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Old Jan 25, 2006, 05:50 AM   #1
gberman
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Default Phil Spector and "All Things Must Pass"

I don't expect too many people to agree with me, but I never liked Phil Spector's production on the "All Things Must Pass" album. I also never bought the whole "wall of sound" nonsense, either. What the hell is a wall of sound, anyway? A lot of blaring, sustain chords that practically drown out everything else in the recording?
Some songs on "ATMP" survive without too much damage, such as "I'd Have You Anytime" and "Beware of Darkness." But the production is especially irritating on "Awaiting On You All", which, to my ears, is a cacophonous mess. Too noisy, too over-the-top. Compare it to the version George and the band performed at the Concert For Bangladesh, where you can actually hear the lyrics!
"All Things Must Pass" may be one of George's best albums as far as the songs themselves go, but I think albums like "33 1/3" and those that followed it are much more pleasing in their overall sound.
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Old Jan 25, 2006, 06:28 AM   #2
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I agree with you.
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Old Jan 25, 2006, 07:22 AM   #3
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I think Phil's "Wall of sound" reflected his persona. Overblown and full of himself.
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Old Jan 25, 2006, 06:52 PM   #4
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I wish that Olivia and Dhanni would release an 'All Things Must Pass - Naked'.
You know....De-Spectorized just like Let It Be - Naked.

Whaddya all think????
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Old Jan 25, 2006, 07:11 PM   #5
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Sounds good.
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Old Jan 25, 2006, 07:29 PM   #6
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That's a great idea, but since it was already re-released just a couple of years ago, it's doubtful it will be released yet again without the Spector production. Too bad.
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Old Jan 25, 2006, 07:51 PM   #7
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What a bummer.
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Old Jan 25, 2006, 08:16 PM   #8
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Yeah, but we can all dream... Remastered and De-Spectorized...I'd definately buy that again!!!
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Old Jan 25, 2006, 09:09 PM   #9
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I don't agree to all these critical notes.

Maybe you guys don't know Phil that well, but from his early 60's work with artists like Ike and Tina Turner, his mass productive sound is called "The Wall Of Sound". It is tambourines.. it is echo...it is more than one drum...it is Phil Spector and it sold millions of records.

George was very clear when he choose Phil Spector to help him produce the album. He actually asked him and sent him some tapes to listen to on whichPhil wrote some early comments before they even started the recording. I have a copy of part of that correspondence somewhere which I got from the web long ago.

But it was not like George had no say in it? It was exactly the oposite and wasn't the world happily surprised when the album came out.

Sure, at the time when it was released I also sometimes had to listen well to what he was singing on some songs like "Awaiting On You All" but still find that the beauty of the album. I love the songs for the total of what they are and when I want to know what he is singing there are these things called Lyric pages which are included.

I think if you wait for a Naked album you will not be satisfied, however there are dozens of Bootleg albums with all types of Naked versions, so I would suggest those who want the Non-Phil songs that you get a few of those bootlegs. Like from "Art Of Dying" there is a range of different demos from just the accoustic guitar to the introduction of the electric guitar and then some more instruments but not the horns and then a few with the horns, so...it's all out there, I play the Art Of Dying demos all the time..the instrumental ones with the electric guitar riff are sensational.

So do not dream, but wake up and get those demos. That's what they are there for.
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Old Jan 26, 2006, 03:08 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FPSHOT
I don't agree to all these critical notes.

Maybe you guys don't know Phil that well, but from his early 60's work with artists like Ike and Tina Turner, his mass productive sound is called "The Wall Of Sound". It is tambourines.. it is echo...it is more than one drum...it is Phil Spector and it sold millions of records.

George was very clear when he choose Phil Spector to help him produce the album. He actually asked him and sent him some tapes to listen to on whichPhil wrote some early comments before they even started the recording. I have a copy of part of that correspondence somewhere which I got from the web long ago.

But it was not like George had no say in it? It was exactly the oposite and wasn't the world happily surprised when the album came out.

Sure, at the time when it was released I also sometimes had to listen well to what he was singing on some songs like "Awaiting On You All" but still find that the beauty of the album. I love the songs for the total of what they are and when I want to know what he is singing there are these things called Lyric pages which are included.

I think if you wait for a Naked album you will not be satisfied, however there are dozens of Bootleg albums with all types of Naked versions, so I would suggest those who want the Non-Phil songs that you get a few of those bootlegs. Like from "Art Of Dying" there is a range of different demos from just the accoustic guitar to the introduction of the electric guitar and then some more instruments but not the horns and then a few with the horns, so...it's all out there, I play the Art Of Dying demos all the time..the instrumental ones with the electric guitar riff are sensational.

So do not dream, but wake up and get those demos. That's what they are there for.
Arround the time when ATMP was re-released didn't George himself say that he was tempted to take off some of the overly-lavish arrangements in it ? I think it's the liner notes of the 2004 ATMP.
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Old Jan 26, 2006, 03:09 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwbarnes
I wish that Olivia and Dhanni would release an 'All Things Must Pass - Naked'.
You know....De-Spectorized just like Let It Be - Naked.

Whaddya all think????
I'm with you on that... then people can compare and prefer the one they find better.
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Old Jan 26, 2006, 03:13 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gberman
I don't expect too many people to agree with me, but I never liked Phil Spector's production on the "All Things Must Pass" album. I also never bought the whole "wall of sound" nonsense, either. What the hell is a wall of sound, anyway? A lot of blaring, sustain chords that practically drown out everything else in the recording?
Some songs on "ATMP" survive without too much damage, such as "I'd Have You Anytime" and "Beware of Darkness." But the production is especially irritating on "Awaiting On You All", which, to my ears, is a cacophonous mess. Too noisy, too over-the-top. Compare it to the version George and the band performed at the Concert For Bangladesh, where you can actually hear the lyrics!
"All Things Must Pass" may be one of George's best albums as far as the songs themselves go, but I think albums like "33 1/3" and those that followed it are much more pleasing in their overall sound.
I agree with you, on some of the songs, it's not to bad, but on some others like ''Awaiting on you all'', it's so over-produced... with so many instruments that you can hardly make make out... the instruments (!),

... not to mention George's own vocal !

Further, George couldn't have been so very crazy about that style, as none of his later albums even come close to being as over-produces.... quite the contrary even.
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Old Jan 26, 2006, 06:40 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABCKO
Arround the time when ATMP was re-released didn't George himself say that he was tempted to take off some of the overly-lavish arrangements in it ? I think it's the liner notes of the 2004 ATMP.
That is true, however there is a difference between taking off some and going naked, also with music LOL.
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Old Jan 26, 2006, 06:47 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABCKO
I agree with you, on some of the songs, it's not to bad, but on some others like ''Awaiting on you all'', it's so over-produced... with so many instruments that you can hardly make make out... the instruments (!),

... not to mention George's own vocal !
For that we have The Concert for Bangla Desh version, and several bootlegs... it's all there...

Quote:
Further, George couldn't have been so very crazy about that style, as none of his later albums even come close to being as over-produces.... quite the contrary even.
It still depends on what one calls Over-Produced... if you mean too many instruments, just count the many guitarists George got in to play accoustic guitars on All Things Must Pass, Peter Frampton, Badfinger, George...

And play a song like "Try Some Buy Some" which is also full of sound which makes it just part of that particular song about drugs. And I would also say that Somewhere In England has quite some keyboards.

I love the sound, so it is just part of the discography as in this cases George was fine with way back in 1970. Yes he did say later that he would take some off in case he would do it again, and My Sweet Lord is an example of how one in 2000 can see an own composition from 1969, but ask any musician if in 2000 he still would record a 1969 song in the same way and you will be surprised. So, it all flows with time, in my opinion.
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Old Jan 26, 2006, 06:51 AM   #15
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FPSHOT, I have herad the demos and bootleg stuff like Beware Of ABCKO and Songs For Patti but the quality is what's lacking in those. That's why I would want to buy a Naked version of All Things Must Pass to hear them in good quality.

I understand the Phil Spector thing and the Wall of Sound and I am a fan, but for simplicity's sake, I would like a Naked version of All Things.

I mean, Spector didn't do a whole Wall of Sound for John's stuff....
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Old Jan 26, 2006, 07:06 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwbarnes
FPSHOT, I have herad the demos and bootleg stuff like Beware Of ABCKO and Songs For Patti but the quality is what's lacking in those. That's why I would want to buy a Naked version of All Things Must Pass to hear them in good quality.
There are some pretty good ones out there.

"The making of ATMP" has very good sound quality
"ATMP" Acetates has very good sound quality

I would not get your hopes up for a Naked official album, at least not for long, I don't think it is on the agenda.
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Old Jan 26, 2006, 03:49 PM   #17
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I don't think another 'Naked' album would be a good idea. And please drop that awful title already!

I believe the production for All Things Must Pass was just what suited the songs better. The lyrics are gracious but always say something important, and thus the album sounds solemn and precious. I like it. Perhaps in "Awaiting On You All" is a little bit over the top, and that must be why I like that song but I never quite LIKED it with capital letters.

I do like, and love, "The Ballad Of Sir Frankie Crisp (Let It Roll)", however, and I don't think there's a more matching production than the one used by Spector in there. I believe it's his biggest triumph: George sings about the writings found in the dark spaces inside Friar Park, about ancient English servants, and about old England in general... and we get the picture with the production.

It's a nice discussion anyway.
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Old Jan 26, 2006, 05:02 PM   #18
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I am not a big fan of the production on All Things Must Pass but I think what Phil did with Isn't It A Pity(version 1) is spot on.
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Old Jan 26, 2006, 09:32 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkhorse
I don't think another 'Naked' album would be a good idea. And please drop that awful title already!
Really nice you feel that way too.. apart from the title... the idea to strip it down... no way...it was George's album at the time and his break through and apart from having all the bootleg recordings from the songs which are such a gift to have, I would not want them to touch the album anymore.. and I am sure they won't.

Yes, Let It Roll is a great example and it is in a way so much "George" how it took me years to identify what he says with that low voice... "Ohhh Sir Frankie Crissssp" which in fact is quite logical but silly me took years to find it out... which in it's way is cool... what if you have all in one time.. it would be boring huh..

Like on that song you hear the pedal steel guitar mixed quite to the back as if it is some other part of Friar Park... and I love that sound..
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Old Jan 27, 2006, 04:06 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FPSHOT
Really nice you feel that way too.. apart from the title... the idea to strip it down... no way...it was George's album at the time.
Well the case between this and Let It Be couldn't be more different. George wanted All Things Must Pass to sound what it does sound like, it's not like he found 'later on in the process' that it was sounding different from the way it should have sounded. So to strip the arrangements down would be against his desire.

We have the bootleg recordings and perhaps if in the future a some sort of 'George Anthology' comes up, we might have more chances to hear the songs as they were played in the studio. And even some acoustic demos like those famous ones for "Beautiful Girl" (ah da da da da da da) and other unreleased songs like "Window Window" or "Cosmic Empire". But everything in its time I guess.

I was thinking last night that all the legend about All Things Must Pass being one of the greatest albums of all time wouldn't have been like that... if it wasn't for Phil Spector. I'm sorry to be so contrary to the opinion of the opener of this post, but that's what I feel. The most important thing, and what made this album big, were the songs, which were all top quality. But the production was another (very) important component.
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