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Old Aug 23, 2002, 01:49 AM   #1
MonaMe577
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Default Beatles Mary-Sue Test

Just a fun little test for anyone considering writing fan fiction. In case you didn't know, Mary-Sue is the amazingly beautiful, talented version of yourself with whom your favorite Beatle falls madly in love (and that readers absolutely hate!!) Adapted from the original about the show "Gargoyles" to suit our boys. Is YOUR character a Mary-Sue?

Section 1 - The Name Game
Is the character named after you? (This can be any part of your first name, middle name, last name, nickname, or online identity.) If so, stop now. Put your pencil (mouse?) down and turn in your test. [35]
DO NOT NAME YOUR CHARACTER AFTER YOURSELF.
DO NOT NAME YOURSELF AFTER YOUR CHARACTER.
THERE ARE ABSOLUTELY NO EXCEPTIONS!!!

-- Is the character's name an unusual spelling of a more common name or word? [1]
-- Is the character's name unusual in another way?
A female with a male-sounding name? [1]
A female version of any Beatle’s name?[3]
A name the character chose for herself, because she "didn't want to forget" something? [1]
A noun or adjective not normally used for a name (i.e. Tranquility) [1]
-- Does the character’s name have a pronunciation that isn’t readily obvious? [1]
-- Is your character named after any Beatles song (i.e. Julia, Eleanor, Michelle)? (1)
-- Does the character have an unusual nickname that everyone uses instead of her real name? (i.e. Her name is Jane, but everyone calls her Butterfly.) [1]
-- Does the character have a “really cool” name that you wish you had? [1]
-- Is the character's name in the title of the story? [5]
-- Did you spend more than a day looking for just the right name? [1]
-- Would you ever give your child or a pet the character's name? [1]

Section 2 - Physical Attributes
-- Is the character the same gender as you? [1]
-- Is the character from the same racial group as you? (Note: answer yes to this question if the character is an alien or a magical being.) [1]
-- Is the character multi-racial? [1]
More than two races? [3]
-- Does the character have traits that are not common to her particular race? (i.e. a character who is Japanese and has blue eyes.) [4]
-- Is the character a teenager or in her early twenties? [1]
-- If not, does the character look like she is a teenager or in her early twenties
for no apparent reason? [2]
For a magical or special scientific reason? [2]
That you plan on making a plot point later? [1]
-- Is the character stunningly beautiful? [1]
-- Do one or more of the Beatles find the character highly attractive? [1]
Do the other Beatles see her as a threat because of this? [1]
-- Does the character have an unusual eye color (violet counts)? [3]
Will this be a plot point later? [1]
-- Does the character have really nice hair that you describe more than once, or on the first page? [1]
-- Do you give us a complete physical description of the character on the first page? (height, weight, age, hair, eyes, etc.) [2]

Section 3 - Personal Traits
-- Is the character the long-lost child/descendent/sibling of a Beatle? [1]
-- Was the character adopted or did she live with people who were not her parents as a child? [1]
-- Did the character have a tragic youth? (Examples: abuse, neglect, abandonment, sexual trauma, second or third-class cultural status, slavery, extreme poverty, forced criminality, or being the sole survivor of any disaster) [3]
-- Does the character suffer from guilt about something terrible that she did in the past? [1]
-- Do the other characters eventually convince her that it wasn’t her fault? [1]
-- Did the character have an unusual birth? [1]
-- Does the character have a twin or a clone of the same gender? [2]
About whom you plan on writing another story later? [2]
-- Does the character have an extraordinary singing voice? [2]
Or play a musical instrument amazingly well? [1]
The guitar or flute, for instance? [2]
More than one instrument? [2]
-- Does the character do what you do for fun or profit? (This includes having the same job you have, or would like to have, or having a job that sounds like a lot of fun even though you know nothing about it.) [1]
-- Is your character extremely intelligent? [1]
-- Does she know facts that most ordinary people would not normally know? (i.e. the batting average of every member of the New York Yankees, from 1945-1950) [1]
-- Is the character a professional singer? [3]
An actress? [2]
A model? [1]
A songwriter/dancer/producer/band manager? [2]
A fan? [5]
-- Is this character royalty of any type? [3]
That she does not originally know about? [3]
-- Does the character make more wisecracks than John Lennon? [1]
Because John Lennon is your favorite Beatle? [1]
-- Does everyone end up liking your character (at least among the characters you like)? [1]

Section 4 - Super Powers
-- Does the character have any form of magical/superhuman powers? [2]
-- Is your character from another planet? [2]
-- Does the character have telekinesis or telepathy? (Answer yes if the character has a twin.) [2]
-- Is your character psychic, or does she just "know things" for no apparent reason? [2]
-- Can the character fly? [1]
Without the aid of wings? [2]
-- Do animals (especially cute, fuzzy ones) instinctively like the character? [2]

Section 5 - The Love Connection
-- Does the character fall in love with and/or have sex with one or more of the Beatles? [3]
Because you want to have sex with one or more of the Beatles? [1]
-- Does the character fall in love with and/or have sex with another person from the music world? (Think: A Beatle’s brother, a dancer, a producer, a songwriter, etc.) [1] (Add an extra point if that person is Brian Epstein.)
With whom you would like to fall in love and/or have sex? [1]
-- Does the character fall in love with and/or have sex with another original character? [1]
With whom you would like to fall in love and/or have sex? [1]
-- Does the story feature the character's wedding? [1]
To a Beatle? [2]
And is attended by one or more of the Beatles and/or Brian Epstein, Mal Evans, etc.? [2]

Section 6 - The Real World and Your Character
-- Would you like to be friends with the character if you met in real life? [1]
-- Do you think everyone who reads the story should automatically like the character and want to be friends with the character? [1]
-- If someone tells you he/she doesn't like your character, do you take it as a personal attack on you? [1]
-- Do you ever pretend, just to yourself, that you are the character? (Be honest!) [1]

Section 7 - The Fiendish Plot
-- Do you introduce the character and give us her complete life history on the first page of the story? [2]
-- Do you tell the story from the character's point of view, all or mostly? [1]
-- Does the character meet the Beatles, and after a few tense pages of plot, become friends with them? [2]
-- Does your character die for any reason? [5]
When she dies, do one or more of the Beatles go into deep mourning? [1]
Is she brought back to life by the end of the story? (This includes your character being presumed dead, but turning up alive after all.) [4]
Is she brought back to life in a sequel? [4]
-- Does the character manage to develop a friendship with an otherwise villainous character, and through this friendship, reform the other character? [2]
Is the villain in question Yoko Ono? [1]
Is the villain in question Mark David Chapman? [10] (Note: DON'T write a story like this. Ever.)
-- Does the villain become evil again after the character dies, but retain some last vestige of goodness from his/her interaction with the character, evidenced in one selfless action at the end of the story? [4]
-- Does the character save the day and/or another character's life? [3]
Through magical/mystical intervention? [1]
Through dying? [3]
Through almost dying? [2]
-- Do you plan to write many more stories revolving around this character? [1]


Scoring:

0-14: Developed character, unlikely Mary Sue.
15-30: Borderline character. Characters in this range are potential MS's, who can go either way dependent on the author's skill.
31-50: Mary Sue. Proceed with greatest caution.
51+: Please reconsider your character and plot. Do not subject Beatles fans to this God-awful story!


------------------
... she will cry when she learns we are two...if I fell in love with you ...

"Hello, Homer, I'm George Harrison."
"Oh my God! Where'd you get that brownie?" -- The Simpsons



[This Message Has Been Edited By MonaMe577 On September 07, 2002 12:53 AM]
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Old Aug 23, 2002, 05:31 AM   #2
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By MonaMe577:
(and that readers absolutely hate!!)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hate reading them! lol! But they are SOOO fun to write! I'm going to take that test later when I have more time.

------------------
"There's high, and there's high, and to get really high--I mean so high that you can walk on the water, that high--that's where I'm goin'."
- George Harrison, circa 1968
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Old Aug 23, 2002, 09:20 AM   #3
beatlebangs1964
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

I am not a fan of the Mary-Sue personally. I am never in any of my stories and I don't ever use my name anywhere. None of my fictitious characters have birthdays in the month mine is in nor do they have the birthdate regardless of month.

It is true that all writers find pieces and parts of themselves in their characters. Writers often base stories on personal events and an effective writing tool is to write from personal experience. You, the writer, can fictionalize it, but by using personal experience as the foundation or core, the story is much more plausible and effective.

------------------
Then we will remember things we said today. Yeah.
-- Beatles, 1964

Read www.rooftopsessions.com for high caliber Beatles fan fiction.

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Old Aug 23, 2002, 09:38 AM   #4
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

Okay...I haven't taken the test yet, but it looks pretty funny!

That said -- I'm not totally against Mary Sue stories, it just depends on how they are handled. Most of them are pretty abysmal, to be sure -- but handled well, a Mary Sue can be a lot of fun. Depends on the writer and the character he/she creates, of course.

The trick here is to write a Mary Sue WITHOUT it looking like you are! And it can be done, just requires someone who knows what they're doing!!!

For the record, I've written a few Mary Sues in my life -- but then again, isn't nearly every fanfic a wish-fulfillment scenario anyway, whether it's a romantic story or a SF story or whatever? Fanfic by its very nature lends itself to the Mary Sue scenario...but again, the caveat to writers is to make it BELIEVABLE. Don't create a character who's too good to be true, and NEVER, NEVER, NEVER use your own name in the story if you can possibly avoid it. (I learned that one the hard way when someone stole a notebook I had with a story in it -- but I was 14 at the time, of course...I've learned better!)



------------------
Rooftop Sessions - The Finest In Beatles-Related Fiction. August 2002 Issue Now Up!

Come see me and your favorite Rooftop Sessions authors at the Chicago Beatlefest - August 16-18!

"In writing, the difference between the right word and almost the right word is like the difference between lightning and lightning bugs." - Mark Twain
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Old Aug 23, 2002, 10:58 AM   #5
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

I agree with you, HMV. Every character, to a certain degree, has some sort of Mary-Sue quality. A little self-insertion isn't always a bad thing, as long as the character sounds like a real person and not some idealized version of yourself:

Hi, my name is Leesah. I'm 5'8", 110 pounds (I wish! ) with blonde hair that cascades in waves down to my waist and shiny violet eyes. I sing and play guitar, flute, and piano.

Hey, I like this me better, but chances are, no one else does. Usually, I stop reading a story when I the first line is "Hi, my name is ..." This is the first sign that the story will be BAD...

------------------
... she will cry when she learns we are two...if I fell in love with you ...

"Hello, Homer, I'm George Harrison."
"Oh my God! Where'd you get that brownie?" -- The Simpsons

[This Message Has Been Edited By MonaMe577 On August 23, 2002 11:59 AM]
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Old Aug 23, 2002, 12:23 PM   #6
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By MonaMe577:
I agree with you, HMV. Every character, to a certain degree, has some sort of Mary-Sue quality. A little self-insertion isn't always a bad thing, as long as the character sounds like a real person and not some idealized version of yourself:

Hi, my name is Leesah. I'm 5'8", 110 pounds (I wish! ) with blonde hair that cascades in waves down to my waist and shiny violet eyes. I sing and play guitar, flute, and piano.

Hey, I like this me better, but chances are, no one else does. Usually, I stop reading a story when I the first line is "Hi, my name is ..." This is the first sign that the story will be BAD...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

SO true, MonaMe! I can't tell you HOW many stories I've read (and remember, because of Rooftop, I read a LOT of fanfic) where the heroine is just too good to be true! Let's see..."fiery red hair, emerald-green eyes, a figure to die for..." Ugh, not my cuppa, not in the least! That, and characters with unrealistically anachronistic names...for God's sake, if you're gonna write a story in which the girl in question is supposed to be 20-25 in 1964, GO BACK AND LOOK to see what names were popular for girls in 1940-45! Do NOT name her "Kayla" or "Tiffany" or some other anachronistic name!!! (Ah, I could go off on my pet peeves about Mary Sues, but it'd take up too much forum space! )

On the other hand, in the upcoming issue of Rooftop, I'm planning to start running a new story that is definitely a Mary Sue. But the character in question is charming, not all blown out of proportion, and the story itself is a lovely read...so it really does depend. As I said, it's possible to do it well, but it's all in the approach!

------------------
Rooftop Sessions - The Finest In Beatles-Related Fiction. August 2002 Issue Now Up!

Come see me and your favorite Rooftop Sessions authors at the Chicago Beatlefest - August 16-18!

"In writing, the difference between the right word and almost the right word is like the difference between lightning and lightning bugs." - Mark Twain
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Old Aug 23, 2002, 12:49 PM   #7
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By HMVNipper:
for God's sake, if you're gonna write a story in which the girl in question is supposed to be 20-25 in 1964, GO BACK AND LOOK to see what names were popular for girls in 1940-45! Do NOT name her "Kayla" or "Tiffany" or some other anachronistic name!!!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How true!
Not to mention the incredable capacity of certain writers to create "damsels in disgrace" who were supposed to move us but can only irritate us...! That's even worse than the "can-do-all" type of Mary Sue in my opinion!

Anna




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Old Aug 23, 2002, 12:53 PM   #8
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

Yeah, anachronisms make me crazy too (and I'm not even a fan fic person!); I read one once where the heroine was going off to high school in 1967 wearing her jeans.....uh, WAIT! I was in 1st grade (yes, in public school) in 1967 and we weren't allowed to wear even slacks, let alone jeans to school until I was in 6th grade!!

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Old Aug 23, 2002, 02:18 PM   #9
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

Just for the record, in case anyone read the beginning of my own fan-fic in my earlier thread, Vivian Lang scored a 17 on the Mary-Sue test, a "potential Mary-Sue which could go either way depending on the skill of the author." Let's hope I have enough skill to steer her in the right direction.

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... she will cry when she learns we are two...if I fell in love with you ...

"Hello, Homer, I'm George Harrison."
"Oh my God! Where'd you get that brownie?" -- The Simpsons
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Old Aug 23, 2002, 02:26 PM   #10
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

Oh that survey was a scream! I applied it to my own fics and ended up with a score of 30...right on the border between potential MS and definite MS. Jeez, I hope it isn't *that* Mary Sue-ish to everyone else.

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Old Aug 23, 2002, 03:47 PM   #11
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

I applied the test to my character Joanna Lennon from "Move Over Ms. L." and got a score of 25. She is based on me to some extent, but I didn't think she'd turn out that high.

Some points that are in that test are ones I don't necessarily agree with -- just because something's in first person doesn't make it a Mary Sue, for instance. I normally write in third person, but Joanna's voice was so strong I had to write "Move Over Ms. L." in first person. And as far as wanting readers to like your character -- don't 90% or more of all writers want their readers to like their characters? (That's just a random stat made up to make a point.) If you want readers to stay with your story, the story has to be interesting or enjoyable on some level, and one way of doing that is by making your main character likeable. One writing book I have even discusses qualities that make a character likeable/unlikable. Oh well, at least these items were only one point each.

Other traits of Mary Sues that I didn't see specifically mentioned in the test are a heroine with no personality faults and a lack of conflict in the story or striving on the heroine's part to achieve her goals. In a Mary Sue, things -- like a Beatle -- just fall into the heroine's lap. I must have a strong work ethic; I want my heroines to work for what they want and overcome challenges along the way. That's more like real life, and, IMO, much more satisifying than having the rewards just granted for no specific reason.

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Lennon's Line--A science fiction series about John's descendants--Updated 7/20/02

[This Message Has Been Edited By SF4-EVER On August 23, 2002 04:59 PM]
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Old Aug 23, 2002, 03:48 PM   #12
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

I never liked the Harlequin/Silhouette romances and others of that ilk. I never liked the idealized female protagonist with the hair and figure to die for who's in distress, rescued and you know inside of 5 seconds the ending/outcome of the story. In general, I don't care for the Mary-Sue genre. In some cases, if not cliche and predictable, it can be pulled off. There is a good article in Rooftop called "Beyond the Mary-Sue" which gives excellent pointers about writing plausible romantic fiction.

And like Susan, I can't stand things that clash with the era in which the story is set. That really drives me up a tree. I have plenty of pet peeves about Mary-Sues, but in the interest of brevity will close here.

[size="1"][ Apr 22, 2003, 10:28 AM: Message Edited By: beatlebangs1964 ][/size]
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Old Aug 23, 2002, 04:13 PM   #13
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By SF4-EVER:

Some points that are in that test are ones I don't necessarily agree with -- just because something's in first person doesn't make it a Mary Sue, for instance. I normally write in third person, but Joanna's voice was so strong I had to write "Move Over Ms. L." in first person.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with this: "They Say It's Wonderful", my story, is also in first-person. I went to one fan-fiction site that wouldn't accept any stories written in first-person voice, dismissing them all as "Mary-Sue" stories. This is a little extreme!

I found this test, written for several different genres of fan-fiction, and simply adapted it to fit Beatles fan-fiction. Perhaps there are some items which should be reconsidered.

------------------
... she will cry when she learns we are two...if I fell in love with you ...

"Hello, Homer, I'm George Harrison."
"Oh my God! Where'd you get that brownie?" -- The Simpsons

[This Message Has Been Edited By MonaMe577 On August 23, 2002 05:15 PM]
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Old Aug 23, 2002, 04:22 PM   #14
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

Okay...that was a fun read, now I'm going to put it to test with my character for my story--Katherine Anne Wallace. I was confused by the number system, so I wrote out my answers instead. If someone can explain the number system to me, I'll gladly go through this again and rank my character a "Mary Sue" type or not. This was fun!
-Kristi

Section 1 - The Name Game
Is the character named after you? (This can be any part of your first name, middle name, last name, nickname, or online identity.) If so, stop now. Put your pencil (mouse?) down and turn in your test. 'No, my character is *not* named after me. I've always liked the name Katherine.'
DO NOT NAME YOUR CHARACTER AFTER YOURSELF.
DO NOT NAME YOURSELF AFTER YOUR CHARACTER.
THERE ARE ABSOLUTELY NO EXCEPTIONS!!!

-- Is the character's name an unusual spelling of a more common name or word?
Nope
-- Is the character's name unusual in another way?
Nope
A female with a male-sounding name? Nope
A female version of any Beatle’s name? Nope
A name the character chose for herself, because she "didn't want to forget" something? Nope
A noun or adjective not normally used for a name (i.e. Tranquility) Katherine does mean pure and virginal....
-- Does the character’s name have a pronunciation that isn’t readily obvious? Nope
-- Is your character named after any Beatles song (i.e. Julia, Eleanor, Michelle)? No way.
-- Does the character have an unusual nickname that everyone uses instead of her real name? (i.e. Her name is Jane, but everyone calls her Butterfly.) John gives her a nickname--'Kit Kat'
-- Does the character have a “really cool” name that you wish you had? Nope
-- Is the character's name in the title of the story? Nope
-- Did you spend more than a day looking for just the right name? Nope
-- Would you ever give your child or a pet the character's name? Child--yes, I think so.

Section 2 - Physical Attributes
-- Is the character the same gender as you?
Yes
-- Is the character from the same racial group as you? (Note: answer yes to this question if the character is an alien or a magical being.) Yes
-- Is the character multi-racial? [1]
More than two races? No
-- Does the character have traits that are not common to her particular race? (i.e. a character who is Japanese and has blue eyes.)
No
-- Is the character a teenager or in her early twenties? Early 20's.
-- If not, does the character look like she is a teenager or in her early twenties
for no apparent reason? ---
For a magical or special scientific reason? ---
That you plan on making a plot point later? ---
-- Is the character stunningly beautiful? Nope
-- Do one or more of the Beatles find the character highly attractive? Just one--John.
Do the other Beatles see her as a threat because of this? No, the other Beatles are
not in my story.
-- Does the character have an unusual eye color (violet counts)? No.
Will this be a plot point later? No.
-- Does the character have really nice hair that you describe more than once, or on the first page? No.
-- Do you give us a complete physical description of the character on the first page? (height, weight, age, hair, eyes, etc.) No.

Section 3 - Personal Traits
-- Is the character the long-lost child/descendent/sibling of a Beatle? No.
-- Was the character adopted or did she live with people who were not her parents as a child? No.
-- Did the character have a tragic youth? Not really--although her brother dies in Vietnam (but she was 17 when that happened.)(Examples: abuse, neglect, abandonment, sexual trauma, second or third-class cultural status, slavery, extreme poverty, forced criminality, or being the sole survivor of any disaster) Yes, in a way (see above).
-- Does the character suffer from guilt about something terrible that she did in the past? She's grieving for her brother...
-- Do the other characters eventually convince her that it wasn’t her fault? ---
-- Did the character have an unusual birth? Yes, my own birth was unusual, but I had to change her details and stats around to make her story believable).
-- Does the character have a twin or a clone of the same gender? Nope.
About whom you plan on writing another story later? Not sure....
-- Does the character have an extraordinary singing voice? No, it's good, but not great.
Or play a musical instrument amazingly well? She knows some piano.
The guitar or flute, for instance? [2]
More than one instrument? Just piano. Her brother played the guitar.
-- Does the character do what you do for fun or profit? (This includes having the same job you have, or would like to have, or having a job that sounds like a lot of fun even though you know nothing about it.) She works at a library, later an antique shop. Where as, I'm unemployed.
-- Is your character extremely intelligent? No...never went to college...
-- Does she know facts that most ordinary people would not normally know? (i.e. the batting average of every member of the New York Yankees, from 1945-1950) No...
-- Is the character a professional singer? No way...
An actress? Nope
A model? Nope
A songwriter/dancer/producer/band
manager? Nope...
A fan? Yes...
-- Is this character royalty of any type? No
way...
That she does not originally know about? Nope...
-- Does the character make more wisecracks than John Lennon? No...
Because John Lennon is your favorite Beatle? No...
-- Does everyone end up liking your character (at least among the characters you like)? According to the people who've read my story (Beatles and non-Beatles fan--they all liked my character).

Section 4 - Super Powers
-- Does the character have any form of magical/superhuman powers? Nope...
-- Is your character from another planet? No.
-- Does the character have telekinesis or telepathy? (Answer yes if the character has a twin.) No...
-- Is your character psychic, or does she just "know things" for no apparent reason? No...
-- Can the character fly? No....
Without the aid of wings? What?? No way...
-- Do animals (especially cute, fuzzy ones) instinctively like the character? No...

Section 5 - The Love Connection
-- Does the character fall in love with and/or have sex with one or more of the Beatles? She will fall in love with John, but she'll never tell him that. Yes, they will have sex. But not for awhile...
Because you want to have sex with one or more of the Beatles? No...
-- Does the character fall in love with and/or have sex with another person from the music world? (Think: A Beatle’s brother, a dancer, a producer, a songwriter, etc.) No...
(Add an extra point if that person is Brian Epstein.)
With whom you would like to fall in love and/or have sex? No....
-- Does the character fall in love with and/or have sex with another original character? Yes....
With whom you would like to fall in love and/or have sex? No...
-- Does the story feature the character's wedding? A brief description...
To a Beatle? No, to another original character...
And is attended by one or more Beatles and/or Brian Epstein, Mal Evans, etc.? None of the Beatles attend Katherine's wedding.

Section 6 - The Real World and Your Character
-- Would you like to be friends with the character if you met in real life? Yes, I would...
-- Do you think everyone who reads the story should automatically like the character and want to be friends with the character? Yes...
-- If someone tells you he/she doesn't like your character, do you take it as a personal attack on you? Depends what they say...
-- Do you ever pretend, just to yourself, that you are the character? (Be honest!) Sometimes...she's better at certain things than I am...

Section 7 - The Fiendish Plot
-- Do you introduce the character and give us her complete life history on the first page of the story? No...
-- Do you tell the story from the character's point of view, all or mostly? All in first person, from Katherine's POV.
-- Does the character meet the Beatles, and after a few tense pages of plot, become friends with them? Not for awhile...
-- Does your character die for any reason? She doesn't die, her brother does though.
When she dies, do one or more of the Beatles go into deep mourning? Nope...
Is she brought back to life by the end of the story? (This includes your character being presumed dead, but turning up alive after all.) Nope...
Is she brought back to life in a sequel? There is no sequel to my story...
-- Does the character manage to develop a friendship with an otherwise villainous character, and through this friendship, reform the other character? Nope
Is the villain in question Yoko Ono? Nope
Is the villain in question Mark David Chapman? No way!
(Note: DON'T write a story like this. Ever.)
-- Does the villain become evil again after the character dies, but retain some last vestige of goodness from his/her interaction with the character, evidenced in one selfless action at the end of the story? Nope
-- Does the character save the day and/or another character's life? Nope...
Through magical/mystical intervention? [1]
Through dying? Nope
Through almost dying? Nope
-- Do you plan to write many more stories revolving around this character? Nope, just this one...


Scoring:

0-14: Developed character, unlikely Mary Sue.
15-30: Borderline character. Characters in this range are potential MS's, who can go either way dependent on the author's skill.
31-50: Mary Sue. Proceed with greatest caution.
51+: Please reconsider your character and plot. Do not subject Beatles fans to this God-awful story!



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"In the best of times, our days are numbered anyway. And so it would be a crime against nature for any generation to take the world crisis so solemnly that we would put off doing those things for which we were intended for in the first place, the oppurtunity to do good work, to fall in love, to enjoy friends, to hit a ball and to bounce a baby." --Allistar Cooke


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Old Aug 23, 2002, 04:23 PM   #15
MonaMe577
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

Another one of my pet-peeves with romance stories featuring the Beatles is the tendency to morph them into the author's dream lover and overlook who they really were as people. Many stories on fanfiction.net are like this, especially involving John Lennon.

John Lennon was by no means an "I-wuv-you, kissy-wissy-wissy" type person, but so many stories featuring John have him playing this role. Some authors tend to craft a Fabio-type, lovey-dovey beefcake and call him John Lennon; usually, it features the heroine cooing, "Oh John, you're nothing like they say you are!" That just doesn't fly with me. If you're going to write about a Beatle, write about all of him, not just the parts you like!!!

I've noticed many writers tend to avoid John all together in romance stories--not romantic enough, I guess? Either they offer a glossed over version (Diet Lennon) or they relegate John to the wise-cracking, obnoxious friend. Too bad!!

------------------
... she will cry when she learns we are two...if I fell in love with you ...

"Hello, Homer, I'm George Harrison."
"Oh my God! Where'd you get that brownie?" -- The Simpsons
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Old Aug 23, 2002, 04:29 PM   #16
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

Imagine--is your story published anywhere? I'd love to read it. Always in the mood for a good John romance ...

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... she will cry when she learns we are two...if I fell in love with you ...

"Hello, Homer, I'm George Harrison."
"Oh my God! Where'd you get that brownie?" -- The Simpsons
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Old Aug 23, 2002, 05:55 PM   #17
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By MonaMe577:
Another one of my pet-peeves with romance stories featuring the Beatles is the tendency to morph them into the author's dream lover and overlook who they really were as people. Many stories on fanfiction.net are like this, especially involving John Lennon.

John Lennon was by no means an "I-wuv-you, kissy-wissy-wissy" type person, but so many stories featuring John have him playing this role. Some authors tend to craft a Fabio-type, lovey-dovey beefcake and call him John Lennon; usually, it features the heroine cooing, "Oh John, you're nothing like they say you are!" That just doesn't fly with me. If you're going to write about a Beatle, write about all of him, not just the parts you like!!!

I've noticed many writers tend to avoid John all together in romance stories--not romantic enough, I guess? Either they offer a glossed over version (Diet Lennon) or they relegate John to the wise-cracking, obnoxious friend. Too bad!!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh My God, is that EVER true! GAH, there's nothing I hate more in fanfic than the "Martin Luther Lennon" story that paints him as a saint. And almost as bad are the stories where he's SUCH a wiseass you want to smack him!

I think that in order to write ANY of the Beatles well, you have to KNOW about them -- read (more than one book, even the so-called "bad" ones), listen to or watch interviews, watch the films, stuff like that...

I think John scares a lot of people when it comes to writing romance. I had one friend tell me that she just didn't find him romantic at all. Now, I beg to differ -- while he probably didn't do stuff that was conventionally romantic, I don't believe he was completely devoid of the emotion or ability, either. No one who didn't understand romance could have written half the songs he did. But I think they key to writing John is to understand that, in all likelihood, those sorts of strong emotions about "mushy" stuff were not the kinds of things he would let show without a great deal of consideration. I think he'd have to really trust a person before he'd show that side of himself, but once he did, he could certainly rival any romantic deed Paul could come up with!

The issue with many of us John gals is also that "good girl, bad boy" thing, you know? It's really a cliche, but cliches are such because they're ultimately true, after all. Part of the thrill in John as a romantic hero is that bad boy streak...you KNOW that deep down he's NOT really a rotten hoodlum, but that vague sense of menace can be very sexy...

I could go on about this all night, but I think that you get the idea...

------------------
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Old Aug 23, 2002, 08:03 PM   #18
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By HMVNipper:


I think John scares a lot of people when it comes to writing romance. I had one friend tell me that she just didn't find him romantic at all. Now, I beg to differ -- while he probably didn't do stuff that was conventionally romantic, I don't believe he was completely devoid of the emotion or ability, either. No one who didn't understand romance could have written half the songs he did. But I think they key to writing John is to understand that, in all likelihood, those sorts of strong emotions about "mushy" stuff were not the kinds of things he would let show without a great deal of consideration. I think he'd have to really trust a person before he'd show that side of himself, but once he did, he could certainly rival any romantic deed Paul could come up with!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can see now why not too many writers tackle John romances. I'm writing one myself, actually, and it's turned out to be quite a bit more difficult than I thought it would be. John, in my opinion, is the hardest Beatle to write, especially when trying to imitate that famous Liverpudlian wit (another pet peeve--authors who try to have John crack jokes that just AREN'T FUNNY! Not everyone is blessed with a sense of humor, I guess.) Plus, Vivian is not your typical heroine, so I have TWO strong voices to deal with. Aaargh!

I'm sorry--and I know Sir McCartney fans will harpoon me for this--but I happen to find Paul pretty bland. Not nearly as exciting as Johnny, anyway.


------------------
... she will cry when she learns we are two...if I fell in love with you ...

"Hello, Homer, I'm George Harrison."
"Oh my God! Where'd you get that brownie?" -- The Simpsons

[This Message Has Been Edited By MonaMe577 On August 23, 2002 09:03 PM]
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Old Aug 23, 2002, 08:09 PM   #19
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By MonaMe577:
-- Does the character fall in love with and/or have sex with another person from the music world? (Add an extra point if that person is Brian Epstein.)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL! Can you IMAGINE a love story with old Eppy? That cracks me up.

Susan- I know what you mean about the good girl/bad boy thing. I'm pretty much as good as a girl can be, and my mom CANNOT understand why I'm obsessed with John Lennon and people that I think are similar to him. Oh well...I just can't help it.

-lennon4

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Old Aug 23, 2002, 08:32 PM   #20
beatlegirl9977
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Default Re: Beatles Mary-Sue Test

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By MonaMe577:
John, in my opinion, is the hardest Beatle to write, especially when trying to imitate that famous Liverpudlian wit (another pet peeve--authors who try to have John crack jokes that just AREN'T FUNNY! Not everyone is blessed with a sense of humor, I guess.)
I'm sorry--and I know Sir McCartney fans will harpoon me for this--but I happen to find Paul pretty bland. Not nearly as exciting as Johnny, anyway.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For me, John and Paul are the easiest two to write convincingly. I can hear John's wisecracks in my head even before I need to write them. And as for Paul...well, when you've been obsessed with him for as long as I have, it's easy to write him (and Paul is fun to write, believe me!) For some reason I have the worst time writing a decent George or Ringo character, though.

------------------
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