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Old Jan 14, 2003, 10:05 AM   #21
angelgodiva
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Default Re: "Fat Elvis" Period

He was reportedly following a macrobiotic diet, brown rice, fish, and vegetables--he said so in a few interviews at the time. Knowing him, he probably fell off the wagon rather frequently and then punished himself for his lack of discipline later, though. In any case, it basically seemed to work. He looked to me like he was physically wasting away late in life, but his face seemed tranquil enough, and I do believe that he did finally find inner peace and real happiness.

I am surprised if there aren't any written references in any of the books about him citing that reporter's cruel remark, because it really stuck in his mind and played havoc with his already fragile sense of self image. Maybe he didn't want to mention it in public because he didn't want to give the woman the satisfaction of letting her know how deeply her remark had struck, or maybe he didn't want to let on that he could be injured by the words of the press, I don't know. In any case, John was a very sensitive man, and that remark changed the way he saw himself and haunted him for years. I met him a lmost a decade after the remark was made, and it still hurt.

I'll see if I can find a written reference where he might have mentioned it. I have to admit that I never read most of the books written about John and the Beatles.

[size="1"][ Jan 14, 2003, 11:06 AM: Message Edited By: angelgodiva ][/size]
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Old Jan 14, 2003, 10:17 AM   #22
HMVNipper
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Default Re: "Fat Elvis" Period

I completely agree with you, Fly...John was absolutely GORGEOUS during the filming of Help! And that last pic you posted is awful, he just looks ill. (And I also love John like you can't imagine! So I'm not about to get mad at you -- especially when you're right! [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] )

Angel's right, it was that macrobiotic diet he was on near the end -- those diets are actually kinda dangerous, they don't allow you very much variety of food at all, and frankly, I don't think they are meant for the long-term. But it was a diet like that that both John and Yoko went on before Sean was born, on the advice of a special doctor who told them that they had both abused themselves through drugs and bad food and stuff, and that was why they couldn't have a baby. And after they followed his advice, Sean was conceived and born. So John probably REALLY believed this stuff was healthy -- but I really do not believe that a macrobiotic is the way to go for long-term health, and I think the literature on such things backs me up.

I really think it's sad that one unkind remark by a stupid reporter could mess up someone so outwardly strong as John so completely. But as has been said, he was inwardly very insecure...and his own worst critic. A complex man; gotta love it.
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Old Jan 14, 2003, 10:20 AM   #23
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Default Re: "Fat Elvis" Period

My gawd! [img]graemlins/afraid1.gif[/img] That picture is hard to look at. He looks very ill (almost deathly ill) in it! Dare I say, anorexic..? Do you think he thought he looked "fit" looking like that? I always think of John as kind of "macho" and seeing him looking so frail makes me so sad. [img]graemlins/cry2.gif[/img]

It's been rumored that towards the end that he was doing heroin (and fighting to kick it) and that Yoko allegedly confirmed it. Have any of you heard of this?

[size="1"][ Jan 14, 2003, 11:22 AM: Message Edited By: Magill ][/size]
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Old Jan 14, 2003, 10:25 AM   #24
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Default Re: "Fat Elvis" Period

Quote:
Does anyone know how he lost the weight anyway? It wasn't drugs, was it? [img]graemlins/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Don't take my word for it...but I was visiting some cite and it said, in a matter-of-fact manner, that John was actually anorexic. I don't know if its true, but he did say in an interview that the best way to stay thin was "to starve" yourself.

Also, that Yoko interview I mentioned where she says that John used to purposely not eat when they went to Japan and other places to make her feel sorry for him and take him home, or if he was mad about something.

My opinion is that it was that macrobiotic stuff, which his family blames on Yoko (and they blame a lot of other stuff on the poor woman as well). Aparently, his sister Julia said in an interview that her brother always had a wonderful physique until he started eating nothing but cooked carrots with rice and wasted away to nothing. She said it disturbed their entire family to see him like that, and his aunt Mater (or whatever her name is) had planned a huge meal for him because she was so distraught, but he refused to eat it. And yes, they don't care much for Yoko to this day. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
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Old Jan 14, 2003, 10:30 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted By Fly:
..until he started eating nothing but cooked carrots with rice..
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Well, who ate all that bread he was baking? Everyone but him? [img]graemlins/thinker.gif[/img]
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Old Jan 14, 2003, 10:33 AM   #26
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Default Re: "Fat Elvis" Period

Quote:
Originally Posted By Magill:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Originally Posted By Fly:
..until he started eating nothing but cooked carrots with rice..
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Well, who ate all that bread he was baking? Everyone but him? [img]graemlins/thinker.gif[/img] </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Apparently.

Geez...that is sad...

[size="1"][ Jan 14, 2003, 11:33 AM: Message Edited By: HMVNipper ][/size]
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Old Jan 14, 2003, 10:34 AM   #27
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Default Re: "Fat Elvis" Period

lol! Yeah, you're right. Maybe Sean ate it all! That's why Sean was so adorable and healthy and had all that pretty shiny hair and cute little chubby cheeks. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
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Old Jan 14, 2003, 01:52 PM   #28
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Default Re: "Fat Elvis" Period

Don't let it get you down, AppleScruff. John wouldn't want that. Even though he did get way too thin, I believe that had he lived, John would have recognized the problem and corrected it. John went through a lot of phases in his life, jumping from one to another. I really think he would eventually have said "the hell with it" and gone back to his old eating habits.
Think also about the serenity his eyes reflected during those last years. His spirit had found peace, and he was happy with his life. He had gone back to work, and the world once again was his oyster. No matter what happened, he always ended up landing on his feet, even if he did sometimes go in the wrong direction for a while.
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Old Jan 14, 2003, 11:06 PM   #29
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Default Re: "Fat Elvis" Period

Refusing to eat to force Yoko to do what he wanted does sound like something John would be capable of. He was very manipulative, make no mistake about that, but he usually did it in a much more charming way. I would imagine, and I am not saying this is so, it's just a guess based on what I DO know, that John would use his eating as a weapon once he knew he could get to Yoko that way. After all, he would have complete control over what he ate or refused to eat, as it were. I have to believe that he had a food stash somewhere to get into when she wasn't looking, though. One thing is for sure, John and food had a real love/hate relationship going on. He loved to eat, but he hated what it did to him ( or, to be more accurate, what he THOUGHT it did to him)physically. With that conflict going on in his head, he really suffered when he gave in and binged out. It made him feel like he was weak, but what he really was, was too damn hard on himself. His own worse critic, as Susan so correctly said. She hit the nail right on the head.
I cooked for him when he came over, and whether it was a nice hot breakfast or just some cookies or something, he was always excited by favorite foods and then a little upset with himself afterwards for what he saw as overindulging. Fortunately, I was always able to help him laugh about it in the rnd, but if there was no one around to do that, I am sure he would have made himself feel pretty damn badly.

[size="1"][ Jan 14, 2003, 12:08 PM: Message Edited By: angelgodiva ][/size]
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Old Jan 14, 2003, 11:55 PM   #30
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Default Re: "Fat Elvis" Period

Wow. This thread is some really heavy stuff. [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

I had no idea that John had any issues with his weight. I always thought he was a very skinny man, and I always figured he didn't look as great when he was older as he did when he was a Beatle, but I didn't know he actually could have been anorexic or bulimic, or manipulative towards Yoko with food. I figured he was just very strict with his macrobiotic diet. This is complete news to me.

Its kind of worrying to read, though. Now that you kind of make comparisons with those pictures, he DOES look sick. And look at his fingers. That's very, very unattractive, particularly for John. Ohhh...that's so sad to me. [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img] Now I feel bad for his health, even if he didn't die from any health problems.

I thought anorexia was more attributed to male gymnasts or figure skaters. Who would think that one of the hottest rock stars of all time, who had women throwing themselves at him, could have issues like that about himself. That is WAY,WAY sensitive. Anyway, anorexia is a serious disease. Poor John.
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Old Jan 15, 2003, 05:57 AM   #31
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Default Re: "Fat Elvis" Period

Quote:
Originally Posted By angelgodiva:

Think also about the serenity his eyes reflected during those last years. His spirit had found peace, and he was happy with his life. He had gone back to work, and the world once again was his oyster. No matter what happened, he always ended up landing on his feet, even if he did sometimes go in the wrong direction for a while.
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">I agree! John may have looked really sick and gaunt-like, but he DID seem so rejuvenated and happy about his life and his music. I think that's probably the way I will remember that time period in his life. Personally, I think he would have always been like that about his weight- really obsessive and nuts over gaining even a little itty bitty pound, but that's his business. The music was always beautiful, and the fact that he made it for all of us is what I am grateful for in the first place.

Everything else is either an added bonus, or miscellaneous facts that don't really pertain to what brings me so much joy about John: his voice. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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Old Jan 15, 2003, 08:04 AM   #32
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Default Re: "Fat Elvis" Period

I would have to agree with Fly on this one, you just have to focus on the fact that even though he looked so frail, it was probably one of the happiest times of his life when it came to himself and music. I personally don't like the way he looks in that picture but if he was happy then, my opinion means squat.
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Old Jan 15, 2003, 08:21 AM   #33
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I dunno. I'm not seeing what you guys are seeing. If anything, he looks tired. Perhaps even sick. Or even annoyed. Maybe this is my simplistic view and I did search for signs of contentment here, but I just don't see it.
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Old Jan 15, 2003, 08:27 AM   #34
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Default Re: "Fat Elvis" Period

I just can't take that picture... I always felt that John was incapable of taking a really bad picture, but I was proven wrong. He looks so worn down in it, granted NOT everyone has a good day. He could have been pissed off to all hell when he took this, but he doesn't look healthy or in fair spirits to say the least in this picture at least...IMO

I stand by what I first said, but I just don't like this picture sad to say...
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Old Jan 15, 2003, 09:09 AM   #35
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Default Re: "Fat Elvis" Period

No, I respect both Angel and Fly's comments here, and overall I agree with their attitudes...but I have to agree with Magill here. I think John looks terrible in that picture. I can't lie. That's a horrible picture. It scared me at first. There were all those lovely, beautiful pictures of John and then that one creeps up. I don't mean that in a disrespectful manner in any way, but its just what I thought. His fingers are rather skeletal-looking too.

Maybe he was sick. You never know. He looks so pale and tired and haggard. And his shoulders are so tiny. Now that I read all this stuff about his self-image, I am starting to believe what all of you are saying as definite truth here. I still feel so sad for him. [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

I was anorexic when I was younger. Kind of sad too, because I was never fat to begin with (but that isn't what I thought). But I know how serious it is. You just can't see yourself the way other people do. And this one picture of John isn't even the worse I have seen of him during that time, unfortunately.

[size="1"][ Jan 15, 2003, 10:57 AM: Message Edited By: Apple Scruff ][/size]
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Old Jan 15, 2003, 10:08 AM   #36
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Default Re: "Fat Elvis" Period

I agree that this picture is horrible, but we don't know how tired he might have been, or if he was feeling "off" that day, or what.
Yes, I can say for a fact that this beautiful man had serious weight issues; he was obsessive about it. And I think he became far too thin in his last years, but I also maintain that he was really happy during that time, or as happy as a man with these issues could ever possibly be, I should say.
Look at his face in the Milk and Honey photo shoot, and in all of the photos taken during those last couple of years. His eyes in almost all of these photos do radiate true peace and much happiness. I know those eyes, I have looked into them from inches away, and I know the difference between when he is smiling for the camera and when he really means it. I am sure that many of you who love him can see the difference too. Issues aside, the man was happy in his heart; it is clear to see in those warm, beautiful eyes. Believe me, if I had ever gotten the slightest idea that he wasn't truly happy in those final years, I would have gone to see him no matter who didn't like it, because he was absolutely the love of my life, even though he did not feel the same way about me. Every picture of him that I saw, I would scan for signs of unhappiness, because his feelings meant more to me than anything in this world from the night we meant right up until the night he died. I was seeking to reassure myself that he had truly found happiness, and I am telling you that he really did. With that in mind, I urge you not to be sad for him as far as his life was concerned. Be sad that he didn't get to go on to make the beautiful music he held within himself that we will never hear, and be sad that he never got the chance to become closer to Julian and see Sean grow up, but for God's sake, don't add to it being sad because you think he might have been unhappy in his final years. I can assure you that according to those eyes, which could never lie, he was happy and at peace. Now I have to stop, because I really can't see for the tears.
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Old Jan 15, 2003, 10:15 AM   #37
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Hopefully this will not come out wrong...
I see what you mean, I guess its just hard seeing him like that. But thanks for giving us (well I know, I got something) a different take on it.
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Old Jan 15, 2003, 10:29 AM   #38
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Angel, I didn't mean to infer that John was unhappy. I have no reason to doubt that he was. Double Fantasy is a testament to that. He just looked sick (unhealthy)..or really tired in this picture, as well as a couple of others I've seen taken in that era. If he did have an eating disorder or if he was using drugs, as its been rumored, then that does really sadden me deep in the crevices of my soul. I adore John. And to think if he was doing any of those things makes, me want to cry. [img]graemlins/cry2.gif[/img]
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Old Jan 15, 2003, 10:56 AM   #39
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Default Re: "Fat Elvis" Period

Oh, it's okay, Magill. I just get overemotional about him sometimes. It always worried me whether or not he was still happy once he was out of my life and gone, and I really would always search his eyes in every picture I saw for any signs of sadness. I never did find any, so I do believe with all of my heart that he had found his bliss.
The reason for the crying wasn't anything any of you said, it was just old feelings coming back from remembering what it felt like to be really close to him.
His eating disorder was real, but it wasn't enough to drown out his joy.
As far as drugs are concerned, he had quite a problem and was fond of snorting both cocaine and heroin, it's true, but he gave all that up, everything but cigarettes. He said so in one of his final interviews, and his autopsy report stated that he was entirely clean.

[size="1"][ Jan 15, 2003, 12:00 PM: Message Edited By: angelgodiva ][/size]
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Old Jan 15, 2003, 12:58 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted By HMVNipper:
John was not using drugs at the time of his death. The autopsy stated that he was completely clean. That is fact.
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Thanks for clearing that up Susan. Makes me feel better knowing that.
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