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Old Apr 23, 2004, 03:12 AM   #1
Happykim
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Default I\'ve got some fanfics too :o)

Hiya everyone,

For anyone who's interested, I have a few (ongoing) fanfics up on my site. They're mostly Paul-centred (I like to portray the friendship between the boys, NO romance!) and I've rated them PG-13, just in case.

So if anyone's interested, take a look at:
http://www.geocities.com/happykim2/index.html

Love, Kim
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Old Apr 23, 2004, 03:39 AM   #2
HMVNipper
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Default Re: I\'ve got some fanfics too :o)

Welcome, Kim!

Um...can I ask you about your fic? I went and read some of it just now and...I don't know how to put this delicately, but...these stories seem to be of the "Paul in Pain" variety. Definitely not my cuppa... I don't think a rating of PG-13 quite covers it, either...way too violent for my taste.

Maybe it's me, but I can't understand why people would write or want to read this stuff about hurting the Beatles or having people stalk them, especially after what happened to John and George in real life. I'm not criticizing those who do, but I just don't get it or understand the fascination. If you love Paul, why would you write stories about hurting him? Maybe you can enlighten us so we understand better.
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Old Apr 23, 2004, 05:49 AM   #3
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Default Re: I\'ve got some fanfics too :o)

Hiya!

Well, I don't know really, maybe it's just me being a freaky person

Seriously though, I think it's important to keep in mind that it is FICTION. In real life I would never, ever want anything bad to happen to either of the remaining Beatles.

What I like about the "Paul in pain" variety is that it focuses on the bond between the lads. What can I say, I'm a sap I like action, adventure and angst, so that's what I write. Besides, it's all in good fun, definitely not to be taken seriously.

I completely understand why people would not like to read this type of stories and I respect that. That is why I put several warnings on my site that my stories are mostly about Paul in pain (I think I should've also mentioned it here, sorry about that!), because I know not everyone's into this kind of stuff. So, in my opinion, pay attention to the warnings and don't read the stories if they're not your cuppa.

As for the rating, I think PG-13 is quite suitable. My stories are nothing compared to what is shown on tv these days. And I do make sure they're not too gruesome .

But I do totally understand your point of view, HMVNipper. We don't all like the same stuff (thank God!:) ). I mean, I really don't like romance stories (though there are a few excellent ones out there) and I can't imagine what people would like about slash stories. However, I don't judge them; I know I'm not into these things so I just don't read them, it's quite simple really.

In short, I guess some people (like me ) just have a warped mind

I appreciate your honesty HMVNipper and thank you for your comments (don't worry, no hard feelings; everyone's entitled to their own opinion)! Oh, and thank you for the welcome!

Now, for everyone-else I'll just post another warning here:
The stories on my site are mostly Paul in pain fics so if you don't like that, please don't read it!

Right, that's it from me

Love, Kim
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Old Apr 23, 2004, 07:22 AM   #4
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Default Re: I\'ve got some fanfics too :o)

You know that morbid curiosity that makes you slow down at car crashes and taste things when some one's told you its gone off or when you just can't help but look at some poor little creature thats been squashed on the roadside....

Ok, deep breath, very very controversial subject here...

I had a read of a few chapters and... well, I thought Paul in Pain stories were a myth, like snuff movies... Are they just Paul or for the others too? (Poor Paul, whats he ever done to you?)

Anyway, I've got to say, I didn't like it much either. I found it quite uncomfatable to read. I know its only fiction, but these people are real (which is why its quite dodgy altering the character of Paul's dad) and they are quite close to my heart so its like reading about some one you know.

Plus, like Susan (HMVNipper) says in light of what happened to John and George I don't think its quite appropiate.

Its just my opinion. thats all.
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Old Apr 23, 2004, 08:47 AM   #5
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Default Re: I\'ve got some fanfics too :o)

Hey Miss O'Dell,

Nope, Paul in pain's not a myth. There are actually quite a lot out there and a lot of people seem to like them.

Like I said, they're not to be taken seriously. I treat the Beatle characters with the utmost respect, because I know they're real people; I make sure it's not just mindless bashing, there has to be a story behind it. Also, I try my best to keep the Beatles in character.

I don't write these stories because I hate Paul at all (hey, he's my fave!), but you tend to make your fave the centre of your story (well, at least I do). And I'm just one for dramatic plots, as are quite some others. I certainly don't mean to offend anyone.

Of course I understand and respect your opinion, Miss O'Dell, but just don't read the stories if you know you're not going to like them. Oh, and thank you for your honesty, I appreciate it!

Love, Kim
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Old Apr 23, 2004, 09:23 AM   #6
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Default Re: I\'ve got some fanfics too :o)

Fair enough. Thank you for replying and not getting angry. Oh, and welcome to Beatlelinks.
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Old Apr 23, 2004, 01:14 PM   #7
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Default Re: I\'ve got some fanfics too :o)

Hi! Just wanted to chime in. These are not my sort of story either but you do show skill with pacing and structure -- and I appreciate you do allow others to say that without taking it personally.

What really concerns me is that fiction writing about real people should be true to their spirit, to sound authentic.

Mr. McCartney was a solid Father to Paul, not a heavy drinker even after the loss of his wife Mary. What you have here would be interpreted as slander in legal terms by MPL, Paul's corporation. We all want to encourage good, solid Beatles fiction and writing talent. The concern here is that this veers far away from actually being about the real Paul McCartney and his Father, Mr. McCartney (it is so far from how they both would behave and would act in reality, Paul as documented was quite able to take care of himself in terms of his Father and his Father never, ever was an alcoholic) --so the veering off so far makes using their names obsolete and meaningless in terms of this really being a Beatles/Paul fiction piece.

This literally just uses their "names" and does not evoke the McCartneys' true cores to any authentic degree, which good Beatle focused fiction has to do to be engaging.

I understand about artistic license and use of imagination -- again, artistic license only works when keeping to the real persons' spirit you are evoking or "channelling" as the best Beatles fiction does.

Read some of the works on ROOFTOPS perhaps if you have time, such as Angel Godiva's works; her body of work is what I mean about someone evoking the spirit and channelling Real Peoples' spirits well while fully exploring artistic license, and she does so monthly in a consistently well written, and imaginative way. Thanks for listening and again, thanks also for allowing others to share their opinions. That is a talent in and of itself.
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Old Apr 23, 2004, 11:18 AM   #8
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Default Re: I\'ve got some fanfics too :o)

Hello, Kim!
As a writer myself, I am always interested in seeing what others are writing, so I went to your site and had a look.
I have to say that I did not care for what I saw at all; I don't mean to be negative, but honey, you say you love Paul, so I am going to ask you something.
How do you think Paul would feel if he were to read your stories?
The one I read (I should say started to read, because I honestly could not finish reading it) portrayed Paul's father as a drunken, bloodthirsty lout who gained personal satisfaction by using his child as a punching bag.
Kim, I think this portrayal would shock, dismay, disgust, and anger Paul, and I really do not think that it shows the proper respect for a man who was most likely a kind, loving, gentle father. You can usually tell by a man's behavior towards his own children what sort of a dad he had when he was a kid, and Paul seems to me a tender and devoted father. Really, I was very upset by the treatment Mr. McCartney was given, especially since he is not alive to defend himself, and I do feel that if this is my reaction, Paul's, were he to read this piece, would be many times worse.
I would like to encourage you in your pursuit of writing fanfiction, but if this is the sort of thing you want to produce, I can't encourage it at all.
Sorry, but I must be honest.
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Old Apr 23, 2004, 01:13 PM   #9
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Default Re: I\'ve got some fanfics too :o)

[ QUOTE ]
angelgodiva Posted:

The one I read (I should say started to read, because I honestly could not finish reading it) portrayed Paul's father as a drunken, bloodthirsty lout who gained personal satisfaction by using his child as a punching bag.


[/ QUOTE ]

I had a look at the first couple of chapters of this one too. I love Alt.his. and what if fictions, but I don't agree with altering peoples characters (I've only read Beatles fanfics, where the people are real people but even if it was fictional characters like Star Trek or something, I think I would have the same reaction). I think its unethical and while I admit the idea for the story here is viable and could be quite interesting, I would have gone about it in a different way. I would not have used Jim McCartney. I think because Mr Macca Snr has passed away that would curb what legal action could be taken, should Mr Macca Jnr happen upon it, but as Paul has a million gazillion pounds then he could probably get a very big lawyer, so who can say?

Actually, I must admit I am in the middle of writing a fanfic which has a theme not a million miles away from this one... (Don't panic! It is not NOT NOT a Paul in Pain story!!! I promise on my Beatles record collection! ) so maybe if/when I finnish that, that will illustrate my point a little better.

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe there should be no violence but I think it should only exist where warrented and there is no need for it to be gratuitous. Gratuitous scenes, in film or books or whatever, and be it violence, sex or a long discussion of baking cakes, if its un-needed then the writing is sloppy, every scene should forward a plot, but I digress.

(Anglegodiva posted her message just as I was writing mine, saying a simular thing. In fact that was what I was trying to say, but I think she was a little more coherant!)
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Old Apr 23, 2004, 11:45 AM   #10
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Default Re: I\'ve got some fanfics too :o)

Okay, I admit it, I only read "Stage Fright" -- it was so not my "thing" that I couldn't even bring myself to read the other story...I assume this is the one Angel is talking about...

Ooh, Kim, I have to say I agree with her -- by all accounts, Jim McCartney was a kind, loving and gentle father to his boys and did the best he could with them after their mother died. To portray him as so completely opposite (if that is indeed how you are portraying him in your other story) is not only unkind, but unfair, and is actually something that could actually get you sued by Paul for defaming his father's character like that, if he were to see the story!

I'm with Angel, I'm all for encouraging writers of fanfic -- that's what my website is all about! But I agree, I cannot encourage something so totally defamatory!
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Old Apr 23, 2004, 12:15 PM   #11
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Default Re: I\'ve got some fanfics too :o)

I don't know enough about the law to know whether Paul could sue. There is a disclaimer stating that as far as the writer knows, Paul's father wasn't really like that, and the father is penitent after beating his son, but still it is defamatory and I think Paul would be very hurt and angry if he were to read it, let alone how his children might feel.
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Old Apr 23, 2004, 12:23 PM   #12
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Default Re: I\'ve got some fanfics too :o)

[ QUOTE ]
angelgodiva Posted:
I don't know enough about the law to know whether Paul could sue. There is a disclaimer stating that as far as the writer knows, Paul's father wasn't really like that, and the father is penitent after beating his son, but still it is defamatory and I think Paul would be very hurt and angry if he were to read it, let alone how his children might feel.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, Angel.

And as far as I know, a disclaimer is not enough to protect you from lawsuit. It's very nice, but doesn't mean a thing...e.g., all those Star Trek fanfic sites that had disclaimers and were still shut down by Paramount. This is potentially worse because it is defaming the memory of a real person. A disclaimer is NOT by any means a "get out of jail free" card!
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Old Apr 23, 2004, 01:06 PM   #13
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Default Re: I\'ve got some fanfics too :o)

Good to know.
While I agree with Sleepy that it might make a good story, I feel that the story line should be used in a piece featuring fictional characters, and not actual, living people with feelings and families.
A lot of people are against "slash" fanfics..not that this is one of those, but follow me here; slash is usually looked upon without favor, NOT because people hate homosexuals, but because the people generally portrayed in these stories are NOT gay, and are therefore being portrayed as engaging in activities which would be completely out of character for them. It is disrespectful to write things about a real person which could never by any stretch of the imagination be true of them. To portray a straight person as being gay would show a lack of respect for that person's feelings and perhaps his or her personal integrity.

To portray Paul's father as an abusive parent is slanderous because he was a real person who was, in fact, NOT a child abuser.
That does not, however, mean that the story might not be a good one if fictional characters were to be used.
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Old Apr 23, 2004, 01:19 PM   #14
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Default Re: I\'ve got some fanfics too :o)

Very good points, Angel. I agree, no one is saying that the story might not be a good one, but to write about Jim McCartney and his relationship with Paul that way is tempting a lawsuit. If the characters are fictional, there's no issue -- it becomes a story about an abusive parent and his child and as such isn't defaming anyone. It's the "real people" aspect that can be construed as disrespectful or defamatory, and strays into trouble.

I don't care much for these kinds of stories anyway, and do not like to read brutal and violent stories in general, Beatlefic or other. If they are handled well and delve into the motivations and feelings of the characters (I am talking about FICTIONAL characters here, not real people), though, they can be great psychological character studies. Stephen King, for instance, does this quite well! But I wonder if it is wise to write things like this using real people as your characters.

As we have discussed many times here in the forums, fan fiction about real people is legal. Celebrities give up a certain amount of privacy simply because of their celebrity status, and since so much is known about their public lives, it is a simple matter to extend WHAT IS ALREADY KNOWN into speculation about private time. There have been cases in the U.S. courts about this very thing, and in all cases up to now, the authors of the works in question have been protected by the First Amendment and the right to fiction, satire and parody. (I can cite specific cases if anyone is interested.) The thing here, though, is that what is PUBLICLY KNOWN about Jim McCartney is that he was a kind, gentle man and a good father. (And HIS "celebrity" is really only due to his son -- if Paul wasn't PAUL, we wouldn't know a thing about Jim!) To speculate otherwise and make him into some kind of child-beating monster oversteps the boundaries of what is legal and strays into the territory of defamation of character, and that is where potential troubles lie. (No one is saying that he could NOT be like that in private, but let's face it, it's unlikely and certainly not a simple speculation based on what IS known!)

One of the reasons Rooftop won't touch stories like Kim's (or slash, either) is because of the potential for lawsuit based on defamation. Even if you try to handle the situation and characters respectfully (and no one says anyone who writes stories like those is NOT respectful -- I'm sure they are!) there is just too much questionable material for me to be personally comfortable with.

I agree, it can be a good story generally, but as we're talking about real people here, it's very, very touchy.
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Old Apr 23, 2004, 12:44 PM   #15
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Default Re: I\'ve got some fanfics too :o)

Hmm- these scenarios of the jealous and angry getting at the Beatles (not just Paul) actually DID happen. They had their share of scrapes with "Teds" in the early 60's and in Hamburg with the clientele of the Reeperbahn.
In my opinion, we focus too much in this society on its violent nature and because we can't get enough some of us have to put more out there. YES we know it's out there but what is so wrong with "silly love songs"? You are entitled of course to write and post as you will, HappyKim. I didn't find your stories extremely violent, certainly not as bad as others I've read but it does smack of sensationalism and there's really not enough background material of "good times" and "bonding experiences" for me to feel anything for the characters. I also might point out that the motivation for some fiction writer's is the notion of writing is a "playing out" of their own fantasies. Everyone insinuates that tack with a romance why wouldn't it be the case here? Everyone shows love a bit differently and you do put warnings up there HappyKim- so Kudos to you. But would you want someone expressing their love for YOU like this? Again only my humble opinion
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Old Apr 23, 2004, 01:18 PM   #16
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Default Re: I\'ve got some fanfics too :o)

By the way- at the risk of repeating what HMVNipper and Angel have said here I DO agree with the legal stuff and the inappropriate, uncharacteristic portrayal of Mr. McCartney, Sr. And since others have brought it up
I can't stress this enough- the answer to this often asked question (at Beatles conventions) for writing a good fiction story...
Question: What makes a good FanFic? (You've asked.)
Answer: Research and Read, read, READ!!! Not just 5 or 10 or 20 books about the Beatles but as much as it takes to sleep, eat and dream them! Yes, I'll admit it is obsessive and fanatic (Could this be why Steven King novels are best-sellers?) because then you may start to get an inkling of how these people behaved.
Oh I hate going off like this but lately the fanfic links I've been led to show poor attention to detail and research. I'm NOT singling anyone out here I'm just making a general statement. Anyone who REALLY cares about what they write- READS a LOT about what they're writing. The only thing you wouldn't need to read about is your own life and hopefully you can write well about that. I know some here are familiar with inner circle people or the Beatles themselves, clearly you CAN write from your own experience and extrapolate behavior from actually having known them. The rest of us, who want to write quality fanfic, need to do the work and research the real people we write about. It's just not believable or ethical otherwise! An excellent idea is to just take your story and put in your own created characters then certainly you ARE "large and in charge" of their behavior. Alright I'm done- sorry but I HAD to mention this "near and dear to my heart" subject here.
Okay now critics lambaste away on me!-lol
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Old Apr 23, 2004, 01:21 PM   #17
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Default Re: I\'ve got some fanfics too :o)

Geez, we must have ALL been posting at the same time!

Good work, gals, I think "we all stand together!"
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Old Apr 23, 2004, 01:53 PM   #18
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Default Re: I\'ve got some fanfics too :o)

Yes we have all been posting simultaneously! - LOL
Thanks for the correct spelling on Stephen's name Susan. I have obviuosly NOT done my research on him!- LOLOLOL
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Old Apr 23, 2004, 02:37 PM   #19
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Default Re: I\'ve got some fanfics too :o)

Hey everyone,

Well, if I'd known people were going to make such a big deal out of it, I'd never have posted the link!

Anyway, I appreciate your honest thoughts and maybe you're right about the whole Jim McCartney thing. I'll definitely look into it and maybe (probably) I'll decide to change it or take the story down completely.

My original idea for that story was based on something John had said in an interview, namely that Paul's father always told Paul what to wear and what to do and that John eventually told him to choose between him and his father, hence the title "Choices" (and not "Chances" as somebody quoted ). But somewhere along the way I just came up with Paul's father being abusive, not realising that people would take it so seriously.

Anyway, I'll just advise everyone here to stay clear of my site, because obviously none of you like that kind of stuff. So stay away!

I hope this'll be the end of it, I feel kinda stupid for posting the link in the first place. Feeling about 2 inches tall right now.

Thanks again for your comments, it's been an eye-opening experience, to say the least.

Love, Kim
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Old Apr 23, 2004, 12:13 PM   #20
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Default Re: I\'ve got some fanfics too :o)

Hmm, I like reading "What if...?" stories. However, "Stagefright" is leaving me a bit lost. I understand the point of the lads pulling together, but there's not much story other than Paul's fairly severe beating as of yet. Keep posting, I'll keep reading - I'll have to reserve judgement until I see where the story itself goes.

As for "Chances", the probability of a widowed parent turning to drink in the wake of his partner's death is fairly good. I think it would be interesting to see where you're going - I see that Macca senior is already realising he's perhaps chosen a wrong path in easing his pain. I find that the teenaged Macca's response to his Papa's nocturnal visit is rather grownified - as I remember my teen years, I was much more likely to brave the anger of one of my parents during the daytime, and when I was a bit closer to the door than Paul would have been from his bed. I do feel that this story has more to its storyline than "Stagefright", and I'll be waiting to see how you perceive the teenaged Paul coping with both his mother's death and his father's grief-coping methods.
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