The incident that split John and Paul

In '68,John and Yoko were living with Paul and his girlfriend at the time,Francie.
One breakfast John gets an "anonymous" note--'You think you and your Jap tart are hot s***'. Paul denies this and then writes it off as a joke
This 'joke' is what I feel ended the Lennon/McCartney partnership.


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Tim
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The Church Beatle will now pass among you,and no foreign coins please.

That doesn't deserve a response.

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But you DID respond, even though it was only to say you shouldn't respond.

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Webmaster - BeatleLinks.net

I think that the incident with the "joke" note from Paul caused trouble between them for sure, but I don't think that one incident or argument alone can be blamed for the deterioration of their relationship - the cracks had begun to show before this happened.

I think more than anything, the whole deal with the note showed that Paul just didn't seem to get it when it came to John and his relationship with Yoko.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lucy:
...the whole deal with the note showed that Paul just didn't seem to get it when it came to John and his relationship with Yoko.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No offense... but did anyone "get it" when it came to John and Ms. Ono L?

I sure don't. I think if one of my good friends all of a sudden had a girlfriend or boyfriend and changed their whole scene overnight I'd be kind of dumbfounded and miffed.. Oh wait.. that's highschool *hehehe*


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Jeni

Let it Be

I always thought that it was because Paul was too much of a perfectionist for John to cope with.

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Did Paul McCartney die in a car crash on November 2nd, 1966? Visit Paul is Dead - The Conclusive Evidence, read the clues and decide for yourself.

In a new Lennon book(I think it's Lennon in America...but don't quote me on it) the author claims there is an answering machine recording of John telling Yoko to "get off the phone ya f**cking" nip" while he was speaking to his sister.In an interview with Chicago's Mancow Muller,the author goes on to say that things were so bad between John and Yoko after Double Fantasy, he wouldn't have doubted it if John would have been in an O.J. Simpson situation with her.Has anyone read this book?????I'm not a big fan of Mancow,but I'm curious about the book.He also talks about the "Yoko setting up Paul's bust in Japan" conspiracy.......

I remember that being on Mancow, from what the guy was saying, Yoko is a women lover, and John was gay, and they really hated each other.

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Paul is a live, prove me wrong by going to www.anetzweb.com

GG is an asshole. His books shouldn't be believed. The Beatles broke up 'cause when you spend all of this time with people you eventually get tired of them. If Paul hadn't done that thing with the lawyers and such, they would have been friends later on in life.

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Peace, Love, and Beatles,
Stefanie

Beatle Me This, Beatle Me That

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"After all is said and done, you can't go pleasing everyone, so screw it"
--John Lennon

In the new book George put's them blam on the split on Yoko, saying that "the hated the Beatles, she say as as something that was keeping her away from John. She was like a wedge that was driving it self between us till we split." George was there, he's a smart guy, he knows what's going on.

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Paul is a live, prove me wrong by going to www.anetzweb.com

I was watching this Time and Again last night on MSNBC and it showed this interview with John and he said the reason the broke up was due to boredum. The boredum lead to bickering with each other and then it lead to other things.

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Peace, Love, and Beatles,
Stefanie

Beatle Me This, Beatle Me That

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"After all is said and done, you can't go pleasing everyone, so screw it"
--John Lennon

[quote]Originally posted by Jeni:
[b] No offense... but did anyone "get it" when it came to John and Ms. Ono L?

I totally understand that that was the wrong wording to use! I don't want to suggest for a second that I understand the intense nature of their relationship and what that did to them all as a group - I don't "get it" either!
I meant something else but I can't remember what!

I agree that GG is full of it and his books shouldn't be believed.

Something else that might have caused the split up. Paul mentioned in an interview that when John was going through his Primal Screaming therapy he was screaming at everyon, especially him. That would make anyone upset. There are many factors that let to the break up. It wasn't any one person or one reason.

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Peace, Love, and Beatles,
Stefanie

Beatle Me This, Beatle Me That

//0-0\\//0-0\\//0-0\\
"After all is said and done, you can't go pleasing everyone, so screw it"
--John Lennon

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by beatlemethisbeatlemethat:
GG is an asshole. His books shouldn't be believed. The Beatles broke up 'cause when you spend all of this time with people you eventually get tired of them. If Paul hadn't done that thing with the lawyers and such, they would have been friends later on in life.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Steffie,this is so true.
Though whether John would have forgiven Paul for the note I don't know,but I have heard Yoko is still hurt by it.


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Tim
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The Church Beatle will now pass among you,and no foreign coins please.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by beatlemethisbeatlemethat:
I was watching this Time and Again last night on MSNBC and it showed this interview with John and he said the reason the broke up was due to boredum. The boredum lead to bickering with each other and then it lead to other things.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I saw that too, and I think it cleared a lot of things up.



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Paul is a live, prove me wrong by going to www.anetzweb.com

Something else that might have caused the split up. Paul mentioned in an interview that when John was going through his Primal Screaming therapy he was screaming at everyon, especially him. That would make anyone upset. There are many factors that let to the break up. It wasn't any one person or one reason.

<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">What's Primal Screaming therapy?

Does this all matter now?

Originally Posted By beatlemethisbeatlemethat:
There are many factors that let to the break up. It wasn't any one person or one reason.

<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">I definitely have to agree with this...
There are just so many things that assisted in deterioriating the group.

For one, they were getting "old" and they were also "growing up" -- as far as age is concerned in the entertainment industry. No doubt they were also getting bored (who wouldn't? Nearly a decade of the same old things, people, places, etc.). New interests were developing... Music, relationships (John & Yoko, Paul & Linda), and so on. Not to mention, they were probably getting really sick of eachother... The same people, day in and day out. Even best friends get tired of one another when so much stress is placed on the relationship.

That's just my two cents, from what I've gathered over the years. I don't think you can blame just Yoko, or just Paul, or one argument... It was probably a consistently stressful situation, that just eventually all added up.

I'll try to respond to most of the poster here.
As for John thrashing Yoko and visa-versa many insiders have said this. Yoko supposedly beat up John when he didn't stand-up for her to sing at The Concert For Bengla Desh. Eyewitnesses swear she beat him up and broke his glasses and John stormed off mad and took the first flight out to save his pride. And there are many occasions when it is said John beat up Yoko. One thing is on record- Ringo admitted he beat-up Barbara Bach and left her for dead in a pool of blood. I saw the interview and it was Ringo.
Yep- make no doubt about it. The Beatles were true Northern England mates and beat-up their women when they felt like it. Cynthia Powell talks about how John would beat her up. She was told to stay locked up in the house and not come out. When John came home he mostly spent all day high on pot and in the mode of an only child Turtle watching TV with a blank expression with Cynthia waiting for some attention. John ignored Julian and said he give him as much love, money and time as he was given by his dad Fred- nothing. This comes from Lennon interviews when he was in honesty mode and not trying to get people off his backs. Remember Lennon did not like A Hard Day's Night because he said it was a very dishonest cute gay man's version of what happened to the Bealtes when it was really nightly wildness and orgies with all sorts of girls many clearly underage. And the Beatles didn't use rubbers so as determined by the British courts they have god knows how many bastards floating around. The courts ruled that they owed 5 pounds each and a baby carriage and that the mothers/bastards could not contact them. It was well known by the press at the time that
a grandfather was following Paul on tour and trying to beat him up or kill him because he did not pay any support or give any time to his underage daughter who he got pregnant. Mal Evans would bring these girls back stage when they were hysterical and the Beatles would undress them and you get the picture...
Sometimes they supposedly did it at the same time. I wonder who was in front and who was in back. So don't believe the sanitized versions. Lennon has said many times they are lies and he hates them. The Beatles learnt to be wild in Hamburg and I think they topped Motley Crew in the process.
John would say stuff like boredom when he didn't want people to bug him about the break-up. That's his turtle only child side wanting to be left alone. You know the parent figure- in this case Aunt Mimi- over him a lot because there are no other children causing him to make that his issue later in life. But realize this. John told Paul it's all about the money and how you screwed us over the few times Paul showed up unannuounced after the break-up to visit him. Of course before John had him thrown out. John greatly wanted to get to go off from Yoko and have groupies and other Rock experiences with the Beatles in a live situation- despite his anxiety about whether or not the Beatles would look cool. That's one of the big reasons why Yoko threw him the bone of May Pang. It's that Oriental/Japanese deal of deferentianting between a sex/love relationship while Yoko got the control she wanted as an independent woman away from John. And more but that's not important now. John just wanted to go back to the good old days with the groupies and other types of times. No John NEVER grew up. He did get anxious at times and retreated- something that was heighted by the pot. But that's not the same as growing up. Although it did sound mature when he said it in interviews. Yes John had issues with Paul from day one of meeting him. Paul is a spin master a-hole for saying that about John and Primal therapy. Note he didn't have the guts to lie like that when John was alive. But Mick Jagger will tell you that as long as the other musicians in his scene knew him Paul was in so many words a spin master poser and considered really uncool. Jagger says no one who was in that scene pays attention to what he says. We just ignore him. Jagger says I was there and I know what really happened. Just ignore him. Yes George use to follow John around Liverpool like a kid brother begging him to do stuff with him when John was trying to look cool for the mates or make time with the many birds that were easily within walking distance of his house. John was right by all sorts of pubs, clubs, theaters, cinemas and so on and lots of birds. Sailors and kids would teach him Rock and Roll too. So he had a lot on his mind and was annoyed by George. Yes George hated how John and Paul treated him and as a Beatle kept him down and didn't give him the ability to write more songs and so on. To show the extent of the under the radar Beatle to Beatle rips that are undetected by the posters on this sight rips try this one. After Paul came out of George's funeral he said with almost no emotion and not coming close to sheding a tear- you know we use to treat George just like a kid brother. What you have to realize is that George was very furious about this treatment and it was a source of great animosity between him and John and Paul. So that was a major dig. This is well documented and not one persons take. All of what I say is well documented in one place or another. It's not my 2 cents. AND TAKE NOTE- George was very hurt when John smashed him over Hare Krisna and other things- comments that started in the 70s and that are even stated in the song "I Found Out". Therefore George exacted revenge by talking trash about Yoko. Why- he knew that would hurt John the most. But don't always believe the Beatle's words- they Rocked and Rolled each other on a fairly regular basis and Paul in particular is a major spin master for his own image. Having said that John and Ringo come off as the most honest. Ringo is so honest that he admits to beating up Barbara Bach and leaving her for dead in a pool of blood- albeit he says he was too high and drunk to remember what happened. I saw him say it and that is definately RIngo. But it is well known that the Beatles would beat their women if they didn't stay home and just wait for them for as long as it took for them to come home from being the boys. But Ringo's comment? Now that's some Rock and Roll honesty. Also Paul was not bored with the Beatles. He not so secretly was desperate to keep the band going and really wanted to tour again and get back to the fun on the road, performing and pulling birds. John secretly wanted to keep the band going badly. He was estatic about performing in Toronto and wanted to revisit the fun he had on tour before- especially the Hamburg side of it. And if you think the Hamburg side is the stereotype of grown-up- think again. It's the opposite. Not even Motley Crew went as far as the Beatles did in Hamburg. But John would never admit these things if it meant letting Paul screw him in a non Beatle like way. Or let Paul make him look bad. His Northern English pride was too great. George was tired of being in the background and told he played guitar wrong and needed to be replaced among other things. He was ready to leave and record the songs that became All Things Must Pass plus maybe Hare or whatever. He wanted more control- so yes George was ready to move on.
But in his solo stage he was drinking heavily, probably smoking major pot and screwing like everybody's friends wife and breaking up countless marriages. Patti leaving him made him go wild. He also is linked to many hookers who claim they had to stop when he played the Ukilalie. But that one really is speculation. Ringo on the other hand would have loved to go on as a happy family unit. But he didn't want the fights. But he would have loved to continue. No the Beatles were not super bored and grown-up. That is just pride and ego talk to look Rock and Roll cool. It's RNR spin mode and is fairly common among bands. And just look at John's behavior after the Beatles- check it out on the internet. This is not the behavior of a man who has grown-up. It is the behavior of a man who has grown-down. But point is yes that and other issues. But read on-
Read here and ye'll find the real broke the straw of the camel's back reason for the break-up. Paul has tried to prevent this story from coming out. But it is suppose to be the truth-
The original plan was for the John to produce experimental or whatever with Yoko and record with The Plastic Ono Band some and then return to the Beatles. The Beatles were not to break-up but become a part time group that also toured as well. But the problem with money is the real reason why the band broke-up for good. The idea that Yoko broke-up the band is the lie of Yoko haters and Paul supporters who want to protect him. The Rock (I.E.non dead weight/lawyer) Beatle insiders will tell you that many birds were headaches for the members of the band. This stems back to the Liverpool days. In general groupies/birds of one member in a band are a big "drag" for the other members. It was the same when Billy Joe Royal brought his chick/wife on tour with him with Greenday and she acted like a cool Punk (is Greenday Punk- I think not!) bigshot. Yoko is no different. Usually members FU cool these chicks and eventually get over it- albeit fairly badly in some cases. That was suppose to be the case with the Beatles. The real issue has to do with money. First of all John decided to allow Brian Epstein to become manager of the band because he found out he was the son of the richest family in England and he thought that as a Jew Epstein could force the Beatles to become the biggest band in England. Epstein is another piece of work story but the point is when George Martin signed a contract just before they were about to fire Epstein things changed quickly. Eppie stayed as manager and finally in 1963 the Please single/album went #1 in England. At this point Epstein got together with his friends. Apparently In England you didn't or even still don't need the signature of all parties to make a contract legal. So "Eppie" signed away every penny of the Beatle's money to his friends and himself and gave all future song rights to the guy who wrote the theme to Robin Hood- his only big song. I forget his name. But this guy would have himself photographed with top champagne and a cigar in his mouth while holding something Beatle as an FU to the Beatles. In return the Beatles got zero cents and the only money they made as Beatles was from the kick backs of promoters of concerts. Oh and they gave them some spending cash- say for John to get Cynthia's mother in law to go away and buy antiques or for the boys to play cards. Otherwise they had no money and got everything for free. Finally John told the "dead weights" who stole his money that either they buy the Beatles stuff like Mansions or he would expose them to the public. So that is how the Beatles got big houses and say the psychadelic Rolls Royce.
But after "Eppie" died of the overdose there was a dispute over the money. The interum lawyers were refusing to give the Beatles anything. Lawyers told the Beatles to establish tax shelters as a legal base to get back their cash. First John wanted to create some island somewhere where Hippies could have a free community with a whole world for them. I guess then he'd look authentic and not commercial to the cool crowd. The Lawyers said the Beatles were broke and blocked the idea. The Beatles also tried to buy the rights for The Hobbit and Lord Of The Rings (which they loved) so they could make money off the project. Again the people in charge did not want to pay the price and the result is the current triology of Rings which took a long while to get to make and has a huge back story that begins with the Beatles losing it. Somehow the Beatles got Apple Corp. instead. But as you should know it lost money big and the Beatles went more and more in debt. They dumped most of the company fast. John was now worried about what was going to happen if he was no longer a Beatle and out of cash. So he got a Jewish lawyer named Allen Klein who handled Rock and Roll stuff and was real tough. Klein cursed out the corporate people and was very aggressive. But he was also shady and Paul claimed that he didn't trust him. Enter Linda Eastman. Linda's father was the top copyright lawyer in England. Linda- like a lot of rich kids of the day, when you could do this- had a life following around Rock stars in a hands on way. Maybe in exchange for sex she would get to take their pictures. Anyway- one day the Beatles official photographer was not available for a photo shoot. The Beatle's guy at the Apple office called around and some Rock star who was with Linda recommended her. During the shoot Linda hung around John and tried to get him. John thought she was a bad groupie and ditched her. But Paul was tipped off that her father was the copyright man. Paul was upset that he was screwed out of the rights to his own songs. So this was his big chance. At the time the woman rumored to be Paul's one and only true love Jane Asher had left him for good. She was already mad about the stories of him knocking up underage groupies. Then there was the issue that she was in the premer Shakesperean acting troupe and appeared in other mediums including Roger Coreman's classic film Masque Of The Red Death. As a Northern England man-Paul demanded that Asher always stay at home while he was gone with the mates and birds and wait for him.
Finally the last straw was when she caught Paul pulling a bird yet again. This is chronicled in the song "She Came In Through The Bathroom Window". The Apple Scruffs (as in the Harrison song of the same name)- gay guys and girls who spent their life following the Beatles- were stationed at Paul's house. They had some kind of walkie talkie to inform him that Asher was coming back but were unable to contact him. So one chick Scruff comes in through the bathroom window and hits a silver spoon on the way down. She is too late to stop Paul in the act. Asher catches Paul and throws out the bird. The bird's clothes and whatever else go out with her. Asher never came back. Asher was obsessed with Scottish horses. So Paul got revenge by marrying Linda fast and buying show Scottish horses and a top Scottish ranch. Paul took photos of himself and Linda on the horses and had the photos placed in the actor's trade paper that Asher read. Paul didnt ride horses other than to impress Asher. But Paul had another reason for marrying Linda. Now he had a father in law who was the top copyright lawyer. Paul let John think that Allen Klein was going to be the Beatle's lawyer in the suit surrounding who would get the group's money post Brian. Paul made a secret deal with Eastman. In exchange for giving up all ability for the other three Beatles to make any money off the group Paul got a large share of the Beatle's money plus the start of a very profitable song catalogue. In return he agreed that the Beatles would record two albums and perform one world tour a year. Apparently he did not need the other Beatle's signatures to make this legal. When John finally heard what happened even he couldn't believe Paul would stab the others that far in the back. Paul was already considered the asshole control freak poser of the band and the other three often isolated him as a result. Paul had been able to unofficially take leadership of The Beatles from John because he was too stoned on acid and heroin. But John figured that even Paul wouldn't do this. It was one for all and all for one- the Four Muskateers against the dead weights. But Paul said something along the lines that you're just jealous because I beat you out. John said something like you've gone too far Paulie and I want a divorce. It's over for good. Paul was worried because when John acted that indifferent way it meant he was finished for good with something and would never go back on his word. Paul tried the Toppermost speech that is a joke about the British pop scene when the group first got big. John was indifferent. Paul then thought he could get George and Ringo on his side and make them persuade John to carry on after the interum that was scheduled after Abbey Road. Abbey Road was meant to be the end of the first part of the Beatles' Career. Side One is what they were doing individually at the time. Side Two is coming out of the legal meetings (Here Comes The Sun/You Never...), looking at the clouds (Because) and going into a recollection of their past loves (medley) and how in the end they gave as much as they took and would be back later for phase two. Instead Abbey was a farewell for the band. When Paul finally realized that the band was over and George and Ringo were going to side with John not him, he was crushed. But Paul- ever the super PR spinner- decided that the best thing to do was to pretend like he was breaking up the group for the right reasons and look like the hero. He announced this to the press without the other Beatles. Paul returned to his new Scottish ranch. He admits that at this time he was secretly depressed about breaking up the band. He claims that he constantly drank and lay around drunk in the grass. There are photos of this. Sometimes he turned on a 4 track recorder and recorded himself- the bits and songs that later became Mc.Cartney. The other 3 never forgot Paul for stabbing them in the back- especially John. John feuded with Paul about the issue for the rest of his life. George and Ringo pretty much ignored him. But the break-up did enable the other three to utilize a few loopholes to recover some money. Also people were able to set-up additional sources of income for them. People in Paul's camp have spread the Yoko broke-up the Beatle's story often as a means to hide their shady deals with Paul. But that is the real story of the break-up. Don't believe the hype, now you know the truth.
If you want to know more about the real Beatles start with The Love You Make by Peter Brown. It has largely been squealched by Paul and his camp. People in his camp will say it's all lies. But you might get lucky and find a copy at 1/2 Price Books. In my mind it's a fascinating and eye opening story of the boys and people during their career. Albeit the trip to Spain between "Eppie" and John can only be speculation- albeit speculation from the mouth of "Eppie"- it largely reads as authentic and maybe people back up the stories in it including George Martin who is very credible. Returning from dying on the hospital table to passing out with a heroin needle in your arm for 2 days or so aside it makes you think that the Fab have got Motley Crew beat. Very gear!
So to sum up- yes there are a lot of different stories about the Beatles. But based on the sum of what I have read and observed and apparently I am more knowledgable on this than you posters- which isn't exactly something you should be bragging/proud about btw- there is a lot of truth in my version.
And Mc.Cartney does drop little hints that this is the true version and winks for the true Beatle dorks like me. For example he has said that he was passed out in the grass in his ranch from drinking all day in and out over breaking up the Beatles and how depressed he was that he knew that despite how he spinned it he was really the man who broke up the band. It's like how he drops the Black and White Minstril Show reference in his Say Say Say video. That's to let the mes know that yes it's 100% true. For those of you who want the don't ask in my trivia here you go-
During his days as a Beatle at least as late as 1968 Paul would have over his friends for what he called the Paul Mc.Cartney Black & White Minstril Show. Paul would have sex with a white hooker. Then he'd get up and do his oh yeah routine while running to the other side of the room and to another bed. There he would have sex with a black hooker. And the crowd would cheer wildly for him. You ask him about this stuff now and Paul will get all tight faced and p***** off looking and say we'll have lunch and I'll tell you all the good stuff or something close to that. That's Paul telling you that yes it's true and wouldn't you love to know all the details. C'mon this is Rock and Roll people not A Hard Day's Night. There Rock and Roll stars from the macho side of Northern England where they grew-up around
teddy boy gangs with Toughs who might beat you up and sexually active chicks. In Hamburg they were on uppers given to them by the sailors in the crowd to keep them going. They would bounce off the walls for 3-5 days at a time. There were hookers at the side of the stage. During their 8-12 hour sets they would pull down their pants and snog them bearback minus Pete Best. Their like Motley Crew not A Hard Day's Night. Back then in certain parts of the world wild stuff went on that was not reported and the Beatles were at the top of it. Paul is a very aggressive man in beating out other people and super competitive. He would not and will not stop at screwing his mates to get ahead even if it meant leaving them penniless. Albeit through the break-up, loopholes and other means the other 3 got a lot of it back.
Donny
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"I Don't Care Too Much For Money"
"Toppermost To The Poppermost boys"
- Paul Mc.Cartney, the man who broke-up The Beatles.
"All I want is the truth"- John Lennon
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[size="1"][ Mar 13, 2004, 03:03 AM: Message Edited By: MAYNARD ][/size]

I can't wait to read the replies on this one.