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constance Sep 11, 2011 10:50 AM

George has lots of sex with lots of women vs. George was a very spiritual man who loved gardening in his later years...which do you think is going to make headlines? In the world we live in, it will always be about sex. So what...as long as George is in the news and people will be drawn to the film. Maybe many people who did not follow George's life and career will become interested from the salacious promo stories, and fall in love with George once they learn more about him. That is fine with me.

beatlebangs1964 Sep 11, 2011 11:25 AM

I am not arrogant and never was. People have made that self same statement about you, FPSHOT, but I never bought it. Again, I say each person has their own way of expressing their thoughts and it is unfortunate whenever anyone is misconstrued.

Now, I'd rather smell a dead duck than apologize which is one thing I really hate to do. I actually did offer one if you go back and read my previous post. People did rush to your defense. Well and good.

My statement about cultural perspectives had nothing to do with the word slut. My statement was meant as a blanket statement that each one of us comes from a different background and that each person interprets things in their individual way. Without someone clarifying, that can cause for misunderstandings. The last thing I want is for people to come down hard on anyone and unfortunately that does happen sometimes.

FPSHOT, that is what I mean about interpretation. I am not making excuses; I honestly thought I was extending an olive branch by giving everyone the benefit of the doubt. I do know that people come from different backgrounds and bring different cultural perspectives to the table.

Colonel Angus Sep 11, 2011 12:32 PM

Why is John considered the womanizer of the Beatles? He was married his entire adult life. I've heard the stories about George and the swapping and the wild behavior. But no women are coming forward and screaming from the mountain tops about their "night w John". In fact, it was always quite weird. In all those videos of the Beatles touring, they all were sleeping in suites w four four beds in the same room. Like they were being chaperoned and watched.

larainefan Sep 11, 2011 12:52 PM

I've thought long and hard how to respond to this. When I said George was a free spirit, I meant it. I think he had so much love---spiritually, emotionally, mentally, that sometimes that was bound to spread carnally outside of any acknowledged boundaries. I love George, but I think he would have been hard to hold onto. Not only because of the promiscuity, but also because he was in such a rush to leave this world and go onto the next. To me, that would leave a very lonesome feeling in the partner. Thankfully, Olivia shared George's views on those matters though.

The word 'slut' is neither bad or good, male or female, it is what it is---a descriptive term meaning one who indulges in a lot of sex.

I find it very telling and sad George had so little regard for himself, and the act of sex, that he allowed himself to be passed around so freely. Sex became as mundane as brushing one's teeth. Olivia was expected to wait patiently by, how would he have liked it if she'd behaved in like manner? It is astonishing he would finally have what he wanted in life, a loving wife and son, and then be subconsciously willing to throw it all away. He's fortunate Olivia was strong and forgiving, bound to hold onto the marriage regardless of the cost to her emotionally. That she chose to stay with him says a lot about George, too, that he had sterling superior qualities worth staying around for. Ringo, too, wanted to hold onto George as a best friend even after the Maureen fiasco, and that also shows just how deeply George was loved.

You can look into George's eyes and tell he was a kind and gentle and deep person, his smile shows he must have been one of the sweetest persons ever. I'm looking forward to the DVD to find out how George rationalized and justified all the sides to his character. It is a shame that Olivia chose to be open and candid and honest with that one statement, and the media ran away with it. I'm so jealous of the reviewers who have been able to see this film already, and after 3 1/2 hours, that's all they learned, all that resonated? And it's not as if it's a new fact, anyway, we all knew George had many women through his life.

I'm equally looking forward to Olivia's book, which will share George's letters and journals. If we can read his words, see how he actually felt about all that was happening around him, maybe it will be like stepping into his mind, and understanding him better.

I do make allowances for George, even having said all the above. I have no doubt it was hard for him to be monogamous, after all he'd experienced. I think when he was a young teen, John and Paul were terrible influences, the worst people he could have emulated in how to treat women. I think he was sent too young to Hamburg, had so much vice thrown at him which he was not yet emotionally mature enough to handle. I do think Beatlemania psychologically traumatized him. The true George is when I read about him from birth to near age 20, after that the fame, money, power, and drugs take hold. I think the rest of his life, and the spirituality, was George trying to find his way back to reconnect to that true self---a sweet, loving, considerate boy who looked out for his family, for animals, for disadvantaged souls, a solitary boy who loved to take off on his own for long walks along the river to commune with nature.

Sidenote: I read the Beatles UK Tours 1963-1966, at the end the interviewer asked all who had encountered the Beatles in those early days, both fans and fellow performers, if they had a favorite Beatle, they unanimously said George. George was (paraphrasing, I don't have the book right at hand just now) "kind" "funny" "such a gentle soul" "such a lovely lad" "a very spiritual person". That to me is the real George, the one people responded to, and I'm interested in the DVD and book to see how George was able to manage and reconcile all his varied roles.

FPSHOT Sep 11, 2011 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maia 66 (Post 1078612)
I'm American and I 100% supported your comment about George... and I'm the "someone" who called the Dutch FPSHOT "prudish"... So, yeah LET'S TALK ABOUT SEX!

It'sprobably autumn time and time for you girlies to have a George sex season, fine with me.

About me being called prudish, I have had some great laughs about that today with some people I met, no one who knows me will ever call me prudish so it is big laughs around here about those stupid remarks.

p.s. to the moderator here - I am being insulted by various people here in various posts and you do nothing about it, not that I care but the level of this forum is below normal.

FPSHOT Sep 11, 2011 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beatlebangs1964 (Post 1078628)
FPSHOT, that is what I mean about interpretation. I am not making excuses; I honestly thought I was extending an olive branch by giving everyone the benefit of the doubt. I do know that people come from different backgrounds and bring different cultural perspectives to the table.

I do not expect any excuse from you, your opinion is quit clear and is your own.

Different backgrounds have nothing to do with the words about George which you back up, your neigbour will no doubt have other feelings about things than you do so that is so pointless and pitifull to bring forward and even insulting. It's a matter of respect. That is lost here by some of who I thought they cared about George.

Hari's Chick Sep 11, 2011 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPSHOT (Post 1078631)
p.s. to the moderator here - I am being insulted by various people here in various posts and you do nothing about it, not that I care but the level of this forum is below normal.

FP, I think most people are responding to you because they respect you and your opinion. If they thought you were bad things, then no one would respond to you.

Don't you feel people have given your concerns a lot of thought?

I know you love George, and I know your heart is well intentioned here. I know you can be so much fun, too, lighthearted and funny. I know all this about you.

I guess when you post this criticism, it can appear like you are critical of people who really ALSO love George, as Lucy pointed out. It's just current news. So there really is no harm in discussing current news. There may be things in the documentary which we didn't know, and maybe the press will have a field day with it all. Then what should we do?

There is no *one way* to 'best' love George. We can be like a prism here, all shining George's love from different angles. :smile1: It will make the love richer, since it's many sided.

Everyone play nice now and let's love one another like Georgie says.

Hari's Chick Sep 11, 2011 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larainefan (Post 1078630)
I've thought long and hard how to respond to this. When I said George was a free spirit, I meant it.

larainefan, your insights are really interesting to read. Thanks so much for sharing those thoughts. I'll be thinking about them today and rolling them over in my mind.

I'm not given to believe the tabloids about George being promiscuous in his years with Olivia. I know of situation/s he could have been and was not, through the grapevine. As I read Olivia's words, they had a hiccup, and then it resolved. She didn't say he was a serial polyamour, or whatever it's called.

Also...... I know someone who stayed with George and Olivia at Friar Park.... and he was really cool and VERY insightful and smart. He said their marriage was one everyone should aspire to. He said they spoke lovingly to one another, and there was a spiritual and calm presence all around them. So, I believe his first hand account. I haven't read anything to change my opinion there.

No matter what the film holds, I think we'll all love George even more after seeing it.

larainefan Sep 11, 2011 01:53 PM

Thanks, Hari's Chick, that's a relief to know. I know the other women happened, but if tabloids are exaggerating and blowing everything out of all proportion, then it means George was indeed wiser as he aged and matured. I'd love to believe those times he cheated on Olivia were rare, and that he did appreciate her and the family life she created for him. I think she was exactly what he needed in life, someone who brought him comfort and stability.

Georgie Girl Sep 11, 2011 02:45 PM

I agree with all you said, Larainefan. :)

beatlebangs1964 Sep 11, 2011 03:48 PM

Laraine, I found your input interesting and you offer a perspective that many have not considered. That is the hallmark of good discourse.

FPSHOT, I even said in my first post that you have a long history of good input here. Please keep that in mind. I DO care about George; I did not use the term which you found so upsetting. I never once said I supported that claim. It is not for you to decide who cares about George and to what degree. In truth, you really don't know that. Just as others don't have the right to make the same claim about you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rellevart
Maybe everybody just has different views of what "respect" means. I respect George as a great guitarist, a great songwriter and an interesting person. Was he perfect? Nope. As are none of us either. I don't think acknowledging that somebody's not perfect means that you don't respect them. Are some people (men as well as women, the "girlie" comment was unneccesary and inaccurate) going to go the gossippy route? Yeah, probably. Is insulting them going to make anything better? No, not really.

Two points here....the first part of this sentence may be true, but the second part isn't and nobody ever said it was. That part of it was written and put into people's minds by...well...you.

The other point is I don't think anybody would "label" George as these things. Most people would , if they had to label him at all, label him as a musician, a gardener, a person searching for meaning in his life...those other things may have been part of his life too, but nobody's labeling him that way....

Well said Rell.

Hari's Chick Sep 12, 2011 11:48 PM

Okay, if everyone can play nice and not name call... we'll reopen this thread. It had some interesting perspectives. But if peeps start name calling... down it goes.

Play nice now...


beatlelover45223 Sep 13, 2011 12:02 AM

Just reopening this topic does show how much George is loved!

FPSHOT Sep 13, 2011 12:07 AM

One can also wonder why it ever was closed.

I hope George gets some more respect than being called a womanizer and slut because of a few things he did in his Patty period. What Olivia says is very harmless in my view, many men can talk and maybe flirt a bit with women in an innocent and funny way but that does not make them how George is described by various people here and nothing Olivia said goes in that direction.

Georgie Girl Sep 13, 2011 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPSHOT (Post 1078792)
One can also wonder why it ever was closed.

I hope George gets some more respect than being called a womanizer and slut because of a few things he did in his Patty period. What Olivia says is very harmless in my view, many men can talk and maybe flirt a bit with women in an innocent and funny way but that does not make them how George is described by various people here and nothing Olivia said goes in that direction.

There's a fine line between flirting and cheating. It's possible that George hadn't changed habits entirely when he became involved with Olivia, and if anything DID happen, it was probably during their early years together. There was a bit of partying going on during the '74 tour, maybe not the healthiest atmosphere for a new relationship. And if it did happen, I'm sure Olivia set him straight on a thing or three.

Maybe she had a rolling pin, like Linda McCartney. :laugh5:

sourmilkpinky Sep 13, 2011 04:53 AM

The following opinion is completely separate from George/Olivia/Patti topic but I just want to add that not all women have the same views/reactions to how their men react/interact with other women and I for one would never judge a couples relationship as I am not in their heads/hearts.

FPSHOT Sep 13, 2011 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Georgie Girl (Post 1078804)
There was a bit of partying going on during the '74 tour, maybe not the healthiest atmosphere for a new relationship. And if it did happen, I'm sure Olivia set him straight on a thing or three.

Olivia was with George most of the 74 tour, so this speculation seems most unlikely apart from the group with Ravi and all the Indian musicians does not look to me as a group to be womanizing. Ravi described a lot about the tour in Raga Mala and certainly not the kind of partying which is suggested here. Some of the partying was like when they had great fun to see the Indian musicians eat pizza and the Western ones were eating Indian food.

Georgie Girl Sep 13, 2011 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPSHOT (Post 1078807)
Olivia was with George most of the 74 tour, so this speculation seems most unlikely apart from the group with Ravi and all the Indian musicians does not look to me as a group to be womanizing. Ravi described a lot about the tour in Raga Mala and certainly not the kind of partying which is suggested here. Some of the partying was like when they had great fun to see the Indian musicians eat pizza and the Western ones were eating Indian food.

Ravi produced a child from an affair, Norah Jones. At an age when he was old enough to know better. :wink2:

FPSHOT Sep 13, 2011 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Georgie Girl (Post 1078811)
Ravi produced a child from an affair, Norah Jones. At an age when he was old enough to know better. :wink2:

Not really an affair but ok I give you that one, George didn't though :teeth1:

When are you old enough to know better, is there a timetable for that? :wave1::wave1: please give me the link if there is one so I can learn.

FPSHOT Sep 13, 2011 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Georgie Girl (Post 1078811)
Ravi produced a child from an affair, Norah Jones.

This is really music talk, "produced by Ravi Shankar" :laugh5::laugh5:

Georgie Girl Sep 13, 2011 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPSHOT (Post 1078812)
Not really an affair but ok I give you that one, George didn't though :teeth1:

When are you old enough to know better, is there a timetable for that? :wave1::wave1: please give me the link if there is one so I can learn.

I've got it around here somewhere. :look:

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPSHOT (Post 1078813)
This is really music talk, "produced by Ravi Shankar" :laugh5::laugh5:

:laugh5:

misfittoy Sep 14, 2011 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beatlelover45223 (Post 1078788)
Just reopening this topic does show how much George is loved!

I thought it was more about the loving he did. (Runs and hides)

constance Sep 14, 2011 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by misfittoy (Post 1078983)
I thought it was more about the loving he did. (Runs and hides)

( lol )

Jeanvolt Sep 16, 2011 06:26 AM

Hello,

I just signed up to ask if you can support the 'being slut' allegations about George with a reliable source?

Thank you.

FPSHOT Sep 16, 2011 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeanvolt (Post 1079203)
Hello,

I just signed up to ask if you can support the 'being slut' allegations about George with a reliable source?

Thank you.

Welcome to you.

There is no reliable source, just in the imagination of some people here.

Enjoy the less sadfull topics.

Jeanvolt Sep 16, 2011 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPSHOT (Post 1079208)
Welcome to you.

There is no reliable source, just in the imagination of some people here.

Enjoy the less sadfull topics.

Thank you, FPSHOT.

I was totally shocked by what I read here and George being referred to as another typical rock star, so I'm really interested to know what those allegations are based on.

What I know about George is that he got married at the age of about 23 while he could've enjoyed a life of extramarital affairs having those groupies around all the time if he'd been that kind of guy, and what alienated Pattie was his "increasing religious explorations, extreme work ethic, and personality changes"...

Still, I'm not trying to create an image of a perfect, impeccable George, sure he was a human, but what I'm trying to say is that he wasn't into another typical rock star life.

Hari's Chick Sep 16, 2011 09:23 AM

What if the term Dark Horse is substituted for the word slut?

There was an interview from George which I can paraphrase roughly but don't have it handy, not transcribed.

In it he was speaking of his record company, Dark Horse records. And George says [paraphrased]..."There's a term, Dark Horse, which in England has a bit of a different meaning than in America. [In America it means the unlikely horse to win a race which pulls ahead and wins.... I forget if George explained that...] In England, you hear people saying [assumes Monty Python women's voice] 'Mr Penguin's knocking round with Mrs Johnson...' 'Oh, he's a dark horse... who'd have ever thought?' So I thought, for the label, okay, I'll open up, I'm a Dark Horse... [giggles].... who'd 've ever thought?"

That should be nearly word for word...

So, George called himself a Dark Horse... and this was an interview from 1976, I think it was.

Jeanvolt Sep 16, 2011 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hari's Chick (Post 1079219)
What if the term Dark Horse is substituted for the word slut?

There was an interview from George which I can paraphrase roughly but don't have it handy, not transcribed.

In it he was speaking of his record company, Dark Horse records. And George says [paraphrased]..."There's a term, Dark Horse, which in England has a bit of a different meaning than in America. [In America it means the unlikely horse to win a race which pulls ahead and wins.... I forget if George explained that...] In England, you hear people saying [assumes Monty Python women's voice] 'Mr Penguin's knocking round with Mrs Johnson...' 'Oh, he's a dark horse... who'd have ever thought?' So I thought, for the label, okay, I'll open up, I'm a Dark Horse... [giggles].... who'd 've ever thought?"

That should be nearly word for word...

So, George called himself a Dark Horse... and this was an interview from 1976, I think it was.

Thank you for the answer, Hari's Chick.

As for the term Dark Horse my dictionary suggests: "a person about whom little is known, especially one with unexpected abilities." which also suits the context there and now I'm starting to realise that George has been indeed a 'Dark Horse' through all these years, remaining so unknown to people that they even call him a slut...

beatlebangs1964 Sep 16, 2011 12:59 PM

Who called him that, the s word?

A dark horse is also the horse that pulls out ahead and wins the race, the horse that is the unexpected winner.

constance Sep 16, 2011 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beatlebangs1964 (Post 1079235)
Who called him that, the s word?

A dark horse is also the horse that pulls out ahead and wins the race, the horse that is the unexpected winner.

That is how I also took the meaning of "Dark Horse" to be-kind of like a hidden gem.

Hari's Chick Sep 16, 2011 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeanvolt (Post 1079224)
Thank you for the answer, Hari's Chick.

As for the term Dark Horse my dictionary suggests: "a person about whom little is known, especially one with unexpected abilities." which also suits the context there and now I'm starting to realise that George has been indeed a 'Dark Horse' through all these years, remaining so unknown to people that they even call him a slut...

You're welcome. :)

Well, isn't the most important definition the one George gave it though?

from page 288 in "I, Me, Mine"...

"Dark Horse is the old story. 'Mr Penguin's poking Mrs Johnson from the co-op.' 'Oh really! Who'd have thought that- he's a bit of a Dark Horse, isn't he?' I didn't know til later the other idea of a dark horse- the one that wins that nobody has put any money on."

I remember in the interview I saw, he was also musing about "Okay... I'll open up... I'm a dark horse... who'd 've ever thought? ... running on a dark race course, cuz that's what it is..."

That part was in there, too.

For the people who think George was a monastic, have they not heard "Simply Shady?" Did they think that was about trees? :laugh5:

Thing is, who cares, I think George would likely laugh at being called a slut. He wasn't all prissy and proper... he was funny. The one who called him a slut was misfittoy, and she is a fan not a hater.

George was giggling about being a dark horse cuz he was mischeivious. He said he was impressed with Roy because he knew all the words to a dirty Python song. It does George a disservice to try to make him into some boring old stodgy moralist.

FPSHOT Sep 16, 2011 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeanvolt (Post 1079224)
Thank you for the answer, Hari's Chick.

As for the term Dark Horse my dictionary suggests: "a person about whom little is known, especially one with unexpected abilities." which also suits the context there and now I'm starting to realise that George has been indeed a 'Dark Horse' through all these years, remaining so unknown to people that they even call him a slut...

The term Dark Horse and slut and womanizer are totally different.

I agree with you that being a dark horse at some time is in his life is okay and was, also because he wrote a song about it which is maybe new to some people who often more care about his hair than his songs and life, but to call him a womaniser and slut is totally based on personal satisfaction and not based on reality.

Hari's Chick Sep 16, 2011 01:43 PM

I think the total disgrace would be to suck all the lighthearted humor from the situation.

Look at the videos from the 33 1/3 album, does George seem worried about maintaining a holy reputation?

One of the coolest things about George is he was no poser. He could be spiritual and also human. He kept it real. That was one of my super super favorite things about him...

Rellevart Sep 16, 2011 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hari's Chick (Post 1079239)
It does George a disservice to try to make him into some boring old stodgy moralist.

Oh wow, HC, I totally agree with you on this point.

FPSHOT Sep 16, 2011 01:49 PM

You know, I love George's humor and I know he would love to hear a part of the conclusions here.

But... what matters is how George is being portraited here by some, as if the only thing he ever was is a wowaniser and a slut, sorry but if you ladies want to laugh about that fine, but is personal satisfaction for the night and a disgrace.

Rellevart Sep 16, 2011 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPSHOT (Post 1079244)
But... what matters is how George is being portraited here by some, as if the only thing he ever was is a wowaniser and a slut

But nobody's saying that, are they? I haven't seen anybody say that's all George was. :confused:

FPSHOT Sep 16, 2011 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rellevart (Post 1079245)
But nobody's saying that, are they? I haven't seen anybody say that's all George was. :confused:

Then maybe spend a few moments on reading what is being posted in all the messy threads which should be merged to make things more clear or just ignore it which is the general view as it seems and which is sad.

FPSHOT Sep 16, 2011 02:31 PM

I believe it is just very sad that people here remember George as a man who had a certain period 40 years ago in stead of remebering his total life.

It's good there are other places and oppurtunities to talk about George with respect and a lot of fun and interest.

Jeanvolt Sep 16, 2011 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hari's Chick (Post 1079239)
For the people who think George was a monastic, have they not heard "Simply Shady?" Did they think that was about trees? :laugh5:

Well, all the words there can't simply be taken literally, they may just as well be metaphors George used to express in a palpable way his train of thought as an artist and a thinker, to simply put the whole concept of the embodiment of the past sins with 'a lady' and 'Sexy Sadie', so that a buddy of lesser mother wit like me could make out what he was trying to say. All said to say we can't really attach such a label to someone only on the grounds of some vague clues/hints that we've piece together. :-)

Quote:

It does George a disservice to try to make him into some boring old stodgy moralist.
First, I have to disagree about the part putting 'moralist' equal to 'boring', well they sure fit together in the motion pictures, but in the real life, to me, it's immorality that's getting boring... Then again, it sure does him a disservice to make him look like a one-dimensional person, but how about using a fairer term like 'funny' instead of the alternative. :-)

Lucy Sep 16, 2011 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPSHOT (Post 1079249)
I believe it is just very sad that people here remember George as a man who had a certain period 40 years ago in stead of remebering his total life, but again, it says a lot about this forum where most things go about his hair and naughty dreams.

It's good there are other places and oppurtunities to talk about George with respect and a lot of fun and interest.

OMG if you are so sad about it FPSHOT, please stop going on about it...if for no other reason but for MY sake because I am so sick of reading about the disrespect and dishonour and horror of it all when actually this is the biggest mountain out of a molehill ever. You have said this so many times on this thread.

A lesson from life that I have recently been reminded of is that you need to surround yourself with people and places and things that make you feel good and that you enjoy and just be done with the rest of it that doesn't make you happy. On that note I would suggest that if this place is so offensive to you, spend some more of your time at these other places where it is clearly more to your liking. I think from what you have written in some of your posts, that was your intention but then I just keep reading the same thing on here over and over. It must be pretty tiring for you. Give yourself a break, man!


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