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Old Nov 22, 2003, 12:54 PM   #1
Johnny Lover
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Default John\'s Ashes

What happened to John's ashes? Does Yoko have them or were they scattered somewhere?
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Old Nov 23, 2003, 03:37 AM   #2
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Default Re: John\'s Ashes

There are two stories that I know of re John's ashes. I'm not sure which is true, if either.

1) Half the ashes were scattered in New York and half in Liverpool. (This is the first story I heard, years ago.)

2) Yoko has the ashes and intends to have her own mixed with them when she dies and then have them scattered. (A reasonable theory too, and quite the kind of thing Yoko would do.)

No one is actually sure -- only Yoko (and probably Sean) knows about the disposition of the ashes.

(Since this is very specifically about John, I'm going to move it to Menlove Ave. -- perhaps someone else knows something I don't and would be more likely to see this topic there...)

[size="1"][ Nov 23, 2003, 04:38 AM: Message Edited By: HMVNipper ][/size]
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Old Nov 23, 2003, 04:08 PM   #3
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Default Re: John\'s Ashes

I also once heard a rumor about where John's ashes are. I heard that Yoko keeps them in a container (an urn, Tupperware, who knows?) underneath her bed. Why she would keep them there is beyond me, but it's only a rumor. Probably not true.
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Old Nov 24, 2003, 12:48 PM   #4
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Default Re: John\'s Ashes

In Julian's Behind the Music, he said that at first Yoko had John in an urn on the fireplace's mantle place.

Then I heard that he's under her bed. And then I heard that she scattered him in an undisclosed location in Liverpool (I wouldn't be surprised if it was in Strawberry Fields).

For all I know, he might be in the planet of Ork [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
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Old Nov 24, 2003, 11:34 PM   #5
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Default Re: John\'s Ashes

Adding to the rumors...when I took a private guided tour of Liverpool, the guide thought that his ashes were spread over Strawberry Fields. I think that was purely his speculation though.
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Old Nov 25, 2003, 07:32 AM   #6
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Default Re: John\'s Ashes

Quote:
Originally Posted By onosideboards:
Adding to the rumors...when I took a private guided tour of Liverpool, the guide thought that his ashes were spread over Strawberry Fields. I think that was purely his speculation though.
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Yes, I think that's probably speculation -- you should hear some of the stupid things I have heard tourguides say in Strawberry Fields here in NYC -- I have actually heard SEVERAL of them say that John is buried under the mosaic, which is just plain insane!
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Old Nov 25, 2003, 02:21 PM   #7
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Default Re: John\'s Ashes

I always thought Yoko had him on the mantlepiece...
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Old Nov 27, 2003, 10:36 AM   #8
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Default Re: John\'s Ashes

I guess we'll never know...
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Old Nov 27, 2003, 10:37 AM   #9
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Default Re: John\'s Ashes

Thanks, though!
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Old Nov 28, 2003, 04:04 AM   #10
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Default Re: John\'s Ashes

I would like to point out that the ashes are the remains of the physical John Lennon and not really worth wondering the whereabouts. The essence of who he was, like anyone one who is dead in the physical plane is quite present in the esoteric sense and still here for those who know where and how to look. Though if speculation is a must I chime in my vote with those that say John's ashes are in the Dakota.
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Old Dec 12, 2003, 06:52 AM   #11
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Default Re: John\'s Ashes

Dr. Dreamer:
Your entitled to your opinion, and so are others, mine would be, with respect of John's wishes, what he wanted. I don't believe he'd want to be displayed over a fireplace, like some kind or worship. I struggle many times to come to terms with Yoko for what ever she may have done, but this, his ashes, and or what she plans to do with them is beyond my sanity, or state of mind.
I'll just not think about it, it hurts.
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Old Dec 13, 2003, 09:09 AM   #12
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Default Re: John\'s Ashes

I like what Yoko said a 1996 interview that she wanted to concentrate her thoughts on "when John was alive" and to celebrate their lives together and the work he accomplished during his life time.

As for the ashes, everybody has their own way of dealing with, coping with and responding to the loss, especially the traumatic loss of a loved one. There is no right or wrong, just an acceptance of the decisions that those directly involved make.
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Old Dec 13, 2003, 12:32 PM   #13
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Default Re: John\'s Ashes

Quote:
Originally Posted By Whistlerca:
Dr. Dreamer:
Your entitled to your opinion, and so are others, mine would be, with respect of John's wishes, what he wanted. I don't believe he'd want to be displayed over a fireplace, like some kind or worship. I struggle many times to come to terms with Yoko for what ever she may have done, but this, his ashes, and or what she plans to do with them is beyond my sanity, or state of mind.
I'll just not think about it, it hurts.
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">When did John ever state how he wished his body to be dealt with upon his death?
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Old Dec 13, 2003, 04:00 PM   #14
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Default Re: John\'s Ashes

I also remember reading somewhere that John didn't wannt to be cremated... Don't remember where it was from, though.
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Old Dec 13, 2003, 05:30 PM   #15
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Default Re: John\'s Ashes

Quote:
I also remember reading somewhere that John didn't wannt to be cremated... Don't remember where it was from, though.
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Yes I too remember that (I am trying to look for it) and John didn't want to be worshiped, like the statue at Liverpool airport (again I am trying to tract this down) I myself have nothing against the statue, but... I would have to agree with him, on his wishes, you (or rather they) could have said he was a great song writer along with McCartney, and with the greatest band that ever played, also his protests, or struggles for rights, as a tribute, this might have been better served, its just my opinion.
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Old Dec 13, 2003, 06:20 PM   #16
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Default Re: John\'s Ashes

I guess, depending on when that interview was, John *could* have changed his mind about the cremation. But if he didn't, I think that is an unforgivable thing Yoko did (assuming she knew his wishes). You don't do what you feel is right, you do what the deceased would have wanted done with their body.

I don't have a problem with the stuff Yoko has done relating to John's music, etc, such as the remastering of his albums and the video that she has let us all see (for the most part anyway). But I really do cringe at the stuff like the Liverpool airport and the statues. I couldn't imagine him ever agreeing to some of that stuff if he was alive. That quote from him in the Playboy interview about how he felt about the worshiping of dead celebs tells it all.
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Old Dec 14, 2003, 11:41 PM   #17
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Default Re: John\'s Ashes

I don't know about the airport and the baby items were John's wishes. However I do think all these tribute things are getting a bit out of hand. I don't mind the Strawberry Field in Central Park, or having a picture of him on my coffee mug or shirts or even a street named after him, but some things are getting carried away. Even John would probably think "This is getting too crazy!"

As for Yoko's decision on having John cremated, well, I don't know about John's decision on this. I mean, we weren't there when they discussed it and John may have changed his mind at the last minute after he said that he didn't want to be cremated. Anyway, besides that, I heard that Yoko wanted John cremated because she feared that people would "terrorize" his resting place as they did to Elvis, Ronnie Van Zandt from Lynard Skynard, etc.
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Old Dec 15, 2003, 01:46 AM   #18
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Default Re: John\'s Ashes

Quote:
Originally Posted By Whistlerca:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">I also remember reading somewhere that John didn't wannt to be cremated... Don't remember where it was from, though.

<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Yes I too remember that (I am trying to look for it) and John didn't want to be worshiped, like the statue at Liverpool airport (again I am trying to tract this down) I myself have nothing against the statue, but... I would have to agree with him, on his wishes, you (or rather they) could have said he was a great song writer along with McCartney, and with the greatest band that ever played, also his protests, or struggles for rights, as a tribute, this might have been better served, its just my opinion.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Just FYI, that statue was not created specifically for the airport. I know this, because when I was in Liverpool in 1997, the statue was sitting on display in the middle of a shopping centre, looking for a home. I have photos to prove it, complete with the sign asking for someone to buy it. Apparently it was sculpted by a local artist and no one even wanted it, and I think it was probably just the artist's personal tribute. (And BTW, it is one of the few statues of John in Liverpool -- and there are many -- that actually LOOKS like John! There's one on Mathew Street that is just DREADFUL...but I digress...)

I agree that John would not have wanted to be placed on a pedestal (no pun intended) and that he would probably find a lot of this "worship" to be a bit much -- he'd probably be the first one to tell those over-zealous fans to "get a life!" I do consider Strawberry Fields dedicated in Central Park to be fitting, as it was one of his favorite places in the city and the place where he used to take Sean when he was little. And a certain amount of merchandise is nice because those of us who are fans do like to have things to wear, etc. But that does not mean I agree with every single merchandising decision Yoko has made, and I have in fact regarded some of the things she's done with a rather jaundiced eye! (For me, that does NOT include the baby clothes -- I think they're cute, and my son wore them when he was little. Nothing better for a Beatles/Lennon-mad mommy like me! I don't necessarily believe John'd be too upset by the drawings he made out of love for his son being used to make other children smile.)

I think you're right, though, about Yoko being concerned that people would desecrate John's grave in some way if he had been conventionally buried -- and I think she may have been correct to be concerned. (BTW, Elvis's grave is not "terrorized" in any way -- it is on the grounds of Graceland and they do put fans' tributes such as flowers around it (and remove then when they wilt, to be replaced by others), but you just aren't allowed to get that close! However, the reason Elvis was buried AT Graceland was because they were concerned that if he'd been buried in the regular cemetery that might have happened. It was the reason his mother's grave was moved to Graceland too.) Perhaps the image of Jim Morrison's graffitti-covered grave in Pere Lachaise Cemetery in Paris is a better analogy. But I know what you mean. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[size="1"][ Dec 15, 2003, 02:48 AM: Message Edited By: HMVNipper ][/size]
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Old Dec 15, 2003, 11:49 PM   #19
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Default Re: John\'s Ashes

Quote:
"worship" to be a bit much -- he'd probably be the first one to tell those over-zealous fans to "get a life!" I do consider Strawberry Fields dedicated in Central Park to be fitting,
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Great view point, I agree, I too like Strawberry Fields dedicated in Central Park NY, (have to return) I wasn't making a big thing over the Airport statue, it is a good likeness of him. Everything you say merits worth, even Cemetery after having seen Bruce Lee's in Seattle, Washington (people keep smashing his photo on the headstone) won't want someone doing that to John's, so its best he's set free, from where ever much like George.
Good rebuttal HMVNipper, thanks [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[size="1"][ Dec 15, 2003, 12:53 PM: Message Edited By: Whistlerca ][/size]
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Old Dec 19, 2003, 02:35 PM   #20
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Default Re: John\'s Ashes

It is interesting you mention Morrison's grave, Susan because I kept thinking about his graffiti spattered grave throughout this thread.

As sad as I am about the deaths of George and John, I think Yoko took every precaution to see that his grave was neither vandalized nor terrorized...I think since Yoko truly knew John, she was doing what she honestly believed was what John himself wanted. There is no way to know what took place during any possible conversations that they might have had regarding his possible ealier death...

As for the legacy of art John left behind, I think it was his generous love for his sons that have allowed the merchandise (I love it too) to be available for others to enjoy and keep the Lennon Lyrics going. I will never forget what Yoko said about wanting to celebrate "when John was alive." She never says when he died, but "when John was alive." I like that.
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