BeatleLinks LogoNav Panel New Sites Cool Sites Top Rated Fab Forum Add A Site Link To Us Revolution Radio New Products



Go Back   BeatleLinks Fab Forum > Other Forums > Here, There & Everywhere


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Mar 14, 2006, 04:10 PM   #61
HMVNipper
Sun King
 
HMVNipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 26, 2001
Location: New York City, USA
Posts: 11,672

Send a message via AIM to HMVNipper
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thepandoras
Only if both chicks are hot.
Thank you so very much for reducing the level of this otherwise mature discussion to that of jello wrestling...
__________________
"And this I believe: that the free, exploring mind of the individual human is the most valuable thing in all the world. And this I would fight for: the freedom of the mind to take any direction it wishes, undirected. And this I must fight against: any idea, religion, or government which limits or destroys the individual." - John Steinbeck

"When we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a literary dogma, we become automatons. We cease to grow." - Anais Nin

Last edited by HMVNipper : Mar 14, 2006 at 04:11 PM.
HMVNipper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 14, 2006, 04:21 PM   #62
Roxy Starkey
Sgt. Pepper
 
Roxy Starkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 26, 2002
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 4,996
Send a message via MSN to Roxy Starkey
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thepandoras
Only if both chicks are hot.
If you are not mature enough to post on this topic then stay away from it... and please, do not fill this forum with comments like that or nasty jokes. Thank you.
__________________
I'd like to stand in a stream with you,
roll my trousers up and not feel blue.
I'd like to wash in a stream with you.
Would you like to do it too?


You and I, country dreamer
Roxy Starkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 14, 2006, 04:27 PM   #63
.Psychedelic.Stars.
Taxman
 
.Psychedelic.Stars.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 16, 2005
Location: Kanada.
Posts: 1,623
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HMVNipper
See, I'm not so sure about that. I don't think that every tenet of any religion as we know it will come crashing down just because same-sex couples are allowed to marry. To cite your example, people are going to have sex before marriage whether it's "perfectly fine" or not -- just as other people are not going to. They do that now! No church's doctrine (or change in doctrine) is going to change that, and it's certainly not going to change if they allow same-sex marriages. I just don't understand what the huge controversy is over the use of "the M word." Love is love, committment is committment -- what's the issue?

And as Kat says, no one's forcing churches to do this -- but just as civil marriages between hetro couples are legal, so should civil marriages between same-sex couples be, IMO.
What I said before, I was refering to very religious Christians. I know sex outta marriage happens, but I know alot of people who would say, "Nope, no sex till I'm married cause that's what I believe in. That's how I was raised." are the ones who are strong believers. Same with gay marriages. Some strictly religious people/families have grown up with the belief of it being wrong, and I don't condemn them for thinking that. That's why I don't get offended with people who think either way about this topic, because it's quite controversial.

*Btw, I'm not to good with other religion since I am Christian so I'm only using Christianity as an example. I have no knowledge of other religion allowing or disallowing things like this, so therefore I'm not going to refer to them.*
__________________
~All You Need Is Love~
.Psychedelic.Stars. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 14, 2006, 04:33 PM   #64
VersusBatman
Sun King
 
VersusBatman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 19, 2006
Posts: 10,937
Default

What is everyone's feelings about Brokeback Mountain not winning the Oscar for best picture?

Personaly I was shocked. I thought for sure BM would win.
__________________
"Truly, this man was the King of Pop." - Nostalgic Critic


It looks like they just put a whole lotta movies in a blender and turned it on really fast. - Myster Science Theater 3000

"They're dead grotty!" - George Harrison

Comic Book Guy: But, Aquaman, you cannot marry a woman without gills. You're from two different worlds... Oh, I've wasted my life. - The Simpsons

Last edited by VersusBatman : Mar 14, 2006 at 04:33 PM.
VersusBatman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 14, 2006, 04:53 PM   #65
.Psychedelic.Stars.
Taxman
 
.Psychedelic.Stars.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 16, 2005
Location: Kanada.
Posts: 1,623
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VersusBatman
What is everyone's feelings about Brokeback Mountain not winning the Oscar for best picture?

Personaly I was shocked. I thought for sure BM would win.
I wanted it to win. I haven't seen it.... But I really like Jake as an actor, lol.
__________________
~All You Need Is Love~
.Psychedelic.Stars. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 14, 2006, 05:02 PM   #66
HMVNipper
Sun King
 
HMVNipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 26, 2001
Location: New York City, USA
Posts: 11,672

Send a message via AIM to HMVNipper
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by .Psychedelic.Stars.
What I said before, I was refering to very religious Christians. I know sex outta marriage happens, but I know alot of people who would say, "Nope, no sex till I'm married cause that's what I believe in. That's how I was raised." are the ones who are strong believers. Same with gay marriages. Some strictly religious people/families have grown up with the belief of it being wrong, and I don't condemn them for thinking that. That's why I don't get offended with people who think either way about this topic, because it's quite controversial.

*Btw, I'm not to good with other religion since I am Christian so I'm only using Christianity as an example. I have no knowledge of other religion allowing or disallowing things like this, so therefore I'm not going to refer to them.*
Okay...you make some very valid points, and I'm glad that my post didn't upset you. I wouldn't condemn anyone for thinking it's wrong either, I just would like to know specifics about exactly why they do when someone thinks it is. But there are many points of view on this and surely this is always going to be a controversial topic, which is really kind of unfortunate whether you agree or disagree with the concept.

I'm Jewish, but very, very non-traditional and secular. Believe me, the more traditional branches of my religion are opposed to same-sex marriage too, same as Christians.
__________________
"And this I believe: that the free, exploring mind of the individual human is the most valuable thing in all the world. And this I would fight for: the freedom of the mind to take any direction it wishes, undirected. And this I must fight against: any idea, religion, or government which limits or destroys the individual." - John Steinbeck

"When we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a literary dogma, we become automatons. We cease to grow." - Anais Nin
HMVNipper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 14, 2006, 05:03 PM   #67
VersusBatman
Sun King
 
VersusBatman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 19, 2006
Posts: 10,937
Default

Now some people I've talked to said that the judges decided to play it safe by not awarding this movie.

I'm sure some have heard what happened in Utah when a theater decided to ban this movie. While I feel that it's a person's right to run their business as he pleases, I feel that one needs to be consistant. The owner looked like a fool banning a movie about homosexuality, yet allow movies like "Wolf Creek" "Hostel" and "Saw II" to be played.
__________________
"Truly, this man was the King of Pop." - Nostalgic Critic


It looks like they just put a whole lotta movies in a blender and turned it on really fast. - Myster Science Theater 3000

"They're dead grotty!" - George Harrison

Comic Book Guy: But, Aquaman, you cannot marry a woman without gills. You're from two different worlds... Oh, I've wasted my life. - The Simpsons
VersusBatman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 14, 2006, 06:08 PM   #68
SnarkyKat
Nowhere Man
 
SnarkyKat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 27, 2005
Location: Somewhere in Indiana
Posts: 236
Send a message via AIM to SnarkyKat Send a message via MSN to SnarkyKat Send a message via Yahoo to SnarkyKat
Default

To go along with my earlier post, I don't really think that the whole "marriage" thing is the point of same sex "marriage" -- it's the fact that same-sex couples would like to have the same rights and protections under the law as opposite-sex couples, which would require some sort of civil union or "marriage". ("Marriage" is totally a loaded word, in this case.) And, honestly, I can't find anything wrong with that.

...This makes me the antichrist, doesn't it? TOTALLY PLOTTING THE DECLINE OF AMERICAN MORAL FIBER HERE (oops, too late).
__________________
Kat

http://www.onehepkat.com/

"Better living through graphic design."
SnarkyKat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 14, 2006, 06:09 PM   #69
SnarkyKat
Nowhere Man
 
SnarkyKat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 27, 2005
Location: Somewhere in Indiana
Posts: 236
Send a message via AIM to SnarkyKat Send a message via MSN to SnarkyKat Send a message via Yahoo to SnarkyKat
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VersusBatman
I'm sure some have heard what happened in Utah when a theater decided to ban this movie. While I feel that it's a person's right to run their business as he pleases, I feel that one needs to be consistant. The owner looked like a fool banning a movie about homosexuality, yet allow movies like "Wolf Creek" "Hostel" and "Saw II" to be played.
Wow. WOW. I <3 RANDOMLY APPLIED LOGIC AND MORALITY.
__________________
Kat

http://www.onehepkat.com/

"Better living through graphic design."
SnarkyKat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 14, 2006, 06:13 PM   #70
luvsthebeatles
Sun King
 
luvsthebeatles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 29, 2003
Location: Utah
Posts: 6,524
Send a message via MSN to luvsthebeatles Send a message via Yahoo to luvsthebeatles
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HMVNipper
I understand completely that this is a religious issue for you. But I would like to know -- do you believe this because you believe it, or because your church says you should? In other words, do you think for yourself, or only believe what the preacher tells you you must believe? (That kind of thing is precisely one of the reasons I personally don't like organzed religion generally, but that's another discussion for another time.) And no, I am not trying to be confrontational, I genuinely want to know...so please, please, please do not take offense.

However...what about adoption? There are plenty of unwanted kids in this world...and I personally think that a family is a family is a family. Would it be okay for a hetero couple to raise adopted children according to your church, but not a gay one? What's the difference as long as the child is loved and wanted and cared for and experiences family values and ethics? Would the church say that it's better for these kids to languish in foster care or other "temporary" situations rather than have a loving permanent family, even if it does have two moms or two dads? We know several same-sex families and the kids are all lovely, well-adjusted, nice kids with nice parents. (And some of these kids are the biological children of one of the partners, btw...)
Let me ask you this: if you believe with all of your heart in your church, then why would you go against what they say? Yes, *I* do believe what I believe because I feel that it's right. Of course the fact that my church says that it's wrong helps, but I believe that even if I wasn't religious I'd hold the same belief. lol, don't worry: I don't get offended easily. I can see why you would want to know.

I can also see where you're coming from on adoption, but I still believe that it's wrong. I don't really know what else to say other than that... I must be honest in saying that I haven't really thought much about same-sex families adopting...

Sorry I haven't been able to read all the posts inbetween Susan's and this one, I probably missed something important.

Edit: such as

Quote:
Originally Posted by HMVNipper
*I* didn't. I really want to know, and I was very careful to say that in my post. I wasn't rude, as far as I could tell. For the record, I like luvs a lot, and I think she's a mature and interesting person. I think she's someone who can answer my question honestly and without rancor, that's why I asked it. Not to be nasty or cause a debate. So if anyone took it that way, well, that's the way they read my question, because that's not how I meant it. And if luvs tells me that she really believes those things and can back it up, hey, who am I to argue? I think it's cool, I never said she shouldn't believe it, I just asked why. (Frankly, I'd like to hope she won't be offended by my question! Please, luvs, don't be! )
No offence taken! You're great too Susan.
__________________
I can't think of anything to say, so bask in the glow of the happy rainbow smiley!

Last edited by luvsthebeatles : Mar 14, 2006 at 06:17 PM.
luvsthebeatles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 14, 2006, 06:13 PM   #71
VersusBatman
Sun King
 
VersusBatman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 19, 2006
Posts: 10,937
Default

Seriously I felt alone in thinking something wasn't right about this. My beliefs forbid homosexuality, but from what I heard about Brokeback Mountain, it's no worse than say, The Bridges of Madison County, a movie that romanticizes adultry between heterosexuals. Why wasn't that movie banned as well?
__________________
"Truly, this man was the King of Pop." - Nostalgic Critic


It looks like they just put a whole lotta movies in a blender and turned it on really fast. - Myster Science Theater 3000

"They're dead grotty!" - George Harrison

Comic Book Guy: But, Aquaman, you cannot marry a woman without gills. You're from two different worlds... Oh, I've wasted my life. - The Simpsons

Last edited by VersusBatman : Mar 14, 2006 at 06:13 PM.
VersusBatman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 14, 2006, 06:27 PM   #72
matt5
Old Brown Shoe
 
matt5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 08, 2002
Posts: 3,528

Default

Marriage seems to be such a subjective term to me. Its legal, cultural, and social definition is always being changed and modified.

It is not rational to me for someone to say that marriage should only be between a man and a women because it has always been that way. So what? Society changes. Hopefully for the better.

I see no reason why two men or two women should be prevented from being married.
__________________
You and I, country dreamer
when there's nothing else to do
Me oh my, country dreamer
make a country dream come true

Last edited by matt5 : Mar 14, 2006 at 06:33 PM.
matt5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 14, 2006, 07:27 PM   #73
.Psychedelic.Stars.
Taxman
 
.Psychedelic.Stars.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 16, 2005
Location: Kanada.
Posts: 1,623
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VersusBatman
Now some people I've talked to said that the judges decided to play it safe by not awarding this movie.
You're joking?!?! That's a little bias.
__________________
~All You Need Is Love~

Last edited by .Psychedelic.Stars. : Mar 14, 2006 at 07:28 PM.
.Psychedelic.Stars. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 14, 2006, 07:44 PM   #74
VersusBatman
Sun King
 
VersusBatman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 19, 2006
Posts: 10,937
Default

From what I understand, some of the judges didn't see Brokeback Mountain.
__________________
"Truly, this man was the King of Pop." - Nostalgic Critic


It looks like they just put a whole lotta movies in a blender and turned it on really fast. - Myster Science Theater 3000

"They're dead grotty!" - George Harrison

Comic Book Guy: But, Aquaman, you cannot marry a woman without gills. You're from two different worlds... Oh, I've wasted my life. - The Simpsons
VersusBatman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 15, 2006, 04:31 AM   #75
Siobhan
Old Brown Shoe
 
Siobhan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 04, 2001
Location: London
Posts: 3,016
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by matt5
Marriage seems to be such a subjective term to me. Its legal, cultural, and social definition is always being changed and modified.

It is not rational to me for someone to say that marriage should only be between a man and a women because it has always been that way. So what? Society changes. Hopefully for the better.

I see no reason why two men or two women should be prevented from being married.
Well put Matt

I appreciate that some religions disagree with same sex marriage because they believe that marriage is for procreation, and that sex is a tool for which to procreate with only, but what about heterosexual couples who are biologically unable to have children, or who choose that they do not want children, or even elderly couples who have got together late in life and want to marry. These marriages are consiedered legal so to me I can't see any reason why two people of the same sex should not be able to marry purely because they cannot have children.

I'm not trying to knock anyone's religion btw, I come from a Catholic family, but it's just something I've never been able to understand.
__________________
With our love we could save the world
Siobhan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 15, 2006, 08:19 AM   #76
HMVNipper
Sun King
 
HMVNipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 26, 2001
Location: New York City, USA
Posts: 11,672

Send a message via AIM to HMVNipper
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by luvsthebeatles
Let me ask you this: if you believe with all of your heart in your church, then why would you go against what they say? Yes, *I* do believe what I believe because I feel that it's right. Of course the fact that my church says that it's wrong helps, but I believe that even if I wasn't religious I'd hold the same belief. lol, don't worry: I don't get offended easily. I can see why you would want to know.

I can also see where you're coming from on adoption, but I still believe that it's wrong. I don't really know what else to say other than that... I must be honest in saying that I haven't really thought much about same-sex families adopting...

Sorry I haven't been able to read all the posts inbetween Susan's and this one, I probably missed something important.

Edit: such as

Quote:
Originally Posted by HMVNipper
I* didn't. I really want to know, and I was very careful to say that in my post. I wasn't rude, as far as I could tell. For the record, I like luvs a lot, and I think she's a mature and interesting person. I think she's someone who can answer my question honestly and without rancor, that's why I asked it. Not to be nasty or cause a debate. So if anyone took it that way, well, that's the way they read my question, because that's not how I meant it. And if luvs tells me that she really believes those things and can back it up, hey, who am I to argue? I think it's cool, I never said she shouldn't believe it, I just asked why. (Frankly, I'd like to hope she won't be offended by my question! Please, luvs, don't be! )
No offence taken! You're great too Susan.
Thanks so much, luvs, for answering my question honestly and understanding that I was not intending to be confrontational when I asked my question. I really wish that other people had waited for you to respond before jumping on me about my question and calling it "unfair" -- clearly they misunderstood me and you did not, and I really appreciate it.

You have explained your position on this excellently, and I can appreciate where you are coming from. I guess, being a very secular person myself, I have an innate desire to understand better exactly why people more religious than I believe what they believe, and you did a great job backing up your opinion with examples. I personally am a bit baffled by folks who "believe with all their heart in their church," but that's absolutely not a putdown of anyone who does -- it confuses me because I have never felt that way about any religious institution in my life (actually, I've never felt that way about any instituion, period), but not because I do not recognize that other people do. Does that make any sense? I can, however, see how believing wholeheartedly in a doctrine could absolutely influence the way someone would feel about a controversial topic such as same-sex marriage, etc.

I appreciate also your candor when you say you haven't thought much about same-sex couples adopting. Well, it's something to consider -- I still personally maintain that a loving permanent home for a child is always preferable to foster care or group homes, regardless of the sexual orientation of the parents or whether there are two moms or two dads. I know that not everyone agrees with that, but that's my view.

Now, I agree with Siobhan's assertion that if some religious groups think that marriage should be between a man or a woman simply because marriage is for procreation and only people of the opposite sex can procreate, then how come they sanction marriages where the heterosexual partners cannot have children or choose not to have children? Kids raised by same-sex parents don't "turn out to be gay" any more frequently than any other kids, so that's a kind of feeble argument, IMO.

As I said earlier (I think in my first post on this subject), I don't personally care if it's called "marriage" or "civil union," provided that the term "civil union" affords the partners exactly the same rights under the law as "marriage" would. No one says any religious institution has to bless these unions -- but I think the law should, and that harkens back to separation of church and state, of course...

Thanks again, luvs, for responding to my query with poise, candor and maturity. I appreciate it more than you know!
__________________
"And this I believe: that the free, exploring mind of the individual human is the most valuable thing in all the world. And this I would fight for: the freedom of the mind to take any direction it wishes, undirected. And this I must fight against: any idea, religion, or government which limits or destroys the individual." - John Steinbeck

"When we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a literary dogma, we become automatons. We cease to grow." - Anais Nin
HMVNipper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 15, 2006, 08:59 AM   #77
Legs
Sun King
 
Legs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 29, 2001
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 10,562



Default

Quote:
No one says any religious institution has to bless these unions -- but I think the law should, and that harkens back to separation of church and state, of course...
Exactly. You can believe what you want, think that something is wrong. But in this case it shouldn't hinder other people for doing what they believe is right.
As long as it isn't hurting anyone, and in the case of gay mariages, it clearly doesn't.
Legs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 15, 2006, 11:10 AM   #78
twovirgins
Sun King
 
twovirgins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 11, 2004
Posts: 6,083

Default

separation of church and state !!!
If you want to have a religious marriage get married in a church!
If you dont go to the "state " court house they still get their $$ for the licence.
__________________
War is over if you want it
twovirgins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 15, 2006, 02:22 PM   #79
.Psychedelic.Stars.
Taxman
 
.Psychedelic.Stars.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 16, 2005
Location: Kanada.
Posts: 1,623
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by twovirgins
separation of church and state !!!
If you want to have a religious marriage get married in a church!
If you dont go to the "state " court house they still get their $$ for the licence.
Napoleon Bonaparte would've loved you!
__________________
~All You Need Is Love~
.Psychedelic.Stars. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 17, 2006, 06:03 AM   #80
ShowTunes
Wild Honey Pie
 
ShowTunes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 25, 2002
Location: Aurora, Colorado, USA
Posts: 534
Default

Sorry I came a little late to this thread... this is one of my pet issues. As far as I am concerned, any objections to gay marriage are based solely on bigotry; there is no rational reason to prevent two people of the same sex from getting married. If the issue is the creation of children, then there are a whole lot of heterosexual relationships that, by that standard, should be dissolved because they aren't producing kids. If the issue is religious, then fine, your religion can refuse to marry a gay couple, but don't prevent more reasonable-minded religions, or the state, from marrying a gay couple.

If you think that allowing gay marriage will destroy your religion, that only shows that you have no real faith in your religion. Is your religion really so fragile that gay marriage will completely destroy it?

If you think that gay marriage will damage the marriages of heterosexuals in some way, let me ask you this: Which do you think damaged my parents' marriage more, the fact that two of my male friends got married in Massachusetts, or the fact that my mother got Alzheimer's? If people REALLY (sorry, there's been some silly petulance about all caps on this thread, but it's easier than dealing with the HTML code for italics) cared about marriage, they'd devote their energies to raising money for Alzheimer's research and other such things rather than attacking an unrelated group of people. The fact that they don't is just pure, naked, institutionalized bigotry.
__________________
With Strings Attached--the classic online Beatles fantasy novel! http://www.rationalmagic.com/Strings/Strings.html
ShowTunes is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Shock value? Or not... ImaginePeace78 Here, There & Everywhere 16 Nov 09, 2005 08:30 PM
Kids opinions on Marriage and dating justanothergirl Here, There & Everywhere 10 Feb 06, 2005 07:12 PM
Why John Lennon's sex drawings were never labelled as obscene in court I am the Paulrus Menlove Avenue 0 Mar 24, 2004 05:41 AM
Ontario: Same Sex Marriage Legal IWantToTellYou Here, There & Everywhere 6 Jun 12, 2003 05:52 PM
Chocolate or Tantric Sex? Not Only A Northern Song 20 Jul 29, 2002 11:58 PM


Advertisements

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Site Features
Search Links

  Advanced Search
Category Jump



BeatleMail

FREE E-MAIL
@ BEATLEMAIL.COM


Username


Password




New User Sign-Up!
Lost Password?
Beatles History




Donate
The costs of running our database and discussion forum are steadily rising. Any help we receive is greatly appreciated. Click HERE for more information about donating to BeatleLinks.
Extras
» Chat Room
» Current News
» Monthly Contest
» Interviews Database
» Random Site
» Banner Exchange
» F.A.Q.
» Advertise
» Credits
» Legal
» Contact Us
Copyright © 2000-2020 BeatleLinks
All Rights Reserved