Beatlefest Changes Name - Legal Proceedings Instituted - Page 2

JDanRyan · Oct 14, 2002, 07:52 PM

I don't know how helpful this might be, but if anyone else wants to try and get to the bottom of it, the rules for the whole trademark mess are found in the United States Code Annotated, Title 15, Sub-Section 1051-1127, aka the Lanham Act, a link to which can be found on the ToC at the page http://www.intelproplaw.com/Trademark/

This is part of the search effort to understand better just what's up here that I'm looking at, but my resources are spead so thin right now that it might be a while before I can give it my full attention, so I offer this link for those with more time so that a better understanding of this can be gleamed by the community.

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"Democracies die behind closed doors" - Judge Damon J. Keith

"Like Kurasawa I make mad films
Okay I don't make films
but if I did they'd have a Samurai"
-Barenaked Ladies

EasternBird · Oct 16, 2002, 01:43 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote:<HR>Originally Posted By beatlegirl9977:
They've pursued this for FIVE YEARS? Jeeez...Yeah, I do wonder what this means for the rest of us and our websites.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Me too...first that Beatles lyrics site was forced to remove its lyrics & album images, and now a fanfest is being forced to change its name after 30 YEARS?!?

It seems to me that the reason Apple wanted the name changed is that "Beatlefest" implies that the convention is officially endorsed by the Beatles themselves. It was always obvious, to me at least, that Beatlefest was not *officially* endorsed by or affiliated with the Beatles or Apple. As long as this was made clear by Lapidos and the 'Fest organizers, I don't understand how Apple could have a problem with it.

I'm a bit worried about what these developments will mean for other websites. How much material can Apple claim under the Beatles trademark? I can sort of understand the limitations on copyrighted material such as mp3s and lyrics, but I just hope we don't reach a point where any image or mention of the "Beatles" is prohibited.

(I shudder to think about what this will mean for "Stop Worrying!" I'd better come up with a backup plan for when the C&D arrives.)

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There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry

Stop Worrying: A Tribute To Nothing In Particular

beatlebangs1964 · Oct 16, 2002, 01:54 PM

I think Bird put this perfectly. As long as it was clear from the outset this was not endorsed by the Beatles themselves and all the other legal guidelines and expectations were met, it really does seem bizarre to trot out this matter as a legal issue now.

There's more to this than meets the eye.

Since the name is getting changed, these are possibilities:

Beatcon (short for Beatle convention, inspired by Lisha Goldberg, Rooftop Sessions author extraordinaire)

Fab4 Fest

Fab4 Fun Fest

Moptop Mania

Moptop Meeting

I don't know, but there are a lot of folks here who could think of something!

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Then we will remember things we said today. Yeah.
-- Beatles, 1964

With a love like that, you know you should be glad, yeah, yeah, yeah!
-- Beatles, 1963

Read www.rooftopsessions.com for high caliber Beatles fan fiction.

BB1964

lennon4 · Oct 16, 2002, 07:23 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote:<HR>Originally Posted By EasternBird:
Stop Worrying: A Tribute To Nothing In Particular<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL!

-lennon4

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~All You Need Is Love~

*Need Beatles Art? E-mail Me!*

lennon4 · Oct 17, 2002, 07:50 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote:<HR>Originally Posted By beatlebangs1964:
I don't know, but there are a lot of folks here who could think of something!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Frankly, I doubt Mark cares what we think he should re-name his company.

-lennon4

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Imagine. (it's here)

~All You Need Is Love~

*Need Beatles Art? E-mail Me!*

beatlebangs1964 · Oct 18, 2002, 10:08 AM

I doubt he cares about very much outside what affects him personally, especially so these days.

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Then we will remember things we said today. Yeah.
-- Beatles, 1964

With a love like that, you know you should be glad, yeah, yeah, yeah!
-- Beatles, 1963

Read www.rooftopsessions.com for high caliber Beatles fan fiction.

BB1964

HMVNipper · Oct 18, 2002, 10:57 AM

Can't say I blame him, either.

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Rooftop Sessions - The Finest In Beatles-Related Fiction. October 2002 Issue Now Up!

"In writing, the difference between the right word and almost the right word is like the difference between lightning and lightning bugs." - Mark Twain

LivingInTheMaterialWorld · Oct 18, 2002, 07:07 PM

This reminds me of a lawsuit Prince has filed against a fan who posted mp3's on his site. The fan says he is "freeing the music", but is it really his 2 free in the first place?

Anyway, Prince has much tighter and obsessive control over his image and his music than The Beatles do. I agree this is a bit silly since he's used it 4 thirty years but...keep in mind that there ARE artists out there who r worse.

And I love Prince..so what does that tell ya.

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"The proof of the pudding is in the eating!" ~George

dav-here · Oct 18, 2002, 11:38 PM

Perhaps this is "instant karma" getting back at Mark Lapidos for snubbing us West Coast Beatlefans for the last couple of years!!

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"No, actually, we're just good friends."

Danoota64 · Oct 22, 2002, 04:42 AM

By the way, I got my tix in the mail for the Boston fest and on them, it says FestForBeatlesFans, and the sheet of paper with all the info also has the new name.

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"Although I laugh and I act like a clown/Beneath this mask I am wearing a frown." - I'M A LOSER (64)

lennon4 · Oct 22, 2002, 08:38 AM

wish I could go...

-lennon4

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Imagine. (it's here)

~All You Need Is Love~

*Need Beatles Art? E-mail Me!*

beatlegirl9977 · Oct 22, 2002, 03:35 PM

My friend Tim and I just came up with another name for the 'fest:

"The-Band-Named-Like-Small-German-Cars-with-an-A-not-an-E Fest"

So then it'd be safe from both Apple and Volkswagen

(I know, goofy...but my brain is fried at this time of the day!)

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Beatlegirl's World -- Home of fan fics "The Beatles: Live at 12 Cold Creek Street" and "Days in the Life"

lennon4 · Oct 22, 2002, 04:58 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote:<HR>Originally Posted By beatlegirl9977:
"The-Band-Named-Like-Small-German-Cars-with-an-A-not-an-E Fest"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try announcing that over and over, Teri Hammert! LOL...

-lennon4

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Imagine. (it's here)

~All You Need Is Love~

*Need Beatles Art? E-mail Me!*

fab4collector · Oct 26, 2002, 10:00 PM

I don't mean to be defending Apple here, but the fact is, pursuing Lapidos to stop using "Beatlefest" is likely not a personal decision by Neil Aspinall or any of the Beatles - but something their legal staff HAS to do to defend their tradename.

If you don't actively defend your tradename, you can potentially lose it. So while Apple may not really care about some band in Idaho called "Beatles Forever", if they find out about it, they have to persue it legally or they could set a precedent that could allow anyone (even large companies) to start marketing products with the word "Beatle" in it. That's why the popular Beatles soundalike/lookalike band caled "1964 - As the Beatles" had to change their name to "1964 - The Tribute".

Lapidos can use "The Fest for Beatles Fans" because he's NOT attempting to claim ownership of the tradename "Beatles" nor is he creating an entirely new tradename with the word "Beatle" imbedded into it. He's simply referring to a well-known public entity called The Beatles.

Most people may not know that in the late '70s, Steve Jobs had to ask Apple for permission to call his company Apple Computers. Apple (the Beatles) agreed as long as Apple Computer stuck to computers and didn't start making musical-related products in any way. In around 1984 or so, George Harrison was reading a music magazine on a flight when he noticed an add for a new Apple Music Midi Interface from Apple Computers. He gave the ad to the Apple legal staff who contacted Apple Computers to remind them of the agreement, and the product name was quickly changed to remove any reference to Apple in the title.

Now, what's really puzzling to me is just how long Apple waited to pursue "Beatlefest" (1997, it appears). Clearly, one could argue that Apple has known about "Beatlefest" for many years and has allowed it to operate with that tradename for years without any legal pursuit. And their inaction can thus be interpreted as an endorsement. So I think Mark has a good case to argue here, but I suspect Apple has deeper pockets and I don't blame him for abandoning the name "Beatlefest" as the legal battle could be very expensive.

As for websites that use the name "Beatles" in them, the laws are still forming. But the Anti-Cybersquatting Law makes it very clear that anyone who puts up a web site with the specific intent to make a profit by using someone else's tradename (or even a similarly spelled name) is open to legal action. That's why you can't put up a site called amizon.com to sell books. I mean, you can try, but you'll likely have a legal team at your pretty darn quick.

Well, my apologies for being so long-winded. I just wanted to explain a little of what I've learned - as I own a small business that recently had to pursue legal action against a start-up company that tried to use a name very similar to my own company's. And even though I never really wanted to pursue them as I wasn't really worried about them hurting my business, the fact is, I HAD to pursue action or I would've set a precedent that could potentially allow ANY company to use may tradename - even a competitor.

Hope this all makes sense. It's a sad, litigious world we live in.

- Roger

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lennon4 · Oct 27, 2002, 04:21 PM

Welcome Fab4Collector!

-lennon4

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Imagine. (it's here)

~All You Need Is Love~

*Need Beatles Art? E-mail Me!*

beatlebangs1964 · Oct 28, 2002, 04:49 AM

Welcome, Roger!

Thank you for providing legal insight as to trademarked names and products. I found it interesting and yeah, as you pointed out, it is sad that we as a whole have become a very litiginous society.

Welcome!

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Then we will remember things we said today. Yeah.
-- Beatles, 1964

With a love like that, you know you should be glad, yeah, yeah, yeah!
-- Beatles, 1963

Read www.rooftopsessions.com for high caliber Beatles fan fiction.

BB1964

fab4collector · Oct 28, 2002, 08:27 AM

Thanks! Glad to have found your discussion group. You guys seem to have an excellent group here - really solid discussions of interesting stuff.

I've been collecting Beatles rare records and memorabilia for over 25 years now. Do you have a section for discussion collectibles? I'd be more than happy to help folks with appraising values, etc.

Looking forward to more discussons with you all!

Cheers,

Rodger

SF4-EVER · Oct 28, 2002, 03:39 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote:<HR>Originally Posted By fab4collector:
Thanks! Glad to have found your discussion group. You guys seem to have an excellent group here - really solid discussions of interesting stuff.

I've been collecting Beatles rare records and memorabilia for over 25 years now. Do you have a section for discussion collectibles? I'd be more than happy to help folks with appraising values, etc.

Looking forward to more discussons with you all!

Cheers,

Rodger<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Welcome to Beatlelinks, Rodger!

Hope you have a fab time here.

IMO, the Main Discussion forum would probably be the best place to talk about collectables.

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bearkat77 · Oct 28, 2002, 08:06 PM

Welcome to Beatlelinks, Rodger! A splendid time is guaranteed for all.

<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote:<HR>Originally Posted By fab4collector:
As for websites that use the name "Beatles" in them, the laws are still forming. But the Anti-Cybersquatting Law makes it very clear that anyone who puts up a web site with the specific intent to make a profit by using someone else's tradename (or even a similarly spelled name) is open to legal action.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hope not, for my sake. I have to pay to keep my sites up and running. No profit on my part.

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