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Old Oct 16, 2012, 01:31 PM   #21
wildewoman
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Oh, yes! Some of them are laugh out loud hysterical. And some make my heart ache for him....all sorts of emotions.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 10:11 PM   #22
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Default The John Lennon Letters: Let's Discuss

I'm going just add this review of the book in this thread.

Examiner
10/15/2012
Review: 'The John Lennon Letters' is historical, gives Lennon's words new life

The new book entitled “The John Lennon Letters” consists of almost 300 letters, postcards and notes penned by John Lennon throughout his life.

http://www.examiner.com/review/revie...words-new-life
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 06:34 AM   #23
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I've got my copy and have glanced through it a bit but haven't started reading it proper yet.
I'm finishing up Julia Baird's book and there is an interesting point in when she simply burned all the letters John wrote her in an act of clearing the house before she moved. She only kept two and that was because they were hidden inside books.

She talked about Yoko contacting her at one point (which was rare. Yoko seemed to want them out of the house John bought for them which wasn't very nice) and saying, to her, "But nobody burns John's letters."
To Julia, they were just letters from her brother. To her, he always was and will be her brother.
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 09:32 AM   #24
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Default ...a brother she loved so much she burned his letters like so much rubbish.

There is a letter in there he wrote to Liela where he states he feels his family looks at him in terms of $ and cents. Not that Baird is out for money, but she did write virtually the same book twice, even working with that despicable Geoffrey Guiliano.

BTW, John didn't by houses "for" people--as in giving them title. He held the title to every one of them. This arrangement was made pre-Yoko, people, so don't look at her. He must have had his reasons. He let them live in the houses rent-free, he probably paid for their maintenance, but they weren't gifts as such. Was it "nice" for Yoko to want them out of the house? Probably not, but maybe she had the impression they wanted what they could get from his estate, and acted accordingly.

This goes on in every family when someone dies who has an estate worth mentioning. Everybody wants a piece. Sad but true, and in his case, the bickering is increased because so much else is at stake. Additionally, judging by some of his letters to Liela, it sounds like the Stanley family was quite lively with grudges, feuds, and family politics--everyone trying to remember who wasn't speaking to whom, and all that.
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 10:32 PM   #25
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I don't have the book in front of me, but wasn't there a letter in which John articulated his surprise when he discovered that his sisters actually hadn't spent much time in the house he had purchased for his aunt who was supposedly looking after the girls when Bobby died?

Anyway, wilde... somewhere earlier you said we shouldn't read too much into these letters. But I think a lot of the Mimi/John dynamic was revealed... he complained about her lack of emotional support often, it appears. And who knows, maybe the letters were selectively chosen... but it does seem that John never let go of his resentment where Mimi was concerned, just as he never got over Julia's death.
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 06:54 AM   #26
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Default Did I say that? I must have been in a flippant mood at the time...

...maybe because there was no big letter as juicy and rich as "De Profundis" in the collection. :-) Now [i]that[i] was one tasty missive that provided scholars with enough material to last a lifetime! It was so hot it was locked in the British Museum with the caveat that its contents were not be released to the public for 50 years!

Then again, Oscar Wilde had two years in prison to write that thing. What else are ya gonna do?

But yeah, there is still new material to be gleaned from these letters. You can learn a lot about a person's inner life when they are writing to the fam damily. I have no doubt Mimi never lost her ability to get under John's skin. Even the plant waterer mentioned that over on his page. If John's talking to the guy who waters the plants about how Mimi drove him up the wall with her failure to acknowledge that her boy was, in fact, successful in world terms as well as his own, well, I'd say it's a safe bet that he still had a grudge.
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 04:28 PM   #27
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I got it!!! I got it!!! Ok, I have had it for a bit now. Please let me have some more time. I have been pressured at work to the point that I have to give a f*** and meet the deadlines on actual time. So, please let me have a weekend to look through this HEAVY *** book. I will take it with me to some quiet place that serves decent coffee and take a few hours while Mr. Fly takes the kids on their playdate (a rarity- and he will remind me every day for a year as though he's done it every day of the year).

It will be read and reviewed shortly. I promise.
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 07:10 PM   #28
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Default We are waiting, Fly dear...

and we'll give it another weekend, but I am champing at the proverbial bit, as it were....

I can't wait to discuss it all with you people.

Yeah, this book...well, I, really ...could not wait for Christmas...Townshend's book can wait until then, but not THIS one!!!
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 05:46 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by wildewoman View Post
There is a letter in there he wrote to Liela where he states he feels his family looks at him in terms of $ and cents. Not that Baird is out for money, but she did write virtually the same book twice, even working with that despicable Geoffrey Guiliano.

BTW, John didn't by houses "for" people--as in giving them title. He held the title to every one of them. This arrangement was made pre-Yoko, people, so don't look at her. He must have had his reasons. He let them live in the houses rent-free, he probably paid for their maintenance, but they weren't gifts as such. Was it "nice" for Yoko to want them out of the house? Probably not, but maybe she had the impression they wanted what they could get from his estate, and acted accordingly.

This goes on in every family when someone dies who has an estate worth mentioning. Everybody wants a piece. Sad but true, and in his case, the bickering is increased because so much else is at stake. Additionally, judging by some of his letters to Liela, it sounds like the Stanley family was quite lively with grudges, feuds, and family politics--everyone trying to remember who wasn't speaking to whom, and all that.
I just read Julia's book which is very good and paints a different picture of the house. Yes, I do blame Yoko. She asked for evidence of John letting them live in the house and Julia finally found it (she had burned most of his letters just because she doesn't keep letters which also shocked Yoko. To her, they were from her brother). Julia sent the package with the documents off to Yoko expecting to hear from her. Nothing. Julia called twice. Then got a nasty message from another relative Yoko didn't want her calling
Yoko obviously had something against John's family even telling Julia, "John had nothing to do with you and barely knew you,' Which was not true at all.
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Old Oct 26, 2012, 11:06 PM   #30
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Default John Lennon's letters show singer's flair for rancour

Here is a another review of the book.

The Australian
10/27/2012
Peace off ! John Lennon's letters show singer's flair for rancour

FROM the outside, The John Lennon Letters looks like a feast for Lennon buffs. The book is 400 pages long and as heavy as a paver.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/arts...-1226503090892
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Old Oct 27, 2012, 08:00 AM   #31
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Default Sadly, you need to sign up for an account to read the article...

Not sure I'm willing to do that....thanks for pointing it out to us, though! If there's any Aussies out there who do have an account with that paper, be a love and copy and paste it for the rest of us fans. Thanks!
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Old Oct 27, 2012, 03:39 PM   #32
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I just read Julia's book which is very good and paints a different picture of the house. Yes, I do blame Yoko.
Is there any other 'evidence' besides Julia's own words? Just because she wrote a book and made certain allegations, it doesn't mean that they are true. Same with Cyn's and May's books. Sadly, we don't have much from John himself on the subjects. However, in a letter to Cousin Liela, John wrote the following shortly after Sean's birth:

Quote:
About Julian... I'm lucky if I see/hear him myself. She allowed him over here twice last year... but insisted on coming herself! You can imagine how thrilling that was... she thought she could walk back in coz I wasn't with yoko!! Now we're back together again she stops him phoning me... which he did a lot last year... once a week. He's a bright little boy... a bit 'sneaky' like his dad... but he's gonna need that to survive his mother! Our relationship is pretty good... he knows where I am and what my life is like... he thinks of me a little too much in terms of 'money' etc... which is what cyn and her mother (so called) have taught him (by example). He will run right to me when he's older... we all run somewhere... so I can wait.
Who knows if John's version of events is accurate? What's interesting, however, is that he presents a different perspective on some of the issues that women in his life (Julia, Cyn, May)--all of whom were hurt by John and who, for various reasons, did not like/trust Yoko--have used to make him look bad... especially when it came to issues of Julian and the family back home in the UK.

To me, it's telling that John once again mentioned the 'money' issue, which obviously made some sort of emotional impression on him. And his opinions about why Julian and he were't closer at that time are also interesting. Seeing John's perspective on what has become such an ugly post-1980 issue adds the dimension of complexity that has been missing from the discussion.

I just find that when it comes to other people's family issues, emotions and personal histories come into play, and so it's impossible to know what the "true history" is... and it makes little sense to try and figure it out. You can't just "black and white" the issues when it comes to dealing with human interactions. What's much more interesting and much more telling is to understand the dynamics between people, their motivations, and their perspectives. That reveals much more than trying to ascertain "what happened."
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Old Oct 28, 2012, 11:25 AM   #33
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Default Indeed!

Yes. And in those letters, John mentions the money issue more than once. Tangenitally, I just read a sad article about the late football player Junior Seau (my hometown boy) and how his ex-wife and the mother of his children felt like his extended family looked at him as nothing more than their personal ATM (and that was part of the equation that lead to their eventual divorce.) On the other hand, his family felt that they had made sacrifices prior to his success so he could be successful and that he in fact "owed" it to them. While reading this article, I thought of John's family.

I think it always gets complicated when a family member becomes successful beyond all imagining, and as Oscar Wilde said, "the truth is rarely pure and never simple."

This isn't some play we're watching; everyone involved is a real person and has their own emotional lives.
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 07:42 PM   #34
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My favorite letters are the ones he wrote to Derek. They are typical John... brilliantly playful.

In a letter to Derek dated "July? 1975" he wrote:

Quote:
I'll outlive the bastards in more ways than one (whatever their age)
and also

Quote:
P.S. how does DYLAN ONO LENNON grab ya ...?
I'm not sure who he's talking about in the first quote. It seems like he means record execs and/or music industry people in general. Anyway, he was right. I mean, here's John, on the brink of being "invisible" (as he himself wrote) for 5 years... and he's fully aware of his own immortality. Kind of helps explain the ease with which slipped into that new phase of his life...

And it's interesting to discover he considered naming Sean "Dylan"! Wonder how serious a contender it was. That would have been so cool...
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 11:42 AM   #35
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Default And in Swedish

John Lennon's Letters has already been translated into Swedish!

Here's from the publisher, in Swedish naturally, but following closely the English press release.



Utgivningen av John Lennons brev är en unik publicistisk händelse. Yoko Ono, som inte äger alla breven men väl upphovsrätten, har gett sitt tillstånd att publicera närmare 300 texter. Det rör sig om en fascinerande samling brev, vykort, arga lappar, listor och mycket mer. Allt sammantaget fogas fler pusselbitar till bilden av legenden Lennon. För urval och kommentar står Beatlesbiografen Hunter Davies, som kände John Lennon väl.

Bläck och penna var Lennons instrument likväl som gitarren och rösten. John skrev brev och vykort hela sitt liv: till vännerna, familjen, främlingar, dagstidningar, organisationer, advokater och tvättinrättningar. För det mesta skrev han roligt, informativt, propagerande, klokt, galet, poetiskt, plågat och ibland förkrossande.

Alla dessa brev, vykort, tankar och texter fanns hos samlare, handlare eller i privatpersoners bankfack. Det var ett enormt detektivarbete Hunter Davies ställdes inför när han satte igång med insamlandet. Likafullt som publiceringen av texterna är en publicistisk händelse så är Davies arbete en stor bedrift. Han har organiserat texterna kronologiskt för att bygga upp en biografisk berättelse som speglar Lennons liv. John Lennons brev ger unikt tillträde till tankevärlden hos en av vår tids största personligheter.

Hösten 2012 är det 50 år sedan Beatles spelade in sin första egna skiva: en singel med A-sidan "Love Me Do" och B-sidan P.S. I Love You! John Lennons brev släpps samtidigt runt om i världen i samband med 50-årsjubileet.

John Lennons Brev
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 11:16 AM   #36
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John Lennon's Letters has already been translated into Swedish!

Here's from the publisher, in Swedish naturally, but following closely the English press release.

Thanks for that, hibgal!
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 12:01 PM   #37
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My favorite letters are the ones he wrote to Derek. They are typical John... brilliantly playful.

In a letter to Derek dated "July? 1975" he wrote:



and also



I'm not sure who he's talking about in the first quote. It seems like he means record execs and/or music industry people in general. Anyway, he was right. I mean, here's John, on the brink of being "invisible" (as he himself wrote) for 5 years... and he's fully aware of his own immortality. Kind of helps explain the ease with which slipped into that new phase of his life...

And it's interesting to discover he considered naming Sean "Dylan"! Wonder how serious a contender it was. That would have been so cool...
Dylan Lennon. Not quite as literally musical sounding as Sean Lennon, but a quite evokative musical allusion, I suppose.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 12:02 PM   #38
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...at least John didn't follow up on his threat to name the kid George Washington United States of America Citizen Lennon!
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 01:03 PM   #39
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Dylan Lennon. Not quite as literally musical sounding as Sean Lennon, but a quite evokative musical allusion, I suppose.
John was always the trendsetter. As I recall, it was very trendy in the '90s to name your kid things like Dylan Lennon Marley. Hmmm, now that I think of it, I believe I have a friend who named her baby boy that...
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 05:34 PM   #40
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MUCH better than naming the child Gorme Torme, I suppose...(ducks and runs)
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