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Old Aug 12, 2011, 08:08 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by beatlebangs1964 View Post
It is not for me to decide who deserves what.

But that's what partaking in a democracy is BB? What alternative... oligarchy?
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 08:20 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by hibgal View Post
Not FP but the answer seems to be - because they could. Look, there's been a lot of discussion in UK about the reasons for the riots and looting, and nearly everyone agrees it's not about the killing of the one man or even police brutality. Some wants to blame it on the excess spending of government figures, others on unemployment, the increased secularism, poor upbringing, lack of education or the breakdown of family values while others consider it business as usual and point to that street riots are a periodically recurring phenomenon in Britain. Nobody seems to know what or who to blame except that somebody else is responsible.
I think ALOT of people ARE saying it has alot to do with police brutality/violence and race:

From a British MP!!:

"Well, look. When a young, black man loses his life at the hands of the police in an area like mine, that is a major, major event, and the community has questions to ask and wants answers for sure. That then turned or escalated into some unbelievable that is NOW SPARKING RIOTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY"
(my capitalisation for effect)

So you are wrong to say nobody seems to know who is to blame or isnt pointing fingers..i think ultimately it all comes from much higher up, this could even be a subconcious spinoff from the outrage of the News of the world issue and peoples disillusionment and outrage with the police, government and media over the scandal (on a very subconcious level)..Also Camerons Police and Welfare cuts..couldnt come at a worse time huh?! Also the guy and his officials, even the London mayor chose to remain on holiday while London was burning, until they couldnt any longer.. Shows such great leadership! Guess thats what happens when your all off on lavish overseas holidays funded by the taxpayer yet you continue to cut police and other social resources..Maybe , just maybe im suggesting the British Government has their priorities a little wrong here..

It will be bye bye david cameron next election..
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Last edited by CWW : Aug 12, 2011 at 08:23 PM.
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 12:24 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by CWW View Post
i cant believe some people are saying this has NOTHING to do with race..the looters and alot of people have simply jumped on the band wagon and maybe that has very little to do with race, but the original (peaceful) protest and perhaps some of the bigger escalations stem from the institutionalised racism deeply within the police, government and even society.. This is just a spilling over. Before anyone says how dare i say their is deep seated racism in the police and authorities, just look at the news of the world scandal to see how deep the corruption ran (and runs) into the police force and even right up to David it Such a stretch? really?? if something is so corrupt, so wrong it is RIDDLED and frought with rot and contaminated..That permeates and trickles right down to the lowest, street levels..

Even British MP's are warning this could turn into a race war, already their are whites attacking whites, blacks attacking whites, all sorts attacking Asians/Indians..Sure some of it is loooting/violence for the sake of it but ALOT of it is based on prejudice and division..THATS WHY YOU HAVE GANGS OF 15 WHITE KIDS beating up an Indian guy or robbing a store, and then similar gangs of BLACKS doing the same thing together..

I saw an interview with a black teenager who was set upon and was sarcastically apologising for being a "black kid" where he lives..

I guess people that are so quick to judge and be experts on this should go and spend just an hour there amongst it all and see for themselves what is going on

Stop hey whats that sound..
You got it, CWW!

The bandwagon jumpers....oooh my WORD that just annoys me so much. I bet if someone had gone and asked 10 of the thugs/looters/kids out of control on one of the nights this was all going on what they were feeling so outraged about, at least half of them wouldn't be able to tell you. The name Mark Duggan probably means nothing to most of the kids involved in this. We have children of 9 being involved and a child of 12 has been sentenced. I know times have changed in 20 years since I was that age but really, do children of that age have the mental and emotional maturity to rise up in that way as a form of protest? YES they have the right but do they have the understanding? I would think that it would be more as a way to get some cool new stuff for free. SO yeah - I think very few of the people going wild during the week were doing so with the actual reason there in their mind. For the most part, it was a free for all.

And this was turning into a racial start with, it sort of was BUT that is beside the point really because after those Asian guys were killed inm Birmingham, it took on a new thing. There have been racial problems brewing in that part of the country inn particular for YEARS and something like this is what could easily turn it in to something very very dangerous.

Racism IS an issue in this country. In this case, by the time it got down to the looters, I think the fact that the shot man was black had lost it's drive for anti-racist action and it was about something else - immediate and personal gain. The violence that then resulted turned it further into something racial.

Either way things have calmed down now and WOW the reports on who some of these kids are are very interesting. The Daily Mail has a load of CCTV pictures up for people to look at and ID looters from.
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Old Aug 14, 2011, 01:24 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Lucy View Post
Either way things have calmed down now and WOW the reports on who some of these kids are are very interesting. The Daily Mail has a load of CCTV pictures up for people to look at and ID looters from.
I'm glad to hear things have calmed down over there. You and your family please stay safe. :)
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Old Aug 14, 2011, 01:40 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Rellevart View Post
I'm glad to hear things have calmed down over there. You and your family please stay safe. :)
Thanks Rell, yeah we're staying well away from trouble!
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Old Aug 14, 2011, 02:09 PM   #66
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((hugs)) Lucy to you and the family, hope things stay calm in London....
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Old Aug 15, 2011, 09:24 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Hari's Chick View Post
True to an extent. But the middle class is vanishing in America. I see many factors contributing to this trend- the main factor being greed. Major corporations have moved jobs overseas where they can pay pennies on the dollar they would be required to pay a minimun wage American. To increase profits, they moved factories, etc. So "made in America" is rarely seen on anything these days, compared to what it once was.

Also, the shift in values in the 1970's turned things a bit upside down. Divorce rates rose, women went back to work in droves but were paid .60 on the dollar in terms of pay. Where in the 1950's it was mostly men supporting a family, one income, everything changed. Now, there were many double-income families, some traditional men-supported families, and some women supported families. Minorites were paid less, and women minorities far less. This is when I see the division really beginning. Rents could raise because of double income families. That would increasingly marginalize single women and minorities. The gap began to grow.

Then in the 1980's and 1990's we saw companies downsizing. Technology and the globalization of the world markets widened the gap.

Legislature argued that helping the big companies stay as big as possible was advisable ... to support the middle and lower classes... but that was just lip service. All the jobs were going overseas. Our country did no long term planning.

Or... what one person is entitled to receive (social security for veterans, as an example) is kept to a bare minimum, so another person's investments can provide them luxuries they really do not deserve, need, and who's stock broker worked for.

It's an oldie but a goodie... the book "America: What Went Wrong." It speaks of how senators can have zillion dollar chairs we taxpayers pay for while children starve and have no health care.

You cannot multiply spiritual wealth by hoarding material wealth.

When the middle class begins to disappear, so do the cultural factors associated with it: educational opportunities, occupational motivators, feelings, beliefs, and self esteem of a nation. I think having a middle class, a strong middle class, is the backbone of a nation and without it, everything goes to h-e- double toothpicks. The youth see no point in education because there are no opportunities. The wealthy can go from excess to homelessness with a stock market failure. There IS no stability without a middle class... no point for lower classes to aspire to and nothing for the wealthy to fall back into, need be.

My .02 cents.
Originally Posted by darkhorse23 View Post
Good analysis Hari's Chick. Your 2 cents is well thought out and welcome.

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Old Aug 21, 2011, 08:21 AM   #68
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Wrong thread! Please delete

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Old Aug 26, 2011, 09:35 AM   #69
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Well said, Hari's Chick.
With a love like that, you know you should be glad, yeah, yeah, yeah!-- Beatles, 1963

If I seem to act unkind, it's only me, it's not my mind. -- George Harrison, 1966
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