin again. Is John trying to tell us that once you fight, you can never be peaceful again? Sorry, this just doesn't fly with me.
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Old Mar 20, 2003, 03:23 PM   #27
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

Okay, I'm not meaning to throw names around or anything, and being an uniformed 12 year old what could I know anyways? But here's what I have to say:
(Nothing against anyone here at all!) Harbridge stated that U.N. support was not important as Jacque Chirac and Putin would veto anything that came their way, regardless of evidence.

A refreshing new take:
Bush would (and has) ignored the U.N. with everything that has came his way, regardless of evidence. He was planning on going to war no matter what, just as they were planning on vetoing no matter what. Just a thought.

GIVE PEACE A CHANCE!!!
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Old Mar 20, 2003, 07:22 PM   #28
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

[quote]Originally Posted By MonaMe577:
Quote:
I must admit, this statement is a little ridiculous. There is a difference between the two. Once you f$#%, you can never be a virgin again. Is John trying to tell us that once you fight, you can never be peaceful again? Sorry, this just doesn't fly with me.
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">I think what he meant was that once you use war as a means for peace, you can never go back to using a peaceful way of solving a conflict because you'll think that war would be the only way to solve it.

[img]graemlins/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]
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Old Mar 20, 2003, 07:42 PM   #29
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

Quote:
Originally Posted By angelgodiva:
To quote John, "Fighting for peace is like f***ing for virginity". I agree with this sentiment completely and have been traveling around with a group of other Old Hippies to sing "Eve of Destruction" and "Give Peace A Chance" in the surrounding towns. We were arrested one night for civil disorder (sitting on the ground singing, no more).
Of course, we will be doing it again tonight.
Killing people is wrong no matter what rationale you use to try to justify it. We have to protest this, and we will continue to do so, just as we did back in the late 60s and early 70s as well as in 1991.
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Go Angel! [img]graemlins/flower2.gif[/img] We had some protesters by the library today in little ol' Mt. Pleasant(which is like nonexistant-ville). I was surprised to see about 30-40 people out with signs etc. I would have loved to have been there blasting out Eve of Destruction on a boombox or something. Dang school, lol.

As for my opinion, I do not think bush is a bad pres. or anything, and I understand that this matter needs to be dealt with, but I don't agree with this war.
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Old Mar 20, 2003, 08:23 PM   #30
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

Quote:
Originally Posted By Rellevart:
[QB]it kind of bugs me when people walk around saying "War is not the answer" and "Give Peace A Chance" and other slogans like that. Slogans are all nice and fine, but it's just not that simple. Just people saying "Give Peace a Chance" isn't going to CHANGE anything and if someone says war is not the answer, then I'd like to know what that person thinks IS the answer.QB]
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Love is the answer, peace is the answer, diplomacy is the answer, etc.

Slogans work for advertisers, and so why is it that they can't work for us?
If there was something more that I could do, I would, but I can't, and it's better than sitting around on my arse criticising the people who ARE trying to help.

Angel, I LOVE that quote! I hadn't heard it before, it's so true.

PEACE AND LOVE,
~Angela~
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Old Mar 20, 2003, 09:04 PM   #31
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

It seems very quiet from Iraq's side sofar, which I find is a lot of food for thought.
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Old Mar 20, 2003, 09:27 PM   #32
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

[quote]Originally Posted By shyGirl:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Originally Posted By MonaMe577:
Quote:
I must admit, this statement is a little ridiculous. There is a difference between the two. Once you f$#%, you can never be a virgin again. Is John trying to tell us that once you fight, you can never be peaceful again? Sorry, this just doesn't fly with me.
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">I think what he meant was that once you use war as a means for peace, you can never go back to using a peaceful way of solving a conflict because you'll think that war would be the only way to solve it.

[img]graemlins/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Okay, this makes a little more sense. But I still don't agree with it. There are situations to be dealt with through war, and those to be dealt with through peace. Hopefully, the peaceful situations are more numerous, and hopefully, we as a society are smart enough to tell the difference.
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Old Mar 20, 2003, 11:06 PM   #33
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

Quote:
Originally Posted By MonaMe577:
Sometimes, a little war is necessary for a lot of peace.
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">A little war?!?! Killing people just "a little"!?!?! How does "a little war" work?!?
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Old Mar 20, 2003, 11:10 PM   #34
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

Quote:
Originally Posted By angelgodiva:
To quote John, "Fighting for peace is like f***ing for virginity".
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">[img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] *This is so true!
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Old Mar 20, 2003, 11:11 PM   #35
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

Quote:
Originally Posted By Rellevart:

That said, it kind of bugs me when people walk around saying "War is not the answer" and "Give Peace A Chance" and other slogans like that. Slogans are all nice and fine, but it's just not that simple. Just people saying "Give Peace a Chance" isn't going to CHANGE anything and if someone says war is not the answer, then I'd like to know what that person thinks IS the answer.
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">In this case the answer would have been to let the inspectors search for more weapons.
They havenīt finished their work yet.
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Old Mar 20, 2003, 11:12 PM   #36
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

I'm not 100% to the right or 100% to the left either. I wish it didn't have to come to a war, but if everything else has been tried (peacefully) then I guess it has to be this way. I just hope it can be over fast and not large losses of life or any (if that's possible). All this is very scary. My one teacher in college told me once that "all wars end in funerals." I don't like this at all, but I hope things can be resolved soon before it gets worse.
-Kristi
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Old Mar 20, 2003, 11:55 PM   #37
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

No one wanted this war but Saddam doesn't want to play by the rules so we have no choice but to use force. War sucks but sometimes it is necessary.
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Old Mar 21, 2003, 01:10 AM   #38
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

Quote:
Originally Posted By jtal909:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Originally Posted By Flying:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Originally Posted By angelgodiva:
To quote John, "Fighting for peace is like f***ing for virginity".
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">[img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] *This is so true!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">That is one of the most ridiculous things that has been attached to this conflict.
I'm embarrassed that a musical genius like John has said something as absurd as that.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">This isn't that absurd. To fight for peace is absoulutely contradictory. War for peace?!?! It's the same as you f*** for virginity. It doesn't lead to the aim. That will get us nowhere. If you want peace, so don't fight at all! If you want you want virginity, so don't f***! . I don't think it is that ridicelous.

This is how I see John statement.
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Old Mar 21, 2003, 03:53 AM   #39
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

Quote:
Originally Posted By jtal909:
That is one of the most ridiculous things that has been attached to this conflict.
I'm embarrassed that a musical genius like John has said something as absurd as that.
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">You know, jt, when I first read it, I thought the same thing; I thought of "fighting for peace" in the sense of "working towards peace", and then it seemed TOTALLY ridiculous. Then I thought about it again and figured "fighting for peace" may have been intended to mean "going to war for peace", which makes a LITTLE more sense.
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Old Mar 21, 2003, 03:59 AM   #40
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

Quote:
Originally Posted By MissusLennon:
Love is the answer, peace is the answer, diplomacy is the answer, etc.

<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">I'm with you on the diplomacy, MissusL, but love and peace aren't the answer. They're the desired outcome, sure, but they're not the answer. You can walk around saying "love each other" and flashing peace signs all you want, but, unfortunately, that's probably not going to change anybody's mind or convert anybody to your way of thinking. But if it makes you feel better and makes you feel like you're doing something or showing support for your cause, then more power to you!

And there are other things you can do. Write letters, vote for people whose opinions agree with yours, become better informed (which I know I should do too!), volunteer, etc.
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