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View Full Version : Alternate Imagine Review (AKA horning in on Joelscrowservo's territory)


Doctor Kite
Aug 09, 2003, 04:58 PM
This is my first Bootleg review, please excuse any general crapness or mistakes (of which i am sure there will be a few).

For many Plastic Ono Band marks the pinacle of John's solo career. Not for me, i'll go for the imagine album everytime. Whilst i would accept that POB reaches hights that Imagine does not, i also feel it has too many moments that are just boring really (Well Well Well springs to mind for example). Also I think Mother was bettered on the Live in New York City album. With that in mind an alternate version of imagine was always going to be higher on my "to get" list than POB and i was delighted to get a CDR version for a little over £1 (that under a dollar i think).

A couple of notes: 1) I understand that there is a 1 disc and a 3 disc version of the alternate imagine, this review is of the one disc version. 2) Any comparisons to the normal version of imagine is to the remastered CD version released a couple of years back.

GENERALITIES

The alternate imagine is a strange beast. A lot of the time it feels half produced something of a hybrid version of the Bathroom Tile production of POB and the warmth of the remastered imagine. The interesting thing for me was that a lot of the reverberating wall of sound that characterises Phil Spectors production was apparent even in this alternate form. I had always belived that much of this sound came from overlays, but much of it appears to have been there right from the initial recording.

The sound of the album is really quite unique, it is almost as if the sound of each instrument (and John's voice obviously) was piped into a cavern or chamber to echo around for a bit and then that resulting sound was chanelled through a megaphone or PA system.

In general whilst this is clearly a spector influenced production the orchestration that is on the normal imagine is mostly abscent here. Much of the bass, piano and drums seems to be either more prominent or more detailed (to steal shamelessly from joelscrowservo "they breathe").

THE TRACKS

1) Imagine: More than a Demo recording, less than a fully fledged track. This alternate version indicates how much production and polishing went into the final track; a hell of a lot more production than one would have imagined (sorry couldn't resist) for such a track which sounds so simple and elegant. The Bass is heavier, more detailed and more prominent. The track sound somehow less clutered as though the instruments have space to spare. On the downside the track lacks warmth and emotion and John's vocals lack the compasion and optimism one is used to on this track.

2) Crippled Inside. Not too disimilar to the normal version. However this track (and the next) really illustrate my "instruments to cavern to PA" explanation above. The Reverb is almost like real sound or a solid instrument in of itself and it's almost if it's echoing too.

3) Jealous Guy. The reverb on John's voice and the Piano is seriously out of control on this one to the detriment of the song. The POB bathroom tile sound is evident too again it lacks warmth, it has impact; but then so does a shard of crystal cutting into your skin! On the other hand the bass is a little more prominent and a lot more detailed, unfortunately it sounds a little like it has been pumped through a digeridoo before being recorded, giving it a vaguely flatunlant sound. This unfortuante combination gives the track a slightly scizophrenic feel.

4) It's so Hard: Very similar to the finished product, a little more reverb on John's voice but other than that there's not much in it.

5) How Do You Sleep? At this stage most of the lyrics appear to be there but the arrangements are not. There are a fair few differences between this and the finsihed track. For a kick off theres a reprise of the first verse at the end. Lennon's voice lacks its usual commitment (as Anthology 2 said, john usually commits whatever the take or stage of development the song is at), here there are lots of drawn out oohs and aahs at the end of lines, some are delivered in funny tones of voice too! The Ba-Da-Da-Da Ba-Da-Da-Dum guitar riff is less relentless and less prominent than on the final version and there's an irritating Keyboard/Melatron/Sytnth in the background too (to be honest have no idea what the instrument was, those were my best guesses). John asks George to take it (or words to that effect) before his guitar solo. Interestigly there are a few How do you sleep, brother?/sister? lines in the lyrics.

6) Gimmie Some Truth. As with It's So Hard not too many differences. However there is a bit of guitar running through the song that sounds like someone is playing on a bango that has very loose strings (or one of those little cheap plastic guitars that young kids get which always end uyp with loose strings in a couple of hours).

7) Oh My Love. John's voice on this on is a bit more ethereal with a touch more reverb on it too. The piano is more prominent and sounds great, really interesting actually. Another track with a slight POB feel to it.

8) How Do You Sleep?: A not more developed than last time. the vocal is more committed and the reprise of the first veres is gone. The Ba-Da-Da-Da Ba-Da-Da-Dum riff is more prominent and approaching the relentless quality of the final version. Unfortunately it sounds like a banjo afflicted with the same flatulants that affected the Bass on Jealous guy. John asks How do you Sleep PUNK!

9) How?: Probably the best of the alternate versions, superior (IMO) to the final version. Little orchestration, the drums and the piano are more prominent and more detailed. The reverb on the Piano is not so strong, thus the piano has a perfunctory quality to it which i really liked. The only things to say against this version is that early in the song John appears to have a frog in his throat (for those not familiar with the term read a little croaky), there is also a bit of twinkly syths which gets a bit wearing. But the final verdict is in on this one: Normal How? hang your head in shame.

10) Oh Yoko! Quite similar to the normal version. Slightly shifted to the POB style, but only slightly. Johns vocals are a little bit harder as are the drums. The harmonica at the end seems to be a little bit more elaborate too. A very good alternative to the normal verison. On a par with it.

11) San Fransisco Bay: Filler. A half formed ditty. Charming but slight.

SO IS IT ANY GOOD

Despite some unfavourable comments and comparisons above i would wholeheartedly recommend the alternate imagine to anyone with an interest in, or likeing for, solo John (or even just the imagine album). The only person i could see not liking this is one that a) doesn't like bootlegs, 2) already has the 3 CD version. Of course very few of the tracks are better than their final/normal version counterparts but that is only to be expected; off the top of my head i can only think of two Beatle related tracks which better the normal version, Mother Natures Son on Anthology 3 and I'm Loosing You on Wonsaponatime. For this album to have 1 better version and one equal one speaks volumes about its quality.

The alternate image is also very listenable in its own right and is a good way of extending the lifespan and interest of the original. If you get to the end of POB and are in the mood for more Lennon of that style this would be a very good bet. Certainly for less than a dollar you could do MUCH worse and would be unlikely to do any better! images/icons/wink.gif

I generally loathe to boil something down into marks, but for the sake of clarity: 4/5 (Would've been higher but there is a three disc verion out there!)

perhaps
Aug 09, 2003, 05:08 PM
Thanks for the review! I would like so many bootlegs, but this one has moved to the top of my list (for now). Thanks!

joelcrowservo
Aug 09, 2003, 10:42 PM
Oh please, don't feel your are, like, abusing my copyrighted bootleg review pedestal! Actually its funny, I'd already planned to do an review of Johns Double Fantasy sessions CD!
I'd been wondering if the Imagine sessions CDs were any good, so thanks for doing a review! Do you know if this is, in essense, a 'best of' the 3 discer? If so, I always think thats a good idea, dunno why it isnt done more often. I'll counter balance it soon with my review! I'm just happy people seem to like my articles/contribution.

[ Aug 10, 2003, 03:33 AM: Message Edited By: joelcrowservo ]

Doctor Kite
Aug 10, 2003, 04:02 AM
That was tongue-in-cheek self deprication on my part! I also had this fear that you would be working on doing the same thing at the same time as me! And i wasn't too far off.

I don't think this is a best of three CD version. IIRC this version was released originally and then later it was essentially the first disc of the the 3 disc set. I'll get back to you on this though.

joelcrowservo
Aug 10, 2003, 04:13 AM
Originally Posted By Doctor Kite:
That was tongue-in-cheek self deprication on my part! I also had this fear that you would be working on doing the same thing at the same time as me! And i wasn't too far off.
<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">Wow, isn't that strange? Great minds think alike I guess images/icons/smile.gif

Doctor Kite
Aug 10, 2003, 05:11 AM
I'm Back. It seems that the album is neither a sampler or, as i thought, the first part of the 3 CD set. Rather the 1st cd of the 3 cd set is an upgrade of the 1 CD. From: THE BEATLES NOT FOR SALE:

IMAGINE - THE ALTERNATE ALBUM
SIDEWALK MUSIC SM 89009 CD
Imagine/ Crippled Inside/ Jealous Guy/ It's So Hard/ How Do You Sleep?/ Give Me Some Truth/ Oh My Love/ How Do You Sleep (#2)1 How?/ Oh Yoko!/ San Francisco Bay Blues
R: Exs. S: Alternate & outtake versions. C: Dbw. Blue type. A vinyl copy of this disc was available in 1990 on 'Apple Records' (bogus) as SW-A-3379. A few were later released on white vinyl.

IMAGINE...ALL THE OUTTAKES
VIGOTONE VT-118/119/120 CD 1994
Source: Studio
Sound Quality: Excellent stereo
Rating: *****

CD1: ALL THE OUTTAKES (48:41)
Imagine (version 2, take 1)
Crippled Inside ((take 17)
Jealous Guy (take 2)
It's So Hard (take 2)
I Don't Wanna Be A Soldier Mama, I Don't Wanna Die (take 2)
Gimme Some Truth (alt. vocal)
Oh My Love (take 2)
How Do You Sleep? (alt. vocal)
How? (alt. vocal)
Oh Yoko! (take 9)
'Just A Little Story...' (studio monologue)
Well (Baby Please Don't Go) (take 1)

CD2: THE OUTTAKES (62:21)
Tracks 1-4 Imagine (takes 1-3 & alt. vocal)
Crippled Inside (take 2)
Tracks 6-8 Jealous Guy (takes 1, 7 and vocal take 20)
Tracks 9-10 I Don't Wanna Be A Soldier Mama, I Don't Wanna Die (take 1 & alt. mix)
Tracks 11-12 Oh My Love (alt. takes la & Ib)
Tracks 13-15 How? (take 12 & alt. vocal)
Oh Yoko! (take 7)
I'm The Greatest (piano demo)
Imagine (rehearsal)
San Francisco Bay Blues (impromptu studio solo)
CD3: THE SESSIONS & THE DEMOS (73:20)
How Do You Sleep? (rehearsals)
Oh My Love (acoustic demos)
How? (piano demos)
People Get Ready, How? (piano demo)
Medley: How?, Child Of Nature, Oh Yoko! (piano demo)
Oh Yoko! (acoustic & piano demos)
It's So Hard (sax overdub)
I Don't Wanna Be a Soldier Mama, I Don't Wanna Die (sax overdub)
How Do You Sleep? (reprise)
CD1 is an upgrade of THE ALTERNATE ALBUM previously released. CD2 outtakes from tape source. CD3 tracks 1-8 sessions. Tracks 9-15 demos. Tracks 16-18 overdub session. An excellent package that comes in a nice color box with a 34-page booklet included. The booklet has excellent liner notes and includes a reprint of a Lennon interview which is one of his best. There are also session notes that help us to better appreciate the music. This is a great example of what a bootleg can be if the right people are producing it. Highly recommended. This set, however, is not complete as an alternate take How? (from LLT 14) and the King Curtis rehearsal of It's So Hard (from LLT 24) have not been included. Still, it's close enough for most of us.

ANOTHER RELEASE

IMAGINE-THE SESSIONS
VIGOTONE VT-CD 08
Imagine*/ Crippled Inside*/ Jealous Guy*/ It's So Hard*/ I Don't Want To Be A Soldier*/ Give Me Some Truth*/ Oh, My Love*/ How Do You Sleep*/ Oh, Yoko*/ Jam (session outtake)/ How Do You Sleep (rehearsal)/ Oh, My Love (vers. two)/ I'm The Greatest (demo)/ Well (Baby Please Don't Go - session outtake)/ How Do You Sleep (low vocal)/ Imagine (solo piano)/ San Francisco Bay Blues (solo acoustic)
R: Exs/m. S: 'Lost Lennon Tapes' radio series. *Alternate takes. C: BCD. Dcc.

onosideboards
Aug 11, 2003, 01:16 PM
oh i'm not more experienced! i just am really picky when it comes to boots. i think i'm about to stop acquiring them because i'm running into too much duplication and the "alternate versions" might have one note different. i'm not a musician nor very experienced with recording techniques so it has to be really obvious for me to notice. i much prefer demos and different arrangements.

anyway, like i said, i wasn't listening to it too carefully. i'll try to listen to it again soon. images/icons/smile.gif

onosideboards
Aug 11, 2003, 11:44 PM
on the other hand:

i got this boot a while ago and half-listened to it once. i was fairly disappointed because there were not enough differences between it and the released album. i prefer much more obvious, drastic differences for a good boot. i'd much rather seek out the imagine sessions from the lost lennon tapes than listen to the alternative imagine. personally, i don't recommend it with the caveat that i was not really concentrating on it while listening.

my 2 cents... images/icons/smile.gif

Doctor Kite
Aug 11, 2003, 11:53 PM
Heretic:D

Seriously though, i am glad ther is an alternate view on this from a more experience bootlegger. I found it different enough for my tastes, Listenabilty is generally more important to me than differences (though that is of course a matter of personal judgement) although i might well change that opinion if and when i get hold of the other stuff relating to imagine.

Legs
Aug 17, 2003, 12:00 PM
I think I go for one of these alternate albums, the cd-r label Birthday records also has a 3 cd set, maybe I pick that one up.

On the other hand how much of this material is also on the Lost Lennon Tapes, I might be able to compile a 3 cd set from what I have on the LLT cd set.

[ Aug 17, 2003, 01:01 PM: Message Edited By: Legs ]

Doctor Kite
Aug 17, 2003, 12:43 PM
I don't have any Lennon bootlegs other than the alternate imagine. I am really new to Bootlegs, i dare say Joelcrowservo or onosideboards will be along with an answer though!

joelcrowservo
Aug 17, 2003, 06:40 PM
Never dare me. images/icons/wink.gif Yeah, I think much of it (like almost everything else out there) is from LLT. Theres very little from that series that hasnt been used on countless boots. But any Lennon is good Lennon, I say. Unless its Freddy. Come on Kite, son, wheres yer latest review? You did great with that last one!

Doctor Kite
Aug 18, 2003, 01:39 AM
Well at this stage i don't have much in the way of bootleg material. But i'll open it up to a choice

1) 12 Arnold Grove

2) Unsurpassed Masters Vol.3

3) The George Harrison Tribute concert

and (once it has arived) the Beatles & Tony Sheridan stuff.

[ Aug 18, 2003, 02:42 AM: Message Edited By: Doctor Kite ]

onosideboards
Aug 20, 2003, 09:07 AM
Originally Posted By Doctor Kite:
Well at this stage i don't have much in the way of bootleg material. But i'll open it up to a choice

1) 12 Arnold Grove

2) Unsurpassed Masters Vol.3

3) The George Harrison Tribute concert

and (once it has arived) the Beatles & Tony Sheridan stuff.<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">which tony sheridan stuff?

Doctor Kite
Aug 20, 2003, 09:20 AM
I'll be honest i am not sure, someone else i know who is a bootleg collector (but not into the beatles) is sending it to me as he no longer wants it, he doesn't actually know to much about it, but i am getting it for gratis so i am not complaining. I'll post a review at some stage (unless i'd be treading on anyone elses toes!). I think i'll probably do Unsurpassed Masters 3 next (probably be posted some time next week).

onosideboards
Aug 21, 2003, 08:49 AM
yeah, if you could review or post a link to a track listing of the sheridan stuff, i know i'd appreciate it. i have a polydor disc, but i know there's a second one with some different songs. but i've only seen that one on vinyl for like $13. i'm wondering if it's worth that much.

i'm supposed to be getting unsurpassed vol. 3 soon too so i'd love for you to review it then i can knowledgably add remarks. images/icons/smile.gif

Doctor Kite
Aug 21, 2003, 09:01 AM
Well since i am getting it for free i can't be sure even if i like it a lot if it would be worth $13.

Ill try to get the Unsurpassed Masters vol 3 up by next wednesday.

Paolo Meccano
Aug 21, 2003, 01:35 PM
Here's a link to a collection which has all the Tony Sheridan stuff - 'Beatles Bop - Hamburg Days' (http://www.bear-family.de/index_english.htm)

[ Aug 21, 2003, 02:36 PM: Message Edited By: Paolo Meccano ]

onosideboards
Aug 22, 2003, 10:46 AM
Originally Posted By Paolo Meccano:
Here's a link to a collection which has all the Tony Sheridan stuff - 'Beatles Bop - Hamburg Days' (http://www.bear-family.de/index_english.htm)<font size="2" face="Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif">oh yeah, i forgot all about that set. thanks!