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Old Jul 07, 2012, 01:17 AM   #481
J.Winston.L
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Well, I never get tired of seeing or reading about the era of John & Cyn, because then John looked at his best IMHO
And his most creative.
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Old Jul 07, 2012, 11:37 AM   #482
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And his most creative.
Yeah, that's right, J. Winston.L

Snoopy
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 05:31 PM   #483
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Angry You know what I would freakin' LOVE?

It would give me great pleasure if people would gain some eff'n perspective. I went through the Beatles Confessions tumblr today and it royally pissed me off the way John confessions are becoming literally one after the other of "John was a bad person and the other Beatles were better people" BS.

Are you kidding me?



You stupid, delusional little fangirls. Have you any grasp on reality here? No, Paul McCartney is not a saint and George Harrison definitely wasn't either. I am so tired of people spreading their judgmental, overly-biased idiocy onto my artist. John made some mistakes in his life OR SO WE ARE REMINDED EVERY SINGLE TIME we ever read anything good about him.

But please do not act like he was the only one who ever did anything tinged in manipulation, greed, selfishness, egotism, or just plain meanness. GTFO with that. I am heated.

All of you who claim to be such eff'n experts on the morals of human beings, who have never/will never sin...you know what?



(Apple will return with the confessions and my thoughts at another time. Let me go take a run and cool off.)
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 05:46 PM   #484
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It seems as if everyone in Beatles fandom has gone crazy these past few weeks. Where have all the grown ups gone?
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 06:32 PM   #485
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Where have all the grown ups gone?
Growing old, I s'pose.

As I have said... no one is writing a tell-all dirty book about Paul. No one is doing so about George. Yet there have beens several about John... why? Not because he's the only one with tell-all dirty details to hide, but because he didn't control his self-image quite the way Paul has, and he just stood out more than George did. John put himself out there more than any other Beatle, and I think one of the results has been that he takes more s@!t from the ignorant hordes. He was loud about the things he did... which invited more criticism.

PLUS, he was a very complicated person. Not normal... but extraordinary. You just can't look at someone like John and constrain his life choices to some narrow-minded view through a lens of mainstream life. (And you can't do that for Paul or George either... though Paul was the most "normal" of the three.)

I think some of this backlash and some of the trite new clichés that are developing are just the cost of John's always pushing the envelope. I mean, if I hear someone muse, "Everyone thinks John was so avant garde, but it was Paul who introduced him to avant garde music" one more time I'll scream!! Yes, Paul was the one into it first... but did he incorporate it in his Beatles music? NO! (Unless you count Carnival of Light, which we have yet to hear.) John did... and more than just the musique concrete thing of Number 9, but by constantly pushing for new sounds, new techniques, new avenues of expression.

It's easy to sit back from this modern day cultural abyss we look into and not understand how important John's perspective was to music, to youth culture, to the intellectual debate, to progress. I think we are at a very stagnant, perhaps decadent (in a very bad way... yes, there's good decadence ) phase in our cultural life as Americans/Westerners. And John is best understood in an atmosphere of cultural vitality.

We need a Renaissance. And then the winds will change.

But there will always be stupid people, Scruffie.
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 07:02 PM   #486
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I was watching George's "All Things Must Pass" the other day,was it just me or did Olivia say that George really "liked"the women.I kinda sounded like he strayed during their marriage?If he did I guess he was no saint either,but that doesn't change the way I feel about him.Nobodys perfect!
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Old Aug 17, 2012, 04:06 AM   #487
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.if I hear someone muse, "Everyone thinks John was so avant garde, but it was Paul who introduced him to avant garde music" one more time I'll scream!! Yes, Paul was the one into it first... but did he incorporate it in his Beatles music? NO! (Unless you count Carnival of Light, which we have yet to hear.) John did... and more than just the musique concrete thing of Number 9, but by constantly pushing for new sounds, new techniques, new avenues of expression.

.
Not to fuel the McCartney vs Lennon debate (I find them both to be the same person myself just expressed in different ways) but Paul never gets the acknowledgement for his avant gard influence by John fans.
and yes, Paul did incorporate it into Beatles music. It was Paul who came up with the tape loops thrown into the air and then randomly inserted in Tomorrow Never Knows to give John that weird LSD influenced sound he wanted for that song. THAT IS PRETTY MUSICALLY CONCRETE and way before Number 9. Paul deserves this recognition.
as for Carnival of Light...rumor has it Yoko is the bad apple who doesn't want it released. I guess she doesn't want Paul's Avant Gard Influence to become well-known.
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Old Aug 17, 2012, 05:28 AM   #488
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First of all, I want to be clear that I didn't make my statement to fuel any Lennon/McCartney thing because I always give Paul his proper due. I was just pointing out how the tide has turned and people are starting to re-write the Beatles history in an anti-Lennon backlash. Defending John from the BS that the "Paul is great because he wrote Hey Jude for Julian" brigade is not an anti-Paul action.

Yes, Paul contributed the tape loops... to a JOHN song. He didn't use them in one of his own, did he? That was my point. Paul did MANY inventive and truly fab things in his own songs, true... but whose songs had the most experimentation on them? Whose songs had backwards vocals, backwards guitar, weird sounds, Shakespeare off the radio, etc.? So yeah, Paul listened to/was exposed to avant garde things, but John was actually more of the avant garde artist.

People read this quote from Paul: "People tend to credit John with the backwards recordings, the loops and the weird sound effects, but the tape loops were my thing" and they then decide to make broad generalizations like "John wasn't avant garde." That's the problem with these fools who infuriate Scruffie... and me!
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Old Aug 17, 2012, 05:43 AM   #489
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not mine but i agree

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Old Aug 17, 2012, 05:46 AM   #490
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same thing with me in the 8th grade. and still when a go through rough times
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Old Aug 17, 2012, 07:35 PM   #491
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Default Round and round we go

It's just another the circle game, is all. John for a long time (and particularly during the decade after his death) was praised to the skies as truly artistic, innovative etc. while Paul was bashed for selling out to commercialism and what not. We're just coming around from that now and Paul is on the upswing while John's taking a beating. Another decade or two and John will be on the up and up again with Paul in the basement. C'est la vie. Nothing to get an ulcer over!

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First of all, I want to be clear that I didn't make my statement to fuel any Lennon/McCartney thing because I always give Paul his proper due. I was just pointing out how the tide has turned and people are starting to re-write the Beatles history in an anti-Lennon backlash.
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Old Aug 19, 2012, 11:12 AM   #492
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Originally Posted by Maia 66 View Post
First of all, I want to be clear that I didn't make my statement to fuel any Lennon/McCartney thing because I always give Paul his proper due. I was just pointing out how the tide has turned and people are starting to re-write the Beatles history in an anti-Lennon backlash. Defending John from the BS that the "Paul is great because he wrote Hey Jude for Julian" brigade is not an anti-Paul action.

Yes, Paul contributed the tape loops... to a JOHN song. He didn't use them in one of his own, did he? That was my point. Paul did MANY inventive and truly fab things in his own songs, true... but whose songs had the most experimentation on them? Whose songs had backwards vocals, backwards guitar, weird sounds, Shakespeare off the radio, etc.? So yeah, Paul listened to/was exposed to avant garde things, but John was actually more of the avant garde artist.

People read this quote from Paul: "People tend to credit John with the backwards recordings, the loops and the weird sound effects, but the tape loops were my thing" and they then decide to make broad generalizations like "John wasn't avant garde." That's the problem with these fools who infuriate Scruffie... and me!
I don't think you need to f**cking clarify anything. You were absolutely right with all you said. Sick of this 'Paul deserves credit for the avant garde" bullsh1t. First and foremost, Paul doesn't need anymore credit for ANYTHING. That man's head is the size of earth at this point, and he will come to the opening of an envelope if you invited him. Yes, he is a PR wh0re and happy to be one. I like Paul, I do. But do I feel 'sympathy' because he didn't get his name in some book over a bunch of tapes he put together and did nothing with UNTIL JOHN took them and included them- brilliantly- into a cutting edge song? No. Because Paul will make sure he reminds the world about the tapes, about how he met Yoko first, about how HE wrote this and that, about how a song of HIS went to number 1. He'll remind you until you can recite it, and then every time you see his face all you can remember is all the things Paul can do better than you.

I'm being super rude and obnoxious intentionally. I have nothing against misfitboy, but I will speak up about people reminding others of sh1t we already know. Maia's POINT was that JOHN utilized the tapes and made something masterful with them. Sh1t. I could create a bunch of pretty paints using special formulas in my basement but wtf does that matter if I just have them in jars and stare at them? Then some artist who comes along and paints a gorgeous picture with my paints gets credit and I'm all, "Hey wait a minute. Those were my f**cking paints he used!" But:

1. Did you paint the picture Fly?

2. Did you come up with the actual finished produc Fly?

3. Is this your artwork Fly?

So wtf does it matter if I made the paints. It was nice of me, I got some credit for that. But I didn't make the finishing product- I didn't create the OOMPH and that is just that.

So Paul is not going to be taking the credit for the avant garde because a bunch of tapes 'aint a song. Ok? Now, I'll gladly chake his hand over the tapes and other things. I rather like his tunes on Revolver, he plays bass like a motherf**&er, he had some mad organizing skills, and he wrote some f**cking great songs (in his youth, in his youth, in his youth). But I will not be giving Paul credit for every last one of John's genius moves. And vice versa. Ok?

Now, let me applaud Maia's point right now. I also would like to add that those Beatles confession b1tches can %$@&%$&^%&*^.

Alright? Made myself clear. I'm not in the best of moods. Where's Snoopy?
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Old Aug 19, 2012, 06:38 PM   #493
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Alright? Made myself clear. I'm not in the best of moods. Where's Snoopy?
There you go again... just light up a room and then leave!

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Because Paul will make sure he reminds the world about the tapes, about how he met Yoko first, about how HE wrote this and that, about how a song of HIS went to number 1. He'll remind you until you can recite it, and then every time you see his face all you can remember is all the things Paul can do better than you.
Exactly!
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Old Aug 19, 2012, 06:47 PM   #494
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OH MY GAWD FLY.

When I read your posts girl...

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Old Aug 20, 2012, 04:51 PM   #495
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. I have nothing against misfitboy,.
If you have nothing against me, then don't go calling me names. I don't care if you're in a bad mood or not. It's fighting words. (and I'm not in the best of moods either).

Plus, Paul was more responsible then John for the 'orgasm' of sound at the end of A Day in the Life, a song they worked 50/50 on. (Though I'd say that George Martin was more behind that part of the song then either of them). and if a collection of tape loops isn't a song, then what is Number 9?

The only difference between the two is that Paul didn't put his loops (and avant gard home movies since most of them got stolen anyway) on Beatle albums.
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Old Aug 20, 2012, 05:25 PM   #496
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Did Fly call you any names misfit? Honestly, I personally have always considered ADITL more a John song. I always appreciate Paul's contribution to the song, but the feel of that song has always been John to me. I don't want to dismiss Paul's contributions, and no one here really is, so let's not take it there. I love all the Beatles. This is a thread about John and I ranted because I am very annoyed by the disrespect and blatant bias many Beatles fans are expressing at John's expense.
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Old Aug 21, 2012, 05:16 AM   #497
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i have to things to say

1. if u want to debate(calmly) about John/ beatles topics plz go to the threads on that topic see a confession on here that crates a debate take it to that thread

2. if u really want to argue like angry teens the do so via PM plz don't start a fight on a John thread
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Old Aug 21, 2012, 06:20 AM   #498
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Did Fly call you any names misfit? .
You can see it for yourself in my quote in my above post. I was called Misfitboy by Fly, so yeah, that was out of bounds. (with getting attacked in this board lately by bullies, I'm on the defense big time).

the other thing about Paul's avant gard phase is it isn't well known by non-fans. I myself only got into his hippie phase for decades from the 70s on and didn't really pay much attention to the swinging 60s for years. So, it isn't well known and learning about it changes things.
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Old Aug 21, 2012, 07:34 AM   #499
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I understand your qualms, misfit, and I am NOT one to tolerate bullying. But I will say that Fly's overall personality is sort of, well, very...unique. And I don't really think she meant it as name-calling because I have noticed she tends to 'create' names when she posts. I don't think she meant to bully/antagonize you. She is very fierce but I haven't really seen her single out someone just to pick on them, aside from her and Snoopy's little 'debates.' And those are mutually met.

I agree with JLG. Let's focus on John here. Paul is alive and kicking and able to rewrite and explain and share anything he wants. John only has his words via media, Yoko, and the fans. And of course his incredibly incomparable music. If it was such an issue that Paul be acclaimed for his avant garde virtuoso, words should have been expressed years ago, when John was still alive. Obviously, it wasn't that big of an issue because I think John used those tapes to the greatest/fullest extent possible with his OWN imagination and creativity. For that I am utterly grateful.
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Old Aug 21, 2012, 01:42 PM   #500
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You can see it for yourself in my quote in my above post. I was called Misfitboy by Fly, so yeah, that was out of bounds.
THIS is already an attack? This was hardly a typo....I am sure nothing else. And what is the big difference between misfittoy and misfitboy anyway, she did not call you names like for example "dipshittoy" (Attention: no bullying intended, just trying to explain...). THEN I would say it was bullying, but this is a typo, nothing else. No one would have even realized it if you wouldn't have mentioned it.This is picking up fights intentionally...and you really wonder why you are on defense big time here lately?

Thanks apple, you are right, back to topic.
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