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Old Jan 23, 2012, 02:09 AM   #1401
Snoopy66
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Originally Posted by Maia 66 View Post
Like John was more Latin/passionate
John Lennon more latin/passionate... ??

Oh nooo, I don't think so.... John was sooo typically english through and through: his humour, his look and also his behaviour. I mean, just because he was jealous and possessive.... that alone doesn't make him more "latin" IMHO

John didn't have at all the so-called "latin-charm"; he was just too cynic and sarcastic for it. Even when he lived in New York, he still remained very "british"

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Old Jan 23, 2012, 05:51 PM   #1402
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Oh, Snoopy... don't take everything so literally. I was exaggerating...
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Old Jan 23, 2012, 06:09 PM   #1403
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So here's a random question...I want your opinions.

When John returned to Yoko at the end of 1974 and Yoko soon became pregnant in early 1975, do you think John's "retirement" was a premeditated choice to raise Sean or do you think he sort of fell in to it, enjoyed it, and wanted to see it through? In other words: was John really wanting to be a househusband or was he trying to avoid going back into a business he had just spent a year or so "experiencing," to the detriment of his own sanity, nervous, system, ability to hold his liquor, etc. and therefore decided, "I'm taking a break- for myself, my wife, and this future child."

I ask because there are some who believe it was all a myth concocted by John, that he wanted to take a break. Many believe he was overwhelmed, had lost his muse, felt spent, and wanted a break. I want your opinions.
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Old Jan 23, 2012, 06:44 PM   #1404
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Well, John's retirement coincided not only with Sean's arrival but also with the end of his recording contract with Apple/EMI/Capitol... and I have always been of the belief that he took advantage of those two events to intentionally get off the merry-go-round... but I think he did it for his own sake. And, personally, I think it was one of the sanest, healthiest, and most mature things John ever did.

His life had been an insane whirlwind for over a dozen years. He had known unbelievable success AND excess... and he had never really learned how to take care of himself properly through all of that. I really feel that the Lost Weekend scared John... that he could lose control like that and that he could really lose Yoko, the one grounding force in his life, the only relationship that made sense to him.

AND... I think he felt terribly guilty about Julian and wanted to make things right. John was really a family man, after all... he was a homebody who, although he loved nightclubbing in his 20s (and who didn't??), always preferred being close to just a few people than to be out there making the scene like Mick or Bowie or other beautiful people.

So, I don't think it was just about being a househusband, but I also don't think it was just about hiding out, away from The Business. I think it was about John finding out wh he wanted to be for the rest of his life... and to do that, he needed off the merry-go-round.
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Old Jan 23, 2012, 07:13 PM   #1405
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Excellent post Maia! I know I'm repeating myself, but I agree 100%. I always think that, even if John may have been leaving out some tidbits of detail here and there, his overall explanation about that time was in fact true. He really did want to grow and mature and take a step away from the whirlwind of madness to breathe. His relationship with Julian was always on his mind, and he wanted to make things right there as well as put fatherhood and family first and foremost and not sacrifice any of his sanity for the Business. He needed his full attention for this.

And of course, it helped HIM a great deal as a person as well.

Gosh, your write-up reminded me so much of "Watching The Wheels."
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Old Jan 24, 2012, 12:37 AM   #1406
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Well, John's retirement coincided not only with Sean's arrival but also with the end of his recording contract with Apple/EMI/Capitol... and I have always been of the belief that he took advantage of those two events to intentionally get off the merry-go-round... but I think he did it for his own sake. And, personally, I think it was one of the sanest, healthiest, and most mature things John ever did.
I fully agree with that statement and see it that way too.

I always thought that John took advantage of Sean's birth to make a break, which he really needed. He wasn't only fed up with the excesses, but also with making music and the music-business anyway. I mean, John couldn't be endlessly creative, which is understandable. I also read that he wasn't even inspire even more to make music. Those John-haters who claim that John retired because he was lazy, just didn't understand in which state of mind John then was.

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Old Jan 24, 2012, 12:44 AM   #1407
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Default Hahahaaaaa! Gotta Love It..

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Originally Posted by Fly View Post
I thought we had resolved this George thing or moved on already. I come on here jonsing for some random John discussion and here we are on this same basic theme again. Hari's Chicka, you appear to be a very ardent and loving fan of George and you know I 'ain't gonna hate you for sticking up for your man. But can we move the f*ck along? I don't think anyone meant to offend you about Apple scruff's turn from George to John. Look, George was a sexy motherf*cker with some gorgeous hair. If I dared to look away from John (which I dont do), I guess would hold George's hand with joy.

But as it is, this is about John and my loyalty and love is unwavering. So even though it's cool to defend George my eyes are made for Lennon and I just want to have a f*cking random discussion about John ok? The John& George relationship thing and your above post about it is all good, but I don't want to read paragraphs about George and his humor. I'll hop on your board for that. Keep it more John focused and I don't mind.

I don't mean to come off as a bitch but this is all the John livelihood I have outside of his art/music. Gawdamn 31 years of no John so I just want to be able to anonymously stalk this thread when I'm supposed to be working and read trivial and insightful shit about John. Paul fans get to see him live, you all got some masterful new documentary, and I just got reminded that my favorite artist has been gone for almost as long as he lived. Can't you throw me a f*cking bone?
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Old Jan 24, 2012, 01:04 AM   #1408
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[quote]I don't mean to come off as a bitch but this is all the John livelihood I have outside of his art/music. Gawdamn 31 years of no John so I just want to be able to anonymously stalk this thread when I'm supposed to be working and read trivial and insightful shit about John. Paul fans get to see him live, you all got some masterful new documentary, and I just got reminded that my favorite artist has been gone for almost as long as he lived. Can't you throw me a f*cking bone? [quote]

Well, Fly just spoke from my heart; couldn't agree more on this

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Old Jan 24, 2012, 01:37 AM   #1409
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Default Strawberry Fields.....

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Originally Posted by Rellevart View Post
Haha, that's never a problem for me. It's just that I'm not that good with hypotheticals that didn't happen - I'm almost pathologically reality-based. And even if I did choose to have that discussion, the middle of a bunch of hard-core Lennon fans would NOT be the place I'd have it. It would be an exercise in futility. One thing I've learned over the years is to pick your battles wisely. That's all. Anybody is welcome to disagree, that's just my take.

Ok, here's another (related) John question...can anybody tell me what, exactly, is so great about "Strawberry Fields Forever"? I mean, it's widely thought of to be one of John's 'great' songs, but me personally? I don't "get" it. I'd like to be able to get it, but it just...leaves me cold. Most of his other really highly acclaimed songs I either love or at least can see why others love it, but this one baffles me. I know there are a few of you here (ahem, Apple Scruff) who ADORE this song. Can you help me appreciate it more?

Please allow moi Rell.....
I've always loved the song. But I wager I'm older than you and from THAT counter-culture. I lived it. SF has its ROOTS (creatively) in an acid trip.This accounts for the SOUND of it (musical composition) as well as the lyrics.BUT FIRST: Strawberry Fields was a children's home (a British term for Orphanage) in Liverpool. Strawberry Field gates are almost exactly on the corner of Beaconsfield Road and Menlove Avenue. As there’s no parking, keep going on Beaconsfield Road until you see Quarry Road to the right where you can park, then walk back down to the gates.It is now a Church and Prayer center but the original Gate is still there and only 2 miles from Penny Lane!



Let's go verse by verse:

Let me take you down
Cause I'm going to Strawberry Fields
Nothing is real
And nothing to get hung about
Strawberry Fields forever

TRANSLATION: Come along with me for a groovy trip and don't worry...everything is cool & we will be OK, no need to freak out.

Living is easy with eyes closed
Misunderstanding all you see
It's getting hard to be someone but it all works out
It doesn't matter much to me
Let me take you down, cos I'm going to Strawberry Fields
Nothing is real and nothing to get hung about
Strawberry Fields forever


TRANSLATION: Because you REFUSE to "open your eyes/mind" to the REALITY of life, you aren't really "getting it" (because you're taking the EASY way out by avoiding responsibility)
Getting hard to be "someone" of importance in a world that is increasingly absorbed with "celebrity" but it's OK, it will turn out as it's meant to.
It's a FAKE world anyway (Nothing is real) so don't sweat it (nothing to get hung about)

Now this NEXT verse is also the most PROFOUND....John has explained this himself..his thoughts when writing this particular verse..

No one I think is in my tree
I mean it must be high or low
That is you can't you know tune in but it's all right
That is I think it's not too bad


TRANSLATION: I'm in this place ALONE because my IQ is either HIGH or LOW. I mean you can't "tune in" (ie: you don't get me) but again, "it's all right"

That's the genesis/meaning of SF. I totally got it back then! I identified.
A song with powerful or meaningful lyrics as well as a lasting melody is more impactful if one knows and can relate to the lyrics.I hope this will cause you to listen again, more closely Rell, keeping John in mind. I think you'll find a new appreciation for it. At least, I'd like to think so.

Sorry if I'm hit or miss here but in a couple months we'll be enscounsed in our new house, all settled and I'll be around more often!
HI SCRUFF and everyone!
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Old Jan 24, 2012, 05:35 AM   #1410
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Re the househusband thing, John lived a lot of life in his first 35 years, but, as any of us who are older than that know, 35 is still relatively young. As he had no idea what would happen five years hence, he probably figured he had another 35, 40 years left and probably was having an early mid-life crisis..."What do I want to do with the rest of my life?" It coincided perfectly with the end of his recording contract and with Yoko's pregnancy, so I'm thinking he just took some time off to reflect and found he enjoyed not "being on the merry go round", so stayed off it for a while. But eventually, he got rejuvenated, figured out he wanted to make music again and...the rest is a very short history, sadly.
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Old Jan 24, 2012, 07:08 AM   #1411
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Thumbs up Great analysis of SF

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustAJealousGuy View Post

Please allow moi Rell.....
I've always loved the song. But I wager I'm older than you and from THAT counter-culture. I lived it. SF has its ROOTS (creatively) in an acid trip.This accounts for the SOUND of it (musical composition) as well as the lyrics.BUT FIRST: Strawberry Fields was a children's home (a British term for Orphanage) in Liverpool. Strawberry Field gates are almost exactly on the corner of Beaconsfield Road and Menlove Avenue. As there’s no parking, keep going on Beaconsfield Road until you see Quarry Road to the right where you can park, then walk back down to the gates.It is now a Church and Prayer center but the original Gate is still there and only 2 miles from Penny Lane!

Let's go verse by verse:

Let me take you down
Cause I'm going to Strawberry Fields
Nothing is real
And nothing to get hung about
Strawberry Fields forever

TRANSLATION: Come along with me for a groovy trip and don't worry...everything is cool & we will be OK, no need to freak out.

Living is easy with eyes closed
Misunderstanding all you see
It's getting hard to be someone but it all works out
It doesn't matter much to me
Let me take you down, cos I'm going to Strawberry Fields
Nothing is real and nothing to get hung about
Strawberry Fields forever


TRANSLATION: Because you REFUSE to "open your eyes/mind" to the REALITY of life, you aren't really "getting it" (because you're taking the EASY way out by avoiding responsibility)
Getting hard to be "someone" of importance in a world that is increasingly absorbed with "celebrity" but it's OK, it will turn out as it's meant to.
It's a FAKE world anyway (Nothing is real) so don't sweat it (nothing to get hung about)

Now this NEXT verse is also the most PROFOUND....John has explained this himself..his thoughts when writing this particular verse..

No one I think is in my tree
I mean it must be high or low
That is you can't you know tune in but it's all right
That is I think it's not too bad

TRANSLATION: I'm in this place ALONE because my IQ is either HIGH or LOW. I mean you can't "tune in" (ie: you don't get me) but again, "it's all right"

That's the genesis/meaning of SF. I totally got it back then! I identified.
A song with powerful or meaningful lyrics as well as a lasting melody is more impactful if one knows and can relate to the lyrics.I hope this will cause you to listen again, more closely Rell, keeping John in mind. I think you'll find a new appreciation for it. At least, I'd like to think so.
Great analysis, JustAJealousGuy

SF is a real mixture of so many different things/meanings and is actually a quite complex song, musically as well as lyrically.

I also believe that the meaning of the passage "No one I think is in my tree" as follows: John had the feeling that no-one understood him, whether when he was on acid or not. "Living with eyes closed is easy" is like denying the reality of life by ignoring it; that's how I understand it.

On the whole, it's a pure psychedelic music, reflecting so well the late 60's

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Old Jan 24, 2012, 04:01 PM   #1412
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Thanks Snoopy!
Actually John specifically stated (when asked publically) that the line "it must be HIGH or LOW" referred to his IQ.
He wasn't positive but had the general feeling that his own intelligence/way of thinking was different from MOST.
But you definitely DO get it!
Hope to see ya soon!
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Old Jan 24, 2012, 07:21 PM   #1413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rellevart View Post
Re the househusband thing, John lived a lot of life in his first 35 years, but, as any of us who are older than that know, 35 is still relatively young. As he had no idea what would happen five years hence, he probably figured he had another 35, 40 years left and probably was having an early mid-life crisis..."What do I want to do with the rest of my life?" It coincided perfectly with the end of his recording contract and with Yoko's pregnancy, so I'm thinking he just took some time off to reflect and found he enjoyed not "being on the merry go round", so stayed off it for a while. But eventually, he got rejuvenated, figured out he wanted to make music again and...the rest is a very short history, sadly.
Yes, Rell! I agree and what you said is very nicely put and similar to Maia's sentiment. I really feel the same way as both of you!
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Old Jan 25, 2012, 07:36 AM   #1414
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Originally Posted by JustAJealousGuy View Post
Thanks Snoopy!
Actually John specifically stated (when asked publically) that the line "it must be HIGH or LOW" referred to his IQ.
He wasn't positive but had the general feeling that his own intelligence/way of thinking was different from MOST.
Hi JustAJealousGuy

What do you mean by "he wasn't positive" ? That John wasn't positive concerning his IQ ??

Sorry, I don't "get" it...

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Old Jan 25, 2012, 10:09 AM   #1415
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Originally Posted by Apple Scruff View Post
So here's a random question...I want your opinions.

When John returned to Yoko at the end of 1974 and Yoko soon became pregnant in early 1975, do you think John's "retirement" was a premeditated choice to raise Sean or do you think he sort of fell in to it, enjoyed it, and wanted to see it through? In other words: was John really wanting to be a househusband or was he trying to avoid going back into a business he had just spent a year or so "experiencing," to the detriment of his own sanity, nervous, system, ability to hold his liquor, etc. and therefore decided, "I'm taking a break- for myself, my wife, and this future child."

I ask because there are some who believe it was all a myth concocted by John, that he wanted to take a break. Many believe he was overwhelmed, had lost his muse, felt spent, and wanted a break. I want your opinions.

I completely agree with Maia on this matter. John chose the perfect opportunity to jump off the merry-go-round and refocus his energies. I believe this was a turning-point in his life. The pregnancy made him reevaluate his life in a big way. It wasn't just his stopping that did that. Knowing that he had a little life coming into the world, and that he missed the boat with his first one and experiencing those early moments, he wasnted to be tuned-in completely.

Call me crazy, but John having lived only 40 years I sometimes break his life into chunks. The first chunk of his life was basically his life with Mimi, Uncle George, and what he saw of his mom. The second chunk were his friends- Stu, the three other Beatles, and Cyn/Jules. The third part was Yoko. And the last was Sean. I believe each chunk made him the man he was in different ways:

1) Mimi played a major part in forming his personality, his manners and attitude. However, both his parents- being rebels, quirky, and vibrant souls- passed their positive qualities on to him, while he somehow adopted a ferocious temper from his own powerful personality and Mimi.

2) Stu, the other Beatles (mainly Paul), Cynthia and Julian played a large role in the second phase of his life; the ambitious artist/worldwide superstar. He was like a sponge, experimenting as he went along. And he learned a lot from being around each of them but mainly shared his own huge personality with them.

3) Yoko became his partner in life; his muse. Together they made art, life, magic. They walked hand-in-hand, side-by-side in the most serene and turbulent of times. And they inspired the best (and sometimes the worse) in one another. But with a deep and undying love.

4) Sean made John stop and recognize who he was and who he wanted to be. He learned to prioritize, to smile at small things, to take long breaths. It was a relationship that brought him great pride and satisfaction and was mutually rewarding. Honestly, the John/Sean relationship may be the most content, agreeable, and happy of them all in his entire life.
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Old Jan 25, 2012, 04:54 PM   #1416
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LIAM Neeson may have befriended Rihanna on the set of their new film Battleship – but he won't be playing any of her music.

The actor confessed he hasn't listened to music for more than 30 years – ever since John Lennon was killed in 1980.

When asked about the Bajan singer, Liam said: "She's a lovely girl but I don't know her music, I'm ashamed to say.

"I met her on set in Hawaii but I stopped listening to music when John Lennon was shot."

Liam also thinks he's losing his marbles, after turning up late to filming for Battleship because he thought they were starting in December, not September.

He said: "I had no preparation, I put on the costume and read the script once. That was it."




~ I've always loved Liam Neeson as an actor, but this was a little tidbit that makes me love him even more. Wish I could say I do the same, Liam, but I feel your pain.~

Even more interesting. A recent shot of Rihanna! Maybe she understands.

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Old Jan 26, 2012, 01:35 PM   #1417
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^ Yes but Fly. Rihanna has "thug life" tattooed on her fingers. and wearing a John shirt.

The poor girl understands very little.
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Old Jan 26, 2012, 09:03 PM   #1418
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I have always had a major crush on Liam Neeson... it has just been ratcheted up a notch. Maybe I should look him up and share with him the contents of my box sets...
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Old Jan 26, 2012, 09:13 PM   #1419
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Go for it Maia. Liam needs some extra love after losing John and then his poor lovely wife. I'm rooting for ya!

(He's fabulous...)
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Old Jan 27, 2012, 12:05 AM   #1420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustAJealousGuy View Post
Thanks Snoopy!
Actually John specifically stated (when asked publically) that the line "it must be HIGH or LOW" referred to his IQ.
He wasn't positive but had the general feeling that his own intelligence/way of thinking was different from MOST.
But you definitely DO get it!
Hope to see ya soon!
Oh, I see... thank's for the answer, JustAJeaousGuy

It's true that John often felt misunderstood. His way of thinking was special indeed, which he expressed in his lyrics and only if you really take time in listening closely to the lyrics of his songs, you learn little by little to know and "get" him

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