John's 'God'

[beatlemethisbeatlemethat]

What do you think John is saying in his song God? Is he saying that God doesn't exist? or what? I'm probably way off, but when I first heard it, I thought John was trying to say that people use God as a way to blame for the bad things in life. I would really like to hear people's opinion on this.

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Peace, http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/heart.gif and Beatles,
Stefanie

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//0-0\\//0-0\\//0-0\\
"After all is said and done, you can't go pleasing everyone, so screw it"
--John Lennon

[joe]

i think he might have been saying that people build their world around heroes and god types,only to eventully get dis-illusioned.
the only thing he was putting his faith in was his soul mate, yoko.
http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/god.gif http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/king1.gif http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/jesus.gif http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/santa3.gif
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[bearkat77]

People do have a habit of blaming someone else, even God, when something goes wrong. I don't think that's a fair view on God.

From Whatever Gets You Thru The Night, the book that has the stories behind every Lennon song from 1970-1980, it states:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>The song begins with a fairly consistent tenet of John's religious thinking, namely God is an abstraction who really resides within human beings themselves. He then repeats the assertion for good measure. Having disposed of the biggest, he then proceeds to list each lesser concept in which he is no longer prepared to invest his faith... But the most impassioned disavowal of all is reserved for last. He does not, he declares, believe in Beatles.

In its entirety, then, "God" is best understood as what Yoko called "a declaration of independence", part of John's continuing search. In true primal scream fashion, he was cleansing his brain of anything and everything that stood between him and the core of his being. "God" illuminates the process whereby John hoped to rediscover himself as a man, not a Beatle, in order that he might begin his life all over again.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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[SleepyHead]

John may have said he didn't believe in God, but I don't think he meant it literally. I think rather, he was a firm believer in the phrase "God helps those who help themselves"... In other words, I think John was pushing self-realization, not giving up faith.

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[old_moon_shining]

Just an 'off the cuff' opinion, not having time to find specific quotes tonight. I'd say John did believe in God in some form, but to be honest, I don't think he had totally come to the end of his searching for answers when he died.

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"All men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and continue on as if nothing had happened" - Winston Churchill.

[SF4-EVER]

John said once that we're all God and we're all the Devil, which is something I kind of agree with myself. I think that's quoted in the Anthology book, but I don't have time to look it up right now.

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[SleepyHead]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By old_moon_shining:
Just an 'off the cuff' opinion, not having time to find specific quotes tonight. I'd say John did believe in God in some form, but to be honest, I don't think he had totally come to the end of his searching for answers when he died.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, maybe not right before he died... but I'd be willing to be he has all his answers now!



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[FPSHOT]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By SleepyHead:
I think rather, he was a firm believer in the phrase "God helps those who help themselves"...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is another Beatle who believes in that phrase and even put in in the lyrics of a song.


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Poison penmen sneak, have no nerve to speak
Make up lies then they leak 'm out
Behind a pseudonym, the rottenness in them
Reaching out trying to touch me

[jtal909]

I think John was telling us not to believe in an image or hype. The Beatles were for real, but when you turn out the lights, they were just John, Paul, George, and Ringo who have to do the same ordinary things as we do.

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"We're just a band. First Paul joined, then George joined, and then Ringo joined!"

[ABCKO]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By beatlemethisbeatlemethat:
I'm probably way off, but when I first heard it, I thought John was trying to say that people use God as a way to blame for the bad things in life.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's how I saw (and still see) it as well. But not just the bad things, the good ones as well...

Allthough I don't think he meant, litteraly, that God did not exist...

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[This Message Has Been Edited By ABCKO On July 08, 2001 11:42 PM]

[FPSHOT]

This seems to be a pretty good look at things.

The song does not only refer to God but also to others who had at that time some
'influence' on people's thinking.

And reading these lyrics, he was also into isolation at that time with Yoko and did not care what was happening elsewhere.

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I welcome you to Crackerbox Palace
We've been expecting you
You bring such joy in Crackerbox Palace
No matter where you roam know our love is true

[beatlebangs1964]

I think John was responding to God in the conceptual sense. My take on it is John was responding to how there are as many interpretations and representations of God as there are individuals and that his perception of God is from an intellectual/artistic standpoint. John appears to regard God purely as an idea to be considered, debated and well thought out as opposed to understood. I agree that John claimed people blamed God for their own shortcomings. I really think John was reminding people to rely on the resources and tools God endowed them with and build on those strengths.

I could be wrong, but that is just the way I was interpreting John's song.

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Then we will remember things we said today. Yeah.
-- Beatles, 1964

BB1964

[beatlemethisbeatlemethat]

wow these are really good. Thanks for helping me understand the song more http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

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Peace, http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/heart.gif and Beatles,
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//0-0\\//0-0\\//0-0\\
"After all is said and done, you can't go pleasing everyone, so screw it"
--John Lennon

[Tim]

I posted this back in may when this was in the And Your Bird Can Sing forum:

The meaning of the song God is that in the end,it had to be self-realisation.
As he states in the beginning God is a concept we use to measure our pain.
We always turn to the divine in sufferung.

As to the I don't beleive in part,it is all the false idols John found as it were,or at least that John felt let him down in some way-

Religious (Jesus,Buddha)
"Mystic" books (Bible,I-ching,Gita)
Other forms of religion (magic,Tarot,mantra)Political Leaders(Hitler,Kennedy,Kings(monarchy)...though I doubt he ever belived in Hitler,although he did want him on the pepper cover,)
Pop Culture (Elvis,Zimmerman(Bob Dylan),Beatles)

After all the things he tried to beleive in left him down,he found all to beleive in ultimately is yourself and those you love most I just beleive in me...Yoko and me,that's reality

Hope this isn't too heavy.




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Tim
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[darkhorse]

That was my exact interpretation of the song. It is not really about John "losing his religion" or his faith or anything... He's just unhappy about how things are in the world, and that's a way of saying it. He was disappointed about how the world was, and this was just one way to say it, to shout it out loud... God is being used as a source to escape from all the problems, as a way to "measure our pain"... And the wrong idols take the top places in people's minds. This is just not right and John had always something to say about it.

God bless his soul for that. http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

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"My life's been so many ways
Too much darkness gets me crazed"

[LucySkyDiamond]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By SleepyHead:
Well, maybe not right before he died... but I'd be willing to be he has all his answers now!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think John has all of his answers now. I believe he is ever-evolving and journeying onward as a Spirit with an eye toward other Universes, and a vested interest in this one as well.

This is not meant to negate the beliefs of others; only to express my own. Thank you. http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/kiss2.gif


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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By bearkat77:
From Whatever Gets You Thru The Night, the book that has the stories behind every Lennon song from 1970-1980
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Didn't you mean from We All Shine On?

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[bearkat77]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By Nowhere Man:
Didn't you mean from We All Shine On?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, Whatever Gets You Thru The Night is the title of the book I have.

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That's interesting (odd perhaps?)... is the one you have by Paul Du Noyer? If so, then we must have the same version with different titles (mine is We All Shine On).

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[Starkey Harrison Girl]

Yeah, I think John believed in God one way or another. I was in Virgin Megastore and I saw a magazine called 'Lennon' and started looking through it. At the close end of it, there was a quote from Yoko saying something about how John prayed for peace in the world and all that. And in one of the pics of him in N.Y and he has on that N.Y shirt, if you look closely, hes wearing a cross! So, you never know! images/icons/smile.gif

[ Jan 24, 2004, 02:09 PM: Message Edited By: Starkey Harrison Girl ]