new Beatle-y book

Danoota64 · Feb 20, 2003, 08:34 AM

I haven't posted this sort of thing before, mentioning two new books. I'm not hocking them - but remove my post if it is not appropriate.

A friend of mine found this on amazon.com today and i think it's worth sharing!

a new book called "Liverpool Fantasy" by Larry Kirwin, a paperback coming out in April. Here is the book description:
It's 1987, and the Beatles are gathering in Liverpool for a reunion. It has been twenty-five years since John Lennon walked out of the Parlophone studios, taking George and Ringo with him. Paul, American-speaking and -acting, has become the world-famous Las Vegas entertainer Paul Montana, and he's visiting Liverpool for the first time since 1962, hoping to reunite with his boyhood chums, the once "hottest little quartet-in Liverpool." Father George, now a Jesuit priest, is recovering from a nervous breakdown; John is embittered, alcoholic, unemployed, and on the dole. His wife has left him, and young Julian has joined the fascist National Front. Ringo lives on the earnings of his entrepreneurial hairdressing wife while he and John sit in weekends with old rivals, Gerry and the Pacemakers. It is Lennon's curse that he can imagine what might have been. Liverpool Fantasy is a blackly comic meditation on the enduring hazards of friendship, the alchemy of collaboration, and what a world without the Beatles-that is, without idealism-looks like.
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Another is "Once A Man Twice A Child: Part I Tomorrow Never Knows" by Dan Alice. It's available now. No book description, but here is a review:
Reviewer: Alexander Joseph & Associates from Windsor, Ontario Canada
Once A Man Twice A Child has completely changed my perspective and understanding John Lennon's death. Before reading this book I did not know much about Lennon or The Beatles other than the songs they recorded. I live in the same town as the author and was lucky enough to meet Dan Alice. He handed me a copy of his manuscript. The first thing that captivated me about this book was the strange image on the cover; A man dressed as a walrus with outstretched arms similar to Jesus on the cross. It seemed kind of taboo to me. Later I discovered that this Walrus was also found on the cover of The Magical Mystery Tour Album. The walrus is also the Scandinavian symbol for death. I found it even stranger that the song I Am The Walrus from this Magical Mystery Tour Album was released exactly 13 years to the day before Lennon was murdered. Was this album and walrus a sign predicting Lennon's death or just a coincidence? When the novel suggested this I thought that this was insane. Personally I am very skeptical when it comes to coincidences, prophecies, astrology, spirits, etc. However, after reading this novel and the hundreds of strange coincidences and facts interpreted through numerological and astrological interpretation I began to think twice. I became so obsessed that I looked up as many facts the book brings up and every one of them is completely true! People, places, dates, events, ect., all 100% true. It made me wonder if the spirit of John Lennon's deceased best friend Stuart Sutcliffe was still among us and if Lennon's death was written into the stars. It has really spooked me out especially since so much evidenced has been overturned in this novel and examined from a perspective no one has ever taken before. I love this novel and give it two thumbs up. I would recommend it to anyone especially if you are a Beatle or Lennon fan.

[img]graemlins/peace.gif[/img]

Savoy Truffle · Feb 20, 2003, 12:07 PM

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Originally posted by HMVNipper:
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Originally Posted By Savoy Truffle:
True, HMV, but George had his views on the Catholic Church before he was exposed to Indian philosophy.
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Okay, good point, but it also depends on WHEN the point of departure is for the story...I'm still willing to entertain the idea that it is plausible, it depends on how the story is framed. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Point well taken, HMV! George definitely had spiritual leanings so I guess anything's possible in an alternate world. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

I just didn't see him picking the Catholic Church! My last words on the subject! [img]graemlins/wink3.gif[/img]

PS Maybe it's irony on the author's part! Or, he just never read The Beatles Anthology!

[size="1"][ Feb 20, 2003, 03:00 PM: Message Edited By: Savoy Truffle ][/size]

HMVNipper · Feb 20, 2003, 11:16 PM

Thanks for the info, Sue!

The Larry Kirwin book I knew about -- an excerpt was published in Tower Records' Pulse! Magazine about a year or so ago, and it is AWESOME! Honest to God GOOD fanfic! Larry is the leader of the Irish-American band Black 47 and a big Beatles fan. I am VERY much looking forward to seeing the book, finally! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

The other book...I also knew about that one, and as far as I am concerned it's ridiculous. The author posted here maybe a year or so ago and insisted that his story was not fiction, but FACT, and I found that kind of hard to swallow. Anyone know anything further about it?

Savoy Truffle · Feb 20, 2003, 11:30 PM

Interesting!

But I find it kind of hard to imagine George as 'Father George a Jesuit priest' though, given what his views of the Catholic Church are. He had those views from an early age too.

Paul as a Las Vegas entertainer is an amusing thought though! [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

HMVNipper · Feb 20, 2003, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted By Savoy Truffle:
Interesting!

But I find it kind of hard to imagine George as 'Father George a Jesuit priest' though, given what his views of the Catholic Church are. He had those views from an early age too.

Paul as a Las Vegas entertainer is an amusing thought though! [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

It's an alternate-history; therefore, it assumes that the Beatles phenomenon never happened, which would logically mean that George would never have had the exposure to Indian philosophy, etc. -- and so it is feasible in the framwork of an alt-his story that this could have been his path, if he still had SOME kind of spiritual bent anyway.

I don't think it's too farfetched if you remember that it's an alt-his story!

Savoy Truffle · Feb 20, 2003, 11:39 PM

True, HMV, but George had his views on the Catholic Church before he was exposed to Indian philosophy.

[size="1"][ Feb 20, 2003, 12:40 PM: Message Edited By: Savoy Truffle ][/size]

HMVNipper · Feb 20, 2003, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted By Savoy Truffle:
True, HMV, but George had his views on the Catholic Church before he was exposed to Indian philosophy.

Okay, good point, but it also depends on WHEN the point of departure is for the story...I'm still willing to entertain the idea that it is plausible, it depends on how the story is framed. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

JDanRyan · Feb 23, 2003, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted By Savoy Truffle:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />Originally posted by HMVNipper:
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By Savoy Truffle:
True, HMV, but George had his views on the Catholic Church before he was exposed to Indian philosophy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay, good point, but it also depends on WHEN the point of departure is for the story...I'm still willing to entertain the idea that it is plausible, it depends on how the story is framed. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Point well taken, HMV! George definitely had spiritual leanings so I guess anything's possible in an alternate world. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

I just didn't see him picking the Catholic Church! My last words on the subject! [img]graemlins/wink3.gif[/img]

PS Maybe it's irony on the author's part! Or, he just never read The Beatles Anthology!<hr /></blockquote>Somehow I doubt that Larry Kirwin has avoided the book. If there was any research used to write the story, which is essential to any AltHis tale, it was probably among the first works consulted. The idea that it might be ironic, though, could be true.

As far as the likelihood of something like this coming about, there's a pretty good amount of support for both sides here.

On the one hand, the idea that George might have considered Catholicism isn't too far out of the realm of the likely. Among other English artists who found themselves looking for further spiritual depth who turned that direction were Oscar Wilde, G. K. Chesterton and Evelyn Waugh, and in the north country so close to the Irish, George might conceivably have considered it.

On the other hand, whether George would have taken the orders seems like a stretch without prompting by some event. If there had been a true moment of epiphany that could have prompted him, like a near disaster, there's a slight chance, but that's imagining something major occurring to him. For George to sign up for the SoJ, it probably would have taken something cataclysmic, which we'd have to see in the book if it met this requirement.

The thing to keep in mind is that when one does an AltHis, the writer examines the established record, proposes a change, and then works through the repercussions from there. The question that arises is how radical a change has been introduced, not only in its immediate impact but how far out of whack it throws everything down the road. While the likelihood that George could have been a priest, even a Jesuit, is present, we won't really know just how likely that would have been until we read the book.

This question would probably best be served by tabling it until we all read LIVERPOOL FANTASY, and then revisiting the point to see if Larry made a strong enough argument supporting this.