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Old Nov 19, 2007, 04:45 PM   #41
62hofner
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The Hofner bass is truly the best-looking of any bass guitars!

I notice that one of those "Caven" models shown above has a "Hofner" logo printed on the body(!?). That was not true to the originals - no? I don't ever recall seeing it on either of Paul's '61 or '63 models.
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Old Nov 19, 2007, 04:57 PM   #42
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Fantastic collection... I think I just drooled on my keyboard.

I have this site bookmarked for a great drum reference.

Thanks for sharing.
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Old Nov 19, 2007, 06:27 PM   #43
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Well, at my friend Carla's request, I am posting some photos that show part of my Ringo drum collection:

Here's a 1960 Premier Mahogany Duroplastic kit with all Ringo specs


This is a 1965 Ludwig Downbeat kit in Oyster Black Pearl


..and here's a 1965 Super Classic kit


Finally, here's a very rare 1969 Ludwig Hollywood maple kit
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Old Nov 19, 2007, 06:36 PM   #44
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Fab4Skins, perhaps you could share the provenance of these kits and how you acquired them?
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Old Nov 19, 2007, 07:10 PM   #45
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Like most collectors, I started out by simply wanting a typical Ringo kit. The more I researched Ringo’s gear, the more confusing things got. I found many contradictory articles from people claiming to know what equipment Ringo played. Through years of compiling data and photos I found myself becoming a forensic photo specialist and a self-professed specialist concerning Ringo’s gear.



The short story is that after years of searching high and low as well as many trades and deals, I have acquired a very rare collection of authentic vintage drums kits as close to Ringo’s as you can get. Knowing the scarcity of some of the pieces, I feel confident in saying that I may have the only collection of its kind.

The biggest frustration that faces me at this time is not having an avenue to exhibit these kits so that others can learn and enjoy them as I do.
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Old Nov 19, 2007, 07:32 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fab4Skins View Post
The biggest frustration that faces me at this time is not having an avenue to exhibit these kits so that others can learn and enjoy them as I do.
well, we have 10,096 members here who can learn and enjoy from what you've shared. thanks for posting!
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Old Nov 20, 2007, 01:52 AM   #47
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Thanks for sharing all those pics! They're simply amazing. May I ask, do you really notice a different sound between one kit and another? I've read about all the mic'ing techniques they used to record Ringo's drums at one moment or other, but I've always wondered whether they sound very different per se.

As Karla has said, I'm sure many of us over here will learn and enjoy with your gear.
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Old Nov 20, 2007, 05:12 AM   #48
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Yeah, there is a big difference and it really gets complicated. If you put the room, acoustics, mics, mic placement, compression and other effects, etc. off to the side, the drums all do sound different.

Before you even get to the kits, the drumheads also played a huge difference. You can see that Ringo used calfskin heads on part, if not all of his Premier kit, way back when. He also used Mylar heads on his Ludwig kits and he may have switched from Mylar to calfskin on his maple kit. Ringo claimed that he used calfskin heads on his maple kit but photographic evidence seems to differ, at least during the recording of Let It Be. There are limited photos during the recording sessions of the Abbey Road album, so it is quite possible that calfskin heads may have been used at that time.

In my opinion, the Premier kit that Ringo used when he first joined the band was poorly made and they were rather high in tonal quality. The sound quality of the Premier 4" x 14" Royal Ace piccolo snare is pretty nice and that has a pretty good sound. For some it's hard to imagine that this kit was used when The Beatles recorded their first album. That means using them on hits like Twist & Shout and I Saw Here Standing There.

Concerning the Ludwig kits, you’d have to hear a vintage kit from the 60’s to understand the sound. Ringo’s Oyster Black Pearl (OBP) sets were all 3-ply shells made of mahogany, maple and mahogany veneers. Then of course, the outer wrap. The Hollywood maple kit had 3-ply shells with the outer veneer being maple. Not having an outer wrap on the shells allows them to ring a bit more giving them a very unique sound.

Another important fact to mention is that Ringo used the same Ludwig OPB snare with all of his Ludwig kits. IMHO, that was a great sounding snare. He really managed to get a wide variety of sounds out of that drum.

Note: You can refer to my website for additional information and the actual drum sizes (http://thebbcband.com/photos.html). Scroll down toward the bottom of the page.

I didn’t plan on writing a novel, so I hope that this information helps.
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Old Nov 21, 2007, 02:00 AM   #49
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Thank you very much for taking the trouble to write all that information, which I've found very illustrative and interesting. I'd already read something about Ringo's kits (in Andy Babiuk's "Beatles Gear"), but it's always good to have the opportunity of hearing at first hand from someone who really knows about it. I've really liked everything in your website, and I've enjoyed a lot all the pics of the drum kits from different angles (by the way, I realized that at least the third and fourth of the pics you posted here aren't in your website -thanks to the tea towels on the snare and floor tom).

If I've understood well what you explained, the difference in the sound of the drums is mainly owing to how the "walls" of the drum are made (apart from the material of the heads). The OBP drums had this 3-ply walls, and then an outer wrap, I imagine that for aesthetic reasons (even if that affects the sound, too). And the maple drums lacked this outer wrap and the material of each of the three veneers was different than in the OBP drums. Now I see how the sound of each of the kits can be different; now I only hope that some day I'll have the opportunity to check it in the flesh!

You say that Ringo used the same snare in all his kits. To me, it seems incredible that you can tell so from the swirl pattern! I know nothing about drums, but cannot a snare be placed in any position on its stand? If it's so, it must be really difficult to compare different photos, and there must be something very characteristic! And how can you tell a calfskin from a Mylar head in a pic?

I see in your web site that in all the kits but the last Ringo used the crash and ride cymbals of the same size; were they the same cymbals in all kits, as happened with the snare? Or were they different cymbals, although of the same size? And what is a "sizzle", in the maple kit? All the time I had assumed that the 18'' cymbal was the ride one and the 20'' the crash one, but then, I cannot understand too well the arrangement of the cymbals in the last kit. Did Ringo use both the 20'' and the 18'' cymbals for crash and ride functions, depending on the moment? Of the three cymbals, which is which in the pics?

By the way, is it known the kind of stool Ringo used?

I apologize for bombarding you with such ignorant questions, but I like to learn about all these things !
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Old Nov 21, 2007, 02:02 AM   #50
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Oh, by the way, take care to remove the last bracket when trying to open Gary's website. I had to do it twice before realizing what was wrong!
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Old Nov 21, 2007, 06:16 AM   #51
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Andy Babiuk's book Beatles Gear is great and was groundbreaking. He is a true pioneer in doing such indepth research.

I spent some time with Andy here in Buffalo when he was touring to promote his book. At the time he mentioned that he had way more material for the book than was allowed to go into to it because the publishing contract called for a coffee table book, so he was limited on content. Not many people know this. Secondly, being the first to make such an attempt, many questions were raised and further investigations began. Unfortunately, some of the books information was found to b incorrect. Here’s an example; the book shows a photo of a snare and tom and states that this is all that remains of Ringo’s first Ludwig kit. The truth is that after the book came out, it was discovered that Zak Starkey, Ringo’s son, had the rest of the kit (bass drum and floor tom) in his attic. Go figure!

Discussing Ringo’s snare is very in-depth. To keep things simple in this thread, I’ll try to explain.

Every Oyster Black Pearl (OBP) drum has its own swirl pattern fingerprint and can easily be seen when you examine photos. Some pictures highlight surface areas because of lighting or flashes used. When Mal Evans set up Ringo’s kits, he always placed the snare in the same position on the snare stand.

The photo below shows Ringo’s first Ludwig snare and tom taken from the Beatle Gear book. This is also the snare in question. The snare and tom to the right are from my collection. You can use this photo to see the unique OBP fingerprints.



I have selected photos of Ringo’s kit over time that clearly shows his snare. I then inserted the photo of Ringo’s snare (above) circling distinctive areas that match parts of the OBP pattern. You can determine from this that the same snare was always used. It should also be noted that the hardware configuration on the Ludwig Jazz Festival snare was changed in 1964. Ringo's first kit was purchased in May of 1963.











Note: When you examine the photos from Beatles Gear, you can see that the snare shown with Ringo’s other kits is not his first Ludwig snare. But it can be determined from looking at those photos and seeing the very worn batter head, that Ringo obviously used this snare as well. For that matter, you can also see that Ringo’s gold plated snare was used at some point. But this too is another story for another time.

I'll address your other questions as time allows.

Thanks for your interest! I love it!!
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Old Nov 22, 2007, 01:47 AM   #53
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Well, like 62hofner, I'm not completely speechless, but almost! I really appreciate all your explanations, clear and interesting. Thanks a lot! The first of the pics has been really useful to notice how different a snare (or a tom) can be from another. And, once one knows what to look for, it's clear that it is the same snare. At least with the guide (circles) you've provided: I'm not sure I could do so myself, but you can be sure I'm going to go through all my collection of Beatle pics trying to find any detail in the pattern Ringo's snare and compare it with the pic from "Beatles Gear" you've posted first (that's the kind of thing I like to "waste" my time on). Of course, the fact that it was placed always in the same position on its stand helps a lot. Must it be so in all snares, or was it a "mania" of Ringo's? While I suppose the toms on the bass drum are always in the same position (more or less tilted), I thought that the snare and floor tom could be placed in any position.


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I spent some time with Andy here in Buffalo when he was touring to promote his book. At the time he mentioned that he had way more material for the book than was allowed to go into to it because the publishing contract called for a coffee table book, so he was limited on content. Not many people know this. Secondly, being the first to make such an attempt, many questions were raised and further investigations began. Unfortunately, some of the books information was found to b incorrect. Here’s an example; the book shows a photo of a snare and tom and states that this is all that remains of Ringo’s first Ludwig kit. The truth is that after the book came out, it was discovered that Zak Starkey, Ringo’s son, had the rest of the kit (bass drum and floor tom) in his attic. Go figure!
Bad luck about that publishing contract! I suppose a "coffee table book" is better than nothing (much better, in this case), but I, for one, would jump and buy any revised/updated/augmented edition of that book. I don't know whether Mr. Babiuk is thinking of looking for another publisher to do so, or whether he considers that "Beatles Gear" is enough, but I'm sure many people would buy the new book, especially if it contains substatially more information than the existing one. Or even if it's only an "update" edition, only with new information and corrections. I'm sure that everyone who already owns the "Beatles Gear" book would be glad to have it!
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Old Nov 22, 2007, 11:35 AM   #54
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Of course, the fact that it was placed always in the same position on its stand helps a lot. Must it be so in all snares, or was it a "mania" of Ringo's? While I suppose the toms on the bass drum are always in the same position (more or less tilted), I thought that the snare and floor tom could be placed in any position.
I'd imagine Ringo would have placed the snare drum in the same position each time so that he would have easy access to the turn key that adjusts the amount of snare.

Just a guess....
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Old Nov 23, 2007, 12:51 AM   #55
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I'd imagine Ringo would have placed the snare drum in the same position each time so that he would have easy access to the turn key that adjusts the amount of snare.

Just a guess....
It's easy to know I'm no drummer . I had no idea such a key existed. I understand that it's something that tightens or slackens those kinda wires below the skin to change the sound of the drum, isn't it? Well, if there is a key to adjust that, then the snare isn't as symmetrical as I thought, and it makes sense that it's always placed in the same position. Thanks for the info! Clearly, I need to get myself a drum kit (and a new home, 'cause I'll be kicked, along with the drums, out of mine!)
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Old Nov 24, 2007, 03:31 AM   #56
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Here is a photo of my Epiphone

David

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Old Nov 26, 2007, 06:54 AM   #58
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Been a while since I checked the pics on this thread. Everything is so beautiful!!!!!!!
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Old Nov 26, 2007, 02:36 PM   #59
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Yes its a Dot I like the sunburst finish too, would love a proper Gibson maybe someday.

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