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Old Sep 14, 2002, 06:51 AM   #41
SF4-EVER
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Default Re: The Beatles and \"Slash\"

Actually, Susan, from the slash I've read on fanfiction.net, my impression is that a lot of the writers are teenagers or in their early twenties. I wonder sometimes if writing slash is a way for them to explore sexuality in a fairly safe way. Let's face it, your sex drive generally develops before age 18. In days gone by, when people had shorter life expectancies, it made biological sense for people to start reproducing early. These days, it makes more sense, emotionally and economically, to wait and complete your education before having children. Our biology has not caught up to our new way of life, however. So I can understand why someone who's not of legal age would be interested in sex. But writing/reading slash is probably not the best way to learn about it.

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Old Sep 14, 2002, 08:01 AM   #42
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Default Re: The Beatles and \"Slash\"

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By SF4-EVER:
Actually, Susan, from the slash I've read on fanfiction.net, my impression is that a lot of the writers are teenagers or in their early twenties. I wonder sometimes if writing slash is a way for them to explore sexuality in a fairly safe way. Let's face it, your sex drive generally develops before age 18. In days gone by, when people had shorter life expectancies, it made biological sense for people to start reproducing early. These days, it makes more sense, emotionally and economically, to wait and complete your education before having children. Our biology has not caught up to our new way of life, however. So I can understand why someone who's not of legal age would be interested in sex. But writing/reading slash is probably not the best way to learn about it.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I can understand it too, but that doesn't mean I think it's the best thing for teenagers to read or write! Actually, MOST slash is written by women in their 30s and 40s, that has been discussed. And I just don't know that I would want MY underage kid to be reading or writing slash fic. I think that if you are too young to have a grasp on your OWN sexuality, reading slash is not the way to find out about it -- particularly since Beatleslash is implausible, since all four of them were HETERO, so it's completely unrealistic.

I'm probably not making myself clear, but I just do not think "I like slash, it's good" is a terribly appropriate thing for a young person to be saying, so I wanted to know why lilsam thinks it's so great.

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Old Sep 14, 2002, 10:22 AM   #43
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Default Re: The Beatles and \"Slash\"

Actually, Susan, I reread the article you posted in this topic, and it says altough fanfic (not necessarily slash, fanfic in general) used to be dominated by middle-aged women, kids are becoming more predominant. I can't quote directly from the article, since it's so long.

For the record, I have read slash, and I have to admit I've found some stories both well-written and emotionally involving. Still, I can't get over the fact that slash makes some drastic changes to the fundmental traits of real people, and, IMO, they would not want to be portrayed in this way.

Almost everyone who's posted here so far, including me, hasn't been in favor of slash. I have to applaud lil sam for having the courage to state a contrary opinion. Perhaps she or someone else could explain what is it about slash that's so enjoyable and why you can't get it from a more conventional story.

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Old Sep 14, 2002, 11:26 AM   #44
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Default Re: The Beatles and \"Slash\"

Sandra--

Here is how I look at slash. Like I said before: if it's well done, it can be enjoyable. IMHO, all fan-fiction is fantasy; it poses its readers with a "What-If?" question. What if the Beatles went back in time? What if the Beatles woke up and found themselves on another planet? And similarly, with slash, what if one or more of the Beatles was gay?

Now we, as fans, know that the Beatles were/are not gay. We also know that the Beatles did not go back in time, have never visited another planet, and did not make a habit out of marrying their fans.

The fact that something isn't true for a fact doesn't mean it can't be plausible. Is it ENTIRELY out of the realm of belief that one of the Beatles might be gay? True, it might not be appealing to their female fans, but if you stretch your imagination, you might be able to accept, at least for the purpose of well-written slash, that the Beatles might, just MIGHT, have had feelings like this. We know they didn't, but we also know the story is FANTASY.

I read one earlier, about George's tender, hidden love for Paul, and found it incredibly moving. I stand by my opinion of slash: if it's well-written, just like any other form of fanfiction, it can be enjoyable.

And that's all i have to say about that. (BTW, would you like a chocolate? )



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Old Sep 14, 2002, 02:59 PM   #45
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Default Re: The Beatles and \"Slash\"

I am sorry if my opinion that children should not be reading slash made anyone uncomfortable, but it still makes me queasy. Certainly I read sexually explicit material of a certain nature when I was a teen, but if I had questions about things like that, I went to my parents, who were open and always willing to answer my questions. I guess not everyone has that luxury or ability. If you were insulted, lilsam, well, I stand by my opinion that you shouldn't be reading it, but that's your business, I'm not your mother. And I DID say I wanted to know WHY you find it so great -- maybe you can explain further and I will understand.

I don't care if ANYONE wants to read or write the stuff -- it's a free country. I just don't care for it. I've yet to read any that doesn't turn my stomach, and it's not because I don't like gay people or am homophobic or don't believe there CAN be one that is well done, it's that I find all the slash I HAVE read to be silly, angst-ridden, over the top and poorly-written. What makes ME sick about it is not the homosexuality, it's the bad writing...sorry...if someone could show me a good one, maybe I'd change my idea, but I haven't found one yet.

To each his or her own, I guess...it's just not for me.

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"In writing, the difference between the right word and almost the right word is like the difference between lightning and lightning bugs." - Mark Twain
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Old Sep 14, 2002, 04:09 PM   #46
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Default Re: The Beatles and \"Slash\"

I'm with you, Susan. I think it's revolting, and it's NOT just because of the sloppy grammar, poor spelling, and weak plots in the examples that I have seen. I'm sure there ARE well-written pieces out there,but the whole idea just turns my stomach.It's not because of the gay themes--I am in the middle of writing a gay-themed story right now for SUSPECT THOUGHTS e-zine. It's because I think it is terribly disrespectful to the Beatles themselves to write about them doing things that they never gave anyone any reason to believe that they would do.
I know they didn't time travel, go to other planets, or make a habit of marrying their fans, but slash is different. I think of it as slanderous, actually. I've noticed that in most of the stories, John is the aggressor. I've said this plenty of times before--John had faults (gasp!) and one of those faults was that he was EXTREMELY homophobic. I cannot begin to imagine how incensed he would be to read some of the stuff that I have seen written about him in the slash genre.I think he would find a lot of the stories I have read about him amusing, but that certainly doesn't include any stories in which he is trying to seduce George or Paul!
This being the case, I don't believe such stuff should be published about him, especially since he is no longer here to defend himself.The same thing applies to any other blatantly heterosexual man, living or dead.
If you want to write slash, write about Elton John or someone else who is known to be gay, or make up your own gay characters.
That's what I think.

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Old Sep 14, 2002, 09:24 PM   #47
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Default Re: The Beatles and \"Slash\"

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By MonaMe577:
The fact that something isn't true for a fact doesn't mean it can't be plausible. Is it ENTIRELY out of the realm of belief that one of the Beatles might be gay? True, it might not be appealing to their female fans, but if you stretch your imagination, you might be able to accept, at least for the purpose of well-written slash, that the Beatles might, just MIGHT, have had feelings like this. We know they didn't, but we also know the story is FANTASY.

I read one earlier, about George's tender, hidden love for Paul, and found it incredibly moving. I stand by my opinion of slash: if it's well-written, just like any other form of fanfiction, it can be enjoyable.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well said. I'm not a fan ANY story with graphic sex, straight or gay or otherwise. I do believe that many slash authors use it as an opportunity to write mindless smut, but then again, I've seen a few well-written, intriguing slash stories as well. As SF4-EVER mentioned, it's difficult for me to really get into the story because it's so implausible, but I don't automatically dismiss a story just because it has slash themes.

And for some reason, slash seems to appeal overwhelmingly to the female fans!

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Old Sep 15, 2002, 06:32 AM   #48
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Default Re: The Beatles and \"Slash\"

Can SOMEONE please provide me with some URLS for these "well-written, intriguing, tender" slash stories? I can't seem to find them, and yet everyone is telling us about them. (Though I realize that a lot of this may have been on ff.net...sigh...)

I think I'm being misunderstood here -- I don't CARE that slash stories are homosexual, or even if they are graphic, as long as they are well-done and not just an excuse to write foul-mouthed smut full of dirty words. I do not automatically dismiss ALL slash, but I don't care for that in heterosexual stories either. And I have read FAR too many of those. Give me some concrete examples of these "wonderful" slash stories and maybe I'll change my mind!

For the record, I don't mind stories of a reasonably hot sexual nature AT ALL. I have read MANY in my time -- hell, I've even WRITTEN a few! Though, as it says on my site's guidelines -- I won't accept anything full of dirty words and anatomical description, be it homo- or heterosexual. This does NOT mean that I won't accept hot stories (of any nature) without the blatant pornography as long as they don't talk about "roosters and cats" Show me tender but still hot, I might like it!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>
And for some reason, slash seems to appeal overwhelmingly to the female fans! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I have a theory about this -- what gay man would waste his time writing a story about JOHN and PAUL doing it, when he could write a story about John or Paul and HIMSELF doing it? The same idea that a female fan uses to write HER Mary-Sue stories, I think...just a thought...

------------------
Rooftop Sessions - The Finest In Beatles-Related Fiction. September 2002 Issue Now Up!

"In writing, the difference between the right word and almost the right word is like the difference between lightning and lightning bugs." - Mark Twain

[This Message Has Been Edited By HMVNipper On September 15, 2002 06:36 AM]
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Old Sep 15, 2002, 10:23 AM   #49
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Default Re: The Beatles and \"Slash\"

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By HMVNipper:
This does NOT mean that I won't accept hot stories (of any nature) without the blatant pornography as long as they don't talk about "roosters and cats" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well said!!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>

I have a theory about this -- what gay man would waste his time writing a story about JOHN and PAUL doing it, when he could write a story about John or Paul and HIMSELF doing it? The same idea that a female fan uses to write HER Mary-Sue stories, I think...just a thought...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's probably true. You know, I don't think I've ever read a romance story about a Beatle and a male fan. Does anybody know of any? On second thought, if they're anything like female Mary-Sues I may not want to know...

I guess men can be "Gary Stus". That's one problem with slash, I agree. Many J/P pairings make Paul out to be this whining, frail, fragile person being taken advantage of by a sneering, conniving John. Many slash authors lower Paul to the status of Gary Stu, giving him qualities which he most certainly didn't have.

Oh, and about the stories. If I could figure out how to find them on FF.net, I'd post the link to the one (and for the record, only one) I like. Rotten &@%^$* moderators!

P.S. I had no idea people had such strong opinions about slash!! I respect everyone's opinion, and please, keep on feeling free to express it.


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Old Sep 15, 2002, 01:30 PM   #50
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Default Re: The Beatles and \"Slash\"

I ran into a slash on FanFiction.net
I read a bit of it..and stopped because I didn't know what it was, and I got really distrubed by it, I think Ringo and George...were um..yeah..but it was really GROSS!!!!!!!


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Old Sep 15, 2002, 01:37 PM   #51
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Default Re: The Beatles and \"Slash\"

Anything in this genre is just WAY off-base for me, and I don't like reading it. Maybe it's because, like others in this discussion, I have yet to personally see one that's been tastefully done. I don't doubt that a well-done one exists, I just haven't found any yet.

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Old Sep 15, 2002, 03:29 PM   #52
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Default Re: The Beatles and \"Slash\"

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By HMVNipper:
Slash it not everybody's cuppa...certainly not mine!

I find most of it to be entirely too self-important and angst-ridden, not to mention unrealistic and inconceivable. I don't understand what kind of thrill people get about writing this stuff...and it is always the same...when it involves John/Paul, John's always the aggressor who "tricks" Paul into something...it's nuts.

I guess some people find this stuff plausible -- but for me, it's just silly and not worth my time.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's the way I feel. I don't care for the slash genre at all and it is certainly not MY cuppa tea!


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Old Sep 15, 2002, 03:46 PM   #53
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Default Re: The Beatles and \"Slash\"

I like the way Susan put it, "roosters and cats" meaning vulgar terminology for the human anatomy is deemed unacceptable.

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Then we will remember things we said today. Yeah.
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[This Message Has Been Edited By beatlebangs1964 On September 15, 2002 03:51 PM]
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Old Sep 15, 2002, 05:32 PM   #54
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Default Re: The Beatles and \"Slash\"

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By beatlebangs1964:
I like the way Susan put it, "roosters and cats" meaning vulgar terminology for the human anatomy is deemed unacceptable.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you! Well, it was the best way to say what I meant without using the vulgarities themselves...sometimes necessity is the mother of linguistic invention, I guess....

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"In writing, the difference between the right word and almost the right word is like the difference between lightning and lightning bugs." - Mark Twain
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Old Sep 18, 2002, 09:56 AM   #55
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Default Re: The Beatles and \"Slash\"

I am curious -- what is the slash website?

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Old Sep 18, 2002, 11:07 AM   #56
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Default Re: The Beatles and \"Slash\"

BB--there were a few posted on FF.net, but I don't know how to really access them anymore. I don't know if I'd recommend a website with all Beatle slash--not a pretty picture, if you ask me...

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Old Sep 18, 2002, 11:52 AM   #57
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Default Re: The Beatles and \"Slash\"

Try Googling it, BB...put in the term "Beatles Slash Fiction" into Google and see what you get.

I think MonaMe is right, a lot of the stories were on ff.net and aren't accessible anymore...

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"In writing, the difference between the right word and almost the right word is like the difference between lightning and lightning bugs." - Mark Twain
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Old Sep 18, 2002, 01:13 PM   #58
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Default Re: The Beatles and \"Slash\"

Hey, BB, if you REALLY want to read some slash fiction, I found a site for you. Where did I find it, you ask? On the very reference pages of Beatlelinks.net, actually, under the category of "fan-fiction sites". I had no idea it was there before!

I can't guarantee any of the stories will be any good, but here's the address:
http://www.seventh-seal.com/abbeyway/index2.html

See if you can find us any well-written slash, so we can all see whether or not such a thing exists...

(For the record, I only have that ONE story I liked, and now it's gone...stupid FF.net!!!)

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Old Sep 19, 2002, 12:45 AM   #59
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Default Re: The Beatles and \"Slash\"

Thank you. I admit my curiosity was piqued.

Did the petition we all signed for ff.net do any good? What is the status of it?

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-- Beatles, 1964

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Old Sep 19, 2002, 04:37 PM   #60
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Default Re: The Beatles and \"Slash\"

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By MonaMe577:
(For the record, I only have that ONE story I liked, and now it's gone...stupid FF.net!!!)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Me too. But if the author ever re-posts it, I'll send the link. As was mentioned before, I think stories like this work best if you treat them as a "what-if" type of situation, and that's what this story did. What if one of the Beatles was attracted to another? How would the others react? And what would the consequences be? It's stories like this, and not the mindless smut, that I find interesting in the slash genre.

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