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Old Aug 29, 2002, 08:44 AM   #61
MonaMe577
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test



------------------
... she will cry when she learns we are two...if I fell in love with you ...

"Hello, Homer, I'm George Harrison."
"Oh my God! Where'd you get that brownie?" -- The Simpsons

[This Message Has Been Edited By MonaMe577 On August 29, 2002 12:31 PM]
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Old Aug 29, 2002, 08:47 AM   #62
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

I have to disagree with you, Beatlebangs! There are times when I love to curl up with a good romantic story and have a good gush! I like romance if it is well done; it is possible to write a good love story, but far easier to write a bad one. (My own story's a romance--hopefully, you can figure that out from the set-up.)

I think it all depends on the heroine. As long as the heroine speaks like a real person and behaves like a real person with realistic emotions in realistic situations (albeit with the Beatles involved), then the story will be enjoyable. I've taken great pains to make Vivian sound like someone you know, like a living, breathing girl.

My biggest flaw with Mary-Sue stories is that many times, the author doesn't have a clue what falling in love is really like--it doesn't just happen overnight. Beatle sees girl, Beatle instantly falls for girl for no reason whatsoever, Beatle and girl live happily ever after. Most of the time, girl has no personality either, and said Beatle (mostly Paul--I'm SO TIRED of Paul romances!) falls for her because she's GORGEOUS!!!

It just doesn't work like that! There are things about the other person that annoy you, there are fights, there are times you sit around and wonder why he didn't call or why he's late, there are fights over stupid things--only when you've been dating someone for four years and living with him for two can you understand a stupid fight over the way to properly hang towels in the bathroom! It's the little nuances like this that keep a relationship interesting.

------------------
... she will cry when she learns we are two...if I fell in love with you ...

"Hello, Homer, I'm George Harrison."
"Oh my God! Where'd you get that brownie?" -- The Simpsons

[This Message Has Been Edited By MonaMe577 On August 29, 2002 12:33 PM]
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Old Aug 29, 2002, 08:51 AM   #63
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test



------------------
... she will cry when she learns we are two...if I fell in love with you ...

"Hello, Homer, I'm George Harrison."
"Oh my God! Where'd you get that brownie?" -- The Simpsons

[This Message Has Been Edited By MonaMe577 On August 29, 2002 12:30 PM]
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Old Aug 29, 2002, 08:58 AM   #64
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

That's okay, MonaMe577 (about my story). Take time to settle into school--I remember those days! Don't rush into reading my story, read it when you can. I know the work load can pile high in college, sometimes the first week.
I like some romance, I used to read Danielle Steel, but her books really don't appeal to me anymore. She's a "formula writer"--her characters are always *so* beautiful, (Mary Sue!) or they are beautiful and yet had the most tragic life ever, they meet the most handsome guy, fall in love, tragedy occurs, then they get married and live happily ever after. BLECH! There are only a few of her books that are well-written. Most of her historical fiction/romance is good, but lately, I've not been interested in her books.
-Kristi

------------------
"In the best of times, our days are numbered anyway. And so it would be a crime against nature for any generation to take the world crisis so solemnly that we would put off doing those things for which we were intended for in the first place, the oppurtunity to do good work, to fall in love, to enjoy friends, to hit a ball and to bounce a baby." --Allistar Cooke


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Old Aug 29, 2002, 09:01 AM   #65
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

Wow, THREE posts! I think that's new record for me!!!

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... she will cry when she learns we are two...if I fell in love with you ...

"Hello, Homer, I'm George Harrison."
"Oh my God! Where'd you get that brownie?" -- The Simpsons
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Old Aug 29, 2002, 09:25 AM   #66
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

Mona,

You're right -- it all depends on the writing. I have read romances that were good. I just don't like Mary-Sues. My chief complaint about authors like Danielle Steele is, she's too formulaic for me and I can't stand Harlequin/Silhouette/Intimate Moments romance novels at all. If the protagonist is endowed with maximum pulchritude (a truckload of beauty), talents, mouths inanities and there is at least one male figure in the mix, then you have a predictable plot with an equally predictable outcome, then that is not for me.

A well written romance (and they do exist -- I've read a few) that deviates from the standard cliches is always worth the read.

------------------
Then we will remember things we said today. Yeah.
-- Beatles, 1964

Read www.rooftopsessions.com for high caliber Beatles fan fiction.

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Old Aug 29, 2002, 08:48 PM   #67
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By beatlebangs1964:

A well written romance (and they do exist -- I've read a few) that deviates from the standard cliches is always worth the read.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

True...even besides Beatle fan fic romances, there's very few romance-type books that I like reading anymore. There has to be something else to the plot to get me to read it--comic relief or a mystery or ghost story will usually convince me it's worth reading...but, as always, it's in the approach!

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Old Aug 29, 2002, 10:25 PM   #68
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By angelgodiva:
So many people mentioned fanfiction.net that I went there to check it out. I sure read some crappy stuff, but there was one story that did have a lot of promise and potential. I asked the writer if she'd like some help improving it. If she accepts, I think it's going to be a really good story.
I agree about most of it though. By and large, it was abysmal.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Angel--what story was it? I have to read it to believe it!!



------------------
... she will cry when she learns we are two...if I fell in love with you ...

"Hello, Homer, I'm George Harrison."
"Oh my God! Where'd you get that brownie?" -- The Simpsons
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Old Aug 29, 2002, 11:33 PM   #69
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

So many people mentioned fanfiction.net that I went there to check it out. I sure read some crappy stuff, but there was one story that did have a lot of promise and potential. I asked the writer if she'd like some help improving it. If she accepts, I think it's going to be a really good story.
I agree about most of it though. By and large, it was abysmal.

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Old Aug 30, 2002, 07:35 AM   #70
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

It was a piece called SOMEWHERE IN TIME. The idea was borrowed from a movie, but the author readily acknowledges that. It needs tightening up and more detail, but it's really not bad, and amongst some of the crap surrounding it, it kinda shines, I think. Give it a read; I think it has potential.

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Old Aug 30, 2002, 09:25 AM   #71
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

Angel--

I just came back from reading "Sonewhere in Time". You're right, it does have some potential.

One things to suggest to her: if it were me, I'd axe out that entire sequence of opening paragraphs and try to work it back into the story. I think I posted earlier that I absolutely CRINGE when I read anywhere in a story: "Hi, my name is... I have red hair and blue eyes." Don't hit your reader over the head with it!! Let them discover it in time.

Other than that, this is probably one of the better stories I've ever read on fanfiction.net!! Props to her!

------------------
... she will cry when she learns we are two...if I fell in love with you ...

"Hello, Homer, I'm George Harrison."
"Oh my God! Where'd you get that brownie?" -- The Simpsons
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Old Aug 30, 2002, 06:34 PM   #72
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

Good GOD, Fanfiction.net just INUNDATES you with popup ads!!!!

I had to go there for something else and it just kept popping up windows, some of which had no way to CLOSE them!!!

My God, how do you READ anything there?

ARGH!!!!!!!

Just had to say that...

------------------
Rooftop Sessions - The Finest In Beatles-Related Fiction. August 2002 Issue Now Up!

"In writing, the difference between the right word and almost the right word is like the difference between lightning and lightning bugs." - Mark Twain
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Old Aug 30, 2002, 07:13 PM   #73
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

I invested in a Popup Ad Filter, which works pretty well. Before I got it, there were times when I wound up with multiple ads. Some of them won't close if you click the button in the upper right corner; that actually creates more windows. You have to look for a button in the center of the ad that says, "Close Window."

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Old Aug 30, 2002, 07:46 PM   #74
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

http://yoconsoft.hypermart.net/products.html

The above link is to a freeware program that blocks pop-ups (it's the first program on the list on that page). I've been using it with Windows XP and it's worked fine--you install it and it puts a little icon on the taskbar by your volume control, etc. All you have to do is click the icon to keep the pop-up control off or turn it on. You need it off when you're clicking on a link in Hotmail that's going to open in another window, though, for example. I haven't had any problems with it, though my sister said it didn't work well with her Windows ME system...

The ads that REALLY drive me nuts are those new ones that literally FLY into the middle of your screen and you're forced to watch them before you can click them off. Those are the WORST ones in the world! *grrr*

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Old Aug 30, 2002, 10:09 PM   #75
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

Thanks for the link. Those doggone pop up ads are darned irritating.

------------------
Then we will remember things we said today. Yeah.
-- Beatles, 1964

Read www.rooftopsessions.com for high caliber Beatles fan fiction.

BB1964
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Old Sep 07, 2002, 09:58 AM   #76
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

I'd like to see the results of more Mary-Sue test takers.

------------------
Then we will remember things we said today. Yeah.
-- Beatles, 1964

Read www.rooftopsessions.com for high caliber Beatles fan fiction.

BB1964
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Old Sep 07, 2002, 11:07 PM   #77
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

BB1964--I'm trying to post my character's results from the Mary-Sue test, but I'm having trouble posting it. Apparently, the computer thinks it's too long ...

Anyway, I managed to post it in pieces for you to read. Below are part one and part two.

------------------
... she will cry when she learns we are two...if I fell in love with you ...

"Hello, Homer, I'm George Harrison."
"Oh my God! Where'd you get that brownie?" -- The Simpsons

[This Message Has Been Edited By MonaMe577 On September 08, 2002 12:12 AM]
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Old Sep 07, 2002, 11:08 PM   #78
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

Beatlebangs--I'll bite. Here's the test for my character, Vivian Lang.
* * *
Section 1 - The Name Game
Is the character named after you? (This can be any part of your first name, middle name, last name, nickname, or online identity.) If so, stop now. Put your pencil (mouse?) down and turn in your test. [35] If you can find "Lisa Christine Wilkinson" in "Vivian Edith Lang", you have way too much time on your hands!
DO NOT NAME YOUR CHARACTER AFTER YOURSELF.
DO NOT NAME YOURSELF AFTER YOUR CHARACTER.
THERE ARE ABSOLUTELY NO EXCEPTIONS!!!

-- Is the character's name an unusual spelling of a more common name or word? [1] No.
-- Is the character's name unusual in another way?
A female with a male-sounding name? [1] No. If you really want to get technical, Vivian is a unisex name. Still, when I hear the name Vivian, I think of a woman.
A female version of any Beatle’s name?[3] Not exactly...
A name the character chose for herself, because she "didn't want to forget" something? [1] No.
A noun or adjective not normally used for a name (i.e. Tranquility) [1] Eww..
-- Does the character’s name have a pronunciation that isn’t readily obvious? [1] Only one way I can think of to pronounce Vivian.
-- Is your character named after any Beatles song (i.e. Julia, Eleanor, Michelle)? (1) "Vivian, my belle"? No.
-- Does the character have an unusual nickname that everyone uses instead of her real name? (i.e. Her name is Jane, but everyone calls her Butterfly.) [1] John gives her a nickname, but he's the only one who uses it, so no.
-- Does the character have a “really cool” name that you wish you had? [1] Would I like to be named Vivian? Not really.
-- Is the character's name in the title of the story? [5] No.
-- Did you spend more than a day looking for just the right name? [1] No.
-- Would you ever give your child or a pet the character's name? [1] No.

Section 2 - Physical Attributes
-- Is the character the same gender as you? [1] Yes. +1
-- Is the character from the same racial group as you? (Note: answer yes to this question if the character is an alien or a magical being.) [1] Yes. +1
-- Is the character multi-racial? [1]
More than two races? [3] No to both of these.[/b]
-- Does the character have traits that are not common to her particular race? (i.e. a character who is Japanese and has blue eyes.) [4] No
-- Is the character a teenager or in her early twenties? [1] Yes. +1
-- If not, does the character look like she is a teenager or in her early twenties
for no apparent reason? [2]
For a magical or special scientific reason? [2]
That you plan on making a plot point later? [1] No, no, and no.
-- Is the character stunningly beautiful? [1] Attractive, sure, but stunning? No.
-- Do one or more of the Beatles find the character highly attractive? [1] Sigh...yes. But not right away. +1
Do the other Beatles see her as a threat because of this? [1] No.
-- Does the character have an unusual eye color (violet counts)? [3] Double eww!
Will this be a plot point later? [1] No.
-- Does the character have really nice hair that you describe more than once, or on the first page? [1] No.
-- Do you give us a complete physical description of the character on the first page? (height, weight, age, hair, eyes, etc.) [2] No. I never give the reader a complete description of Viv anywhere in the story. I just reveal a few details here and there. Don't hit your readers over the head with it--they're smart people, most of them, they can figure it out!



------------------
... she will cry when she learns we are two...if I fell in love with you ...

"Hello, Homer, I'm George Harrison."
"Oh my God! Where'd you get that brownie?" -- The Simpsons
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Old Sep 07, 2002, 11:09 PM   #79
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

Section 3 - Personal Traits
-- Is the character the long-lost child/descendent/sibling of a Beatle? [1] No.
-- Was the character adopted or did she live with people who were not her parents as a child? [1] No.
-- Did the character have a tragic youth? (Examples: abuse, neglect, abandonment, sexual trauma, second or third-class cultural status, slavery, extreme poverty, forced criminality, or being the sole survivor of any disaster) [3] No.
-- Does the character suffer from guilt about something terrible that she did in the past? [1] Guilt? Nope. Viv does have some issues, though they are issues any normal girl would have.
-- Do the other characters eventually convince her that it wasn’t her fault? [1] Nope.
-- Did the character have an unusual birth? [1] No. I haven't even thought about her birth.
-- Does the character have a twin or a clone of the same gender? [2] Nope. She doesn't even have a sister.
About whom you plan on writing another story later? [2] No.
-- Does the character have an extraordinary singing voice? [2] Hmm...tough one. Viv is a singer, but I don't make a huge deal out of her "magnificent singing voice" and she doesn't impress anyone with it. I made her a singer for a reason, so I'll have to say no. Besides, not everyone with a recording group in the 60's had an extraordinary voice.
Or play a musical instrument amazingly well? [1]
The guitar or flute, for instance? [2]
More than one instrument? [2] No to all of these. The Tangerines don't play any instruments.
-- Does the character do what you do for fun or profit? (This includes having the same job you have, or would like to have, or having a job that sounds like a lot of fun even though you know nothing about it.) [1] Singers have to deal with a lot of show-business bullsh*t, so no.
-- Is your character unusally intelligent? [1] No, but she's not a moron.
-- Does she know facts that most ordinary people would not normally know? (i.e. the batting average of every member of the New York Yankees, from 1945-1950) [1] Who the hell DOES know that?
-- Is the character a professional singer? [3] Yes. +3
An actress? [2] Nope.
A model? [1] Nope nope.
A songwriter/dancer/producer/band manager? [2] No.
A fan? [5] Nope again.
-- Is this character royalty of any type? [3]Princess Vivian! No.
That she does not originally know about? [3] No.
-- Does the character make more wisecracks than John Lennon? [1] She has a sense of humor, but so do her friends, and she finds herself outwitted at times. So no.
Because John Lennon is your favorite Beatle? [1] John is my favorite Beatle, but that's not why I gave Viv a sense of humor.
-- Does everyone end up liking your character (at least among the characters you like)? [1] Hmm. I guess so. +1

Section 4 - Super Powers
-- Does the character have any form of magical/superhuman powers? [2] No.
-- Is your character from another planet? [2] No.
-- Does the character have telekinesis or telepathy? (Answer yes if the character has a twin.) [2] No.
-- Is your character psychic, or does she just "know things" for no apparent reason? [2] No. Too cliche.
-- Can the character fly? [1] No.
Without the aid of wings? [2] No.
-- Do animals (especially cute, fuzzy ones) instinctively like the character? [2] No. There are no animals in my story--except for "birds". But you'll read about that later...

Section 5 - The Love Connection
-- Does the character fall in love with and/or have sex with one or more of the Beatles? [3] Gulp! Yes. +3
Because you want to have sex with one or more of the Beatles? [1] Tricky, because John is no longer with us and I have a wonderful boyfriend. But if I were young and in the 60's ... Fine. Yes. +1
-- Does the character fall in love with and/or have sex with another person from the music world? (Think: A Beatle’s brother, a dancer, a producer, a songwriter, etc.) [1] (Add an extra point if that person is Brian Epstein.) Good old Eppy! But no.
With whom you would like to fall in love and/or have sex? [1] No.
-- Does the character fall in love with and/or have sex with another original character? [1] No.
With whom you would like to fall in love and/or have sex? [1] No.
-- Does the story feature the character's wedding? [1]
To a Beatle? [2]
And is attended by one or more of the Beatles and/or Brian Epstein, Mal Evans, etc.? [2] No. No wedding for Viv!!

Section 6 - The Real World and Your Character
-- Would you like to be friends with the character if you met in real life? [1] Sure. +1
-- Do you think everyone who reads the story should automatically like the character and want to be friends with the character? [1] No. I would never expect that--everyone's different!
-- If someone tells you he/she doesn't like your character, do you take it as a personal attack on you? [1] No. Constructive criticism, at least, means they take you seriously as a writer.
-- Do you ever pretend, just to yourself, that you are the character? (Be honest!) [1] Sigh...SIGH! Alright, yes. Every once in a while. +1

Section 7 - The Fiendish Plot
-- Do you introduce the character and give us her complete life history on the first page of the story? [2] No.
-- Do you tell the story from the character's point of view, all or mostly? [1] Yes, the story is told in first person, Viv's POV. +1
-- Does the character meet the Beatles, and after a few tense pages of plot, become friends with them? [2] Not after a few tense pages of plot, but the Beatles and the Tangerines do become friends. So, yes, I guess. +2
-- Does your character die for any reason? [5] No. Viv lives!
When she dies, do one or more of the Beatles go into deep mourning? [1] No.
Is she brought back to life by the end of the story? (This includes your character being presumed dead, but turning up alive after all.) [4] No.
Is she brought back to life in a sequel? [4] No.
-- Does the character manage to develop a friendship with an otherwise villainous character, and through this friendship, reform the other character? [2] No.
Is the villain in question Yoko Ono? [1] Hee hee! No.
Is the villain in question Mark David Chapman? [10] (Note: DON'T write a story like this. Ever.) NEVER, NEVER, EVER would I write a story like this, read a story like this, or even THINK of a story like this.
-- Does the villain become evil again after the character dies, but retain some last vestige of goodness from his/her interaction with the character, evidenced in one selfless action at the end of the story? [4] No.
-- Does the character save the day and/or another character's life? [3] No.
Through magical/mystical intervention? [1] Never!
Through dying? [3] Yeah, right!
Through almost dying? [2] No.
-- Do you plan to write many more stories revolving around this character? [1] I hadn't even thought about it, so no.

* * *

And Viv Lang scores a ...
17!!!

A "borderline character. Characters in this range are potential MS's, who can go either way dependent on the author's skill."

Let's hope I have enough skill.

------------------
... she will cry when she learns we are two...if I fell in love with you ...

"Hello, Homer, I'm George Harrison."
"Oh my God! Where'd you get that brownie?" -- The Simpsons
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Old Sep 08, 2002, 06:39 AM   #80
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

Thanks!

I like these tests. I find these interesting.

------------------
Then we will remember things we said today. Yeah.
-- Beatles, 1964

Read www.rooftopsessions.com for high caliber Beatles fan fiction.

BB1964
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