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Old Apr 07, 2005, 10:03 AM   #41
beatlebangs1964
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When it comes to fanfic, my biggest plea is that the literary version of real people be written true to their real counterparts and that actual events are portrayed accurately.
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Old Apr 15, 2005, 07:31 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by beatlebangs1964
When it comes to fanfic, my biggest plea is that the literary version of real people be written true to their real counterparts and that actual events are portrayed accurately.
Well said, beatlebangs.
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Old Apr 16, 2005, 06:25 AM   #43
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YES! well said BB I certainly agee.
But I was watching the Oscar -winning fanfic "Titanic" (let's face it, it IS) the other night and my husband (a Titanic-maniac) noticed inaccuracies in the potrayal of ship protocol, most noteably that NO-one would EVER be allowed to stand on the bow of the ship like the character Jack did in that film.
So while we the Beatlemaniacs may cringe at the contradictions and inaccuracies in our stories apparently it wouldn't bother mild and mainstream fans enough to declare the work a total loss.
I'm not trying to defend the writings of the miserabley, hopelessly historically challenged; just wanted to make the point that sometimes its "okay" to ignore some inaccuracies IF the overall story is quite spectacular and that can be a big "IF" depending on your passion of the subject.
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Old Apr 16, 2005, 06:29 AM   #44
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Well, there's a difference between ignoring history totally and taking a bit of literary license! I always feel that if altering a date slightly or changing a very small detail or two enhances the story and doesn't detract from its credibility, then it's fine.

No one says you have to become a historian in order to write a good fanfic (or any fiction with a slightly historical bent, by the way), but the most important thing is to be sure you keep the flavor of the time about which you are writing. The average fanfic reader probably won't check that closely to make sure that whichever Beatle was standing on whichever spot at whichever time on whichever date -- so if you need to move a thing or two in order to fit your story into your timeframe it's okay. Just don't screw up the things that would jump out at a reader as truly glaring errors! Get the cars right, the clothing right, the technology right, and a futzed date or two isn't going to matter that much.
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Old Apr 16, 2005, 06:32 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Dreamer
YES! well said BB I certainly agee.
But I was watching the Oscar -winning fanfic "Titanic" (let's face it, it IS) the other night and my husband (a Titanic-maniac) noticed inaccuracies in the potrayal of ship protocol, most noteably that NO-one would EVER be allowed to stand on the bow of the ship like the character Jack did in that film. So while we the Beatlemaniacs may cringe at the contradictions and inaccuracies apparently it doesn't bother mild and mainstream fans enough to declare the work a total loss.
I'm not trying to defend the writings of the miserabley, hopelessly historically challenged; just wanted to make the point that sometimes its "okay" to ignore some inaccuracies IF the overall story is quite spectacular and that can be a big "IF" depending on your passion of the subject.
Good point, DD. I knew someone in the Air Force who said the 1986 movie Top Gun was grossly inaccurate, especially the machinery used and the "lax" military protocol. As for 1997's (released 1/98) Titanic, I had trouble with Leo and Kate standing at the bow of that ship. I think viewers knew the movie had been "glamorized" and "sensationalized" to include this love story, but I agree the dramatization of an actual event did not make a shipwreck out this movie. By piquing viewers' interest, these historical "inaccuracies" can be perceived as a form of "fan fic" or an avid interest in a subject, this case being the 1912 Titanic disaster.
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Old Apr 16, 2005, 06:40 AM   #46
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Quote:
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Well, there's a difference between ignoring history totally and taking a bit of literary license! I always feel that if altering a date slightly or changing a very small detail or two enhances the story and doesn't detract from its credibility, then it's fine.

No one says you have to become a historian in order to write a good fanfic (or any fiction with a slightly historical bent, by the way), but the most important thing is to be sure you keep the flavor of the time about which you are writing. The average fanfic reader probably won't check that closely to make sure that whichever Beatle was standing on whichever spot at whichever time on whichever date -- so if you need to move a thing or two in order to fit your story into your timeframe it's okay. Just don't screw up the things that would jump out at a reader as truly glaring errors! Get the cars right, the clothing right, the technology right, and a futzed date or two isn't going to matter that much.
Exactly, Susan! (We were posting at the same time! I didn't see your post until after mine hit). You would not see a Honda Civic in 1964; you'd never see a laptop or a VCR during the Beatle years and Lyndon B. Johnson was president (1963-68) during the bulk of the Beatle years, not Kennedy. You would not see tattooed kids or people wearing spike collars and punk haircuts. When I see GLARING errors, e.g. somebody setting their VCR to catch the 1964 Sullivan program or a character driving a Honda Civic in a story set in 1965, it drives me stark staring up a tree. That kind of thing is what we mean about glaring errors that jump out at and attack readers.

One reason why I just can't stand That 70s Show is way the characters keep hammering viewers over the head with "it's the 70s" when in the REAL 1970s nobody went around declaring the year and the decade. In the REAL 1970s nobody seemed to want them - practically half the shows on television then were period pieces. If the show has to depend on such a big, glaring crutch as a lame title as That 70s Show, then that communicates the message that the show does not have enough momentum to create a PLAUSIBLE period piece. The few times I've sat through that show, the exaggerated acting, tired scripts and heavy dependence on cliches and references to the 70s made me dislike it all the more.

There are many period pieces that were well done without relying on a tired, trite title like that. Look at The Waltons, The Wonder Years, Gunsmoke, Bonanza and even American Dreams to name a few examples. There are plenty, but you get the idea. I admit that I feel strongly about historical accuracy and in American Dreams, which opened with the pilot episode set in 1963, I saw a 1965 Chevrolet Impala in one episode. A 1965 car in 1963?! I DON'T THINK SO! Ponytail holders were not created until 1966 and yet, in the early episodes you see girls wearing them. How can you wear a futuristic product? And drive a future car (a 1965 car in 1963)? In a later episode set in 1965 had kids dancing to songs that didn't come out until 1966! That is the kind of thing that irks me. That is what we mean by historical accuracy and being true to the times you want to portray.
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Old Apr 20, 2005, 03:21 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by beatlebangs1964

One reason why I just can't stand That 70s Show is way the characters keep hammering viewers over the head with "it's the 70s" when in the REAL 1970s nobody went around declaring the year and the decade. In the REAL 1970s nobody seemed to want them - practically half the shows on television then were period pieces. If the show has to depend on such a big, glaring crutch as a lame title as That 70s Show, then that communicates the message that the show does not have enough momentum to create a PLAUSIBLE period piece. The few times I've sat through that show, the exaggerated acting, tired scripts and heavy dependence on cliches and references to the 70s made me dislike it all the more.
Right on, Beatlebangs! I can't stand that show for exactly the same reasons. I hated Dynasty because they were always talking about how they were in Denver. Hey, I live in Denver (well, practically), and I don't go on about how I live in Denver when I'm talking with my friends. I think they figured it out a long time ago.

The thing that makes me hate a piece of Beatles fan fiction more than any other element is fake Beatles. I have a very specific image of them and how they behave and sound, and whenever someone deviates from that image I can't read the story any longer, no matter how well-written it is. I hated the book Paperback Writer for that reason: they sounded American! (It was also doofy.)
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Old Apr 20, 2005, 04:12 PM   #48
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Amen, Sister!

I agree with you about Paperback Writer - it just was not convincing. Beatle literary counterparts that bear no remblance to the real Beatles don't work for me either.
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Old Aug 26, 2005, 11:01 AM   #49
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Old topic, but I thought I'd throw in my two cents.

* Really stilted dialogue, as in a 16-year old girl saying stuff like, "Jane, I am going to the Beatles' concert on this lovely July evening, and although it seems rather unfair of me, I will not bring you." Huh? Sure it's grammaticlly correct, but who talks like that? These authors should try reading their dialogue out loud.

* Stories about girls who've had something awful happen in their past, but it's only mentioned once and never brought up again. Example: Beatle X and Mary-Sue are sitting in a bedroom (where else?). Mary-Sue says, "Gee, I really wish I could love you, but last year I was raped." Beatle X says, "That bastard, I'll kill him!" then takes Mary-Sue in his arms and says, "Don't worry, I'll never let anyone hurt you again." And that's the first and last time we ever hear about it.

Not only is it a horrible cliche, but it's completely unrealistic to think that Mary-Sue is sweet, loving, beautiful, and perfect--oh, and by the way, she was raped. If you're going to include something like that at all, remember that rape is a life-shattering event and maybe include a few details about how the attack affected her afterwards and how she's tried to put her life back together since then. Don't mention it solely for the purpose of having Beatle X swear to protect her right before they have steamy sex. Yecchh!

* Stereotypical characters, like mustache-twirling villains and vapid blonde bimboes. Mary-Sues, too.

* And, of course, bad grammar.
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Old Aug 26, 2005, 12:02 PM   #50
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Oh, I just thought of another one.

* Stories with no conflict. Girl meets Beatle, goes on a date with Beatle, date goes great, they go back to girl's house and have steamy sex. The end.
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Old Aug 28, 2005, 05:08 PM   #51
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*puts a little polish on this old topic*

You know what really makes me stop reading a fanfic? Mediocrity.

I have read some terrible fanfiction -- just the straight-up worst stories ever put to paper in any fandom ever -- but I read them all the way through because they were interesting in a "what the hell is this" kind of way. (Plus, it gives me fodder to scare my friends. Muahahaha.) But if a story is just meh, then I won't waste my time on reading it all the way through.

Mary Sues have been touched upon in this thread, but what I really cannot stand are the insidious Beatle Sues. Especially when Paul is somehow transformed into a weepy fourteen-year-old girl. Yeesh. Come on, dude. Give me, your reader, some credit here, mmkay? I know what the Beatles were like, and none of them acted like fourteen-year-old girls. Honestly.
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Old Aug 28, 2005, 05:49 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by SnarkyKat

I have read some terrible fanfiction -- just the straight-up worst stories ever put to paper in any fandom ever -- but I read them all the way through because they were interesting in a "what the hell is this" kind of way. (Plus, it gives me fodder to scare my friends. Muahahaha.)
Really awful fan fics are like train wrecks--you know you should look away, but you just CAN'T. If nothing else, they show you what NOT to do when writing a fan fic. There are a couple out there from a while back that are just plain-out awful in every respect: characterization, plot, dialogue, and technical aspects like spelling and grammar; they're the benchmark for bad Beatle fan fic!
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Old Aug 28, 2005, 11:51 PM   #53
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Authors who obviously don't know how to write about George or Ringo, so they either write them into the background ("George and Ringo were eating/talking/watching TV") or write them out of the scene altogether ("George and Ringo went to bed early, leaving me and my bestest friend ever alone with John and Paul, the only Beatles who really matter in this story." )
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Old Aug 29, 2005, 04:21 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonaMe577
Authors who obviously don't know how to write about George or Ringo, so they either write them into the background ("George and Ringo were eating/talking/watching TV") or write them out of the scene altogether ("George and Ringo went to bed early, leaving me and my bestest friend ever alone with John and Paul, the only Beatles who really matter in this story." )

Good point... I find especially Ringo is left out in a lot of stories. At least there's a number about George out there and he gets some attention. But no one seems to be able to write anything decent about poor Ringo. I often read about Ringo "going out for a smoke" or "going out with a girl" or whatever, just to get him out of the scene so the author doesn't have to think up dialogue for him. I doubt that as a Beatle, he would ever have spent so much time away from the group, or be as quiet as many authors make him seem!
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Old Aug 29, 2005, 08:18 AM   #55
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Good point... I find especially Ringo is left out in a lot of stories. At least there's a number about George out there and he gets some attention. But no one seems to be able to write anything decent about poor Ringo. I often read about Ringo "going out for a smoke" or "going out with a girl" or whatever, just to get him out of the scene so the author doesn't have to think up dialogue for him. I doubt that as a Beatle, he would ever have spent so much time away from the group, or be as quiet as many authors make him seem!
Now with this, I tend to cut writers some slack (some, but not a whole lot) -- because, even through my limited experience with writing fanfic, I have learned that it's flippin' HARD to write Ringo even somewhat believably. (Ringo fans might feel differently, but I've noticed that there's almost always one Beatle that a fanfic writer doesn't feel comfortable writing.) Besides, if one Beatle is the main focus of the story, then yeah, I think it's okay if the others kinda fall by the wayside a little bit. As long as you acknowledge they, like, exist, I'm alright with this.

Now, if you start writing about some random dude named Paul McCartney, and you don't have John, George, or Ringo around, then you're writing original fiction with a Beatle's name plugged in -- and, really, why would I want to read that? Again, give your reader some credit.
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Old Aug 29, 2005, 08:32 AM   #56
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One of my biggest pet peeves is when characters are not introduced to readers. I just hate it when a character is just sprung onto an audience of readers without any prep, any warning or any idea of who the heck is this character and how does the character fit into a story involving real people?!

My aversion for having characters sicced onto readers is VERY equal opportunity - I dislike this technique REGARDLESS of story; author; genre or source and my feeling is that in order for ANY story to be effective, readers, at the very least should KNOW who the characters are and their roles in the story!
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Old Aug 29, 2005, 08:40 AM   #57
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Quote:
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Good point... I find especially Ringo is left out in a lot of stories. At least there's a number about George out there and he gets some attention. But no one seems to be able to write anything decent about poor Ringo. I often read about Ringo "going out for a smoke" or "going out with a girl" or whatever, just to get him out of the scene so the author doesn't have to think up dialogue for him. I doubt that as a Beatle, he would ever have spent so much time away from the group, or be as quiet as many authors make him seem!
There are some excellent Ringo stories in Rooftop Sessions, such as "Young Love, First Love" and "A Measure of Trust." You can also read synopses of each story in the archives as well as the current issue to find stories about your favorite Beatle. Miss O'Dell's list will also provide more stories about each individual Beatle. She has also grouped the stories into categories, so readers can find stories featuring their favorite Beatle or Beatles.

True, my tastes lean towards George stories, but there are some excellent stories about each Beatle. Susan has said many times she can't print stories she doesn't have, so for people wanting more stories about their Beatle of choice, get rolling on writing some stories. It is an honor to have your work in Rooftop Sessions and you will certainly be among some very good company, such as Susan and several others who post at Beatle Links.
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Old Aug 29, 2005, 09:49 AM   #58
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* Stories about girls who've had something awful happen in their past, but it's only mentioned once and never brought up again. Example: Beatle X and Mary-Sue are sitting in a bedroom (where else?). Mary-Sue says, "Gee, I really wish I could love you, but last year I was raped." Beatle X says, "That bastard, I'll kill him!" then takes Mary-Sue in his arms and says, "Don't worry, I'll never let anyone hurt you again." And that's the first and last time we ever hear about it.
Oh god do I agree!!!! And I highly doubt that Mary would be able to have sex with beatle-x after talking about her horrible ordeal yet the authors have them do it anyways!!

Quote:
Susan has said many times she can't print stories she doesn't have, so for people wanting more stories about their Beatle of choice, get rolling on writing some stories. It is an honor to have your work in Rooftop Sessions and you will certainly be among some very good company, such as Susan and several others who post at Beatle Links.
Yeah but writing a Beatle Fanfic is far easier said than done Beatle Bangs!

A friend of mine got into the beatle this year because I not too subtlely "accidently" slipped a few beatles songs onto a cd I was burning for her. It didn't take long for her to see A hard Days Night and from there wanted to write her own Beatles humor fanfics.

She wrote one about Ringo writing a letter to Santa, which John read out loud in a mocking manner to the others, and saying "jeeze Ring you don't really still believe in Santa do you?" To which Ringo says " waht do you mean believe he's real!!" Well to make a long story short Ringo goes on an adventure to find Santa and prove to the others that he is real.

I tried to say as little to her about that as possible with fear of insulting her.
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Old Aug 29, 2005, 03:16 PM   #59
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Maybe Ringo's song about Santa inspired her.
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Old Aug 29, 2005, 04:10 PM   #60
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Now with this, I tend to cut writers some slack (some, but not a whole lot) -- because, even through my limited experience with writing fanfic, I have learned that it's flippin' HARD to write Ringo even somewhat believably. (Ringo fans might feel differently, but I've noticed that there's almost always one Beatle that a fanfic writer doesn't feel comfortable writing.) Besides, if one Beatle is the main focus of the story, then yeah, I think it's okay if the others kinda fall by the wayside a little bit. As long as you acknowledge they, like, exist, I'm alright with this.
I agree; I find it really difficult to write George or Ringo and make them believable. I can do it just enough to make them minor characters (I know, it looks terrible, putting them into the background all the time), but it's just a matter of literary license, not to insult them or anything like that. If you identify with a particular Beatle, it's always going to be easier to write about him and be true to his character.
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