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Old Dec 14, 2003, 10:25 AM   #1
jad2k1
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Default DECCA AUDITION QUESTION

hey. i was reading the anthology 1 booklet and it said the beatles played 15 songs for the decca audition including the 5 on the anthology,i was wondering, have all 15 ever been released on bootleg?

joe
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Old Dec 14, 2003, 12:03 PM   #2
Legs
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Default Re: DECCA AUDITION QUESTION

Yes, the best one to get imo is The Decca Tapes revised right speed, by Yellow Dog. YDB 101, which came in a box set, or also by Yellow Dog, "The Decca Tapes" YD 061, which was released separetly.
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Old Dec 15, 2003, 08:05 AM   #3
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Default Re: DECCA AUDITION QUESTION

Quote:
Originally Posted By Legs:
Yes, the best one to get imo is The Decca Tapes revised right speed, by Yellow Dog. YDB 101, which came in a box set, or also by Yellow Dog, "The Decca Tapes" YD 061, which was released separetly.
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">I just listened to that yesterday! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

The YD speed corrected one also includes some Cavern rehersals, making it essential to any Beatleg library. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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Old Dec 15, 2003, 08:09 AM   #4
Tim
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Default Re: DECCA AUDITION QUESTION

Decca was one of the bootlegs I got.
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Old Dec 15, 2003, 01:24 PM   #5
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Default Re: DECCA AUDITION QUESTION

The full list of songs at the Decca Audition was;

Besame Mucho, Hello Little Girl, The Sheik Of Araby, September In The Rain, Three Cool Cats, Love Of The Loved, Memphis, Till There Was You, Crying Waiting Hoping, Like Dreamers Do, Money, Searching, Sure To Fall, To Know Her Is To Love Her, and Take Good Care Of My Baby.

12 cover tunes and 3 Lennon/McCartney originals.
The originals being Hello Little Girl, Love Of The Loved, and Like Dreamers Do. Interesting for me is that only Money and Till There Was You were recorded on their Parlophone LPs.

[size="1"][ Dec 15, 2003, 02:25 PM: Message Edited By: Blackguard ][/size]
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Old Dec 16, 2003, 10:10 AM   #6
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Default Re: DECCA AUDITION QUESTION

Legs, does your copy of the YD version have some weird noise right after Track 1?

Another more general question: is the running order on the YD version the order on the original audition tape?
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Old Apr 21, 2010, 11:01 AM   #7
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The issue here is not that they were in or out of tune but whether or not they were tuned to proper concert pitch.

The difference is if you are in tune and you play a G chord it sounds good, there are no bad sounding notes within the chord. If you are tuned and at proper pitch that G chord will match a G chord on a well tuned piano or other tuning reference. If you tuned a whole step down from concert pitch that G chord will sound like an A chord.

A good example is Chuck Berry's early singles were performed at concert pitch but when the tapes were transferred to vinyl they sped the tape up so that when Chuck plays an E chord it sounds like an F chord. This was done to make Chucks voice sound higher and younger. So when Kieth Richards learned to play Chucks songs he learned them in a different key than the one Chuck actually played them in.
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Old Apr 26, 2010, 07:19 AM   #8
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No, the issue is whether or not the person doing the adjusting of the tapes years after the fact was ever there at the Decca audition, and he or she wasn't.

So, how does one REALLY know if they are not the "correct pitch" as recorded? Answer: THEY DO NOT.

How do you KNOW Chuck Berry's tapes were sped up, were you in the studio? Nope, flyboy.

Speed correction is an arbitrary thing, I'm afraid to tell you. As you may or may not know, none of the remaining Beatles or any of their entourage remember anything, and Mark Lewisohn wasn't there, either (besides, he's useless).



Quote:
Originally Posted by UncaDan View Post
The issue here is not that they were in or out of tune but whether or not they were tuned to proper concert pitch.

The difference is if you are in tune and you play a G chord it sounds good, there are no bad sounding notes within the chord. If you are tuned and at proper pitch that G chord will match a G chord on a well tuned piano or other tuning reference. If you tuned a whole step down from concert pitch that G chord will sound like an A chord.

A good example is Chuck Berry's early singles were performed at concert pitch but when the tapes were transferred to vinyl they sped the tape up so that when Chuck plays an E chord it sounds like an F chord. This was done to make Chucks voice sound higher and younger. So when Kieth Richards learned to play Chucks songs he learned them in a different key than the one Chuck actually played them in.
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Old Apr 26, 2010, 01:47 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmpc View Post
No, the issue is whether or not the person doing the adjusting of the tapes years after the fact was ever there at the Decca audition, and he or she wasn't.

So, how does one REALLY know if they are not the "correct pitch" as recorded? Answer: THEY DO NOT.

How do you KNOW Chuck Berry's tapes were sped up, were you in the studio? Nope, flyboy.

Speed correction is an arbitrary thing, I'm afraid to tell you. As you may or may not know, none of the remaining Beatles or any of their entourage remember anything, and Mark Lewisohn wasn't there, either (besides, he's useless).

I believe that if the remaining Beatles do not remember anything, it's because there probably was nothing to be remembered. Don't you think Paul might remember that, just for once, they decided to tune down their guitars out of nervousness? If anyone made the decision to play at a different pitch than usual, it was the Beatles, so if there's someone who can remember it, it's he.

Speed correction may be an arbitrary thing when you haven't got any reference. But we do know in what tone the Beatles usually played some of the songs of the Decca audition. And I use the word "usually" in spite of the fact that there's no known instance of their doing it otherwise. Now, if you mean that we cannot know whether they were tuned to A440 or to A441, there you're right. In fact, my bootleg with the "speed correction" is at a very slightly different speed than the version used in "Anthology"... But they're clearly at the same pitch. I listened to a bootleg recording with the supposedly original speed, and, as I also mentioned above, you've only got to compare the voices and the drums and decide which version sounds more natural.

Following your reasoning, how do you know it was the Beatles who recorded the audition? Were you there at the studio? No, you weren't. Was "When I'm Sixty-Four" speeded up? Or was that Paul's natural voice, and all the rest of the rougher-sounding songs were slowed down? We cannot know, can we? We weren't there. How do you know George is dead, and that it wasn't all a farce to allow him to retire to a secluded life in the Himalayas, forgotten for ever by the paparazzi? Were you there to put the pennies on his eyes? How do we know the Cro-Magnon were hunters? Has whoever stated it lived for so long? Do you usually cut every cake before you eat it, just in case the pastry cook had a funny day and put a dead mouse inside? You weren't there when he made it! Take care!
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Last edited by El Gos Coix : Apr 26, 2010 at 01:49 PM. Reason: Misleading spelling mistake
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Old Apr 24, 2010, 09:54 AM   #10
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Who made the choices/final decision for the Decca recordings?
Brian? The Beatles? ... all the above?
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Old Apr 27, 2010, 11:33 AM   #11
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Quote:
How do you KNOW Chuck Berry's tapes were sped up
Because he said so. Watch "Hail, Hail, Rock and Roll".

Varying the tape speed was/is not an uncommon practice. The Beatles used it often for different effects ("Rain" was played fast then slowed down). Read "The Complete Recording Sessions".

I have not heard enough different versions of the Decca tapes to comment on those but it wouldn't be the first time a bootlegger got it wrong.
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Old May 01, 2010, 01:00 PM   #12
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I avoid Lewisohn's garbage like I avoid the plague.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UncaDan View Post
Because he said so. Watch "Hail, Hail, Rock and Roll".

Varying the tape speed was/is not an uncommon practice. The Beatles used it often for different effects ("Rain" was played fast then slowed down). Read "The Complete Recording Sessions".

I have not heard enough different versions of the Decca tapes to comment on those but it wouldn't be the first time a bootlegger got it wrong.
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Old May 01, 2010, 01:05 PM   #13
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If the Beatles DO know what went on, then how does one explain Paul not remembering who played bass on You Never Give Me Your Money?
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Old May 03, 2010, 01:15 AM   #14
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Who said the Beatles knew and remembered everything? Not remembering something may mean it did or did not happen, but something that didn't happen cannot be remembered, in principle. It's easy to see how Paul cannot remember who finally played what in a certain song if everyone in the sudio (and, for literal minds, I'd like to clarify that by "everyone" I mean Paul, John and George) had a go at it, as I'm sure must have often happened. But a change in the tuning of the instruments because they were so nervous about the audition, being something completely uncommon and premeditated, is much more likely to be remembered.
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Old May 03, 2010, 05:00 AM   #15
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I would consider it highly unlikely for a band to do tape speed manipulation on a live demo tape. I would also think that tuning to a non-standard pitch would be unlikely as that can really mess with a vocalist's performance.

While they might not have been tuned precisely, you can bet they were in the ballpark. I would be more apt to suspect slight differences in the speeds of the machine it was recorded on vs the machne it was played back on. (Especially if it ever saw a transfer to cassette in it's lineage.)
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Old May 09, 2010, 01:25 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by earwax View Post
I would consider it highly unlikely for a band to do tape speed manipulation on a live demo tape. I would also think that tuning to a non-standard pitch would be unlikely as that can really mess with a vocalist's performance.

While they might not have been tuned precisely, you can bet they were in the ballpark. I would be more apt to suspect slight differences in the speeds of the machine it was recorded on vs the machne it was played back on. (Especially if it ever saw a transfer to cassette in it's lineage.)
Which would imply a "speed correction" then and not 30 some odd years later...

I would suspect someone would have corrected it a LONG time ago (in like 1962?), as Brian was using that demo to market the Beatles. Otherwise, he was just being DUMB, and no wonder why only Parlophone wanted them.
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Old May 10, 2010, 04:39 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmpc View Post
Which would imply a "speed correction" then and not 30 some odd years later...

I would suspect someone would have corrected it a LONG time ago (in like 1962?), as Brian was using that demo to market the Beatles. Otherwise, he was just being DUMB, and no wonder why only Parlophone wanted them.
No, that doesn't really imply anything.

BTW - I've never checked to see if the Deccagone singles I got through Joe Pope's Strawberry Fields in the late 70's are in "tune" or not.
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Old May 09, 2010, 09:28 PM   #18
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I'm sure the original tapes at that time were fine. Also I don't think the Beatles decided on performing the songs differently. It's somewhere down the line with the transfers of these tapes, and thus going down furture away from the original source, things can go wrong where a pitch corrections later on are needed.

In short it depends on which bootleg is the nearest to the source tape that gets you the best version, did they use the bootleg singles of the material for example or did they work with tape and if so how many generations removed from the original source tape.

There are many bootlegs and the debate as what's the best version will go on for a long time.
I recently got the latest Dr. Ebbet's version, and to me that's where I am going to leave it at.

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