A disgrace to George

George has lots of sex with lots of women vs. George was a very spiritual man who loved gardening in his later years...which do you think is going to make headlines? In the world we live in, it will always be about sex. So what...as long as George is in the news and people will be drawn to the film. Maybe many people who did not follow George's life and career will become interested from the salacious promo stories, and fall in love with George once they learn more about him. That is fine with me.

I am not arrogant and never was. People have made that self same statement about you, FPSHOT, but I never bought it. Again, I say each person has their own way of expressing their thoughts and it is unfortunate whenever anyone is misconstrued.

Now, I'd rather smell a dead duck than apologize which is one thing I really hate to do. I actually did offer one if you go back and read my previous post. People did rush to your defense. Well and good.

My statement about cultural perspectives had nothing to do with the word slut. My statement was meant as a blanket statement that each one of us comes from a different background and that each person interprets things in their individual way. Without someone clarifying, that can cause for misunderstandings. The last thing I want is for people to come down hard on anyone and unfortunately that does happen sometimes.

FPSHOT, that is what I mean about interpretation. I am not making excuses; I honestly thought I was extending an olive branch by giving everyone the benefit of the doubt. I do know that people come from different backgrounds and bring different cultural perspectives to the table.

Why is John considered the womanizer of the Beatles? He was married his entire adult life. I've heard the stories about George and the swapping and the wild behavior. But no women are coming forward and screaming from the mountain tops about their "night w John". In fact, it was always quite weird. In all those videos of the Beatles touring, they all were sleeping in suites w four four beds in the same room. Like they were being chaperoned and watched.

I've thought long and hard how to respond to this. When I said George was a free spirit, I meant it. I think he had so much love---spiritually, emotionally, mentally, that sometimes that was bound to spread carnally outside of any acknowledged boundaries. I love George, but I think he would have been hard to hold onto. Not only because of the promiscuity, but also because he was in such a rush to leave this world and go onto the next. To me, that would leave a very lonesome feeling in the partner. Thankfully, Olivia shared George's views on those matters though.

The word 'slut' is neither bad or good, male or female, it is what it is---a descriptive term meaning one who indulges in a lot of sex.

I find it very telling and sad George had so little regard for himself, and the act of sex, that he allowed himself to be passed around so freely. Sex became as mundane as brushing one's teeth. Olivia was expected to wait patiently by, how would he have liked it if she'd behaved in like manner? It is astonishing he would finally have what he wanted in life, a loving wife and son, and then be subconsciously willing to throw it all away. He's fortunate Olivia was strong and forgiving, bound to hold onto the marriage regardless of the cost to her emotionally. That she chose to stay with him says a lot about George, too, that he had sterling superior qualities worth staying around for. Ringo, too, wanted to hold onto George as a best friend even after the Maureen fiasco, and that also shows just how deeply George was loved.

You can look into George's eyes and tell he was a kind and gentle and deep person, his smile shows he must have been one of the sweetest persons ever. I'm looking forward to the DVD to find out how George rationalized and justified all the sides to his character. It is a shame that Olivia chose to be open and candid and honest with that one statement, and the media ran away with it. I'm so jealous of the reviewers who have been able to see this film already, and after 3 1/2 hours, that's all they learned, all that resonated? And it's not as if it's a new fact, anyway, we all knew George had many women through his life.

I'm equally looking forward to Olivia's book, which will share George's letters and journals. If we can read his words, see how he actually felt about all that was happening around him, maybe it will be like stepping into his mind, and understanding him better.

I do make allowances for George, even having said all the above. I have no doubt it was hard for him to be monogamous, after all he'd experienced. I think when he was a young teen, John and Paul were terrible influences, the worst people he could have emulated in how to treat women. I think he was sent too young to Hamburg, had so much vice thrown at him which he was not yet emotionally mature enough to handle. I do think Beatlemania psychologically traumatized him. The true George is when I read about him from birth to near age 20, after that the fame, money, power, and drugs take hold. I think the rest of his life, and the spirituality, was George trying to find his way back to reconnect to that true self---a sweet, loving, considerate boy who looked out for his family, for animals, for disadvantaged souls, a solitary boy who loved to take off on his own for long walks along the river to commune with nature.

Sidenote: I read the Beatles UK Tours 1963-1966, at the end the interviewer asked all who had encountered the Beatles in those early days, both fans and fellow performers, if they had a favorite Beatle, they unanimously said George. George was (paraphrasing, I don't have the book right at hand just now) "kind" "funny" "such a gentle soul" "such a lovely lad" "a very spiritual person". That to me is the real George, the one people responded to, and I'm interested in the DVD and book to see how George was able to manage and reconcile all his varied roles.

Originally Posted by Maia 66

I'm American and I 100% supported your comment about George... and I'm the "someone" who called the Dutch FPSHOT "prudish"... So, yeah LET'S TALK ABOUT SEX!

It'sprobably autumn time and time for you girlies to have a George sex season, fine with me.

About me being called prudish, I have had some great laughs about that today with some people I met, no one who knows me will ever call me prudish so it is big laughs around here about those stupid remarks.

p.s. to the moderator here - I am being insulted by various people here in various posts and you do nothing about it, not that I care but the level of this forum is below normal.

Originally Posted by beatlebangs1964

FPSHOT, that is what I mean about interpretation. I am not making excuses; I honestly thought I was extending an olive branch by giving everyone the benefit of the doubt. I do know that people come from different backgrounds and bring different cultural perspectives to the table.

I do not expect any excuse from you, your opinion is quit clear and is your own.

Different backgrounds have nothing to do with the words about George which you back up, your neigbour will no doubt have other feelings about things than you do so that is so pointless and pitifull to bring forward and even insulting. It's a matter of respect. That is lost here by some of who I thought they cared about George.

Originally Posted by FPSHOT

p.s. to the moderator here - I am being insulted by various people here in various posts and you do nothing about it, not that I care but the level of this forum is below normal.

FP, I think most people are responding to you because they respect you and your opinion. If they thought you were bad things, then no one would respond to you.

Don't you feel people have given your concerns a lot of thought?

I know you love George, and I know your heart is well intentioned here. I know you can be so much fun, too, lighthearted and funny. I know all this about you.

I guess when you post this criticism, it can appear like you are critical of people who really ALSO love George, as Lucy pointed out. It's just current news. So there really is no harm in discussing current news. There may be things in the documentary which we didn't know, and maybe the press will have a field day with it all. Then what should we do?

There is no *one way* to 'best' love George. We can be like a prism here, all shining George's love from different angles. It will make the love richer, since it's many sided.

Everyone play nice now and let's love one another like Georgie says.

Originally Posted by larainefan

I've thought long and hard how to respond to this. When I said George was a free spirit, I meant it.

larainefan, your insights are really interesting to read. Thanks so much for sharing those thoughts. I'll be thinking about them today and rolling them over in my mind.

I'm not given to believe the tabloids about George being promiscuous in his years with Olivia. I know of situation/s he could have been and was not, through the grapevine. As I read Olivia's words, they had a hiccup, and then it resolved. She didn't say he was a serial polyamour, or whatever it's called.

Also...... I know someone who stayed with George and Olivia at Friar Park.... and he was really cool and VERY insightful and smart. He said their marriage was one everyone should aspire to. He said they spoke lovingly to one another, and there was a spiritual and calm presence all around them. So, I believe his first hand account. I haven't read anything to change my opinion there.

No matter what the film holds, I think we'll all love George even more after seeing it.

Thanks, Hari's Chick, that's a relief to know. I know the other women happened, but if tabloids are exaggerating and blowing everything out of all proportion, then it means George was indeed wiser as he aged and matured. I'd love to believe those times he cheated on Olivia were rare, and that he did appreciate her and the family life she created for him. I think she was exactly what he needed in life, someone who brought him comfort and stability.

I agree with all you said, Larainefan. :)

Laraine, I found your input interesting and you offer a perspective that many have not considered. That is the hallmark of good discourse.

FPSHOT, I even said in my first post that you have a long history of good input here. Please keep that in mind. I DO care about George; I did not use the term which you found so upsetting. I never once said I supported that claim. It is not for you to decide who cares about George and to what degree. In truth, you really don't know that. Just as others don't have the right to make the same claim about you.

Originally Posted by Rellevart

Maybe everybody just has different views of what "respect" means. I respect George as a great guitarist, a great songwriter and an interesting person. Was he perfect? Nope. As are none of us either. I don't think acknowledging that somebody's not perfect means that you don't respect them. Are some people (men as well as women, the "girlie" comment was unneccesary and inaccurate) going to go the gossippy route? Yeah, probably. Is insulting them going to make anything better? No, not really.

Two points here....the first part of this sentence may be true, but the second part isn't and nobody ever said it was. That part of it was written and put into people's minds by...well...you.

The other point is I don't think anybody would "label" George as these things. Most people would , if they had to label him at all, label him as a musician, a gardener, a person searching for meaning in his life...those other things may have been part of his life too, but nobody's labeling him that way....

Well said Rell.

Okay, if everyone can play nice and not name call... we'll reopen this thread. It had some interesting perspectives. But if peeps start name calling... down it goes.

Play nice now...

Just reopening this topic does show how much George is loved!

One can also wonder why it ever was closed.

I hope George gets some more respect than being called a womanizer and slut because of a few things he did in his Patty period. What Olivia says is very harmless in my view, many men can talk and maybe flirt a bit with women in an innocent and funny way but that does not make them how George is described by various people here and nothing Olivia said goes in that direction.

Originally Posted by FPSHOT

One can also wonder why it ever was closed.

I hope George gets some more respect than being called a womanizer and slut because of a few things he did in his Patty period. What Olivia says is very harmless in my view, many men can talk and maybe flirt a bit with women in an innocent and funny way but that does not make them how George is described by various people here and nothing Olivia said goes in that direction.

There's a fine line between flirting and cheating. It's possible that George hadn't changed habits entirely when he became involved with Olivia, and if anything DID happen, it was probably during their early years together. There was a bit of partying going on during the '74 tour, maybe not the healthiest atmosphere for a new relationship. And if it did happen, I'm sure Olivia set him straight on a thing or three.

Maybe she had a rolling pin, like Linda McCartney.

The following opinion is completely separate from George/Olivia/Patti topic but I just want to add that not all women have the same views/reactions to how their men react/interact with other women and I for one would never judge a couples relationship as I am not in their heads/hearts.

Originally Posted by Georgie Girl

There was a bit of partying going on during the '74 tour, maybe not the healthiest atmosphere for a new relationship. And if it did happen, I'm sure Olivia set him straight on a thing or three.

Olivia was with George most of the 74 tour, so this speculation seems most unlikely apart from the group with Ravi and all the Indian musicians does not look to me as a group to be womanizing. Ravi described a lot about the tour in Raga Mala and certainly not the kind of partying which is suggested here. Some of the partying was like when they had great fun to see the Indian musicians eat pizza and the Western ones were eating Indian food.

Originally Posted by FPSHOT

Olivia was with George most of the 74 tour, so this speculation seems most unlikely apart from the group with Ravi and all the Indian musicians does not look to me as a group to be womanizing. Ravi described a lot about the tour in Raga Mala and certainly not the kind of partying which is suggested here. Some of the partying was like when they had great fun to see the Indian musicians eat pizza and the Western ones were eating Indian food.

Ravi produced a child from an affair, Norah Jones. At an age when he was old enough to know better.

Originally Posted by Georgie Girl

Ravi produced a child from an affair, Norah Jones. At an age when he was old enough to know better.

Not really an affair but ok I give you that one, George didn't though

When are you old enough to know better, is there a timetable for that? please give me the link if there is one so I can learn.

Originally Posted by Georgie Girl

Ravi produced a child from an affair, Norah Jones.

This is really music talk, "produced by Ravi Shankar"