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Old Mar 05, 2004, 09:52 AM   #1
Mysterious
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Default Lennon book questions

I had started reading Lennon by Ray Coleman and I have some questions about a few text parts that I don't really understand. I'm not completely finished with the book yet (I'm in between the chapter called Drugs) so I may have more questions
(I'll put the part I don't understand in bold letters so you will know what I'm talking about; also from which Chapter)

Marriage
John's instinctive decision to 'do the right thing' and marry a girl who was pregnant in 1962 was very much a reflection of the times. They have been having an affair, but nobody knew and the first time John's Aunt Mimi knew that they had slept together was when he went home that night and said, "Cyn's pregnant".

Didn't Paul, George, Pete, etc (with the exception of Mimi) knew that John and Cynthia slept together? Why does it say "Nobody knew"?

Marriage
One thing worried John in the maternity ward when he and Cynthia discussed it: "Hey," he said, "someone said Julian sounds a bit poofy." But they laughed it away and decided that the closeness to his mother was what really mattered.

Drugs
Despite his absence from home, Lennon enjoyed the fact that he was a father. The tears of joy that welled up in him when he first visited Cynthia in hospital and held his son for the first time stayed during the boy's years as a toddler.

Thank you very much...it sucks being 17!
Sam
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Old Mar 05, 2004, 10:31 AM   #2
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Default Re: Lennon book questions

Quote:
Originally Posted By Mysterious:
I had started reading Lennon by Ray Coleman and I have some questions about a few text parts that I don't really understand. I'm not completely finished with the book yet (I'm in between the chapter called Drugs) so I may have more questions
(I'll put the part I don't understand in bold letters so you will know what I'm talking about; also from which Chapter)

Marriage
John's instinctive decision to 'do the right thing' and marry a girl who was pregnant in 1962 was very much a reflection of the times. They have been having an affair, but nobody knew and the first time John's Aunt Mimi knew that they had slept together was when he went home that night and said, "Cyn's pregnant".

Didn't Paul, George, Pete, etc (with the exception of Mimi) knew that John and Cynthia slept together? Why does it say "Nobody knew"?

Marriage
One thing worried John in the maternity ward when he and Cynthia discussed it: "Hey," he said, "someone said Julian sounds a bit poofy." But they laughed it away and decided that the closeness to his mother was what really mattered.

Drugs
Despite his absence from home, Lennon enjoyed the fact that he was a father. The tears of joy that welled up in him when he first visited Cynthia in hospital and held his son for the first time stayed during the boy's years as a toddler.

Thank you very much...it sucks being 17!
Sam
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">1) I think you may be right, but I don't think it was supposed to be common knowledge. And by "nobody" I think perhaps he means Mimi and Cyn's mother. Though it is possible that NO ONE did know...back in the day, you didn't broadcast that you were sleeping with your boyfriend/girlfriend. It particularly stigmatized the girl, who would then be known as a tramp!

2) That is about the discussion of the name "Julian." Julian's full name is John Charles Julian Lennon, after John, Cyn's father and Julia. But they called him Julian, and John was afraid it was a rather "effeminate" name, or could be construed as such.

3) This is about how John clearly did love Julian -- and at least when he was little, he was able to hold onto the memory of the first time he held his son in his arms. I can relate -- until you have children of your own, you can never realize how much you can love another person. And so, it seems to me, that memory stayed with John even during Julian's toddlerhood, during which he was forced to spend a lot of time away from home because the Beatles were touring.

Hope this helps. That's my take, anyway! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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Old Mar 05, 2004, 10:46 PM   #3
EnchantingLennon
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Default Re: Lennon book questions

I think the 'nobody' referred to Aunt Mimi and Lilian (Cyn's mother). I mean, why would you want to tell your aunt/mother or some elderly adult relative that you are having sex, especially outside of marriage? That would be completely embarrassing! However I agree with you about Paul, George, Pete, and Stu knowing about. John and Cynthia used to go over to Stu's apt. to spend time [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] together; the boys shared a room in Hamburg and were in Pete Best's book, George and Pete were instructed to look the other way while Cyn and Dot Rhone were in the room; also Dot and Paul lived next door to Cyn and John (John said in the 1962 letter that he didn't like Dot living next door to her because 'imagine having her there all the time when we were in bed- and imagine Paul coming call the time'. Anyway, I would think the 'nobody' is direct reference of Mimi and Lillian.

I guess John wasn't too sure about the name Julian. If Julian was a girl, then there wouldn't have been no problems with Julia (which I think they would've named Julian if he was a girl anyway). But as the thing says, they both laughed it away; the memory of John's mother was more important.

As for John's memory of first holding Julian, well I'm with Susan on this one (well, I am with her with all of them but wanted to give my two cents). John was away from Julian a lot and he took the most important memory of first holding, first looking of his son with him while on tour. John obiviously missed Julian and used that memory to remember him.

Interesting topic [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
Jeannette
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Old Mar 10, 2004, 04:47 AM   #4
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Default Re: Lennon book questions

I really have got to get this book, dang it! I feel i'm missing out or something....
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Old Mar 18, 2004, 09:17 PM   #5
Mysterious
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Default Re: Lennon book questions

Thank you very much HMV and Enchanting. And Lennon-- get the book! I got the book in a little bookstore not too far from my house. You could find it anywhere- even the library.

Another question, this time from the 1962 letter that John wrote to Cynthia. What's a throbber? (At least that's what it looked like it said in John's handwritting) He also said something else too before that, chores, cherries, I can't tell.
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Old Mar 19, 2004, 04:19 AM   #6
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Default Re: Lennon book questions

Ooh boy...a "throbber" is an erection. Clearly he was missing her very much! [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
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Old Mar 19, 2004, 07:12 AM   #7
Norwegian_Wood
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Default Re: Lennon book questions

If you were having trouble making out John's handwriting, here is a typed up version of those letters:
http://www.bagism.com/library/john-to-cynthia.html

If I'm recalling the right thing, I think at the beginning of that letter, there are some words blacked out (by Cynthia I guess). I always wondered if it was something of the same nature she wasn't comfortable with people seeing?
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Old Mar 19, 2004, 01:19 PM   #8
EnchantingLennon
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Default Re: Lennon book questions

Quote:
Originally Posted By Norwegian_Wood:
If I'm recalling the right thing, I think at the beginning of that letter, there are some words blacked out (by Cynthia I guess). I always wondered if it was something of the same nature she wasn't comfortable with people seeing?
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Yeah I noticed that too. It was nice for Cynthia to let us read some of John's letters to her, but still- what is under there? I'm very curious now...lol but I've always made up something like
...I'm missing you like mad whereever you my little your own dirty words here I wonder why...and so on...

I do think it involves with sex. In the letters, John mentions about Dot may be around all the time while they are in bed, the "throbber" bit, and things like that.
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