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-   -   The pointlessness in resentment towards The Capitol Albums (http://www.beatlelinks.net/forums/showthread.php?t=26766)

62hofner May 11, 2006 02:51 PM

The pointlessness in resentment towards The Capitol Albums
 
Before I ever bought a CD player, I played my vinyl LPs. When I listened to my vinyl Beatles LPs they were, of course, Capitol albums - being that I grew up (and still am growing up - LOL!) in The U.S.A. I didn't think much of things like play lists and whether or not I was listening to the "correct" or "real" album(!). The music was the main thing for me... it was d*mn good music.

From time to time, I'd buy an import EP, or something like that... and in these instances I'd notice slight differences in the sound. She's A Woman and I Feel Fine, in particular, were songs that sounded different to me in comparison to my "Beatles '65" album mixes. But, that was cool with me... it was like having a "rarity" or something.

When The Beates catalog came out on CD, of course I bought them all. It was at that time that I first REALLY encountered the issue concerning how different the British albums were to my American versions. I think it was around that time that I first heard, as well, that the CDs were "how The Beatles intended them to be...". Made no difference to me... I played my British CDs without complaint - so long as I was hearing the music. Of course, I would have prefered my more familiar Capitol album play lists on CD. I never really got used to "Drive My Car" kicking off Rubber Soul .... or, "Every Little Thing" not fading out as a nice way to close-out its respective album. To MY ears, things were slightly amiss.

So, of course, when Capitol began releasing the American albums on CD, I was over-joyed. But it wasn't until I joined this forum that I became aware that there were actually people who harbored such resentment and ill-feelings towards these Capitol "anomolies". I was kind'a surprised, to tell you the truth!

I read an article (that is, I started reading an article but stopped) by Martin Lewis on that new site "Beatles Today" where he threw in a couple digs at the Capitol albums - digs that betrayed more than just a mild dislike. I mean, he sounded resentful and bitter! I said to myself, "get over it, pal!" How utterly ridiculous.

For me, it was always the music - whether in mono, or duophonic stereo, or true stereo, or whatever - that made me feel incredible things. As for the order in which they appear and on which album they appear.... who cares!?!?!? I think it's cool that there are differing versions of Beatles albums, actually. Interesting to note that, thanks to Capitol records, The Beatles can claim to have THE holy grail of album covers (The Butcher cover).

If you grew up on the British albums, that's fine - they are your albums. However, if you grew up on the Capitol albums then why should anyone begrudge you? Those albums are completely valid and worth regarding. After all, they were a HUGE part of Beatlemania, and The Beatles owe a lot of their success to those strange rainbow-labeled LPs! By the way... I never once felt jipped by the fact that there are 2-3 less songs on my American albums... I've never felt manipulated or fooled by the evil Capitol Records mix-masters! LOL! :laugh5: Nahhh... I LOVE the American albums. So, why begrudge me or anyone of this? I don't hate the British LPs! They're simply not MY LPs. :nono4:

Bottom line is that it is, at best, pretty silly to slam the Capitol albums as "wrong", or "not real", or somehow "inferior". I know, I know... "they're not how the band intended them....". Well, that doesn't really make a heap of difference in the end, does it? Since the fans are the ones who immortalize the music, I'd say this was all that really mattered/matters. There's a reason why Capitol is releasing the American albums on CD now and why they're selling very well. I suspect it has something to do with how very real the Capitol albums are to, ohhhh.... just "a few million" Beatles fans.

Ok, I'm getting off my tree stump! :churchill:

jtal909 May 11, 2006 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 62hofner

For me, it was always the music - whether in mono, or duophonic stereo, or true stereo, or whatever - that made me feel incredible things. As for the order in which they appear and on which album they appear.... who cares!?!?!? I think it's cool that there are differing versions of Beatles albums, actually. Interesting to note that, thanks to Capitol records, The Beatles can claim to have THE holy grail of album covers (The Butcher cover).

:

My sentiments exactly.
I played the Capitol albums so much as I kid I still hear those song sequences.
And Beatles VI and Something NEw were way cool.

62hofner May 11, 2006 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtal909
My sentiments exactly.
I played the Capitol albums so much as I kid I still hear those song sequences.
And Beatles VI and Something NEw were way cool.

I read one too many slights towards The American albums, and I snapped! :laugh5:

Thing is.... who is to say that the albums I grew up on and, like you said, who's playlists are seered into my brain aren't "real"???

if you don't like what Capitol did, then don't listen to their versions. But, don't say that they are "not real". :nono5:

pattiboyd's slave May 12, 2006 10:49 AM

I'm as tone deaf as they come, I barely notice a mono version as opposed to the stereo version of Beatles songs, unless someone notifies me three days in advance and then I barely hear the difference :cross2: . So I really don't give a rat's behind if it's in friggin mono or el stereo! I grew up on the American versions, I felt gyped when I found out the English versions had more songs, of course I did :scream2: , but that was eons ago so I don't care anymore SEE! :angry1: . But OH-HAPPY-DAY! :angel4: When the CD's were released and I could revel in having 28 songs on one Beatles album. Life was good again! :rolling1:

62hofner May 12, 2006 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pattiboyd's slave
I'm as tone deaf as they come, I barely notice a mono version as opposed to the stereo version of Beatles songs, unless someone notifies me three days in advance and then I barely hear the difference :cross2: . So I really don't give a rat's behind if it's in friggin mono or el stereo! I grew up on the American versions, I felt gyped when I found out the English versions had more songs, of course I did :scream2: , but that was eons ago so I don't care anymore SEE! :angry1: . But OH-HAPPY-DAY! :angel4: When the CD's were released and I could revel in having 28 songs on one Beatles album. Life was good again! :rolling1:

So, then it matters to you... and that's fine. I just don't like when the Capitol versions are dismissed as something less than valid records.
:churchill:

pattiboyd's slave May 12, 2006 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 62hofner
So, then it matters to you... and that's fine. I just don't like when the Capitol versions are dismissed as something less than valid records.
:churchill:

To be perfectly honest, I like the British versions, I'm anal when it comes to having things presented to me the way the artist intended. But I agree with you that the Capitol versions are just as valid and the music is the main thing.
At least we had Peppers, White, Abbey, & Let It presented in it's entirety as The Beatles intended.

62hofner May 12, 2006 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pattiboyd's slave
To be perfectly honest, I like the British versions, I'm anal when it comes to having things presented to me the way the artist intended. But I agree with you that the Capitol versions are just as valid and the music is the main thing.
At least we had Peppers, White, Abbey, & Let It presented in it's entirety as The Beatles intended.

I agree... I can't imagine "Sgt. Peppers" in any other form than what it is. I think the earlier albums were more "alterable" than the ones that came out from 1967 and on. The 1964-1966 American albums sound cohesive and perfectly natural to me.

I think "Magical Mystery Tour" is a great album that was literally created by Capitol. I know the U.K. EP was more representative of the actual film... but, by the same token, The U.S. "Help!" album is more representative of the film than the British version. As I said, I actually like the fact that there are different versions of Beatles albums. The more stuff, the better.

It's funny, because I am just as anal as anyone when it comes down to "how things should be". In my case - as well as many others' - the Capitol releases are "how things should be". The Parlophone CDs required much getting used to when they were released in 1987. It was like having to learn to walk all over again.

AMBOISVERT May 12, 2006 02:18 PM

I don't "resent" the capitol albums either. Like many others here, I was raised on them. But I don't need to own them on CD. And I am perplexed by the contention that 62hofner has sometimes put forward that the capitol versions are somehow more legitimate than the parlophone versions, that the British versions are "wrong." They aren't what we grew up on in the States, true, but that doesn't add up to wrong.

I always glad to see Beatles fans enjoying themselves, and I am very glad that the Capitol albums have made many of you so happy. Personally, I do sometimes miss the "Hey Jude" album, and I have often thought of recreating it using my cd-burner.

Tony

beatlebangs1964 May 12, 2006 02:50 PM

Well said, Ambo and I agree with you 100%. I think the whole idea of a competition is just plain silly, sorry. What is less legitimate than a non-Capitol issue release? It's the same excellent songs. Luckily in today's world, we can create our own music collections. Still, as Ambo said, different does not mean wrong.

Legs May 12, 2006 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 62hofner
I think "Magical Mystery Tour" is a great album that was literally created by Capitol. I know the U.K. EP was more representative of the actual film... but, by the same token, The U.S. "Help!" album is more representative of the film than the British version. As I said, I actually like the fact that there are different versions of Beatles albums. The more stuff, the better.

I think Capitol got it right for once when they released "Magical Mystery Tour" as an album. The fact that the U.K. EP was more representative of the actual film, isn't really important. The same goes for the U.S. "Help". The instrumentals from the film means little to me, I rather have Beatle songs


Quote:

Originally Posted by 62hofner
It's funny, because I am just as anal as anyone when it comes down to "how things should be". In my case - as well as many others' - the Capitol releases are "how things should be". The Parlophone CDs required much getting used to when they were released in 1987. It was like having to learn to walk all over again.

Once again, It's great that U.S. fans can once again enjoy the albums they grew up with, and that they aren't less official then the U.K. ones. But you blame people that they claim that the U.S. versions aren't real, and how things should be, yet you're doing the same, but then claiming that the Capitol releases are how things should be. Anyway in the 20 topics we have running about the Capitol albums I think I've made my stance clear, and if you've read it carefully you find that you can't blame me of bashing the Capitol albums.

Enough said, time to start listening to the music in whatever form you like. Time also for me to update my Capitol albums article on my site, will let you know when it's finished. I promise to be fair, I certainly don't "resent" the capitol albums but at the same time, I don't think they are 100% great.

Rellevart May 12, 2006 05:41 PM

I think I would have cared more about owning the Capitol collection if the CD's would have come out 20 years ago, when I was still listening to and accustomed to my vinyl collection of those albums. But since they didn't, and the "original" British CD's came out instead, I bought those when I updated my Beatles collection to CD in the mid-80's. I'd only been listening to the Capitol albums for 10 years and now I've been listening to the originals for 20, so I'm used to that song order and those collections, so the Captol CD's are almost superfluous to me. I'd like to get them, but there are so many other things siphoning my money off that they're not all that high on the priority list. I certainly don't resent them though...who cares how you get your exposure to this great music as long as you do?

62hofner May 12, 2006 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMBOISVERT
And I am perplexed by the contention that 62hofner has sometimes put forward that the capitol versions are somehow more legitimate than the parlophone versions, that the British versions are "wrong."

Tony

I don't think I have ever suggested that the U.K. albums are "wrong" in any post in any thread on this forum. What I HAVE said is that in MY experience as a Beatles fan, the Capitol albums are correct to ME. I also may have said, on more than one occasion, that I think some of the Capitol albums WORK better as albums than the U.K. albums (Rubber Soul, in particular). An opinion. Disagree? Fine.

I can still remember the first time this topic reared its ugly head. I had posted something to the effect of how excited I was that the Capitol albums were finally coming out on CD. I received a reply from someone that went something like, "I can't understand why (you're excited)... they're not real."

So, all I have done here - what I just did by creating this thread - is defend the Capitol albums from those who refer to them as "wrong" or "not real"... that's all. I read an article that dissed the American albums, and it prompted my new thread.

I agree with whoever just said that a competition between the two versions of albums is silly. I never even gave these things a second thought - never thought of it as a competition. I'd have never had to pursue this topic had I never read things that bash the Capitol albums.

Ok, now I'm done. I'd like to think that we all are.

jtal909 May 13, 2006 08:27 AM

All the points made are valid.
I don't think 62Hof was saying the Capitol versions are more valid or real than the original UK versions.
They are what they are and growing up to them made them real (and original it's all relative) to those of us who wore them out on turntables.

When the UK versions came out on cd I was also happy to have more songs on one cd and found it interesting in the least to have the songs in their originally created form, but I never would dismiss the Capitols as something less because that was real to me and others who grew up with them.

But I also never felt the need to buy the Capitol versions on cd.

62hofner May 13, 2006 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtal909
But I also never felt the need to buy the Capitol versions on cd.

... unless you want better quality sound while you wait for the remastering of the U.K. CDs. The difference is like night and day(!). :thumbu2:

getback May 13, 2006 11:20 AM

i simply can't justify buying both the capitol and original masters, despite my having grown up w/ the u.s. ;-)

62hofner May 13, 2006 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by getback
i simply can't justify buying both the capitol and original masters, despite my having grown up w/ the u.s. ;-)

Funny thing is... after all this hooplah, I will most likely buy the remastered U.K. discs when they come out. I didn't think I'd want to bother considering that I've got (will have) all the Capitol albums on CD. But any opportunity that comes along to buy "new" Beatles CDs I take gladly. The more versions of their songs I can get the better.

pattiboyd's slave May 14, 2006 02:22 AM

I'd presume The Beatles didn't have much say in the early days if the American public was presented a different list order of their songs. I'm not sure how adamant they were as artist back then if they minded what Capitol was doing to their stuff over here. If anyone knows, let me know.

AMBOISVERT May 14, 2006 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pattiboyd's slave
I'd presume The Beatles didn't have much say in the early days if the American public was presented a different list order of their songs. I'm not sure how adamant they were as artist back then if they minded what Capitol was doing to their stuff over here. If anyone knows, let me know.

I remember reading or hearing Paul saying something about how annoyance with U.S. repackaging was a contributing factor in submitting the Butcher cover for YESTERDAY...AND TODAY. I suspect this is not the whole story, but perhaps it is no coincidence that REVOLVER (which contributed tracks to Y&T) was the last album to be significantly altered by Capitol.

There is also John's lighthearted annoyance at Shea Stadium that he doesn't even know what U.S. album "Baby's in Black" is on.

Tony

62hofner May 14, 2006 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMBOISVERT
I remember reading or hearing Paul saying something about how annoyance with U.S. repackaging was a contributing factor in submitting the Butcher cover for YESTERDAY...AND TODAY. I suspect this is not the whole story, but perhaps it is no coincidence that REVOLVER (which contributed tracks to Y&T) was the last album to be significantly altered by Capitol.

There is also John's lighthearted annoyance at Shea Stadium that he doesn't even know what U.S. album "Baby's in Black" is on.

Tony

"The next song we'd like to sing is off of "Beatles VI", I think... I don't know - I haven't got it."

That WAS funny.

getback May 14, 2006 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 62hofner
Funny thing is... after all this hooplah, I will most likely buy the remastered U.K. discs when they come out. I didn't think I'd want to bother considering that I've got (will have) all the Capitol albums on CD. But any opportunity that comes along to buy "new" Beatles CDs I take gladly. The more versions of their songs I can get the better.

and apple loves you and is counting on this.


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