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Old Mar 23, 2005, 06:02 AM   #21
DizzymissLizzy909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss O'Dell
I agree, but I would also add when the more supporting characters are left flat and 2D, especially if they have a role in the story, like Brain, Mal, Neil, and so on. Sometimes they just seem like furntiture,
I love the way you phrased that. That's very true, I think people who were as significant in the Beatles lives, like Sir George, Brian, etc, deserve more than a simple mention in stories.
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Old Mar 23, 2005, 02:12 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by ImaginePeace78
Major historical inaccuracies and bad grammar turn me off of a fan fic.
-Kristi
That is just about right.

Slash is a complete turn-off to me as well. The Beatles were NOT gay, and unfortunately, some of these fics are very graphic and put some really ugly pictures in people's heads. (And being a Paul fan, it triggers my temper to see they usually make Paul the little woman). I read one once (the first and the last, mind you) in which John is gong all over Paul... and I mean, REALLY going over him, under him, above him, you name it, they did it. (Not kidding, really, really graphically, Things like, "Yeh, you love this, don't cha, Paulie, you tart??" AAARGH!!!). While I have no beefs against homosexuals (many friends of mine are), I do have a problem with the innacurate portrayal of REAL charachters with UNREAL personalities... especially if they're going to be so gross about it. Eugh!

But I think that if there's something that certainly makes me just click off is when I see that the story has lines such as "All right you guys, let's eat some cookies and have a few cokes". I'll immediately think of an american cowboy and lose interest. Let's not forget these guys were Scousers from the post-war era. (More like, "right, lads/fellas/mates, let's 'ave some biscuits/butties and a cuppa"). That's what makes some stories stand out over many others; They manage to capture the essence of the Beatles' lingo. Also, I hate it when they picture them as something they are completely not. If I read John saying "Aw, you fellas, I think you're all me best mates in the world, and I just love the way we work together!! Group hug! Love you all, especially you, Paul! thanks so much for supporting me and understanding me more than anyone else in the planet!! You are a hell of a guy!"... Immediate blah! That really wasn't John's way at all!!

Sex...
I use it a lot in my fics, and I have to admit that I do enjoy a good, erotic fic. The Beatles were human, had wives, lovers, groupies, you name it. It would be unreal if they were portrayed as saints. The holy four is the last thing I wanna read about. But also, opening every chapter of the story with "Paul was banging away on X", and reading about Paul and X's sex life alone throughout the whole fic is tedious. They did do many other things as well, you know. Extreme vulgarity when picturing what could otherwise be a hot, sensually tasteful love scene can blow the whole thing away. There is a middle ground.

Fiction is FICTITIOUS, but MUST be blended with realistic elemets to make it good and believable. The only thing about Beatles fics that aren't fictitious are the Beatles themselves, so let's keep them as real as we can.

One last thing... I have an embarassing question.... WHAT THE HELL IS A MARY SUE??
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Old Mar 23, 2005, 02:42 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatleBabe21
when the author makes the Beatles use words like "dat, and yo, and hommie"...
Oh man, that's just.... unsettling, to say the very least.
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Old Mar 23, 2005, 03:21 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cream Tangerine
One last thing... I have an embarassing question.... WHAT THE HELL IS A MARY SUE??
a mary sue fic is one in which the author inputs themselves as either the main character or one of the main characters. the author also gives the mary sue character lots of their own characteristics.

yeah haha i must admit the majority of my fics are mary sue, but i'm careful to distinguish the character from my own personality. a lot of people make that error.

i too, like a lot of you, HATE historical bloopers. please. anyone who has written with me will tell you that i am downright ANAL when researching for a fic. i'm currently writing, what i hope will become one of the great ones (haha), and so far have consulted a few timelines and read 2 books just doing research. people think that part is hard, but it's fun. haha i love reading about the beatles, and i'm educating myself for fanfic writing at the same time.

spelling, yeah, that's an annoyance.

and i'd also have to go along with susan and say that when an author does "character reshaping" with the beatles, that's pretty bad.

also, i'm not a big fan of an overuse of scouser language only because it's hard to read sometimes. but yeah, an occasionally liverpudlian word is excellent :)
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Old Mar 23, 2005, 07:40 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hrddysnt47
also, i'm not a big fan of an overuse of scouser language only because it's hard to read sometimes. but yeah, an occasionally liverpudlian word is excellent :)
Ooh, yeah, I forgot about that one. I hate feeling like I'm reading a foreign language when in reality I'm just reading badly done Scouse. A slangy word or two every once in a while gives it enough character; there's no need to overdo it.
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Old Mar 27, 2005, 08:11 PM   #26
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Amen, Sistah! Poorly written or inaccurate dialect weakens a story considerably.

Quote:
by hrdysn47:

I, too, like a lot of you, HATE historical bloopers. please. anyone who has written with me will tell you that i am downright ANAL when researching for a fic. i'm currently writing, what i hope will become one of the great ones (haha), and so far have consulted a few timelines and read 2 books just doing research. people think that part is hard, but it's fun. haha i love reading about the beatles, and i'm educating myself for fanfic writing at the same time.

spelling, yeah, that's an annoyance.

and i'd also have to go along with susan and say that when an author does "character reshaping" with the beatles, that's pretty bad.
Historical inaccuracies are inexcusable and discredit a story. That one drives me up a tree! I also agree with what Allison has said here.

Tan made some excellent points about accuracy and she expressed my feelings about slash. I personally can't stand the slash genre. On the other hand, I do enjoy a good, well written erotic story. My feelings in writing erotica are as follows:

1. Show respect for acts of love and the human anatomy. Please folks, no cats and roosters!

2. Weird and painful doesn't work for me in any way shape and form. Nothing that is going to involve pain to any person; no sick stuff like necrophilia, zoophilia (animal acts) or crackpottery like that please!

3. Sex as part of a story is one thing. When it becomes the focus of the story, then the story was rather shaky to start with if no other elements, e.g. characters, plot or dialog are included. If a story is just about people's intimacy, then it becomes tiresome and tiring.

3. In conclusion,
Quote:
by Cream Tangerine: Extreme vulgarity when picturing what could otherwise be a hot, sensually tasteful love scene can blow the whole thing away. There is a middle ground.
You said it better than I could have, Tan. I hate vulgarity in terms of sex and the human body and that kind of thing ruins what could be a loving and intimate part of a story.

Oh, yeah. I can't stand Mary-Sues.
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Old Apr 06, 2005, 07:38 AM   #27
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I stop reading when there are too many inaccuracies, or the way the writer is presenting The Beatles just doesnt seem true to their characters, or if the girl and the Beatle cant stop having sex all the time...
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Old Apr 06, 2005, 08:36 AM   #28
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Ditto, Lvr9. That kind of thing just knocks the floor right out from under the story. It becomes a tired, weak tale that I just don't enjoy.
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Old Apr 06, 2005, 08:55 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beatlegirl9977
Ooh, yeah, I forgot about that one. I hate feeling like I'm reading a foreign language when in reality I'm just reading badly done Scouse. A slangy word or two every once in a while gives it enough character; there's no need to overdo it.
I always tell people (and say in my guidelines) that if they can't do dialect perfectly (or nearly so) they should not even attempt it! You can give the flavor and nuance of Liverpool to your Beatles' speech without going over the top, and I absolutely agree with what Tina said above.
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Old Apr 06, 2005, 01:34 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beatlebangs1964
Inaccurate facts is a very funny oxymoron, Milk!
Not to put a too fine point on it,beatlebangs, but I hope you are laughing with Pinky, and not at her. Who here is perfect in usage and sentence construction? I know I am not proficient in Point of View, Ageement, Case and many other fine elements of language. Let me throw Wordiness in there , as well.
So I don't violate the rules, I will address the fanfic issue. I did read most of the posts, and somewhere it was said,and I am paraphrasing here, that the uniqueness of the Beatles experience was fiction-like in its surrealism. I agree with that. I think it is hard to pull off a good fiction piece when the base material seems like fiction. Writing fiction is hard enough without the handicap of the above mentioned elements.
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Old Apr 06, 2005, 02:21 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiliace
So I don't violate the rules, I will address the fanfic issue. I did read most of the posts, and somewhere it was said,and I am paraphrasing here, that the uniqueness of the Beatles experience was fiction-like in its surrealism. I agree with that. I think it is hard to pull off a good fiction piece when the base material seems like fiction. Writing fiction is hard enough without the handicap of the above mentioned elements.
I think many Beatles fan fiction writers would disagree with you, Chiliace -- many people write really finely-crafted examples of the genre BECAUSE of the nature of the base material. I have a large cross-section of them in the archives of my website.

I think the point is more that the Beatles make great fodder for fiction precisely BECAUSE their real story is so far-fetched. And I have said this in some of the panels I have moderated at Beatlefest -- even if you just go by the stereotypes people have (and some still have) about the Beatles -- the cute one, the witty one, the spiritual one and the goofy one -- you have four pretty good literary archetypes with which to work.

Fan fiction IS wish fulfillment, no doubt about it. But it's also a lot of fun, and can (and should) be treated as a legitimate thing. Not every piece of Beatlefic is crap -- and I would like to think that with my website, I have done at least a small part to raise the quality bar!
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Old Apr 06, 2005, 02:59 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by HMVNipper
And I have said this in some of the panels I have moderated at Beatlefest -- even if you just go by the stereotypes people have (and some still have) about the Beatles -- the cute one, the witty one, the spiritual one and the goofy one -- you have four pretty good literary archetypes with which to work.
Exactly. The Beatles' personalities and history are so multifaceted that it's easy to come up with a what-if scenario. Most of us know the life story of each Beatle better than we might know some members of our own families, so it's really easy to take an event in their lives and run with it in a fictional sense.
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Old Apr 06, 2005, 06:07 PM   #33
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[quote=chiliace]Not to put a too fine point on it,beatlebangs, but I hope you are laughing with Pinky, and not at her. [quote]

Chill, chiliace! I was laughing WITH Milk because I saw humor in the phraseology. That's why I put the joker face up so (hopefully) everybody would know I was kidding and found the term ironic and humorous!
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Old Apr 06, 2005, 10:21 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HMVNipper
I t
(Full quote above)
Fan fiction IS wish fulfillment, no doubt about it. But it's also a lot of fun, and can (and should) be treated as a legitimate thing. Not every piece of Beatlefic is crap -- and I would like to think that with my website, I have done at least a small part to raise the quality bar!
Me thinks you protestest to much , HMV. My point was that the good fan-fic has to be super good to be considered well-crafted at all. But since my premise is regected, I can well conceive the response this anaemic note will bring.
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Old Apr 06, 2005, 10:58 PM   #35
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[quote=beatlebangs1964][quote=chiliace]Not to put a too fine point on it,beatlebangs, but I hope you are laughing with Pinky, and not at her.
Quote:

Chill, chiliace! I was laughing WITH Milk because I saw humor in the phraseology. That's why I put the joker face up so (hopefully) everybody would know I was kidding and found the term ironic and humorous!
I don't know that I deserve being told to chill. Who likes that?
It's hard to read attitude. I'll give you the benifit of doubt, although that could be read as condescending. It's not. On the initial reading of your post, I looked at the joker face and thought, "You can smile,smile, and still be a villain." Pehaps people rely on those faces to much. I really don't know.
Peace.
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Old Apr 07, 2005, 03:32 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiliace
Me thinks you protestest to much , HMV. My point was that the good fan-fic has to be super good to be considered well-crafted at all. But since my premise is regected, I can well conceive the response this anaemic note will bring.
Chiliace, I wasn't arguing with you. I was just stating my different point of view on your take. I'm not rejecting what you're saying at all, perhaps I misunderstood you. I don't understand what you mean by you can "well conceive the response" I would make. No one's arguing here...
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Old Apr 07, 2005, 03:39 AM   #37
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[quote=chiliace][quote=beatlebangs1964]
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiliace
Not to put a too fine point on it,beatlebangs, but I hope you are laughing with Pinky, and not at her.
I don't know that I deserve being told to chill. Who likes that?
It's hard to read attitude. I'll give you the benifit of doubt, although that could be read as condescending. It's not. On the initial reading of your post, I looked at the joker face and thought, "You can smile,smile, and still be a villain." Pehaps people rely on those faces to much. I really don't know.
Peace.
I don't understand what is going on here. People who have been around the forums for a while (yourself included) are used to BB's "ironic" comments every so often. That post of BB's is old; Pinky didn't seem to be upset by it when it was new, and as far as I know she still isn't, as she made no further comment on what BB said...and yet here you are, accusing BB of being a smiling villain!

Please, I'm asking as the moderator here -- let's not have arguments. No one's challenging you or being nasty to you -- you stated your point of view about fanfic, and some of us have slightly different ones. It's valid, it can be discussed. That's all that's going on here...no one's insulting anyone. Honestly.
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Old Apr 07, 2005, 05:42 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HMVNipper
[That post of BB's is old; Pinky didn't seem to be upset by it when it was new, and as far as I know she still isn't, as she made no further comment on what BB said...and yet here you are, accusing BB of being a smiling villain!

I hesitate to get involved in this...but as I am included already, I will put in my two cents. I must admit I had my doubts to the 'hidden meaning' in BB's post....and I chose to give her the benefit of the doubt because, quite simply, I feel my comments concerning fan fiction here at Beatlelinks are under the microscope. And because the joker smile was an attempt to make it non confrontational.

I do believe also that chiliace used that post as a springboard to make the point on his views of fanfiction....and I certainly agree with him that it is even more crucial to have excellent writing skills to make fanfiction any kind of a literary gem, based on the usual point of writings.

Thanks chiliace for the support
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Old Apr 07, 2005, 05:56 AM   #39
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I'll tell you what stops me reading a fanfic...passive voice!
Doing is far more effective than telling.
Though the writer may be proud of the volume of words to page, in this case quantity is not a precursor to quality! (or enjoyment for the reader)
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Old Apr 07, 2005, 10:28 AM   #40
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There was no 'hidden meaning,' Milk and I resent the implication. I just responded to something that I thought was funny, that's all. There was nothing condescending in any of my posts that was not what I meant in any way, shape or form. I have never at any time scrutinized your comments on this forum or any other.

Chiliace, I deeply resent the smiling villain comments as I am nobody's villain. I'd rather be told to chill than be accused of villainy. Nobody was insulting anybody and certainly not intentionally.

Susan, I want to thank you. I also support what you said about keeping this on topic, which is the different takes people have on fan fic.
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