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Old Mar 19, 2003, 01:24 PM   #1
SleepyHead
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

I agree, Rocky Rabbit.

I HATE war. It is an effort in futility - but in my opinion, Bush's administration, and those in the intervening years have bent over backwards to use the diplomatic approach.

It hasn't worked. For a country that was supposed to have disarmed 12 years ago, Iraq (still under the same leadership as it was 12 years ago) poses a threat not only by it's continued possession of weapons of war, but by it's adding to those possessions, and by it's demonstrated alliances with those who (like them) are anti-American and anti-democracy.

Hussein got a slap on the wrist by a modern day disciplinist 12 years ago - he was told to clean his room, and when he didn't instead of getting his butt royally spanked, he got "timed out". He threw out the inspectors, and the UN hasn't done one damned thing to insist it's directives be followed.

When Bush calls 'em on the carpet for their weak-handed lack of control, he's lashed by others who also insist that ultimatums should be averted because "they're trying to disarm".

When I see Hussein buckling in for the long haul, I no longer need photos of his weapons' stash - anyone foolish enough to refuse to back down in front of ever-growing US weaponry and soldiers in his own front yard definitely feels he has the firepower to hold his own.

These are not the actions of a man or a country who is or who has "tried to disarm".

When you stick that brat in a corner, take away his cable, his telephone, his desert and even send him to bed without dinner, and he still insists on performing in the same manner that earned him discipline in the first place, it's time to bust that kid's rear-end. It's time to get rid of Hussein once and for all.
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Old Mar 19, 2003, 03:34 PM   #2
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

I feel the war is wrong, and as an American, I have to say my country is wron for fighting it.

The facts do not support war--it's gone from Saddam has nukes, to Saddam is devolping them,to Saddam wants them,to Saddam is throwing acid on babies.

I truly beleive Bush is bent on Armageddon, that he is crazy enough to believe that God has assigned him a mission to reshape the world in the image of the U.S.A. and that a huge number of innocent people will die.

I also do not beleive Bush gave diplomacy a chance, since 9-11 they have been trying to pin 9-11 on Saddam and turn a blind eye to the truth of the Saudi funding it.
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Old Mar 19, 2003, 03:49 PM   #3
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

I know I don't participate much in political issues around here, but I do have an opinion.

Now, I ain't too informed much on these type of things so bear with me. I do not think we should be going into war. Spending all this money and what not is bad for the economy. It's bad as it is. That means prices will sky-rocket(like they already aren't) and for hard-working American families as mine and everyone eles's will just have to pay more just to get by. Plus, war is such a bad thing.
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Old Mar 19, 2003, 06:27 PM   #4
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

I already said all I had to say about the war, my opinions and my feelings about this.

It's understandanle the fact of you're scared about that coward named Hussein or any other guy who could attack your country. In the same way that I think in te people of Afghanistan and I wish they could live in peace, I hope you ccan do it too. The big most of american people is very very nice, I have lots of friends from there, people who I met in Internet or people who I met here in my country, you deserve more than fights all the time, you deserve more than a person as Bush in the governement.

He lies but your need of security blocks your eyes, he's not making anything for you. He's selling your lifes. He's just getting all the world being against him and being against your country, believe me, you could see the first force on the world but nobody believes in America these days, and it's sad because the people of your country is not doing anything bad, Bush does, he's ruining the life of half world spoiling the economy, making wars in everywhere, millions of people has lost their jobs, their lifes, their safety, their homes, their minds.

A person as him, who plays with your feelings, with your fears and who is washing your heads is more dangerous than a coward guy with moustache.

Let's open our eyes, killing people is never a solution, the violence is not the only way to take Hussein out of Iraq. Let's use our brains and not our guns.

For yourself, for your family, for all the world.
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Old Mar 19, 2003, 06:31 PM   #5
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

Quote:
Let's open our eyes, killing people is never a solution, the violence is not the only way to take Hussein out of Iraq. Let's use our brains and not our guns.
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Well said!
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Old Mar 19, 2003, 11:22 PM   #6
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Default The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

Well, it pretty much looks like war is around the corner. So I'm opening up this topic for you guys to discuss your OPINIONS about the war.

I'm not talking about real news or specific events, like the start of the war or Iraq surrendering. Although we don't want 1,000 topics throughout the forum about the war, I'm sure major things will happen that you'll want to discuss.

But the minute ANY of those discussions turn into the usual nasty political arguments, I'm going to close them. Obviously, there are a few members out there who feel very strongly about certain political things, and I'd like to keep those opinions in here, and IN HERE ONLY.

So....uh....have at it...
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Old Mar 19, 2003, 11:45 PM   #7
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

Well I guess I'll throw my opinion in.
Without trying to offend anyone I'm glad that we are going to take out Saddam Hussein.
NO - I'm not glad to be at war!
NO - I'm not glad people will die!
NO - I don't neccesary believe that we have a legal right to do this!

But Saddam needs taken out and I have never hated anyone but I really hope he is killed.That may sound evil to some people but thats exactly what Saddam is and I honestly believe he DESERVES to die.
This is only MY opinion and I hope people understand that and don't attack me for wishing a fellow human dead.

Finally I just want to say I fully support all the allied forces about to go into action - my thoughts are with you all!
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Old Mar 20, 2003, 12:56 AM   #8
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

I suppose many opinions that are anti-war are based on a personal fear. Fear of what would happen if unthinkable things happen. Fear of if you are called upon to defend your country, fear of armageddon.

I should know, I was one of them. My main reason for being anti-war was because of fear. I was afraid that civilians would start to be called up to help fight the war and I would be carted off to the middle East.

And that's selfish of me.

But it doesn't mean that Saddam shouldn't go. He's played along for too long and he must be (Dr. Evil voice here folks) "Eliminated".

However, the reasonings given by George and Tony have been very shaky, and I believe that it is this that has made so many people anti-war. They don't know the full story, and so have been allowed to created rumours about oil and greed. If George and Tony had been straight to their public at the beginning then people would understand why war was necessary.

For example, somebody said that George was quoted as saying that Saddam will be easy to topple since he has a depleated weaponary, yet the whole reason for war is because Saddam is hiding weapons of mass destruction - something that is clearly a contradiction.

The other thing that upsets people is that the war is not 'justified' - i.e. the UN could not settle on a definitive outlook on the scenario. Some could argue (including myself) that if the evidence to go to war was that strong, how come the UN didn't fully go ahead? Surely some doubt must be there otherwise the 2nd resolution would have gone through.

But then again, there's Jac Shirrac (I don't know if I've spelt that right, so forgive me if I haven't) who was going to defy the UN whatever happened, regardless of the evidence and there's Poutin in Russia that held the same stance. Only two countries didn't think we should go to war, and one of them wasn't going to vote for it in any instance.

It's all shaky at the moment. Let's hope the gamble pays off.
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Old Mar 20, 2003, 02:07 AM   #9
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

Well, lessee... according to Iraq's own weapons report, submitted to the UN on 8 December 2002, these are the statistics:

IRAQ DECLARATION

Documentation includes:

11,807 pages of information

1,334 on biological weaponry

1,823 on chemical weaponry

6,887 on missiles

Plus 12 CD-ROMs containing 529 megabytes of information

This is what the UN inspectors were supposed to rely upon to "prove" that Iraq had disarmed itself. It is insufficient, to say the least.

Blix said in his report to the Security Council last month (February 14, 2003) that Iraq's inability to prove it destroyed its stock of chemical and biological weapons is "perhaps the most important problem we are facing."

Proof that Iraq destroyed its VX and anthrax stocks is included in the six benchmarks proposed by Britain as a way to measure Iraq's compliance with U.N. resolutions. It is also one of five conditions presented in a compromise proposed by Chile.

Iraqi compliance has divided the Security Council since shortly after it sent weapons inspectors back into the country to look for signs of chemical, biological and nuclear weapons program, which Iraq was ordered to dismantle in the agreement that ended the Persian Gulf War in 1991. Iraq said it has destroyed the weapons but has not been able to prove it in the case of the VX and anthrax.

As much as 1,000 tons of VX are unaccounted for. Iraq also cannot account for as much as 2,245 gallons (8,500 liters) of anthrax.

VX, a colorless liquid that turns into gas, prevents the transmission of nerve signals, causing loss of muscle control, respiratory paralysis and death. Anthrax is an acute infectious disease caused by the spore-forming bacterium Bacillus anthracis. The spore produces a toxin that can be fatal.

Now, let's consider the first part of UN Resolution 1441, passed on November 8, 2002:
Quote:
Text of U.N. resolution on Iraq
Friday, November 8, 2002 Posted: 2:17 PM EST (1917 GMT)

The Security Council,

Recalling all its previous relevant resolutions, in particular its resolutions 661 (1990) of 6 August 1990, 678 (1990) of 29 November 1990, 686 (1991) of 2 March 1991, 687 (1991) of 3 April 1991, 688 (1991) of 5 April 1991, 707 (1991) of 15 August 1991, 715 (1991) of 11 October 1991, 986 (1995) of 14 April 1995, and 1284 (1999) of 17 December 1999, and all the relevant statements of its President,

Recalling also its resolution 1382 (2001) of 29 November 2001 and its intention to implement it fully,

Recognizing the threat Iraq's noncompliance with Council resolutions and proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and long-range missiles poses to international peace and security,

Recalling that its resolution 678 (1990) authorized Member States to use all necessary means to uphold and implement its resolution 660 (1990) of 2 August 1990 and all relevant resolutions subsequent to Resolution 660 (1990) and to restore international peace and security in the area...
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Iraq has utterly failed to comply with all of the above resolutions - and as God as my witness, the war which has begun in Iraq will bear out the continuance of Iraq to hold weapons of mass of destruction. In the face of such vacillations on the part of the UN, Bush had no choice but to withdraw the proposed resolution for war, which would in effect restrict us to acting upon that resolution alone. We have 17 prior resolutions, considered by the UN as continuing to be valid, which give us the absolute authority necessary as an authorized Member State to "use all necessary means to uphold and implement (the UN's) resolution 660 (1990) of 2 August 1990 and all relevant resolutions subsequent to Resolution 660 (1990)"

All posturing aside, this resolution required Iraq to comply immediately with each and every one of the previously ordered resolutions, and to do so within 30 days.

How many days has it been since November 8, 2002?

Russia won't attack a country that owes it $6 billion dollars in war debts, and France has over $60 billion worth of oil contracts with Iraq - their positions were foreseen as untractable, but Bush went forward with the attempt to make the UN get up off it's collective butt and carry out it's own resolutions to appease the other Member States.

It didn't matter, though, did it - the rejection of the proposal by France even before the Iraqis did was enough to start that backhall whispering of others afraid to interfere in other nation's politics.

Except this isn't strictly politics - the Iraqi nation has been operating illegally under UN imposed sanctions for over 12 years while the UN twiddled it's collective thumbs and said, "Short of war, how do we make them comply?"

Short of war, we didn't.

Now, it's war.
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Old Mar 20, 2003, 02:33 AM   #10
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

In a 1997 report based on UN weapons inspectors findings in Iraq...

Quote:
Monday, November 10, 1997 Published at 17:38 GMT

Special Report

Iraq's weapons of mass destruction

What does Iraq have?

Nuclear weapons

Iraq is believed to have come close to developing a workable nuclear device shortly before the Gulf War, in violation of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty to which it is a signatory.

Ballistic missiles

Between 1975 and 1990, Iraq imported over 800 Scud B missiles and 11 mobile launchers from the Soviet Union. Iraq has admitted to having produced 8 mobile launchers and 28 fixed launch pads itself, and an additional 28 fixed launch pads under construction were discovered by UNSCOM. It has evidence to suggest that since the Gulf War, Iraq had continued to develop its ballistic missile capacity. A shipment of advanced missile gyroscopes was intercepted in 1995 in neighbouring Jordan. It is thought that Iraq could still be hiding between 6 and 16 proscribed missiles.
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">SCUD missiles were among those weapons Iraq was ordered to dismantle. I said that this war would bear out the fact that Iraq continues to harbor it's weaponry, but I wasn't envisioning being proven of it this early...

Quote:
U.S. military: Patriot missile intercepts Scud
Thursday, March 20, 2003 Posted: 6:09 AM EST (1109 GMT)

KUWAIT CITY (CNN) -- A U.S. Patriot missile knocked an Iraqi Scud out of the sky Thursday afternoon about two hours after two other Scuds landed without injury near the U.S. forces' main logistics center in the Kuwaiti desert, the military said.

The first incident happened at about 10:30 a.m., local time, when a "missile-like" object hurtled past Camp Iwo Jima about 300 feet away. The Marines who got the best look at the object said it was self-propelled and green with yellow stripes, said CNN's Sanjay Gupta, who is with the Iwo Jima Marines.

Gupta said the camp was quickly ordered into bunkers and told to put on gas masks, followed by the announcement "missiles inbound."

From the bunker, people could not see where the object landed, but they heard a loud boom to the south, between the camp and Kuwait City.

Gupta said they also heard several "thuds" from the north, and a Marine came by and said that "hits have been confirmed."

A Marine spokesman later told Gupta there were no casualties and confirmed that more than one Iraqi missile flew over their position, landing at 10:28 a.m. south of the camp near Camp Commando.

The missiles did not contain chemical or biological agents, the spokesman said.

About two hours after the Scud attack, air raid sirens sounded in Kuwait City and the Marines were again sent to their bunkers.

Gupta had just finished a live report on CNN when the Iwo Jima's PA announcer ordered everyone into bunkers for the second time. The camp got an "all clear" after a few minutes, but were quickly ordered back in for the third time. He was preparing for a live report when the third order came, followed shortly afterward by the "all clear."

CNN's Bill Hemmer said Kuwait City got an "all clear" after about 30 minutes.

CNN's Ryan Chilcote, embedded with the U.S. Army's 101st Airborne Division, said two military sources confirmed that a Patriot missile had been fired at an incoming missile to the north.

Walter Rodgers, CNN correspondent embedded with the Army's 7th Cavalry near the Iraqi border, said commanders there feared an artillery barrage and ordered everyone into full chemical suits and gas masks.

Gupta also reported seeing a Marine medivac helicopter take off from about Camp Iwo Jima.

The helicopter flew to the northwest, Gupta said, in the direction of the Iraq-Kuwait border and has not returned.

-- CNN Radio Correspondent John Bisney contributed to this report
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">If he's still got SCUDs, wonder what else he's got planned for us Zionist criminals?
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Old Mar 20, 2003, 02:34 AM   #11
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

"Iraq has utterly failed to comply with all of the above resolutions - and as God as my witness, the war which has begun in Iraq will bear out the continuance of Iraq to hold weapons of mass of destruction. In the face of such vacillations on the part of the UN, Bush had no choice but to withdraw the proposed resolution for war, which would in effect restrict us to acting upon that resolution alone. We have 17 prior resolutions, considered by the UN as continuing to be valid, which give us the absolute authority necessary as an authorized Member State to "use all necessary means to uphold and implement (the UN's) resolution 660 (1990) of 2 August 1990 and all relevant resolutions subsequent to Resolution 660 (1990)"

Exactly Sleepyhead,I totally agree with you on the above.Only this morning they are firing scud missiles at Kuwait which some Iraqis have claimed they never had.Maybe this will provide a wake up call to some members of this forum and the world!
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Old Mar 20, 2003, 02:40 AM   #12
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

I support this war and the leadership that Tony Blair has shown. I'm not much of a Bush fan. You can only send in weapons inspectors for so long. Saddam is a master of dragging things out. It is time that he was toppled and I hope the allied forces do it.
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Old Mar 20, 2003, 04:23 AM   #13
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

This war is wrong. Simple, isn´t it?
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Old Mar 20, 2003, 05:54 AM   #14
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

Quote:
Originally Posted By smilie:
This war is wrong. Simple, isn´t it?
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">The war is a lot of things but simple it is not.
People need to realise that this war will do a lot of good long term for the ordinary people of Iraq and surely that alone is a good thing,is'nt it?.
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Old Mar 20, 2003, 06:18 AM   #15
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

Quote:
Originally Posted By Rocky Rabbit:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Originally Posted By smilie:
This war is wrong. Simple, isn´t it?
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">The war is a lot of things but simple it is not.
People need to realise that this war will do a lot of good long term for the ordinary people of Iraq and surely that alone is a good thing,is'nt it?.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">It'll either be a new dictator or 3 to 4 Islamic republics....the main reasoon I fear what happen when Ba'ath is gone is like Tito in Yugioslavia, they are holding the country together...I was saddeneded by the fallout of post-Communist Yugoslavia and am fearful this will happen..we'll get rid of a stable government for a group of tribal,unstable states and cause a bloody civil war.

[size="1"][ Mar 20, 2003, 07:19 AM: Message Edited By: Tim ][/size]
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Old Mar 20, 2003, 07:24 AM   #16
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

You don't get peace through war, Mr. Bush! Terrorism is the war of the poor ones and what you're doing is nothing else than terrorism of the rich people: war.

I'm not for Hussein!!!!! Not at all! But I'm for the people. I agree, the people of the Iraq should get another goverment. But does Bush really think that these people wanna lose friends, family and house to get that? Does he really think that they accept that their city and country is going to be destroyed? How can he claim that the civilian population won't be involved and hurt? This is just ridiculous!
I'm shocked and angry that it is possible for a country starting a war with most of the other countries against it. Weren't/aren't the US the ones who supporte/d democracy? This is an egotistical game the americans are playing.

War is not the answer!
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Old Mar 20, 2003, 07:46 AM   #17
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

Quote:
Originally Posted By Tim:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Originally Posted By Rocky Rabbit:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Originally Posted By smilie:
This war is wrong. Simple, isn´t it?
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">The war is a lot of things but simple it is not.
People need to realise that this war will do a lot of good long term for the ordinary people of Iraq and surely that alone is a good thing,is'nt it?.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">It'll either be a new dictator or 3 to 4 Islamic republics....the main reasoon I fear what happen when Ba'ath is gone is like Tito in Yugioslavia, they are holding the country together...I was saddeneded by the fallout of post-Communist Yugoslavia and am fearful this will happen..we'll get rid of a stable government for a group of tribal,unstable states and cause a bloody civil war.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Maybe I misunderstand but are you calling the government of Iraq stable!!!!
A stable government does not take rights away from its people!
It does not kill people for talking out of line!
I must say Tim I find some of your opinions very disturbing.
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Old Mar 20, 2003, 08:07 AM   #18
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

To be completely honest with you, I'm not informed enough on the current political situation to have an opinion on whether or not the war is appropriate or not. I haven't had time to do the necessary reading and research and I don't form opinions on the bits of hearsay that I catch on the fly.

That said, it kind of bugs me when people walk around saying "War is not the answer" and "Give Peace A Chance" and other slogans like that. Slogans are all nice and fine, but it's just not that simple. Just people saying "Give Peace a Chance" isn't going to CHANGE anything and if someone says war is not the answer, then I'd like to know what that person thinks IS the answer.

Ok, back to those with more informed opinions now.... [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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Old Mar 20, 2003, 09:08 AM   #19
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY



It's good being patriotic......



But it's better to help people to survive and no to die. I think they need food and not guns. Don't you think so? [img]graemlins/thinker.gif[/img]

[size="1"][ Mar 20, 2003, 10:09 AM: Message Edited By: leonardobeat ][/size]
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Old Mar 20, 2003, 09:18 AM   #20
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Default Re: The War In Iraq - OPINIONS ONLY

Quote:
Originally Posted By leonardobeat:


But it's better to help people to survive and no to die. I think they need food and not guns. Don't you think so? [img]graemlins/thinker.gif[/img]
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Yes, i do.
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