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Old Oct 05, 2015, 07:28 PM   #1
Apple Scruff
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Thumbs down Oh what a surprise!

A horrible, nasty new book on John. I want to discuss this soooo bad! but where is everyone?

Saw this article and immediately thought how sad it is that people have to resort to fabrication and exaggerated stories for profit. John wasn't a saint or a monster, just a man. And he was, in SO many ways, a truly good man who tried his best in this world. WHY has the popular thing re: John become bashing him so much these days?

Is it the direction our culture is going in to try and find imperfections in someone or something that brought so much happiness (look at some recent articles on Steve Jobs for example).
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Old Oct 06, 2015, 12:30 PM   #2
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Well, I'm here but where have you been, Scruffie?

Okay, I go first. Regarding this book, what can I say? I haven't read it myself but from the article one can see a trend, of course. He gives it a negative spin but it's not as if the incidents mentioned are make-believe, is it? I don't buy the 'too lazy to work at anything' or he wouldn't have put in all those grueling years working the club circuit. However, John did have a selfish streak and he did some rather nasty things. He was a flawed human, not a saint.

As to the bashing, well, part of it is probably fired by a wish to give a more nuanced picture of the person. Unfortunately, that sometimes lead to an exaggeration in the other direction. Usually as time progresses a more balanced picture emerges.
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Old Oct 08, 2015, 07:20 AM   #3
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I think this guy and Geoffrey "Hatchet Man" Giuliano collaborated on this one.
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Old Oct 08, 2015, 07:19 PM   #4
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Oh Scruffie.... don't let 'em bring you down! Some idiot wanting to make some money by pandering to the haters. I bet John once punked this guy's dad or something and he has a personal vendetta.

This whole "John was not a saint" thing is getting very tiresome. What rock star IS a saint? And what's so great about saints anyway? You should google what Christopher Hitchens had to say about Mother Teresa and you'd discover that she was no saint either. And her transgressions were way worse than anything John has ever been accused of.
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Old Oct 09, 2015, 09:42 AM   #5
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This whole "John was not a saint" thing is getting very tiresome. What rock star IS a saint? And what's so great about saints anyway?
I will come in later to reply to everyone, but Maia is 100% on point here. WHY are we reusing this expression with John when any other rock star (or high profile and celebrated individual). has done as much, if not more, "not-so-great" things in their life? I'm guilty of it too, because I get so defensive of John. I feel people have taken these historical rewrites about him as a person and are now just using them as a casual reference like:

"John Lennon was a wife-beating ****"

"John Lennon was a horrible man and a bad father."

As I get closer and closer to 40, I realize how dang young I still am! I'm still learning. John was way younger when some of these things (I said "some" because the rest are made up lets be real) people are judging him about happened.

Let's move away from "he wasn't a saint" and love and respect him for the man he was. A beautiful and amazing man who deeply impacted a generation- and many to follow.
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Old Oct 09, 2015, 01:19 PM   #6
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What I'm fed up with is how so many confuse the artist with their work! And this isn't just John facing it either; it's pretty much all artists face, whether they are lyricists or poets or authors or painters or what have you. Like there's no such thing as imagination?

Like John couldn't write Working Class Hero because his family was lower middle class? Who said it was about him? He got tons of friends that were from blue collar families. I bet he could see how hard they were working to get ends meet. Or about Imagine. (This is where the saint bit comes in, Scruffie) He wrote saying suppose we could all live like that. He didn't say he would lead the way. Or work for peace. He personally didn't usher in world peace. So? At least the man tried!

Makes me so tired sometimes.
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Old Oct 09, 2015, 04:49 PM   #7
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Well said, Hib and Scruff. I couldn't agree with you more.

That SOS (same old stuff) makes me tired too.
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Old Oct 10, 2015, 07:48 PM   #8
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I still stand by the quote in my signature. I've been trolling youtube commenters who post this trash on any video of John available.
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Old Oct 11, 2015, 05:01 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Apple Scruff View Post
A horrible, nasty new book on John. I want to discuss this soooo bad! but where is everyone?

Saw this article and immediately thought how sad it is that people have to resort to fabrication and exaggerated stories for profit. John wasn't a saint or a monster, just a man. And he was, in SO many ways, a truly good man who tried his best in this world. WHY has the popular thing re: John become bashing him so much these days?
Hi Scruffie
To be honest, I wasn't that angry when I read the article, as I read that kind of bullsh**about hundred times before; there is so lack of "news" in it and so full of "clichés". I guess, I just got immunized against it over the years, so I just smile about. Actually, I had a big laugh, especially concerning the fur cuts in a freezen room

Still, it's sad when young people or new fans of John read such articles. Like most of us, I get VERY tired of reading the same sentences again and again, like "John wasn't a saint", just because his most famous song is about peace. Maybe Sean should react harder against such articles, but I guess it's just not worth to bother about, don't you think so ?

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Old Oct 11, 2015, 09:14 AM   #10
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Hi Scruffie
To be honest, I wasn't that angry when I read the article, as I read that kind of bullsh**about hundred times before; there is so lack of "news" in it and so full of "clichés".
You nicked the nick there, Snoopy. These authors, whom live on writing celebrity biographies, have a hard time finding a new angle so they can sell the umpth rehash of the man's life.

Personally I think John would be thrilled to know that three decades after his passing he's still relevant enough to cause people to bash him.
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Old Oct 11, 2015, 09:24 AM   #11
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Default Good point, hib.

Wouldn't it have given him a grand old laugh, then?
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Old Oct 11, 2015, 10:13 AM   #12
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You nicked the nick there, Snoopy. These authors, whom live on writing celebrity biographies, have a hard time finding a new angle so they can sell the umpth rehash of the man's life.

Personally I think John would be thrilled to know that three decades after his passing he's still relevant enough to cause people to bash him.
Indeed, John would have a big laugh too reading this article

It reminds me about the bashing about Elvis after his death. It was similar then; they rolled up the same crap again and again. I'm just surprised that there was not so much bashing about Michael Jackson. But I guess it's because he was bashed on already during his living days, the poor boy...

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