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Old Aug 31, 2011, 07:31 PM   #1
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Default Questions answered in "Living in the Material World"..?

Are there any kinds of things you are hoping Scorsese will explore in Living in the Material World?

I have heaps of questions and hopes.

One thing I have wondered about is the rumor about George converting to Christianity just before he passed. We know that George had chanting of the Maha Mantra and pictures of Rama and Krishna... also had HH Mukunda Goswami and Shymasundar das with him. His memorial service was held at Self Realization Fellowship, and I spoke with the monastic who was George's friend, who also gave that service. He never mentioned a conversion story, but that's not to say it could not have happened.

Maybe George took on a more liberal definition of the word conversion.

I'd love to know more about it though. What I would love to know is if... the Daily Bread on George's website was inspired by the devotional Christian booklet given to George at the races. Evangelist Luis Palau said George gleened a lot from that Christian booklet. Did he lift the title for that part of his website? He once had on that section an inspirational quote from Swami Sivananda on the Daily Bread.

I know George was fond of the Gospel of Thomas, also. I'd love to hear more about his interest in that.
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Old Aug 31, 2011, 08:53 PM   #2
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One cannot practice Chrisitanity and Krishna. I believe George died a Krishna. If he did look at Christianity in any form, I'd bet money it was a radical version like the Essenes of something.
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Old Aug 31, 2011, 08:59 PM   #3
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One cannot practice Chrisitanity and Krishna. I believe George died a Krishna. If he did look at Christianity in any form, I'd bet money it was a radical version like the Essenes of something.
Do you wanna hear soemthing interesting? There is a Catholic saint who had visions of Mary and the Holy Family... and she said Saint Anne was an Essene... and so Mary also. The Catholic church made her a Saint and validated these visions! Cool, huh?
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Old Sep 02, 2011, 04:56 AM   #4
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Do you wanna hear soemthing interesting? There is a Catholic saint who had visions of Mary and the Holy Family... and she said Saint Anne was an Essene... and so Mary also. The Catholic church made her a Saint and validated these visions! Cool, huh?
What's the name of the saint? (Personally, I believe most of the early followers of Jesus were Essenes.)

Catholics treated me like crap while growing up. They didn't accept me nor want me around yet my Catholic parents kept throwing me among them and forcing me to stay there. I still suffer that emotional trauma from it and I notice how now they bug me and say I am one of them when their numbers dwindle. (I say, "You didn't want me then. You can't have me now)

It also just bugs me how Christians can't accept that they admire someone like George who clearly never was a Christian yet had admirable traits. guess what? There are other beliefs and religions in the world. and some of them are valid too. and some of those people YOU MAY EVEN ADMIRE. IF that's a sin, then get a new religion.
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Old Sep 02, 2011, 08:50 AM   #5
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What's the name of the saint? (Personally, I believe most of the early followers of Jesus were Essenes.)

Catholics treated me like crap while growing up. They didn't accept me nor want me around yet my Catholic parents kept throwing me among them and forcing me to stay there. I still suffer that emotional trauma from it and I notice how now they bug me and say I am one of them when their numbers dwindle. (I say, "You didn't want me then. You can't have me now)

It also just bugs me how Christians can't accept that they admire someone like George who clearly never was a Christian yet had admirable traits. guess what? There are other beliefs and religions in the world. and some of them are valid too. and some of those people YOU MAY EVEN ADMIRE. IF that's a sin, then get a new religion.
Gosh, there is so much hostility here recently, it seems one cannot even have a nice conversation. Maybe there is something in the water here at the Palace...

I'm sorry you experienced bad things from the Catholic church. Fact is, and it will always be true, ANY time you have ANY group of people, there will be imperfect people and imperfect actions. This is because ... people are imperfect, and as a result, they can be hurtful.

That means people have been hurt in Catholicism, Hinduism, Buddhism (poor Tibet monks!), and even in private spiritual gatherings with non-denominations. It's just how it is. The saying is... "show me a perfect religion and I'll be sure not to join... I would surely ruin it!"

Anyway, Toy, you don't really know my path, so it's pretty funny you assume I am closed minded. I read from all religions... lookie at my signiture... it's MJ with the words "ONE" and around the globe are all the symbols of all faiths.

I was just making convo really, and trying to be nice to you? I am sorry that I seemed to have offended you.

Now... about your statement George could not be Hindu/Krishna AND Christian, well, this is blatantly untrue. In fact, Srila Prabhupada himself said it is the same to chant Hare Christos. And in India, many devotees worship Jesus. Deepak said George loved Christ and in fact "had a deeply personal relationship with Him." George signed his name with an Om and a Cross. The cross he added in the mid 80's... before that it was just the Om.

Anyway, peace to you....
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Old Sep 02, 2011, 08:55 AM   #6
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Back to topic!!

Are there any questions you'd like to ask George about his spiritual path.... ones which you hope might be answered in the movie? :)
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Old Sep 02, 2011, 05:59 PM   #7
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.Anyway, Toy, you don't really know my path, so it's pretty funny you assume I am closed minded. I read from all religions... lookie at my signiture... it's MJ with the words "ONE" and around the globe are all the symbols of all faiths.

I was just making convo really, and trying to be nice to you? I am sorry that I seemed to have offended you.
.
NO you didn't offend me nor did I make any assumptions about you. but Catholics do offend me (besides the awful way they treated me that automatically puts me on the defensive due to 13 solid years of emotional abuse) when they try to force someone as Catholic who clearly wasn't like George. (and respecting Jesus as a teacher and a master such as George might have does not make one a Catholic or even a Christian. Those people believe Jesus to be their savior and there is a difference between a savior and a teacher).
George made many Anti-catholic statements as well as songs like P2 VAtican blues and Horse to Water (both later in his life).
He also made many anti-Catholic and Christianity comments. My favorite I read in Dark Horse where when George was studying the form of meditating under the maharishi with his given mantra, he stated that he preferred these Eastern beliefs where one seeks the answers themselves and practices the mantra to attain enlightenment. He stated he wasn't into Christianity with a priest saying, "I'm it, just listen to what I say." (I'm rereading that book now after 20 years and I'll find the exact quote and where it came from).
His account is true to the difference between the two practices.
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Old Sep 02, 2011, 09:22 AM   #8
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It also just bugs me how Christians can't accept that they admire someone like George who clearly never was a Christian yet had admirable traits. guess what? There are other beliefs and religions in the world. and some of them are valid too. and some of those people YOU MAY EVEN ADMIRE. IF that's a sin, then get a new religion.
Really? There's other religions in the world other than Christianity? When did this happen?

Not sure where this is coming from. I'm a Christian and I accept George for who he was as a person, not as someone who followed a religion other than Christianity. I know people of several faiths that admire George.

This thread, just like the Dhani project is now drifting away from it's original purpose.

If we want to discuss it further, I suggest we start a new thread and leave this one for those who want to discuss LITMW. Just a thought.
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Old Sep 02, 2011, 09:36 AM   #9
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I didn't sense any hostility on a personal level with Misfit Toy's post. It was a comment on how most organized religion in and of itself, no matter which, is not really tolerant of other religious beliefs, and MT was relating it their experience being brought up as a strict Catholic.
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Old Sep 02, 2011, 09:57 AM   #10
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I'm a Christian and I accept George for who he was as a person, not as someone who followed a religion other than Christianity. I know people of several faiths that admire George.
My church, which is the Catholic church uses George's music for many of our prayer meetings, Bible studies and discussion groups. "Dear One" is one of our favorites as it is a beautiful prayer set to music.

George BROUGHT people together and brought many closer to God and that is one reason why I really love him.
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Old Sep 03, 2011, 10:40 PM   #11
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One cannot practice Chrisitanity and Krishna. I believe George died a Krishna. If he did look at Christianity in any form, I'd bet money it was a radical version like the Essenes of something.
Who says so?

God takes many forms, Christ, Krishna, Buddha, Jehovah, Allah..

George himself remarked on the similarities betwen Christ and Krishna many times..and on the 1974 American tour would get the crowd to chant " Jesus..Krishna, Jesus, Krishna..Christ's name in the orginal Greek is KRISTOS ..Krishna, Kristos..both share the KRI..coincidence?

Its not God that is limited, it is some peoples narrow visions ie you cant do this or that, that is a human invention..

I havent heard about a full blown conversion at the end of his life, and would doubt it as George was fully Christ Concious for most of his life

Hallelujiah..Hare Krishna... Thats practising both right there!
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Old Sep 04, 2011, 03:18 AM   #12
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The lyrics from Life Itself speak of "They call you Christ, Vsnu, Buddha, Jehovah, Our Lord, You are Govindam, Bismillah, Creator of All..." showing how those are all just embodiment names put onto the same life force. Anyhow, I think of George more as a spiritual being than a religious one, he was able to encompass the best of everything.

I am really looking forward to the film and book too! :)
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Old Sep 12, 2011, 07:45 AM   #13
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The lyrics from Life Itself speak of "They call you Christ, Vsnu, Buddha, Jehovah, Our Lord, You are Govindam, Bismillah, Creator of All..." showing how those are all just embodiment names put onto the same life force. Anyhow, I think of George more as a spiritual being than a religious one, he was able to encompass the best of everything.


Totally agree.

For those wishing to refresh their memory with this wonderful song.....

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTG3y4Q786g

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Old Sep 04, 2011, 03:33 PM   #14
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Who says so?

God takes many forms, Christ, Krishna, Buddha, Jehovah, Allah..

George himself remarked on the similarities betwen Christ and Krishna many times..and on the 1974 American tour would get the crowd to chant " Jesus..Krishna, Jesus, Krishna..Christ's name in the orginal Greek is KRISTOS ..Krishna, Kristos..both share the KRI..coincidence?

Its not God that is limited, it is some peoples narrow visions ie you cant do this or that, that is a human invention..

I havent heard about a full blown conversion at the end of his life, and would doubt it as George was fully Christ Concious for most of his life

Hallelujiah..Hare Krishna... Thats practising both right there!
which god are you speaking of here? You do realize that many of us are polytheist including the Hindus even if some follow one god over others.
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Old Sep 02, 2011, 03:15 PM   #15
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I've long wanted to explore George's roots in Catholicism. Louise was Catholic and, in an interview with a fan from George's fan club newsletter said that George and Pattie were both Catholic. Louise had George baptized when he was 1 month old.

Apparently the roots of Catholicism took root and bore fruit in George. He had a lovely statue of the Blessed Mother on his property. He also sang "Vatican Blues." We know his boyhood disillusionment with the hypocrisy he witnessed in people who claimed to be religious. I still would be very interested in George's later views on Catholicism.
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Old Sep 02, 2011, 05:44 PM   #16
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I think Horse to Water, the last song George recorded before he died showed his views very much on Priests.
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Old Sep 02, 2011, 06:42 PM   #17
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I've long wanted to explore George's roots in Catholicism. Louise was Catholic and, in an interview with a fan from George's fan club newsletter said that George and Pattie were both Catholic. Louise had George baptized when he was 1 month old.

Apparently the roots of Catholicism took root and bore fruit in George. He had a lovely statue of the Blessed Mother on his property. He also sang "Vatican Blues." We know his boyhood disillusionment with the hypocrisy he witnessed in people who claimed to be religious. I still would be very interested in George's later views on Catholicism.
Me too, BB! Very much so. George also had a statue of the Sacred Heart in his grotto. I really hope the doc speaks about George's views on all the things you mention. I'd love to know more about Louise and Harold's views, too.
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Old Sep 04, 2011, 11:46 AM   #18
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Since Louise was Catholic, I also believe that George felt closer to Louise through Catholic precepts and traditions.

George DID accept people and their paths to God ("Any Road") as Any Road'll Take You There. He was a VERY open-minded person (no doubt a Louise trait, one of which has been emphasized in the many biographies that include her) and since God is all about tolerance and acceptance, George wanted to learn, listen and understand the beliefs of others.

I have always believed that George brought many people closer to God. I can speak from experience. Many is the time when I have said that is one of the reasons that I really love George.
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Old Sep 06, 2011, 01:05 PM   #19
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I remember reading an invterview of George where he said that after he studied Krishna, he understood Christianity better, that Christ took on the karma of the world.
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Old Sep 04, 2011, 03:24 PM   #20
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I would listen first. I don't know what, if anything I would ask. I do know this - I would listen to what he wanted to share and, if I felt the need, ask relevant questions and make relevant responses.

Again, I really would find his perception of Catholicism interesting. I really do think the Catholicism Louise instilled in him did take root for his entire life. George may not have enjoyed the masses and the behavior of some clergy, but I do think the precepts stayed with him for his entire life.

*added in* To quote my other favorite Beatle, Paul McCartney, I would listen to what the man said. *end edit*
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