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Old Aug 09, 2007, 10:26 AM   #61
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I am glad to see this getting discussion, even if I disagree with the content. I think the topic is worthy of discussion.


Yes, we know George was not a Saint... however it is also a question of ethics. George wrote "I, Me, Mine" and never mentioned details of any sort of the private things within their marriage to the general public. That was George being a gentleman. I only wish Pattie showed as much respect.

Yes, George was a public figure, though a reluctant one. That does not give Pattie the right to spill his life to the world as if it is owed. For example... I am reading a book called "Eat, Love, Pray" currently. It is about one woman's travels through Italy, India, and Indonesia in search of deep meaning in life. The book begins with her expressing deep feelings about the state of her marriage. That prompts her to leave the marriage, seek divorce, and set out on her personal journey. She explains her feelings about her marriage.... how she felt alone, etc. etc... yet she says she will give no details because that is not a spiritual thing to do. That what happened between her and her husband was a catalyst and further information is Gossip....

You know... Devils Radio...

I cannot think of one spiritual path which would condone her behavior, but correct me if I am wrong. George did not smear her... so she certainly has nothing fm his side to "correct publically". He even took the 'blame' for their not having children, telling others it was his biological issue which made it so they could not. Again, George "spared" Pattie.

Now, EC's biographer has said his book up to this point has been very respectful of Pattie. But Pattie felt she needed to "get there first" and smear EC. She has also placed him in a bad position, not that I particularly care about him. I dislike him as a person basically. Nonetheless, it seems like an ugly show of character on Pattie's part. She is a shallow woman, incapable of loyalty. Loyalty of character is more important than the loyalties which were broken by all of them in the Swinging Sixties. Those were loyalties of s physical sort. Loyalties of an emotional/spiritual sort should not be broken publically. If she needed to vent, get a confidant.

As I say, that is opinion... and I have so many on this... enough to write my own book... But I hope everyone feels free to express other, conflicting opinions. Discussion is good.
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Old Aug 09, 2007, 10:36 AM   #62
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Oh one more thought... though George was no saint 'back when'... in the Vaisnava faith, he is believed to be a Pure Soul now, as he passed over chanting the Holy Names. As such, we believe he went straight to Krishna... into Krishna's highest abode. Devotees can even have George's photo, because of this, next to Prabhupada, Chaitania, and Krishna on their home alters. He is considered Pure.

As such, what Pattie does ... is considered a grave offense against God.

George asked Prabhupada to shave up and join ISKCON. Prabhupada said he was reaching more people for Krishna in the work he was doing with his music. George's musical prayers are played every morning at every ISKCON temple at 4:30 am... the first prayer offered to Krishna every single day worldwide. When one devotee asked Prabhupada "how can this be, he never even shaved up adn was initiated..." Prabupada said,"It is because George is more than a devotee." That is a HUGE statement.

When George passed their was a huge spiritual effect on the planet. I saw it. Many devotees renewed their commitments to chanting, and devotional service. Many his age suddenly ...not only mourned George, the Beatle, but mourned george the Godbrother. It revived their spirit and resolve to reach Krishna. George's passing had a beautiful spiritual effect on the planet. SO much love poured out and what was important- finding God/Spirit/Krishna/Jesus was talked about a great great deal.

Now...Pattie appears to me like a shallow groupie...excuse me it is how I feel... wanting to discuss how he was in bed. She attempts to reduce him to mundane levels. She is like a serpant in my eyes.

I would like to forgive her. Another reason I hope some other views can sofen my heart. But I am just very angry with Pattie.
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Old Aug 09, 2007, 10:48 AM   #63
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I'm not sure if it is something I would read or not at this point. In a way, I like to read all sorts of points of view on the people I admire, both positive and negative, to make them more "real people" to me, more dimensional, more interesting. Yet, if something is obviously bashing, it angers me and I don't enjoy reading it. I'm not quite sure which side of the line it looks like this book will lie on.

Different people are comfortable with different levels of exposing their personal lives to the public and that's fine. It gets complicated when you're exposing your personal life in conjunction with another person, particularly one who's no longer with us, because at that point it's not just about you anymore.

However, it is her life and her story to tell if she chooses to tell it. It is all of our choices as to whether we want to read it or not. Some of us may think less of her for writing it, some may not. I'm not sure yet.
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Old Aug 09, 2007, 12:45 PM   #64
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I support Patties right to publish whatever she wishes, after all many lives have been lost defending these inalienable rights. However, I had hoped that she would have not been lured into the temptation to denigrate the deceased, especially since she has respectfully avoided lucrative temptations to tell-all in the past.

The tabloid mentality, in my humble opinion, has evolved into a very harmful global obsession, sometimes even destroying human lives. Seeking monetary enrichment from the exposure of private human and celebrity foibles that do not have the consent of all parties, does not sit well with me.

I support the right of others to choose their preferred commerce, but I will not continue to feed the destructive tabloid and tell-all machine. I respect and support privacy when it is reasonable to do so.

Besides, if I want to have a good laugh, I don't have to look much further than the ridiculous things I have done in my life. That's for another day and a few beers.
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Old Aug 09, 2007, 03:06 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erinluv182 View Post
I definitely don't know Patti, but almost everything I've heard about her has been positive. I think if she can manage to write a book like Cynthia's John, then she'll be in good shape. Cyn manage to spill the beans about John, but still do it in a way that communicates love and respect for him. I think most Beatles fans already know about George's fling with Maureen, and we definitely know that George wasn't faithful to her, so why shouldn't Patti be allowed to tell her side of the story? If people are somehow shocked or offended at what went down in her and George's relationship, then I would say that they probably didn't know too much Beatles info to begin with. I doubt Patti could say something that would make me think less of George.

I am definitely looking forward to her book coming out, and I will rush out to get it!
Well said, Erin. I don't know Pattie personally and it is not my place to judge her.

George was human and despite his human foibles and
failings, he was a good human being and regardless of
waht Pattie may have written, I seriously doubt I'd
ever think less of George.

Cyn did write an excellent book about John as did
John's sister, Julia. Never once did either speak of
John in a diserspectful or tawdry fashion, never once
did either exploit John's memory or deify him or deni-
grate him. They were honest portayals of a human
being as only a former wife and a sibling could have
possibly known him. Cyn has class.

Hari's Chick, once again you speak pearls of wisdom.
I'd like to thank you for your compassionate, good
comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hari's Chick
Oh one more thought... though George was no saint 'back when'... in the Vaisnava faith, he is believed to be a Pure Soul now, as he passed over chanting the Holy Names. As such, we believe he went straight to Krishna... into Krishna's highest abode. Devotees can even have George's photo, because of this, next to Prabhupada, Chaitania, and Krishna on their home alters. He is considered Pure.

As such, what Pattie does ... is considered a grave offense against God.
I like that - excellent point. We all know George was baptized into Catholicism as an infant. The tenets expressed above are not too different from those of the Catholic faith...Scripture dictates avoiding gossip, Devil's Radio if you will.

George died chanting the Names of the Lord and he had Jesus in his heart....it is indeed the beautiful musical prayers George wrote that are used in my church for prayer meetings and discussion groups. In fact, there is a passage in Scripture about how God uses the signs and symbols of the times to get through to people.

One of the area church choirs sing "Here Comes the Son" - same song, only "Son" instead of "Sun" because the song is being sung to and about Jesus.
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Old Aug 09, 2007, 03:35 PM   #66
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BB, that is beautiful... :)

I was re-reading a remark from George this morning. It was because of Elvis' anniversary. George is speaking about how he goes to meet Elvis after a concert in 1972. Though they are on very different sides of the sociopolitical fences, Elvis confided that he saw George differently than as 'just a Beatle'... that George, like Elvis, was a seeker of God. That is why Elvis looked forward/allowed a meeting with George.

So, George remarks in his way that he arrives in his "uniform"- jeans jacket and jeans, mustache and beard, hair way down his back... and he says he felt so small ... like a "grubby little slug"... and Elvis was like Lord Shiva.

Same scenario, now, but pretend he is confiding this feeling to Pattie. Fast forward, 2007, Pattie sits in her mansion looking for a few pounds to be able to get the face lift or so from the surgeon she wants...but now... what George said makes not such a good story. So.. it needs a little creative licensing. Instead, oh and without "lying"... Pattie beings to type away...

"George once confided in me how he felt dreadful about his appearance. He would get into deep depressions wher he felt he looked even molluscular... His delusions soon began to effect me. I imagined I was also a mollusk and found myself constantly self conscious I would smear the sidewalks..."

next chapter, perhaps...

"George fantasized Elvis was Lord Shiva. He was so obsessed with religion he would envision such things. As his friends would come over I would worry George may mistake Ravi for Gandhi... or perhaps Robert Plant as the Buddha. You never knew what would enter his spiritually obsessed mind next."


Journalistic license. So George hears perhaps a story of Krishna and the gopis and makes an little personal, private off color joke to Pattie... "hey, what say we invite a group of girl into the house and play gopi this afternoon?...Nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more..." Fast forward to 2007. George is not in his physical body... he cannot refute. So Pattie stretches that truth, that humor, that adorable George light heartedness .... into a pathological tendency.. Why? Because it sells.

My humble opinion and thoughts only.
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Old Aug 09, 2007, 04:04 PM   #67
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If that is the case, then that is very sad. I would have expected better from Pattie that something like this.

When George died, Pattie said that she would always love George.

In fairness, I will reserve judgment until I read the book. I confess that I pre-ordered it online.
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Old Aug 09, 2007, 05:52 PM   #68
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If that is the case, then that is very sad. I would have expected better from Pattie that something like this.

When George died, Pattie said that she would always love George.

In fairness, I will reserve judgment until I read the book. I confess that I pre-ordered it online.
I completerly understand. I wish the book would change my feelings because I want to like Pattie. The excerpts unfortunately have been enough to make me lose faith in her.

If someone wrote a nasty book, any book, on someone I loved... a close friend for example... I would want to read that, too. If nothing else it is good to be prepared in case someone someday says, "Oh, I read that he...." At least it does not come then from out of the blue. So I understand wanting to read it. By the way, so long as the spine is not creased, anyone who wishes may return it at any point for store credit or (with receipt) for cash... including after it is read. In normal chains that is a 30 day policy.

The hard part is that my fabrications above are obvious. I am sure hers will be more subtle, which just makes them more dangeous, imho. The example I took about the gopis and Krishna was an actual example, from the excerpts.
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Old Aug 14, 2007, 03:47 AM   #69
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Subtle untruths are the most dangerous kind...they plant seeds of doubt in the minds of others and distort reality at the subject's disadvantage...devil's radio, if you will.

I do look forward to reading the book out of interest and I will reserve judgment until I do. Still, these excerpts sound rather mean spirited...I am still holding out hope that I am wrong about this.
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Old Aug 14, 2007, 06:18 AM   #70
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Yes, George was a public figure, though a reluctant one. That does not give Pattie the right to spill his life to the world as if it is owed.
Unfortunately it's up to each individual to do whatever they choose with the information they have. I've been around enough famous people to know that if they don't share the info with the general public, or if they're private about their personal lives, then they probably don't want that info out. I respect that & keep my mouth shut. But that's just how I feel. I have made some promises to public people & never told what they've shared if they've asked me not to share. So yes, I'm hoping Pattie isn't giving too much away.

But while we know George was private, it doesn't stop people from sharing information. We fans here on Links don't even stop talking. We love to grab any bit of gossip & speculate up the yazoo. I'm sure Pattie isn't telling everything, but if we fans can't even stop talking about George's private life, how can we be upset with others who talk about it?
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Old Aug 14, 2007, 08:23 PM   #71
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Asha, you raise good points.

George was a reluctant public figure and although he was reluctant, that does not stop us or others from being interested in him and his life. I do hope that Pattie will be respectful of George as a person in her book.

I've only known a few famous people and I have not disclosed things that were shared in private. To me that is unethical and not in keeping with that person's interests...I would not feel right about that.

You are right, Asha, we are always sharing and talking about the Beatles and those closest to them all over the internet. Even so, I would never disclose anything that someone, famous or not said in a private context. It is one thing to pass out publicly related information. It is an entirely different matter to betray confidences by disclosing private matters.
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Old Aug 15, 2007, 11:19 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Hari's Chick
I completerly understand. I wish the book would change my feelings because I want to like Pattie. The excerpts unfortunately have been enough to make me lose faith in her.

If someone wrote a nasty book, any book, on someone I loved... a close friend for example... I would want to read that, too. If nothing else it is good to be prepared in case someone someday says, "Oh, I read that he...." At least it does not come then from out of the blue. So I understand wanting to read it. By the way, so long as the spine is not creased, anyone who wishes may return it at any point for store credit or (with receipt) for cash... including after it is read. In normal chains that is a 30 day policy.
Thanks for the advice. As for the other could you point me to some of these excerpts? If they are really really bad or just provocative i want to see them. If Patti truly feels like some of the men in her life just used her for her body, and not her spirit or her mind, then doesn't she have the right to a public airing, to let the demons loose, to tell her side of the story? If nothing else that would prove that she has nothing to hide. If this has already been covered then i apologize.
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Old Aug 15, 2007, 02:46 PM   #73
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Thanks for the advice. As for the other could you point me to some of these excerpts? If they are really really bad or just provocative i want to see them. If Patti truly feels like some of the men in her life just used her for her body, and not her spirit or her mind, then doesn't she have the right to a public airing, to let the demons loose, to tell her side of the story? If nothing else that would prove that she has nothing to hide. If this has already been covered then i apologize.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1879

I don't think this has been brought up before, Frog. Here is the link for you.
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Old Aug 15, 2007, 02:57 PM   #74
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You are right, Asha, we are always sharing and talking about the Beatles and those closest to them all over the internet. Even so, I would never disclose anything that someone, famous or not said in a private context. It is one thing to pass out publicly related information. It is an entirely different matter to betray confidences by disclosing private matters.
Yeah, BB, that is exactly how I feel, too. It does not matter at all to me if someone is famous. People are people. I'd think George deserved the same respect no matter which job he may have.
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Old Aug 15, 2007, 06:01 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hari's Chick
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1879

I don't think this has been brought up before, Frog. Here is the link for you.
Thank you Hari's Chick. It's necessary to examine this in a proper fashion, if nothing else.
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Old Aug 15, 2007, 08:06 PM   #76
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People are people, Hari's Chick and George himself even admitted that he found it hard to believe that people were putting their faith in rock stars. George was a very humble man...part of the reason my church loves him is because he a) dedicated his talent to God and b) brought people closer to God via his music and c) he wrote these beautiful prayers that have touched many hearts and he never compromised his style for any reason. Those are just some of the reasons I love George...yes, he did deserve the same respect as any human being does.
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Old Aug 16, 2007, 04:59 AM   #77
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Thanks for the link, HC!

Sounds like Pattie is sincere in what she's saying &, at least to me, she doesn't sound as though she's trying to spill trash about Eric or George. I think she's trying to be honest about what she remembers about her experiences. She mentioned that she wanted her friends & family to know the truth, so in many ways, I wish she would've just shared the info with them & not released it publicly. But who knows... maybe the general public has asked her so much, she feels the need to answer some questions?

So far she hasn't really said anything we didn't really already know, has she? I hope you all know what I'm saying. I sort of wish she wasn't doing it & left it as it were. But maybe Eric & George would've been ok with it? We just can't ask George, can we?

Based on the link HC shared, it sounds like she is hoping to deter some from getting into drugs (which had to make things very difficult for her & her relationships with anyone). This could be a good thing in that respect.
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Old Aug 16, 2007, 05:04 AM   #78
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Asha, you raise good points.

George was a reluctant public figure and although he was reluctant, that does not stop us or others from being interested in him and his life. I do hope that Pattie will be respectful of George as a person in her book.

I've only known a few famous people and I have not disclosed things that were shared in private. To me that is unethical and not in keeping with that person's interests...I would not feel right about that.

You are right, Asha, we are always sharing and talking about the Beatles and those closest to them all over the internet. Even so, I would never disclose anything that someone, famous or not said in a private context. It is one thing to pass out publicly related information. It is an entirely different matter to betray confidences by disclosing private matters.
Right, BB. George was private. We all know that. & yes, if someone asks us not to repeat something, then obviously we wouldn't share it. That makes sense. But if you've never talked to George personally & he's never had the chance to tell you not to talk about his private life, does that mean we should go ahead & do it? I mean, logically, we can see that he was private, so just because he doesn't personally ask us not to talk about his family & his private life, we should still be able to make the decision on what to talk about & what not to, shouldn't we? However, this isn't always the case.

& I'm in total agreement! This isn't just for George or someone famous. The "rule" applies to every human being. We should all be courteous & respectful of each other.
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Old Aug 16, 2007, 06:06 AM   #79
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& I'm in total agreement! This isn't just for George or someone famous. The "rule" applies to every human being. We should all be courteous & respectful of each other.
A nice thought, to be sure, but I think most people talk/speculate about others, famous or not.

I'm interested in reading what Patti has to say because I love reading about life if the 60's.

Whatever Patti has to say about George (and Eric, too) won't change the way I feel about them. My opinion has been firmly formed about George for many years.
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Old Aug 16, 2007, 07:40 AM   #80
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A nice thought, to be sure, but I think most people talk/speculate about others, famous or not.

I'm interested in reading what Patti has to say because I love reading about life if the 60's.

Whatever Patti has to say about George (and Eric, too) won't change the way I feel about them. My opinion has been firmly formed about George for many years.
Mine, too, Lynn, and the excerpts I've read haven't exactly shocked me. I am hoping that the book overall has a balanced picture of everyone, and I am still looking forward to reading it. It's all so long ago now and they had all changed so much since then. They were all still friends by the end of George's life so evidently any negative feelings had long since gone away. The guys had a thing or two to say about the things that happened between them all, now it's Pattie's turn.

I recall reading some of George's own quotes in the Anthology and thinking, "Too much information, George!"
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