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Old Jul 19, 2012, 05:50 AM   #121
misfittoy
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Elvis didn't die of fatness. He was on all sorts of pills and had been for years. plus, John's photo session the day before he died showed a man very very thin especially the frontal shot where he's on top
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 06:08 AM   #122
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Elvis didn't die of fatness. He was on all sorts of pills and had been for years.
Elvis got overweighted because he ate a great amount AND because of his pills abuse, that's a fact.

The fatness may have been a secondary effect to his pill-addiction but nevertheless contributed to his sudden death. I mean, Elvis suffered from high blood pressure and liver damage; this doesn't only comes from taking pills and drugs.

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Old Jul 19, 2012, 06:16 AM   #123
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i thought Elvis died of a heart attack?
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 06:30 AM   #124
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i thought Elvis died of a heart attack?
He did. It was most probably brought on by his massive use of prescription medications.
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 06:33 AM   #125
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i thought Elvis died of a heart attack?
I thought he choked on a ham sandwich. Oh wait, maybe that was someone else. I get my fat rock stars confused.
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 06:37 AM   #126
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the ham sandwich was mama cass from the mama's and the papa's
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 05:08 PM   #127
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LIver damage comes from ingesting substances of all types.

and overweight does not equal unhealthy. I'm overweight and I'm the only member of my family who does not suffer from high blood pressure, diabetes or thyroid disorder. (I also don't have any gray hair).

I'm healthier then someone who starves themselves living on uppers and little nutrition to gain a flat stomach that women weren't biologically designed to have. or those chicks that are crack-whore thin. but you can't convince our plastic-barbie-doll-fashion-industry-fed culture these things. They think anorexic is healthier.
and that brings us back to John's eating disorder...
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 07:56 PM   #128
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the ham sandwich was mama cass from the mama's and the papa's
Just so you know... the ham sandwich is an urban legend. She actually died in her sleep. And she was a major John fan.
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 10:17 PM   #129
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Thank you for myth-busting that ham sandwich story about poor Cass.
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Old Jul 25, 2012, 08:47 PM   #130
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Just doin' my job, ma'am... trying to sort a bit of truth from all the bull$&!t.
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Old Jul 29, 2012, 05:54 PM   #131
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A discussion in the George forum reminded me of something that's always troubled me, in light of what happened shortly after...

In his Playboy interview, John seems to be irritated that in George's book I Me Mine, George mentions "every two-bit sax player" he's ever played with, but repeatedly asserts that he (John) is not mentioned even once. This is, in fact, untrue; John is mentioned several times throughout the book. His frustration gets to the point where even Yoko comes to George's defense.

Now, I'm pretty sure that in a subsequent interview, John says that George must have seen the Playboy interview because he left him a message apologizing about it. I can't find this comment unfortunately but I seem to recall that John had not, at the time at least, responded, and he sort of brushed off George's effort to make things right. Given the timing, it's very likely that this was the last communication between the two (and an indirect one at that).

So I guess my question here is...first off, do we know if this was ever resolved? But to dig a little deeper, what exactly was John looking for in I Me Mine? How much ink would George have merited in John's circa-1980 memoirs? Largely because of the age difference, John always seemed to reduce George to a lower tier, and it's well-documented that he skipped out on the recording sessions of several George compositions. And I can't help but think that John resented his 'disciple' having success without John being there to guide him.

Now, that's not denying that John was complimentary of some of George's songs, and he did enlist him to play on Imagine (although I think this was intended primarily as an extra dig at Paul). And certainly their relationship never seemed to hit the valleys that John and Paul's did. But why was John so hesitant to look at George as an equal?
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Old Jul 29, 2012, 08:59 PM   #132
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Wow, trying to understand the Lennon mind sure is a sisyphean task, but what the hey...

First off, to answer your question, I don't know if it was ever resolved. I don't recall if I've ever read or heard John speaking about George's supposed apology, but I've heard people say that George supposedly left him a message at the Dakota. Did George say it in an interview?

What was John expecting from I, Me, Mine? Who the hell knows for sure? It was mostly ego-driven, I'd bet. I think that John just had this image of George as the younger disciple who followed him around as a teenager and who asked him for help when he first started writing songs, and John couldn't shake that image. I'm the youngest in my family, so I know first-hand how older siblings often have difficulty thinking of their younger sibs as fully grown up.

I do think John was a bit unreasonable in his expectation, of course, but at the same time, he was John... very sensitive and always speaking what was on his mind. At the same time, however, I kind of understand why he maybe expected more credit... George and he did have an interesting relationship. They were sort of allies within the group in many ways, because they were the two who were the most cynical about the more show bizzy aspects of being Beatles. Plus, George once said that he felt more connected to John because they first took acid together and they both were very into meditation. I have this theory that John never felt 100% comfortable around Paul because their personalities were so different, but that he could be more himself around George... so maybe that explains his emotional reaction.

I don't doubt that John loved George very much. I was listening to part of the Wenner interview a little bit ago and I remember a part where Yoko was criticizing George's belief in God... well, John would have none of it. He quickly cut her off and was very protective of George.

I think this popular meme of "John didn't respect George in the waning days of the Beatles" is really overly simplistic because their relationship was very complicated and nuanced. But I think you're right that John didn't think of George as an equal... and I think it mostly has to do with the younger brother thing... and, I would assume, a bit of the competitive thing... plus, what I said in the George forum about John's harboring resentment about some comments George made about Yoko.

Maybe if John had lived to be a cranky old man he would've given George more of his due. On second thought, not maybe. I'm pretty sure he would have.
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