Michael Jackson? [Archive] - BeatleLinks Fab Forum

Asha

Jun 25, 2009, 02:38 PM

Sorry would've had this sooner but my PC just died, too!

Pop star Michael Jackson dead: report
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090625/people_nm/us_jackson_5

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) – Pop giant Michael Jackson, who took to the stage as a child star and set the world dancing to exuberant rhythms for decades, died on Thursday, TMZ website reported. He was 50.

There was no official confirmation of the reported death and spokespersons for Jackson could not be reached for comment.

"We've just learned Michael Jackson has died," TMZ said.

"Michael suffered a cardiac arrest earlier this afternoon at his Holmby Hills home and paramedics were unable to revive him. We're told when paramedics arrived Jackson had no pulse and they never got a pulse back," the entertainment site said.

It added, "A source tells us Jackson was dead when paramedics arrived."

Earlier, the Los Angeles Times said the singer had been rushed to a Los Angeles-area hospital by fire department paramedics who found him not breathing when they arrived at the singer's home.

The newspaper said paramedics performed cardiopulmonary resuscitation at the scene before taking him to the UCLA Medical Center hospital.

Jackson had been due to start a series of comeback concerts in London on July 13 running until March 2010. The singer, whose hits included "Thriller" and "Billie Jean," had been rehearsing in the Los Angeles area for the past two months.

The shows for the 50 London concerts sold out within minutes of going on sale in March.

His lifetime record sales tally is believed to be around 750 million, which, added to the 13 Grammy Awards he received, makes him one of the most successful entertainers of all time.

He lived as a virtual recluse since his acquittal in 2005 on charges of child molestation.

There were concerns about Jackson's health in recent years but the promoters of the London shows, AEG Live, said in March that Jackson had passed a 4-1/2 hour physical examination with independent doctors.

CHILD STAR TO MEGASTAR

Jackson was born on August 29, 1958, in Gary, Indiana, the seventh of nine children. Five Jackson boys -- Jackie, Tito, Jermaine, Marlon and Michael -- first performed together at a talent show when Michael was 6. They walked off with first prize and went on to become a best-selling band, The Jackson Five, and then The Jackson 5.

Jackson made his first solo album in 1972, and released "Thriller" in 1982, which became a smash hit that yielded seven top-10 singles. The album sold 21 million copies in the United States and at least 27 million worldwide.

The next year, he unveiled his signature "moonwalk" dance move while performing "Billie Jean" during an NBC special.

In 1994, Jackson married Elvis Presley's only child, Lisa Marie, but the marriage ended in divorce in 1996. Jackson married Debbie Rowe the same year and had two children, before splitting in 1999. The couple never lived together.

Jackson has three children named Prince Michael I, Paris Michael and Prince Michael II, known for his brief public appearance when his father held him over the railing of a hotel balcony, causing widespread criticism.

Marmalade Skies

Jun 25, 2009, 02:40 PM

Granted, I've made my fair share of Michael Jackson jokes....but Thriller was like my first album ever. I kinda feel like crying. :sad1:

Asha

Jun 25, 2009, 02:40 PM

AP Source: Michael Jackson dies in LA hospital

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090625/ap_en_ce/us_obit_michael_jackson

LOS ANGELES – Michael Jackson, the record-breaking, sensationally gifted "King of Pop" who emerged from childhood superstardom to become the entertainment world's most influential singer and dancer, and the tabloid world's most disturbing celebrity, has died. He was 50.

A person with knowledge of the situation says Jackson died Thursday in a Los Angeles hospital. The person was not authorized to speak publicly and requested anonymity.

His death brought a tragic end to a long, bizarre, sometimes farcical decline from his peak in the 1980s, when he was popular music's premier all-around performer, a uniter of black and white music who shattered the race barrier on MTV, dominated the charts and dazzled even more on stage.

Asha

Jun 25, 2009, 02:42 PM

Granted, I've made my fair share of Michael Jackson jokes....but Thriller was like my first album ever. I kinda feel like crying. :sad1:

I don't think it's sunk in for me.

I remember the Jackson 5 WAAAAY back when they first hit the radio.

I walked by Michael at Disneyland in 1981 at a private party.

I dunno... Everything just seems surreal right now.

Asha

Jun 25, 2009, 02:48 PM

snihdG1rE0Y

mluque125

Jun 25, 2009, 02:49 PM

This is extremely shocking, I don't even know what to make of it, I am so upset, rest in peace!

mluque125

Jun 25, 2009, 02:50 PM

I honestly do not believe this, this is so sudden, I feel like this is all one big joke, I can't imagine a world without Jackson. I am not a huge fan of his, but either way, I can't believe it.

Clark Kent

Jun 25, 2009, 03:06 PM

Michael Jackson was an absolute legend. He had such brilliant songs with the Jackson 5 ("Show You the Way to Go", "I Want You Back", "ABC", "Blame it on the Boogie") and then he fulfilled his potential by going solo and having such a mega-successful solo career. I loved his music when I was a kid, songs like "Black or White", "Bad", "Beat It", "Billie Jean" and of course, my favourite, "Heal the World". Michael Jackson is a global icon and when you listen to the music, you can forgive him all his eccentricities.

RIP

:sad1:

erinluv182

Jun 25, 2009, 03:15 PM

My mom and I were watching NBC News, and Brian Williams just opened with it. Our jaws just both hit the floor. I can't believe it. Far too young. I know he had his issues, but I have honestly always felt a little sorry for the guy. Even for those who didn't like him, no one will ever be able to deny his HUGE contributions to music. I pray that God will comfort his family, especially his children.

Asha

Jun 25, 2009, 03:19 PM

News here just talked to the family spokesperson. He made it sound like he can't say what's going on yet, but Jermaine, LaToya & Randy are there at the hospital & are sobbing. The hospital has made no official statement yet. However, all the telly stations here are saying he's dead.

The family spokesperson also said that Michael has been having issues with prescription drugs. Although he's always been very fit, he said that Michael was surrounded by people who enabled him in taking too many prescription drugs. He said the family has been trying to help Michael for over a month to get away from this. He's not sure if that's what caused the heart attack that killed Michael, but... interesting!

Michael's father is on the way to the hospital from Las Vegas, but Vegas to LA is several hours... so it may be a while.

MaccaGirl2891

Jun 25, 2009, 03:23 PM

What about Janet? His mom?

I have a pic of Michael with George Harrison. I'll dig it up

Asha

Jun 25, 2009, 03:23 PM

LA Coroner just officially confirmed Michael's death.

donnamariemoreno27

Jun 25, 2009, 03:25 PM

It's a 4 hr drive from Vegas to L.A.-I'm sure he'll be flying which only be a an hr flt...

Personal life/issues aside-you can't ignore his muscial talent,I'm mostly a fan of the "Jackson Five" songs and his early solo albums i.e-Thriller, Bad...

RIP Michael-hopefully you've seen Farrah on your way up...

Donna~

Asha

Jun 25, 2009, 03:26 PM

What about Janet? His mom?

I have a pic of Michael with George Harrison. I'll dig it up

No word on the rest of the family at this time. They only mentioned Joe, Jermaine, LaToya & Randy.

There seems to be some concern, too, as to where Michael's three children are. I hope they weren't home to see Michael collapse.

Asha

Jun 25, 2009, 03:28 PM

ilianna

Jun 25, 2009, 03:28 PM

This so bizarre. We have lost three people in one week. This is madness.

Asha

Jun 25, 2009, 03:31 PM

LA Coroner just said he officially died at 2.26pm Pacific Time Zone.

Asha

Jun 25, 2009, 03:32 PM

This so bizarre. We have lost three people in one week. This is madness.

Yeah, totally weird! But they often say these things happen in threes. :afraid2:

Asha

Jun 25, 2009, 03:39 PM

Ok, I have to turn it off. Some loud mouth is turning this into a racial thing... saying Michael was the first black singer... Hello? How soon we forget Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Chubby Checker... not to mention some of the blues men from the 1900s... Robert Johnson being my personal fave...

& then he went on to say that "We Are the World" started things of like Band Aid & Farm Aid... yes I'll give him that... but then he said Live Aid. Excuse me... I guess he didn't notice the Concert for Bangladesh! :laugh5:

Mind you, Michael was VERY talented & I do believe he did a LOT for charities & children. (Sometimes maybe TOO much...) No doubt about it whether you like him or not there was some good in him. But come on...

MaccaGirl2891

Jun 25, 2009, 03:40 PM

I wonder if his remains/ashes will come back home to Indiana.
Who knows.

donnamariemoreno27

Jun 25, 2009, 03:44 PM

Well...that would depend totally on his will-if he even had one made up or atleast "a living trust"-I'm sure everything will go to his three kids...

Donna~

ringo_rama

Jun 25, 2009, 03:53 PM

The real shame is that he never got a chance to redeem himself. Musically, inarguably one of the most talented guys of all time. He had his quirks, and definitely wasn't exactly a model citizen...but he was pretty damn amazing and I was really rooting for him with this London tour he had planned, not to be a comeback but to at least restore his name.

MaccaGirl2891

Jun 25, 2009, 04:36 PM

http://www.spinner.com/2009/01/06/jackson-leaving-beatles-songs-to-mccartney-in-will/

This was written in January but I hope he did this.

ilianna

Jun 25, 2009, 04:42 PM

Yeah, totally weird! But they often say these things happen in threes. :afraid2:

That's exactly what my mom said! :afraid2:

Blackguard

Jun 25, 2009, 04:55 PM

The DJ on the radio today said that Michael Jackson may have died and wished the best. He came back about 1/2 an hour later and confirmed that Jackson was pronounced dead.

His comment was very appropriate, he said that when Jackson started his solo career he refused to look back on his Jackson5 hits and wanted to forge his own image. He became a unique and individual talent.

I agree with that assessment.

I wish only the best for the Jackson family.

To answer the inevitable question; "Where Were You When... I was leaving one of my stops in Scranton, PA. on my way to get a sandwich for the drive back to the depot.

scouseofdistinction

Jun 25, 2009, 05:04 PM

I was just getting off work when I heard my coworkers talking. I didn't catch who they said had a cardiac arrest, but when I was leaving, I received a text from my best friend asking me if I heard about Michael Jackson. Before I could reply, I noticed all the radio stations were playing his music, then I heard the announcment.

This is indeed shocking to hear. Even though I wasn't a huge fan of MJ as a person, that never meant I wasn't a fan of his music. My mother was a fan of his so growing up, I would hear her constantly play Michael Jackson albums. I remember even watching these music video-videos on TV...you know, those long skits like Thriller...there was something else too, but I can't remember.

Overall, this is indeed shocking to hear. And so young too. I hope his family and close friends are ok. May he R.I.P.

erinluv182

Jun 25, 2009, 05:38 PM

Yeah, totally weird! But they often say these things happen in threes. :afraid2:

Yea, this really weirds me out. A co-worker emailed today telling us she had just heard about Farrah passing away, and I said to her "I wonder who the third will be", hoping it wouldn't be anyone, and not at ALL thinking that we would lose someone else so quickly after her passing. Just sad.

beatlebangs1964

Jun 25, 2009, 05:49 PM

I wonder who will take of both Prince Michaels and Paris. Michael Jackson was not their natural father and their natural mother Debbie Rowe (sp) once had custody, but after being paid a princely sum signed a statement giving custody of the children to Michael Jackson.

I don't know who PM II's mother is. I heard this on the news tonight.

Georgie Girl

Jun 25, 2009, 06:01 PM

beatlebangs1964

Jun 25, 2009, 06:05 PM

I don't think I've ever been so shocked by a famous person's passing.

I was not a fan of Michael as a solo artist, but we kids did have a few
Jackson Five 45's, and we enjoyed their Saturday morning cartoon.
To me, in the early '80's, when Thriller and all those came out and
were so big that everyone in Hollywood was kissing up to MJ, and
he seemed to me to be one big ego ever since. To me, his songs
weren't particularly appealing, and his squeaky voice sort of grated
on my nerves. I realize I'm in the minority--he had legions of fans,
and I feel bad for them and all the Jacksons. It's very painful to lose
a family member. I hope his kids are going to be okay.

I was never a J5, Jacksons or MJ fan either and I confess that I didn't like the way the Moon Walk looked at all and MJ's squeaky voice irritated me as well. I agree with everything you said above, GGirl and I'm one of the few people who didn't like Thriller, the song or the video or the LP/CD. I thought the woman who starred in Thriller looked like a hyena.

I really didn't like the video where he touches himself when a Chevrolet was being bashed to trash. Four minutes were since cut from that video, but I still didn't like it.

I feel bad for the fans and the family, although I didn't care for MJ's music and I, too share a tent in the minority camp GGirl inhabits above.

Georgie Girl

Jun 25, 2009, 06:10 PM

I thought the woman who starred in Thriller looked like a hyena.

:rolling3:

I feel terrible for laughing in this thread, but....:laugh5:

hibgal

Jun 25, 2009, 06:13 PM

VersusBatman

Jun 25, 2009, 07:18 PM

I feel like a part of my childhood died.

Lynner

Jun 25, 2009, 07:54 PM

Wow. This is sad. The man who could have had so much. I really enjoyed the Jackson 5 when they first hit it big. The songs were/are fun to dance to. I hope he is at peace.

Lucy

Jun 26, 2009, 02:59 AM

I am really sad about this.

Would you guys believe that just on Wednesday - the day before he died - I bought my ticket to go and see him in September. I was so excited and was going with a BIG MJ fan so it was all going to be good fun. I am thinking if ticketmaster were really on to it and sent them out during the day yesterday, the tickets might even be waiting for me when i get home.....that will be sad.

I am worried for his children and very sad for the family.

He was the sound of my childhood and each time another one of his songs plays on the radio (the tributes are rolling in), it seems to upset me a little more.

Really shocked and upset. My heart goes out to his mega fans. This must really hurt them if I feel this way and I am just a moderate fan of his.

Magill

Jun 26, 2009, 03:26 AM

It's just so sad and unexpected. I mean, I grew up with him when he was part of the Jackson-5. It is truly an end of an era. For me, at least. I feel like a part of my childhood has died with him. RIP, Michael. :sad1: It must've been your time to go.

FPSHOT

Jun 26, 2009, 03:29 AM

That is really tough Lucy...really tough. I am so sorry.

Us Beatles people know how it is to lose one you have admired so much whereas others didn't.

That is the world of music.

I have had great times with Michael's songs and can name so many which brought me so much joy

ABC...that period

Ben, the movie I saw in the 70's which was so touching and changed my mind about rats.

The Thriller days in disco was smashing - to me. And about the 'hyena' remark which is sad on a thread like this...but back than I thought she was quite...good looking. Beat It, Billy Jean, great dance songs.

The Way You Make Me Feel...wow...

Libarian Girl...how I loved that one

We Are The World

And with his brothers;

Let Me Show You The Way To Go

Can You Feel It

the Destiny album

Okay so yes I have some opinions about 'what I read about' his lifestyle and well in today's world how many actors/artists do not have body parts rebuilt and reshaped and still think they look nice.

But for his music, even though I do not own any of his music apart from the Paul things, he sure was a talent and sure knew what to do with it, however I just have the impression he was not happy, but is that something to judge him for.

We lost another music hero, that's for sure.

Asha

Jun 26, 2009, 04:39 AM

Yea, this really weirds me out. A co-worker emailed today telling us she had just heard about Farrah passing away, and I said to her "I wonder who the third will be", hoping it wouldn't be anyone, and not at ALL thinking that we would lose someone else so quickly after her passing. Just sad.

Having said that, did it seem even more shocking to you when you found out who the third one was?

Magill

Jun 26, 2009, 05:31 AM

Yeah. My Mom always said that celebrity deaths almost always happen in threes. Except, I thought maybe the 3rd would be Patrick Swayze--not MJ. Still in shock here and a bit weirded out. :afraid3:

MaccaGirl2891

Jun 26, 2009, 07:31 AM

Paul speaks about MJ's death (from Yahoo):
"It's so sad and shocking. I feel privileged to have hung out and worked with Michael. He was a massively talented boy man with a gentle soul. His music will be remembered forever."

Rellevart

Jun 26, 2009, 07:46 AM

I am by no means a fan, but it's sad and shocking when people only a few years older than me are dying. Good thoughts to his family, especially his children.

McCartneyGirl909

Jun 26, 2009, 08:35 AM

Sad, indeed. :cry2: It's the first news I've read in my cellphone early in the morning. I couldn't believe it at first. I was like "No way!" But then, it was true. So sad. :(

digdad

Jun 26, 2009, 08:46 AM

It was definitely shocking hearing about Michael's death when I got home from work last night. 50 is far too young.

EasternBird

Jun 26, 2009, 09:09 AM

What a shock! At least 2 years before I ever became aware of The Beatles, I knew who Michael Jackson was and I had heard his music countless times. "Thriller" was the album that introduced me to the concepts of music, musicians, albums, music videos, and MTV.

One of my coworkers said last night, "It's just like when Elvis died. He was just as popular, and it's just as shocking, and it's just as big a loss." I believe him. Although I thought Jackson had become an increasingly creepy and dislikable guy over the years, there's still that little kid inside of me who always ran to the TV every time "Thriller" came on, and for that, I will miss him and remember him fondly. A huge part of my childhood is now gone forever.

I spent most of last night on YouTube having my own Michael Jackson video marathon. Highly recommended. :cool1:

Legs

Jun 26, 2009, 09:16 AM

Sad news.
Certainly a schock and so unexpected.

Even tho I only ever liked the period before Bad, I regonise his tallent and huge influence he had.
Sad he wasn't able to show what he is still capable of.

Good thoughts to his children and family.

Georgie Girl

Jun 26, 2009, 09:16 AM

i've been at work all night, any clues yet as to the cause of death?

VersusBatman

Jun 26, 2009, 09:20 AM

Asha

Jun 26, 2009, 09:52 AM

I spent most of last night on YouTube having my own Michael Jackson video marathon. Highly recommended. :cool1:

Awww, I watched some J5 last night on YouTube! It was fun!

MaccaGirl2891

Jun 26, 2009, 10:14 AM

Jaye's YouTube MJ video marathon starts TONIGHT!!!

Asha

Jun 26, 2009, 10:27 AM

Jaye's YouTube MJ video marathon starts TONIGHT!!!

Be sure to watch a little Jackson 5, too! They were crazy talented & Michael was so cute! :teeth1:

VersusBatman

Jun 26, 2009, 10:27 AM

I'm listening to Thriller right now.

beatlebangs1964

Jun 26, 2009, 12:11 PM

Whether one personally liked Michael or not, one can hardly ignore his contributions to the field of music! His music defined the 80s as much as the Beatles defined the 60s. It's part of history.

What is truly sad is that he's the guy who had it all and still didn't manage to find happiness.

Well put. I said all along that while I never cared for the King of Pop, the J5 or the Jacksons and I didn't like the way moonwalking looked at all, there is no doubt that MJ contributed greatly to the world of art/music.

A relative said, "He really was Peter Pan and Neverland was aptly named. He was not an adult and never had a chance to be a boy." I fully agree. That poor guy never got to play baseball with the kids or ride his bike in the neighborhood or attend school with his peers or have the usual boyhood experiences. His life was sacrificed, according to all accounts by their father at the altar of Performance, Practice and Perfection.

I still hope the best for the three children he raised.

Esmirelda

Jun 26, 2009, 01:15 PM

So sad and shocking. Michael was a child prodigy like Shirley Temple and the little girl (who's name I can't remember) that plays violin like a virtuoso. It was jaw dropping to see someone so young and so talented. I loved the J5. Such a big part of The Motown legacy.
His solo music was huge. Its rare that a child star can keep on achieving such success. Thriller was epic. My rocker friends laughed at me for liking MJ, but I didn't care. At the dance studio, everyone was Moon Walking. I still think it looks cool.
He seemed so sad. I think much of this was due to his own self-perfectionism and some negative public opinion. I never believed the allegations. The way that a big majority of the pubic came down on him and made jokes must have been (IMO) very hurtful for such a childlike and artistic soul.
I did, however, get a bit mad at him over The Beatles catalog.

RIP Michael. Prayers for your kids.

beatlebangs1964

Jun 26, 2009, 01:30 PM

I understand your feelings about the Beatles' catalog, Esmi.

I always thought MJ was a tragic figure. The allegations he had to live with in 1993 and 2003 cast shadows over his life and, as Harb (an MJ fan) has rightfully pointed out, we don't really know if those allegations are true. What I DO know is that there are people who set up public figures by making allegations with the idea of being paid lots of money to keep quiet. Whether or not this was the case, the point is we really don't know and I won't judge what I don't know.

Prayers for those three children. I hope wherever they are eventually situated will be an optimal choice for them.

Esmirelda

Jun 26, 2009, 02:05 PM

http://ladjevic.com/dusan/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/paul_mccartney_michael_jackson.jpg

From Paul's web site:
"It's so sad and shocking. I feel privileged to have hung out and worked with Michael. He was a massively talented boy man with a gentle soul. His music will be remembered forever and my memories of our time together will be happy ones.

I send my deepest sympathy to his mother and the whole family and to his countless fans all around the world."

VersusBatman

Jun 26, 2009, 04:18 PM

It's so sad he died before he could make his great comeback. He was so excited about it.

beatlelover45223

Jun 26, 2009, 06:41 PM

RIP Michael, I was a fan until about the McCartney time, then Michael started acting differently, lots more pressing things going on in my life, I do think he was a true artist, I am truly sorry to all his family/fans that are so sad right now!

beatlebangs1964

Jun 26, 2009, 09:10 PM

He was a talented artist and the end of a human life is always sad.

Hari's Chick

Jun 27, 2009, 12:35 AM

From Paul
"He was a massively talented boy man with a gentle soul.

Awww. Yeah, he seemed to be just that. In one Oprah interview he said he mostly just wanted "to be loved... for everyone to love me.."

I remember Paul taking him off saying, "Paul, I'm gonna buy your songs..." and Paul was teasing a bit about it. And I remember George speaking of him and smiling and saying, "Funny little fellow..."

VersusBatman

Jun 27, 2009, 06:09 AM

It's rather depressing to think about how lost he was. He never recovered from whatever happened to him as a child. The parody site The Onion posted an article saying that he died at the age of 12. In sense that was true.

beatlebangs1964

Jun 27, 2009, 09:54 AM

Yeah, it was. The poor guy never really got to mix with peers during his boyhood. He was Peter Pan, trapped in a suspended state of puerility.

Sad that the poor dude was scared of his own father. In one fairly recent interview, he said he had stomach pains whenever he knew Joseph was in the audience and he was truly afraid of the man. That was very sad.

A few years ago, a mini-series movie about MJ was aired and it was really quite good. Joseph was portrayed as a Simon Legree type of man and from all accounts that was an accurate description.

VersusBatman

Jun 27, 2009, 10:00 AM

I believe the other Jackson's said Joe beat them if they messed up a routine.

beatlebangs1964

Jun 27, 2009, 10:15 AM

They did. Joe sounded like the poster man for Simon Legree. Michael said he used to try to hide from him in the house when he was a boy.

He said he saw other children playing in parks and he wanted to join them, but was never allowed. It seems very a propos that he would name his own amusement park "Neverland."

VersusBatman

Jun 27, 2009, 10:23 AM

He was a cross between Mama Rose and Simon Legree. Which makes me wonder how his mother could have stood by and let him do that. But my guess is that she probably was raised to be submissive to her husband.

beatlebangs1964

Jun 27, 2009, 10:24 AM

She was probably afraid of him as well.

VersusBatman

Jun 27, 2009, 10:41 AM

Lisa Marie said that Michael told her he was afraid he would die just like her father. It's sad that his prediction came true.

One thing about Thriller, it's the only time I enjoy watching zombie's. I never liked zombie movies, but if they can dance then I'm there.

Hari's Chick

Jun 27, 2009, 12:32 PM

So sad. Yet he named both his children after his Mom and Dad. It is sad about his father's anger issues. Often it is the case that Joe may have been just parroting what he also experienced as a child. Remember back in Michael's youth we had not come out of the early 1900's mind set of "spare the rod, spoil the child."

There must have been a side of Michael which truly loved and respected both parents, to say he named his kids after them.

I hope he is at peace now. I believe he can see how he did not need to hide away, that people loved him. I think this way he must feel that love. I like to think of him bathed in awareness of this love and acceptance.

Right away my mind went to Elizabeth Taylor. :sad1: She is devastated. I pray for her, too.

"My heart... my mind... are broken," ... "I loved Michael with all my soul and I can't imagine life without him. We had so much in common and we had such loving fun together."

VersusBatman

Jun 27, 2009, 12:38 PM

I hope he is at peace now. I believe he can see how he did not need to hide away, that people loved him. I think this way he must feel that love. I like to think of him bathed in awareness of this love and acceptance.
I really believe Jesus held him in his arms.

Hari's Chick

Jun 27, 2009, 12:42 PM

I really believe Jesus held him in his arms.

That is so beautiful. I think so, too.

Lucy

Jun 27, 2009, 12:52 PM

Lisa Marie said that Michael told her he was afraid he would die just like her father. It's sad that his prediction came true.

I read her myspace blog where she said that. It was interesting - she writes a bit more about their relationship. It seems she is cut up about the fact that she didn't manage to "save" him the way that she wished she could have. Check it out, it is worth a read if you are interested.

Right away my mind went to Elizabeth Taylor. :sad1: She is devastated. I pray for her, too.

"My heart... my mind... are broken," ... "I loved Michael with all my soul and I can't imagine life without him. We had so much in common and we had such loving fun together."

Ooooh her statement is just heartbreaking, when they read it on the news last night it really got to me!!! The bit about the photo he gave her.....so sad! They were very close. I have read several reports that she went to the hospital with Michael's mother.

Magill

Jun 27, 2009, 01:44 PM

Yes. Michael was a tormented soul. I'm sure he is at peace now.

Lucy

Jun 27, 2009, 01:46 PM

Yeah Mags I am sure he is....but I think maybe even now, even though he is at peace, he might feel a little ticked off that he didn't get to do at least one of his come back shows! You know how much he LOVED his fans and the last thing he would want to do would be to let them down. I am sure the fans understand though that this wasn't exactly what he wanted to happen of course!
I hope he doesn't feel that way!!!

Lucy

Jun 27, 2009, 01:48 PM

By the way, I got a message from ticketmaster to say that i need to retain my proof of purchase for refund purposes. Sad.

VersusBatman

Jun 27, 2009, 04:55 PM

I just had a thought. Michael is up in heaven with Ryan White. :)

MaccaGirl2891

Jun 27, 2009, 06:20 PM

Aw, Ryan White was from Indiana, too. :)

You know, I think that Michael's dad killed him. Not in the physical sense, but the majority of what he did. Just my opinion.

beatlebangs1964

Jun 27, 2009, 09:05 PM

Many would agree, MG.

VB and Hari's Chick, what you wrote is beautiful.

Hari's Chick

Jun 27, 2009, 09:42 PM

http://www.examiner.com/x-11564-Fort-Worth-Healthy-Living-Examiner~y2009m6d27-Michael-Jackson-and-vitiligo-What-you-should-know

:cry2:

scouseofdistinction

Jun 27, 2009, 11:17 PM

Tonight, I just got done watching a documentary on Michael Jackson. It portrayed his life, but I especially enjoyed the one that revolved around and focused upon his music. I never realized how much he did contribute towards the music world. He made a record on the charts with many number ones, one after the other, he was the first black artist to have a music video aired on MTV which also helps demonstrate how much he altered and contributed to music videos as a whole, he invented a new dance style, and he was able to reach to a huge fan base of all ethnic backgrounds all over the world! Never did I imagine he did have a thing called "Michaelmania."

I'll admit I am in awe. The man truly did earn his title as the King of Pop, and after seeing that video, I feel bad that I didn't really recognize how amazing his music career really was...until now.

It's always a shame that people realize this once it is too late...

lennonluvr9

Jun 28, 2009, 06:38 AM

I havent been around yet to put in my two cents. I cant call myself a fan of Michael's but I do like a few of his songs. And I cant deny that he wasnt talented and that he had a major influence. I will say hearing about his death was surprising, to say the least. It was just so unexpected.

Mccartneyluvr

Jun 28, 2009, 07:13 AM

I've been watching his videos on VH1 off and on all day. No matter how you felt about his personal life, there is no denying the man was a talented musician and could move like no one else.

oldbeatlechick

Jun 28, 2009, 07:31 AM

Michael was a very talented guy with his dancing, choreography, music and lyrics. I remember seeing him at Wembley on his Dangerous tour in 1992.

JonnyLytnin

Jun 28, 2009, 11:30 AM

Rest in Peace to the King of Pop.

I never was a fan of Michael's but I like enough of his stuff to buy a greatest hits collection. Certainly a strange guy, but accounts by those who were allowed to be close with him say that he was as normal a guy that they knew. I'm mixed on my feelings re: the kiddy touching but since there were no witnesses and he was never convicted I'll presume he was innocent and let God be the judge in the end.

His vocal and dancing talent are undeniable though and truly he has a claim to third place in the pantheon of music, right under The Beatles and Elvis.

Hari's Chick

Jun 28, 2009, 12:20 PM

Lucy

Jun 28, 2009, 02:55 PM

You know, I think that Michael's dad killed him. Not in the physical sense, but the majority of what he did. Just my opinion.

For me the person I think that has a lot to answer for is that smug nasty piece of work Martin Bashir. I cannot stand him and what he did to Michael was just awful.

beatlebangs1964

Jun 28, 2009, 08:01 PM

beatlebangs1964

Jun 28, 2009, 08:17 PM

On a slightly tangential note - what is the current status with Neverland? The place was raided in 2006 and, I believe shut down. What has happened with the elaborate equipment and the property?

JonnyLytnin

Jun 28, 2009, 10:12 PM

-From Wikipedia re: Neverland Ranch-

"On November 11, 2008 Jackson transferred the title to Sycamore Valley Ranch Company LLC, and neighbors reported immediate activity on the property including removal of the amusement rides. Jackson still owned an unknown stake in the property, since Sycamore Valley Ranch was a joint venture between Jackson (represented by attorney L. Londell McMillan) and an affiliate of Colony Capital LLC (an investment company run by billionaire Thomas Barrack, Jr). The Santa Barbara County Assessor's Office stated Jackson sold an unknown proportion of his property rights for $35 million. The singer said he no longer considered the ranch a home, feeling the 70 police officers had "violated" it in their searches following allegations of sexual misconduct."

Hari's Chick

Jun 28, 2009, 10:46 PM

I like Dr. Deepak Chopra and have unflagging respect for him.

Me too. Deepak is such a classy man and always offers so much insight.

Tonight I just watched an old Maury expose on Martin Bashir's documentary show on Michael. I have not seen the Bashir documentary, but Maury contrasts the Bashir documentary with footage of behind the scenes- from Michael's camera people. Two very different stories were told. For instance, Bashir (behind the scenes) will praise Michael at length.... then in his documentary he will assert the exact opposite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvhwWDCV9Bo

It is a nine or ten part show.

mari

Jun 29, 2009, 01:51 AM

He was such a huge part of my childhood.

"Mikajakson" was one of my first words actually.

He's the reason I'm so into music. I've always given him credit for that.

My brother called me Thursday night to tell me, but I knew I had a very busy weekend ahead of me so all I could say was "I cannot deal with that right now."

I still haven't.

Lucy

Jun 29, 2009, 05:39 AM

I like Dr. Deepak Chopra and have unflagging respect for him.

Actually, Lucy, I see it differently. I did not see Bashir as smug or nasty. I saw him as a serious reporter contending with answers and issues and behavior that are, gently put unique.

I did not see Bashir doing anything to Michael -- rather it was Michael himself who admitted to behavior such as the bedtime with kids which most people would find....well, odd. It was Michael in his own words and actions, such as that shopping spree among other things that reflected on himself, his "man in the mirror" and not what anyone else said or did. Bashir was reporting and responding. That was my take on it.

The 2002 interview with Martin Bashir was aired again tonight. I actually felt sorry for poor Martin Bashir both times I saw the interview because it was plain he felt he was in the company of madness.

MJ told him he did NOT have repeat plastic surgeries - he only stopped at his nose. (There is reason to doubt that). He swore up and down that he was the children's natural father, but that has since been disproved. Poor Martin Bashir had his head in his hands, just groaning.

Then there was the scene where MJ dangled the baby over the balcony. I think that is sick, sorry. And dangerous.

Add to it MJ's assertion that letting kids share his bed was perfectly okay and that he just "tucks them in" and "plays a little music" and gives them milk and cookies. I think most people would question any grown man allowing kids to share his bed and for choosing the company of kids instead of peers. Martin Bashir certainly challenged this.

BB I don't agree (surprise surprise!).

The way that film was edited was just horrific and although MJ made some revealations that many of us would think were bizarre, Martin Bashir DID deceive him. And that really really made things very difficult from then on for Michael.

I'm not sure if you have seen the uncut version that was screened after the original one where footage was shown of Michael and Martin talking after Martin's cameras had stopped. Michael had his own camera going and Martin was aware of this. In case you haven't seen this footage, Martin sits there raving on to Michael about how he is a greatest father and it brings a tear to his eye when he sees him with his kids because his love for them is so huge - that is during the LAST interview and in his edited version, that was meant to be the big confrontation interview.

Furthermore there is footage of him assuring Michael that he is going to show how he really is and that he himself is in disbelief that MJ has never been portrayed in a fair way. He tells him that he thinks what he does for children at Neverland is amazing and so spiritual and lovely and it is unfair that no one has showed that lovely generous side of him before.

So after all that ass kissing, why did he go on and make it look like Michael was a paedo loon - and HE did that, not MJ himself. He had all those voice overs about how "disturbed" he was about it and his "grave concerns" about children visiting yet he had sat there and told Michael how lovely he thought it was that he did that.

So look, whether or not he was genuinely feeling that way, he lied to Michael. He lulled him into a false sense of security.

The plastic surgery thing - okay look i have to agree, if he only in fact had 2 operations and they were both on just his nose, that is pretty incredible since he looks so different. But also cut out of the edited show was a very long and detailed discussion they had about his surgery and treatment following his accident in the early 80s when he was burnt. During that segment (of course left out of the edited version) Michael talked about further surgeries he had had. As an aside, I read to day in the leaked autopsy report that it appeared from scarring that he had had up to 13 operations on his face. It all makes me feel so sad.

And yeah most people would question "any" grown man tucking children into bed and giving them cookies and warm milk. Well, I would hope that they would anyway! But this wasn't just "any" man. This was a guy who had had no childhood of his own and had lived the rest of his life in a strange reality. From age 6 he was working hard and shortly after that he was a household name. He was abused by his father and worked to the bone. He was deeply disturbed. So really, as strange as it may seem that he would want to do that, I think it starts to make sense. I think it is really really sad. And I think that it is difficult to argue with that and say something like "well if there was a 44 year old man down the road that was friendly with kids, would you let your kids stay over" because the dodgy guy down the road wouldn't be a megastar of Jackson proportions. There is no comparison to make to the life that he knew and had.

I think this is a personal thing really because some of us might think one thing about him and some of us another. But I firmly believe that he was set up and taken for a ride my Bashir. And Bashir is a terrible reporter in my opinion. Anything I have watched that he has done has sucked - before and after that. I haven't seen or heard anything from him for a long time thank goodness. He is the ultimate in journo scum in my opinion.

I am upset to know that it was screened again the other night following his death. It did nothing for him in life but hurt him so to have it playing again following his death is a bit insensitive I think. I know the interest is out there but I still don't like that.

I wasn't aware that it had been proved that the kids weren't Michael's. I heard that Debbie Rowe came out and told that to news of the world yesterday but I thought that was probably made up. I don't want to be ignorant and say "they don't look like him therefore they aren't his" but on the other hand, anything is possible isn't it!

Lucy

Jun 29, 2009, 05:41 AM

Tonight I just watched an old Maury expose on Martin Bashir's documentary show on Michael. I have not seen the Bashir documentary, but Maury contrasts the Bashir documentary with footage of behind the scenes- from Michael's camera people. Two very different stories were told. For instance, Bashir (behind the scenes) will praise Michael at length.... then in his documentary he will assert the exact opposite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvhwWDCV9Bo

It is a nine or ten part show.

YES this is what i was just ranting on about! Thanks HC!

Worth a watch if you have seen the Bashir version.

hibgal

Jun 29, 2009, 06:24 AM

And yeah most people would question "any" grown man tucking children into bed and giving them cookies and warm milk. Well, I would hope that they would anyway!

Surprise, surprise - I don't agree! :teeth1: I call this gender stereotyping, sorry. If it was a WOMAN who took a bunch of kids, tucked them into her bed and gave them cookies & milk, nobody would've raised an eyebrow. Why raise one when a man embraces his nurturing side? It's as possible that a woman is a pedophile as a man, surely?

Also, Michael was a younger child in a large family. Probably the children shared beds. I know my mom, who's the 7th of 10 children, used to sleep in the same bed as her younger brother and sister until she was 15. To this day she finds it difficult to sleep alone. If that's how Michael grew up, bet sometimes he felt real lonely in his big bed, and wanted somebody around for human comfort and I don't mean for sex. Kids would offer unconditional warmth and fellowship without the sexual aspect. They would give rather than take. Is it so strange if he wanted that?

I find many things about Michael Jackson's life and actions disturbing but this has never been one of them.

OzBeatleFan

Jun 29, 2009, 06:41 AM

Like a few other posters on this thread, I would not consider myself a fan of Michael's but I do enjoy listening to his 80's stuff.

I was shocked to hear of his death as he was someone I grew up with and someone you would think would always be around. I guess this is one of those times where you will always remember where you were when you heard the news.

My sympathies go out his children, family and his many fans around the world.

RIP Michael. I hope you have found your happiness at last.:heart1::music2:

Lucy

Jun 29, 2009, 06:49 AM

Surprise, surprise - I don't agree! :teeth1: I call this gender stereotyping, sorry. If it was a WOMAN who took a bunch of kids, tucked them into her bed and gave them cookies & milk, nobody would've raised an eyebrow. Why raise one when a man embraces his nurturing side? It's as possible that a woman is a pedophile as a man, surely?

Also, Michael was a younger child in a large family. Probably the children shared beds. I know my mom, who's the 7th of 10 children, used to sleep in the same bed as her younger brother and sister until she was 15. To this day she finds it difficult to sleep alone. If that's how Michael grew up, bet sometimes he felt real lonely in his big bed, and wanted somebody around for human comfort and I don't mean for sex. Kids would offer unconditional warmth and fellowship without the sexual aspect. They would give rather than take. Is it so strange if he wanted that?

I find many things about Michael Jackson's life and actions disturbing but this has never been one of them.

No hib I'm not stereotyping here sorry. I was simply responding directly to BB's regarding this subject. I did not intend to imply that men only would arose suspicion should they hang around children adn i am surprised that you would jump to the conclusion that I am being in effect sexist.
Man or woman, i don't care either way. I was using the example of a man because we are in fact talking about a man here so it made more sense to do so.

Don't read too much into what I say! Or don't say in this case.

And I also actually said that although I think it can be seen as unusal behaviour, I can understand why he did it. So no, I personally don't find this aspect at all disturbing. What the gist of my reply was was that I think it STINKS that Bashir made Michael think that he didn't think it was disturbing either by the way he kissed up to him during the scenes he didn't show on his edited cut.

VersusBatman

Jun 29, 2009, 10:00 AM

Deepak spoke about Michael here. He was close to Michael and I believe this is one of the most touching things I have watched.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/vp/31574845#31574845

I think this interview with Deepak address some really important issues. He is an insightful man and deep feeling man.
How sad. As if Michael didn't have low self esteem already. I remember how he told Oprah that his father called him ugly when he got acne and it distressed him so much he washed his face in the dark so he wouldn't have to look at his face.

Michael felt so betrayed by Martin Bashir's documentary.

FPSHOT

Jun 29, 2009, 11:05 AM

Michael felt so betrayed by Martin Bashir's documentary.

but most of the world ignored it. I see it back in many posts here...a few days after a man died...gossip...glossy behaviour

I watched the documentary which HC posted about.

The response to the Bashir 'interview'

Shocking to see even here people write about their so called impressions about Michael.

About his skin, about kids, about his own kids, about Berlin. People judge without knowledge. And in a horible way only a few days after Michael passed. It freaks me out to see that here.

Maybe watch this reacting documentary. It may make those get a different opinion and say "yeah...what a shame how things were said about him" without knowing...without reality... without truth...but to please the hungry public in need for gossip.

It is an eye opener which obviously has been not much for the usual gossip crowd who do not like Michael because....they read things...

There have been shown quite a few the past days on TV in England, Belgium, Holland, observations based on insight and not glossery and I am not saying they are the only true ones, absolutely not, but to see how the Bashir report was manipulated is just one example and also so many other stories about Michael.

I wrote somewhere else a few days ago saying "was he ever happy? ""

Having seen what HC posted I am even sorry I said that and what he said about it reminded me of George in a way

He said "of course I was happy...of course... but only inside the gates"

His wife who gave hom his two kids said "I could not handle that life, I wanted to be able to go to to ther grocer" and the public judged her for dojng what she did based on.,... non awareness

Asha

Jun 29, 2009, 11:13 AM

No matter how you felt about his personal life, there is no denying the man was a talented musician and could move like no one else.

Nicely put, MsB!

Lucy

Jun 29, 2009, 11:30 AM

but most of the world ignored it. I see it back in many posts here...a few days after a man died...gossip...glossy behaviour

I watched the documentary which HC posted about.

The response to the Bashir 'interview'

Shocking to see even here people write about their so called impressions about Michael.

About his skin, about kids, about his own kids, about Berlin. People judge without knowledge. And in a horible way only a few days after Michael passed. It freaks me out to see that here.

Maybe watch this reacting documentary. It may make those get a different opinion and say "yeah...what a shame how things were said about him" without knowing...without reality... without truth...but to please the hungry public in need for gossip.

It is an eye opener which obviously has been not much for the usual gossip crowd who do not like Michael because....they read things...

There have been shown quite a few the past days on TV in England, Belgium, Holland, observations based on insight and not glossery and I am not saying they are the only true ones, absolutely not, but to see how the Bashir report was manipulated is just one example and also so many other stories about Michael.

I wrote somewhere else a few days ago saying "was he ever happy? ""

Having seen what HC posted I am even sorry I said that and what he said about it reminded me of George in a way

He said "of course I was happy...of course... but only inside the gates"

His wife who gave hom his two kids said "I could not handle that life, I wanted to be able to go to to ther grocer" and the public judged her for dojng what she did based on.,... non awareness

Thanks for that post FPSHOT. I am so pleased to read that.

I am in agreement with all but one thing you have said....most of the world didn't ignore that show. And even if most of the world ignored it, it was THAT show that stirred up all the trouble with that second accusation of absuse against Michael. It is because of THAT show that there was the investigation and then the accusation. That show was what the prosecutor had been waiting for.

Also, even if most of the world had ignored it, the pain and humiliation it caused for Michael was horrific.

Perhaps now with the passage of time it has been in the most part forgotten - until now. But I remember for MONTHS at the time people going on and on about it - the fact that he had the pet name of Blanket for the baby, the fact that he hugged and kissed his fans, the fact that he got in his own lighting expert and also that he confessed to only 2 operations and dropped several million dollars on one shopping trip. and that's not even to mention the non-stop talk about him and children that he befriended. What the HELL is any of that to anyone else? Okay so he allowed that film to be taken but he was told that it was to be a balanced and true product. Hey, at least if Bashir had been rude to him about his lifestyle right then and there in person, he would have known what to expect from the show.

Michael had allowed that man into his house and had agreed to show him his life thinking that it would be a fair representation of his life since that is what he had promised. And that is why it disgusts me so much to know that at this time, in the wake of his passing, that load of crap is getting airtime.

But yeah, I am pleased to read that some of you too felt totally disgusted at that and particularly when seeing the footage that the other show that has the stuff that Bashir said to him about how great he thought he was when on his own tapes he was slagging him off and presenting him as a criminal.

I'm not sure how much the out-of-Europe members know about Martin Bashir but this was not the first time he totally deceived and let down someone he interviewed. He thinks he is a hot shot because he interviewed Princess Diana when she confessed to cheating on Prince Charles. Maybe that gave him some inflated sense of self importance and that teamed with a dirty-journo attitude, he perhaps felt like he didn't care about the PEOPLE he was dealing with. The other really awful example is Joanne Lees. She is the British girl who was nearly raped and murdered in the Australian outback. Her boyfriend was murdered and they never recovered his body. It was a terrible and very drawn out case for those of you that don't know about it. Anyway, Martin Bashir saw a way in to a BIG story so befriended Joanne's sick mother and started visiting her and talking to her. Joanne's mother thought he was such a charming gentleman that eventually she introduced him to Joanne. He then convinced Joanne and her mother that giving him an exclusive interview was what she should do - there had been ridiculous speculation that she was somehow involved in this murder of her boyfriend and he said that in speaking to him, people would see the real Joanne. Anyway after a lot of bullying, she finally decided to go ahead and speak to him for a thing on TV over here after keeping her silence for a long time. And what did he do? That's right - he made HER look and feel like the criminal. She said in her autobiography that agreeing to speaking with him was one of her biggest regrets of the entire aftermath of her ordeal. Just as one of Uri Gellar's biggest regrets was intorducing Martin Bashir to Michael Jackson.

So yeah, there's a bit of background for you as to why I cannot stand that guy.

hibgal

Jun 29, 2009, 11:43 AM

i am surprised that you would jump to the conclusion that I am being in effect sexist.

I didn't jump there - I was gently lead! :wink2: And, yeah, I DID think it an odd stance for you to take. Glad we just talked past each other! :thumbu1:

VersusBatman

Jun 29, 2009, 11:43 AM

Lucy

Jun 29, 2009, 12:02 PM

I didn't jump there - I was gently lead! :wink2: And, yeah, I DID think it an odd stance for you to take. Glad we just talked past each other! :thumbu1:

umm I think rather than talking past each other, this is a bit of a misunderstanding. I'm not taking nor did I take a particular stance on whether or not men or women are more likely to be weird if they put children to bed with milk and cookies or whatever it is you think i was getting at....i was simply answering to a direct point that BB had made and that point involved a male. So ummm no stance taken for you to think was odd!!!

But if you're glad, I am too!

VersusBatman

Jun 29, 2009, 12:24 PM

Some say the 70's and 80's have officially died, but we still have Madonna.

Hari's Chick

Jun 29, 2009, 12:37 PM

That's what I'm referring to as to why Michael felt betrayed.

Yes, I even read- whether is it true or not I do not know- but one doctor claims to have visited Michael at his home the night after the Bashir interview was broadcast. This doctor said he was called in by Michael's brother because Michael was so upset by the broadcast, he took a morphine overdose. :sad1:

I think Michael was innocent of the worst of the charges levied against him.

As for the other "charges"... like the plastic surgery... I honestly do not understand why this is an issue for anyone. I do not personally care if he had a million plastic surgeries, same goes for Cher, who people also love to pick on for it, also. It is their body, their money... their desires, priorities, motivations.

In the behind the scenes footage with Bashir Michael also says he only had his nose worked on... and he says "two times... I think.." and he looks like he is trying to remember. Maybe that is hard to remember for him because he had several skin grafts after the burning incident. And what if he had work done and did not like it... it can take them several visits perhaps to get things in a way he would like. So what? He is basically trapped in his house, God bless him for wanting to pass a mirror and like what he sees.

In the interview Bashir asks him if he ever does anything right and Michael says, "No....nooo...." and explains how someone will always critisize you, "some mean person.." :cry2:

How different Michael's life would have been if it had been explained about his vitiligo (I did not know about this, only that he had some mystery illness), about his skin grafts from the Pepsi commerical burning, and had left him the dignity of asserting two nose jobs only... because Michael was shy, too, and may be simply embarrassed to admit more work. How much compassion would it have taken to give him that? What good did it do to pose as "ferriting out the truth behind the plastic surgery?" What good has the world taken away from "probing journalism" with no point?... and with more deception than truth?

Why could Bashir and others have listened to Michael about the things he loved and cherished and shown his good heart? Because that does not sell.

It is tragic.

Hari's Chick

Jun 29, 2009, 12:41 PM

Maybe watch this reacting documentary. It may make those get a different opinion and say "yeah...what a shame how things were said about him" without knowing...without reality... without truth...but to please the hungry public in need for gossip.

It is an eye opener which obviously has been not much for the usual gossip crowd who do not like Michael because....they read things...

It reminds me of the Caterpillar Pillar, an old book... people climbing on those high up to try to 'see better'... and there was nothing to see.

Having seen what HC posted I am even sorry I said that and what he said about it reminded me of George in a way

He said "of course I was happy...of course... but only inside the gates"

Me, too... exactly so... I instantly thought of George, too.

mari

Jun 29, 2009, 01:31 PM

Where there is love, I'll be there.
KT-H5eSQ-1U

J5 meets The Beatles
1VIPd_j_LOI

beatlebangs1964

Jun 29, 2009, 06:45 PM

I did not see the unedited Bashir interview and Lucy makes good valid points in her posts.

It is good to get different perspectives as that is the way to learn things.

I like to play fair - not accusing or jumping to conclusions until I know for sure. As for the allegations that hounded MJ from 1993 to the present, I kept saying that since we [the public] don't know, don't accuse. He may have been perfectly innocent and just wanted to, albeit understandably move on with his career and life.

It is not uncommon for famous people to be entrapped. Sports figures especially are warned not to go off with women they don't know lest someone cry rape and ruin his reputation on a trumped up charge. Whether or not the charges are true, they tarnish a person's reputation and leave questions in the minds of others for the remanider of their lives. That is unfortunate.

I had a relative who worked with the NBA who related many such incidents and the advice he gave is quite sound - never go anywhere or knowingly put yourself in a position where someone could make an unproven claim against you. In other words, play it smart and safe and if you do decide to go off with someone you don't know, make very good and sure you have at least one witness to verify that nothing untoward took place.

I did feel sorry for MJ - the poor guy was denied a boyhood; he had a Simon Legree type father who constantly criticized his looks and hurt his esteem and when the J5 were on Ed Sullivan in 1969, it was sad to me that they were dressed like little pimps. It was sad to see these kids pushed into an adult world they may not have been ready for. They were entitled to their boyhoods.

VersusBatman

Jun 29, 2009, 07:42 PM

Now my son is obsessed with Michael. He keeps an article on his death in his room and stares at it. I have a feeling his Spongebob drawings will be doing the Moonwalk.

FPSHOT

Jun 29, 2009, 08:59 PM

I am in agreement with all but one thing you have said....most of the world didn't ignore that show. And even if most of the world ignored it, it was THAT show that stirred up all the trouble with that second accusation of absuse against Michael. It is because of THAT show that there was the investigation and then the accusation. That show was what the prosecutor had been waiting for.

Ok time to explain better then. What I mean is that now, the past days, remarks pass by for instance here at Links which are so much based on non-awareness. Not even from the Bashir show how it was presented by him. I don't mean to say I know it all btw, but it makes it so glossy and disrespectful.

I remember how it was a big thing back then yes, of course. We even discussed it here to length.

And that is why it disgusts me so much to know that at this time, in the wake of his passing, that load of crap is getting airtime.

yes. Even here a TV station showed it last Saturday and appologized the next day because they had meant to show part 2.

I'm not sure how much the out-of-Europe members know about Martin Bashir but this was not the first time he totally deceived and let down someone he interviewed. He thinks he is a hot shot because he interviewed Princess Diana when she confessed to cheating on Prince Charles. Maybe that gave him some inflated sense of self importance

I saw that one and was amazed by all the things Lady Di told. The Guardian called it the greatest interview of all times.

The other really awful example is Joanne Lees.

Yeah that was a horror story what he did there.

FPSHOT

Jun 29, 2009, 09:05 PM

How different Michael's life would have been if it had been explained about his vitiligo (I did not know about this, only that he had some mystery illness), about his skin grafts from the Pepsi commerical burning, and had left him the dignity of asserting two nose jobs only... because Michael was shy, too, and may be simply embarrassed to admit more work.

I thought of that as well when you posted that. So odd that that about the vitiligo got so little attention. I know another artists who has it and that was highlighted. Not in the right press, but still..

What good did it do to pose as "ferriting out the truth behind the plastic surgery?" What good has the world taken away from "probing journalism" with no point?... and with more deception than truth?

yeah, even here I see remarks about his skin issue and about plastic surgery as if he is the only one who did it? Yes he did look 'different' in his last years which of course leads to thoughts, but when one knows the background like the vitiligo and the fire, one would maybe not judge so hard.

Many things Michael says for instance in the Bashir interview, like one reason why he likes kids and chimps so much is because they do not judge and critisize him, make all the judgemental stories look so stupid huh..

beatlelover45223

Jun 29, 2009, 09:55 PM

I'll admit I am in awe. The man truly did earn his title as the King of Pop, and after seeing that video, I feel bad that I didn't really recognize how amazing his music career really was...until now.

Correction, Michael was the self-proclaimed King of Pop, he bestowed that title on himself, that is not to knock his accomplishments or his talent, I used to be a fan........

beatlelover45223

Jun 29, 2009, 10:25 PM

I agree with what most have posted about Bashir, he had his own agenda and it was not MJ"s interest, Martin was looking for more publicity for himself! It seems he likes to interview those that are very vulnerable and exploit them for his own advancement.....

Hari's Chick

Jun 30, 2009, 12:05 AM

This is very interesting... I believe we are truly searching for the transcendent and often find it most profoundly through music, often secular music with the message of love.

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/deepak_chopra/2009/06/the_spirituality_of_michael_jackson.html?hpid=talk box1

Michael Jackson and the God Feeling
by Deepak Chopra

In startling ways pop culture mirrors long-standing spiritual arguments. In an age where the stage has replaced the pulpit -- where the line between the two is all but invisible -- morality is played out in the lives of celebrities. This is an unsettling phenomenon. Princess Diana slips into the role of Holy Mother almost equal with Mother Teresa. Michael Jackson's call to "Heal the World" in a pop song spreads to every corner of the planet and probably touches more people than the Pope's annual Christmas message.

With the sudden, sad death of Michael Jackson, whom I knew well for twenty years, a specific point of theology comes to life and haunts us. I'm thinking of Manichaeism, a Gnostic doctrine born in Persia in the third century, whose central idea is "the struggle between a good, spiritual world of light, and an evil, material world of darkness," as the Wikipedia entry puts it. Manichaeism pictured the destiny of the world, and each soul, in terms of black versus white, and so potent is the idea that it has permeated race relations, cultural divides, wars, and the whole tendency to demonize "them," those people who are different from us and therefore exist outside the light.

It's hard not to see Michael Jackson as a pop martyr to this kind of either/or thinking. His hit song, "Black or White," insisted that "it don't matter if you're black or white," something he deeply believed in. His skin changed from black to white because of vitiligo, but the public and press mistinterpreted this as a conscious attempt to change his skin and took it as the mark of someone who didn't know what world he belonged in. But I don't want to trade in symbols. As a real person, Michael struggled between extremes, and his vulnerability to the shadow side of human nature was very poignant. The tabloids consigned him to the dark side via cheap, sensationalized stories that verged on the ghoulish (stories he fed with behavior that flirted far too much with transgressive behavior). But the other aspect of Manichaeism was also there, an evangelical desire to bring light and healing to the whole world. The paradox of how one person could be so innocent and so disturbing at the same time remains a mystery.

I began to ponder Michael's nature after I received an e-mail that pointed to "the transcendent feeling he inspired in so many people with his music and his dancing. There was almost a religious, ritualistic feeling to it. He seemed to be in another zone when he was performing and took others with him." I agree, but the wider phenomenon is the "God feeling" communicated to millions of people through pop culture. Princess Diana played a key part, as Bono and Sting still do, as Live Aid concerts do. A transient mass communion substitutes for the traditional communion offered in church; a global feeling of oneness transcends the unity of small religious communities.

The flaws in this God feeling are obvious. It doesn't last. Strangers are brought together for a moment, usually through mass media, only to return to being strangers once the moment is gone. The message being communicated is far simpler than the doctrines and dogmas of organized faiths. All of which can make the God feeling seem superficial and sentimental. Did Michael Jackson really heal the world in any meaningful sense? Did it help Princess Diana to be elevated to saintly status when in reality her private life contained more than its share of trouble, confusion, and turmoil?

None of us are in a position to say. Communion is an actual phenomenon, however, and without it, we would feel much more alone and divided. In Afghanistan a pop talent show known as "Afghan Star" is watched by half the country's population. On the surface it looks like any other imitation of "American Idol," until you learn that this show is the most important vehicle for warring tribes and divisive religious traditions to view each other in peace. Via TV entertainment, "they" don't look as dark and ominous to "us." One is reminded that pop communion may, in fact, be the only kind that doesn't exclude anybody. The God feeling is important just because it isn't bound by doctrine and dogma. No one is outside the fold. When an audience lights candles and sways to "Heal the World," a space is created where nobody is unholy, no religion can exercise its imaginary exclusive patent on the true God. To the extent that Michael inspired such a feeling, he healed his own demons and ours, if only for an hour.

In some way that merges psychology and faith, Michael Jackson did play out the ancient split between dark and light; he was deliberately Manichean in his dangerous game with the media but also deeply divided. I come away feeling deeply distressed that he was imprisoned by a theological idea that has caused so much damage and distortion over the centuries. There is no cosmic war between dark and light, as I see it. Only one reality exists, and it's the human mind that judges and categorizes. We blow our own manmade suffering into grandiose cosmic schemes, and then we bow down and worship effigies to our own self-judgment. But that's an argument for another day. Today I linger on the rare thing that Michael accomplished. He inspired the God feeling in millions of people, and even amidst the grief at his sad undoing, a remembrance of that feeling comes through.

**********

FPSHOT

Jun 30, 2009, 02:54 AM

This is very interesting... I believe we are truly searching for the transcendent and often find it most profoundly through music, often secular music with the message of love.

it's never easy to describe feelings about Deepak's writings in just less than a day. It takes time to let it sink in and still I just wanna give a first reactionn to this

It is amazing how again Princess Diana shows up in this and I do recognise that.

I'm thinking of Manichaeism, a Gnostic doctrine born in Persia in the third century, whose central idea is "the struggle between a good, spiritual world of light, and an evil, material world of darkness," as the Wikipedia entry puts it. Manichaeism pictured the destiny of the world, and each soul, in terms of black versus white, and so potent is the idea that it has permeated race relations, cultural divides, wars, and the whole tendency to demonize "them," those people who are different from us and therefore exist outside the light.

I am reading a book about the history of Persia and what this says here again points out how interesting it is how things are put in words centuries ago in that ancient culture and still are so much 'today'. It is beautiful.

It's hard not to see Michael Jackson as a pop martyr to this kind of either/or thinking. His hit song, "Black or White," insisted that "it don't matter if you're black or white," something he deeply believed in.

a song with so much power and he had quite a few of these.

His skin changed from black to white because of vitiligo, but the public and press mistinterpreted this as a conscious attempt to change his skin and took it as the mark of someone who didn't know what world he belonged in. But I don't want to trade in symbols.

it's good to have again this highlighted, I think. I admit I didn't know about the vitiligo back then till later, cause you read the headlines and one just not get in to every musician's biography, I believe.

But the other aspect of Manichaeism was also there, an evangelical desire to bring light and healing to the whole world. The paradox of how one person could be so innocent and so disturbing at the same time remains a mystery.

there must be something left to learn about maybe at some point.
People can be both innocent and disturbing at times, I see myself, I see stories about for instance George from Tom, Olivia and Ravi showing up and can come up with many more examples...can't we all? Do we have to lable it to something? Nah...

He seemed to be in another zone when he was performing and took others with him."

when you see his concerts, it is just totally different from..well.. most?

In Afghanistan a pop talent show known as "Afghan Star" is watched by half the country's population. On the surface it looks like any other imitation of "American Idol," until you learn that this show is the most important vehicle for warring tribes and divisive religious traditions to view each other in peace.

little off topic but yes I have read about that a while ago...amazing?????

I come away feeling deeply distressed that he was imprisoned by a theological idea that has caused so much damage and distortion over the centuries. There is no cosmic war between dark and light, as I see it. Only one reality exists, and it's the human mind that judges and categorizes. We blow our own manmade suffering into grandiose cosmic schemes, and then we bow down and worship effigies to our own self-judgment. But that's an argument for another day. Today I linger on the rare thing that Michael accomplished. He inspired the God feeling in millions of people, and even amidst the grief at his sad undoing, a remembrance of that feeling comes through.

I have read so much from Deepak and use it in my work and again this what he writes here is eye-opening and feels so good.

Thanks HC :smile1: ((((((((HUGS)))))))))

beatlebangs1964

Jun 30, 2009, 05:03 PM

As for the other "charges"... like the plastic surgery... I honestly do not understand why this is an issue for anyone. I do not personally care if he had a million plastic surgeries, same goes for Cher, who people also love to pick on for it, also. It is their body, their money... their desires, priorities, motivations.

His surgeries are his business and his doctors' business as well. You are right - it is his prerogative to have the surgeries and if he felt better about his appearance, then more power to him.

In the behind the scenes footage with Bashir Michael also says he only had his nose worked on... and he says "two times... I think.." and he looks like he is trying to remember. Maybe that is hard to remember for him because he had several skin grafts after the burning incident. And what if he had work done and did not like it... it can take them several visits perhaps to get things in a way he would like. So what? He is basically trapped in his house, God bless him for wanting to pass a mirror and like what he sees.

He did start with the man in the mirror all right and let's hope he ended up liking what he saw. I never saw the behind the scenes footage with Martin Bashir in 2002 - I didn't even know about any of that until this thread.

In the interview Bashir asks him if he ever does anything right and Michael says, "No....nooo...." and explains how someone will always criticize you, "some mean person.." :cry2: devil's radio.

How different Michael's life would have been if it had been explained about his vitiligo (I did not know about this, only that he had some mystery illness), about his skin grafts from the Pepsi commerical burning, and had left him the dignity of asserting two nose jobs only... because Michael was shy, too, and may be simply embarrassed to admit more work. How much compassion would it have taken to give him that? What good did it do to pose as "ferriting out the truth behind the plastic surgery?" What good has the world taken away from "probing journalism" with no point?... and with more deception than truth?

Hari's Chick, as usual you speak gems of wisdom. Compassion IS what makes this world worthwhile. And so what about the man's plastic surgeries? No doubt he had his own good reasons for the operations and if they helped his esteem and improved the quality of his life, then that is all to the good.

Why could Bashir and others have listened to Michael about the things he loved and cherished and shown his good heart? Because that does not sell.

It is tragic.

Yeah, why does being a bastard sell and being a good person often get overlooked? I never understood that at all.

62hofner

Jun 30, 2009, 09:14 PM

VersusBatman

Jun 30, 2009, 09:33 PM

With most celebrities, I never paid attention when they got any plastic surgery. Even Joan Rivers. But one day I saw a picture of Michael on a tabloid back in 2002-03 and I gasped out loud. I couldn't believe what I saw. I thought that maybe the tabloid doctored the picture so that it looked like his nose was almost gone, but i looked him up on a legitimate site and it was real.

I don't think it made me a bad person to have that reaction.

Oh and in case anyone is curious, here is what happened to Bubbles the chimp.

http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=108680&catid=8

FPSHOT

Jul 01, 2009, 12:12 AM

On Yoko Ono's official website, Imagine Peace, Yoko has put up a statement on the death of Michael Jackson.

The site features a large picture of a very young Jackson and these words:

Michael Jackson, RIP

With his enormous talent, Michael kept giving us power, inspiration and joy.
Yet he knew that the world was not kind to him for many reasons, some of it going right back to racism.

That must have been so hard for him.
His various attempts to be loved by the world equaled the pain he received from it.

Michael, now you are free from all that.
Rest well in Peace.
We will always remember you and love you for what you were to us.

With love,
Yoko Ono Lennon
June, 2009.

beatlebangs1964

Jul 01, 2009, 09:21 AM

I never cared much for his music, and I have to admit that I have always been one of those people who saw him as a "freak" with all that plastic surgery which made him look bizarre. But it is clear that he was one very sad and messed-up person, and he was never satisfied with himself. That seems to be the tragedy of Michael Jackson.

I feel sorry for the way in which he apparently spiraled downwards. He was definitely a genius, musically, and he was a great showman. For sure, his death is the greatest loss in the music business since John Lennon was murdered.

I agree with you, Hof and think Michael became the mask in the mirror due to his repeated surgeries and low self esteem. Did you catch Joe on the news last night? Instead of grieving for the loss of his child, he wanted to commandeer the spotlight and showcase a record.

I think MJ was a tragic figure, a "boy-man" as Paul described him. Denied a boyhood and apparently a seemingly delicate and fragile personality, MJ appeared ill equipped to cope with adult life and adult responsibilities and responses. That is, of course based on his public behavior and what he has said and done publicly.

Bat, you are NOT a bad person for involuntarily flinching when you saw MJ's radically changed appearance. It had that same effect on me as well. I am sad to say that I also think MJ was a very confused person in many ways. I can't help feeling sorry for him.

Yoko wrote a beautiful and very moving statement. I like that kind of thing because it speaks to tolerance and compassion.

Hof, you spoke my thoughts exactly. While I never cared for the J5, the Jacksons or Michael Jackson's music for the most part and didn't like the Moonwalking at all, I can't help but feel sad for him, his family and the three children who have lost the only parent they have really ever known.

62hofner

Jul 01, 2009, 11:20 AM

I agree with you, Hof and think Michael became the mask in the mirror due to his repeated surgeries and low self esteem. Did you catch Joe on the news last night? Instead of grieving for the loss of his child, he wanted to commandeer the spotlight and showcase a record.

Yeah, someone on the TV said that he was more "grown-up" when he was 11, and seemed to age backwards. That's a pretty good summation.

He was a good-looking black dude during the "Off The Wall" era. When he had his nose done the first time, it was like, "ok... that's fine". But after that :afraid5:!!!

One must be extremely unhappy with themselves to alter their appearance so drastically. Very sad.

... and yeah, I caught his dad plugging his record label. What an ass of a human being!

VersusBatman

Jul 01, 2009, 11:50 AM

The first surgery was for a broken nose. But I think the others were for other issues.

and yeah, I caught his dad plugging his record label. What an ass of a human being!
Seriously. He could have at least pretended to grieve. I know I'm speculating, but I really don't care.

Magill

Jul 01, 2009, 12:45 PM

He was a good-looking black dude during the "Off The Wall" era. When he had his nose done the first time, it was like, "ok... that's fine". But after that :afraid5:!!!

This is what I've always said. Get outta my head, hof! :laugh5:

He was the cutest out of the whole lot until he started to resemble Latoya. :afraid2: Someone should intervened on his addiction to plastic surgery. Then again, his family isn't one that cares too much. So, it seems to me. I was horrified when I saw a smiling, waving Joe Jackson on my homepage. Geez, what a jerk! :angry1:

62hofner

Jul 01, 2009, 01:42 PM

This is what I've always said. Get outta my head, hof! :laugh5:

:teleport:

Hari's Chick

Jul 01, 2009, 06:18 PM

One must be extremely unhappy with themselves to alter their appearance so drastically. Very sad.

I understand how he feels. My experience was different, but I had the similar problem of having a distorted image of myself when I had anorexia. It is something which -if you have not experienced it, it will seem weird. I was literally wearing (hard to find!) size sero clothes. No matter what was said to me, what I saw was something entirely different. Maybe this is how Michael felt at times, too.

Deepak said he helped to teach Michael meditation. He said Michael would ask him ... why this or that happens in the world. While the world thought he was odd, he thought the world was odd- because of all the sad things which go on. Like George, he thought the world was going mental.

I never thought he was a freak. I just thought I did not know *why* he did certain things, like the masks for instance. But I did figure there was probably some reason, and if not, oh well... never bothered me. I do weird stuff but usually for a reason, lol. I did not know much about Michael before his passing, sadly, but what I have come to learn... I wish I had had him as a friend. He's no freak at all to me. I'm probably weird, but I'd climb a tree with him and ride the carousel all happy day, too. I love simple type things.

62hofner

Jul 01, 2009, 06:56 PM

VersusBatman

Jul 01, 2009, 06:59 PM

I understand how he feels. My experience was different, but I had the similar problem of having a distorted image of myself when I had anorexia. It is something which -if you have not experienced it, it will seem weird. I was literally wearing (hard to find!) size sero clothes. No matter what was said to me, what I saw was something entirely different. Maybe this is how Michael felt at times, too.
He could have had this:

Body dysmorphic disorder (BDD) (previously known as Dysmorphophobia[1] and sometimes referred to as Body dysmorphia or Dysmorphic syndrome[2]) is a psychiatric disorder in which the affected person is excessively concerned about and preoccupied by an imagined or minor defect in his or her physical features. The sufferer may complain of several specific features or a single feature, or a vague feature or general appearance, causing psychological distress that impairs occupational and/or social functioning, sometimes to the point of complete social isolation.[3] It is estimated that 1–2% of the world's population meet all the diagnostic criteria for BDD.

Deepak said he helped to teach Michael meditation. He said Michael would ask him ... why this or that happens in the world. While the world thought he was odd, he thought the world was odd- because of all the sad things which go on. Like George, he thought the world was going mental.

I never thought he was a freak. I just thought I did not know *why* he did certain things, like the masks for instance. But I did figure there was probably some reason, and if not, oh well... never bothered me. I do weird stuff but usually for a reason, lol. I did not know much about Michael before his passing, sadly, but what I have come to learn... I wish I had had him as a friend. He's no freak at all to me. I'm probably weird, but I'd climb a tree with him and ride the carousel all happy day, too. I love simple type things.
I never thought he was a freak either. I really think he needed to recapture the childhood his father denied him. I remember how sad I felt for Michael when he told Oprah that he'd watch other kids play and he'd cry of loneliness.

Janet once said she often went to toy stores just to browse because her childhood was a bit stunted as well. Not as bad as Michael, but she felt something missing too.

He told Oprah the reason why he loved children is because how innocent and nonjudgmental they are. He said he loved them the same reason Jesus did.

FPSHOT

Jul 01, 2009, 07:11 PM

He told Oprah the reason why he loved children is because how innocent and nonjudgmental they are. He said he loved them the same reason Jesus did.

that has come out in various other interviews as well, even the Bashir one which is posted here. People had these strange remarks also about his chimps, but he said same as kids, chimps are not judgemental like so many out there were/are about him, based on non-awareness.

beatlebangs1964

Jul 01, 2009, 07:13 PM

Freak IS a harsh word and I amend my stand to say, "not a freak, but a person with a very bad self image who does bizarre things." I think that is fair and honest.

Dr. Chopra is a man who has my deepest respect and I have no doubt the mediation proved beneficial for Michael.

However, I do think Michael may have benefitted from some serious therapy. It DOES sound like he did indeed have BDD. He looked his best in 1979 when he released "Off the Wall" and, as others have stated above, had he stopped the plastic surgery train then, after that first nose job (rhinoplasty), he would have looked perfectly okay.

At any rate... I am not a Michael Jackson fan and I never was.

While that sentiment applies to me as well, Hof, I still can't help but feel sorry for the dude. He WAS denied a boyhood and his rationale for loving children sounds pure, lovely and even idealistic (nobody could object to THAT verbiage), he had an ass for a dad (not to offend donkeys, but....) and to be told repeatedly by HIS OWN DAD how ugly he was and how he inherited his "ugly" nose from "Kate" (Katherine Jackson) and her side of the family.

From all accounts, Joe was not a nice person. For him to hawk a record deal when his son died struck me as being unconscionable. How cruel to give cursory notice to your own child who has died and use the media coverage of his death as a platform for your record deal.

VersusBatman

Jul 01, 2009, 07:17 PM

that has come out in various other interviews as well, even the Bashir one which is posted here. People had these strange remarks also about his chimps, but he said same as kids, chimps are not judgemental like so many out there were/are about him, based on non-awareness.
I think being a man added to the rumors. I wonder if it was Janet that hung out with children, there would have been any issue at all.

beatlebangs1964

Jul 01, 2009, 07:20 PM

Probably.

62hofner

Jul 01, 2009, 07:54 PM

While that sentiment applies to me as well, Hof, I still can't help but feel sorry for the dude. He WAS denied a boyhood and his rationale for loving children sounds pure, lovely and even idealistic (nobody could object to THAT verbiage), he had an ass for a dad (not to offend donkeys, but....) and to be told repeatedly by HIS OWN DAD how ugly he was and how he inherited his "ugly" nose from "Kate" (Katherine Jackson) and her side of the family.

Yes, I feel bad for him and how tortured he obviously was. I was just saying I don't feel particularly "qualified" to speak about him now that he's dead... after never really paying him any mind while he was alive.

Lucy

Jul 02, 2009, 08:10 AM

Correction, Michael was the self-proclaimed King of Pop, he bestowed that title on himself, that is not to knock his accomplishments or his talent, I used to be a fan........

Actually, I believe it was Liz Taylor that first gave him that title. He did not bestow that upon himself. The fans then starting using it and it became like a nickname. I remember he discussed that point during his interview with Oprah when she asked him about it.

Lucy

Jul 02, 2009, 08:19 AM

Did you catch Joe on the news last night? Instead of grieving for the loss of his child, he wanted to commandeer the spotlight and showcase a record.

... and yeah, I caught his dad plugging his record label. What an ass of a human being!

For him to hawk a record deal when his son died struck me as being unconscionable. How cruel to give cursory notice to your own child who has died and use the media coverage of his death as a platform for your record deal.

Oooh my word is he STILL taking the opportunity of the press coverage to do that? I saw him do it at those awards and then again outside the house the next day when he was meant to be talking about the funeral. I have to say i was shocked and was totally confused, wondering what on EARTH he was talking about when he was bleating on about blu ray and how it was the way of the future. It is utterly inappropriate.
However, who am I to comment? I have no idea how the guy is feeling. But yeah - strange.

So now I have the option with my tickets to either get a refund or get the beautiful ticket for the show that Michael had designed which will be a collectors item. Not sure what to do about it really. I think it is cheeky of AEG to make that the deal but I can see that they are trying to make something back from all the money this will have lost them. But really, had he lived, I would have had the ticket AND the show for the same price so to simply say that I can have the ticket is a bit cruel....i know they aren't suggesting that seeing him in concert and the ticket are of the same value but well it is just a bit off really. They should just be given away to the ticket holders in my opinion. Anyway I have a bit of time to decide what to do.

hibgal

Jul 02, 2009, 08:53 AM

He could have had this: "Body dysmorphic disorder (BDD) (previously known as Dysmorphophobia[1] and sometimes referred to as Body dysmorphia or Dysmorphic syndrome[2]) is a psychiatric disorder in which the affected person is excessively concerned about and preoccupied by an imagined or minor defect in his or her physical features."

I somehow doubt it. Seems more likely to me it was caused by the abuse he suffered at the hands of his father. Looking at himself in the mirror and seeing the face his father constantly derided, would've reminded him of the abuse. Also, maybe he saw similarities in his facial features to that of his dad and for anything what he LEAST would've wanted was looking like his father! Nothing strange in that, surely? Who wants to look like or be constantly reminded of his torturer?

VersusBatman

Jul 02, 2009, 10:10 AM

Abuse doesn't cause BDD, but it can be a contributing factor.

Hari's Chick

Jul 03, 2009, 03:00 PM

Well, I'm glad you're well now!

Thanks! Me, too! :laugh5: I was more or less better by around 14, at least perceptably so from the outside. I sure remember though what it's like to look different and get those odd looks from people in public where you know they are thinking, "Freak!" I just so remember what that's like.

Yesterday we went to an LA theme park and all day they played Michael on and off ... sometimes in 45 min straight segments. Some people were wearing shirts to remember him by. Though his passing has made me really sad.... yesterday with the music and the crowds, there was a feeling of celebrating his life and music. I was one of many who were dancing and singing along all though the park. It was really nice.

BTW, Jerry Brown is calling in a lot of narcotic watch dogs on this. People who fed Michael meds they should not have are going to have to answer to Jerry Brown. I so dig him, too.

VersusBatman

Jul 03, 2009, 04:12 PM

I watched his videos all weekend. To me, it's hard to sit still when a song plays.

Hari's Chick

Jul 03, 2009, 06:52 PM

It is for me, too. :) My Mom always teased me about my propensity to dance all over, lol.

VersusBatman

Jul 03, 2009, 08:31 PM

My two sons love to watch his videos now.

ringo_rama

Jul 03, 2009, 09:00 PM

I have tried to finally get the Moonwalk down. I can do it with my right foot for a few seconds but my left foot doesn't want to participate.

VersusBatman

Jul 03, 2009, 09:19 PM

It is harder than it looks. Michael showed Martin Bashir how to do it and he couldn't catch on.

beatlebangs1964

Jul 03, 2009, 09:22 PM

I may be the lone dissenter, but the Moonwalk was the only dance I didn't like. I don't know why, but that particular dance always irritated me.

On a tangential note, in recent years MJ said he could never go back to Neverland to live. This statement came on the heels of the ranch being closed in a raid in 2005-06. It is sad that, due to the allegations he left under a cloud. Now none of us know what really happened and we don't know if the allegations were true or in fact a blackmail scheme, but in light of that it is understandable that Michael would not feel comfortable living at Neverland. Given that, I think it would not be in his postmortem interest to be buried there.

VersusBatman

Jul 03, 2009, 09:26 PM

He said Neverland was desecrated. How sad.

I remember not only trying to do the Moonwalk, but that thing where he hopped on his toes. This reminds me of that quote from the Simpsons:

Homer: How do you do that with your feet?
Michael Jackson: You mean the Moonwalk?
Homer: No, that thing with your feet.

beatlebangs1964

Jul 03, 2009, 09:31 PM

It was sad about how Neverland was tarnished for him. Let's hope it can be a public amusement park for many children to enjoy now.

I preferred his dancing to his singing. MJ was a wonderful dancer.

george_on_cloud9

Jul 03, 2009, 09:35 PM

I heard that it's going to be a Bio Movie about MJ, and the main character will be played by Johnny Depp... Is that true???

mari

Jul 04, 2009, 09:50 AM

I watched his videos all weekend. To me, it's hard to sit still when a song plays.

I did that too.

I miss my brother. I want us to get together and watch MJ videos and concerts like we did when we were kids, but he's out of the country for the time being.

Lucy

Jul 04, 2009, 12:57 PM

He said Neverland was desecrated. How sad.

Yeah it is so sad....he said it was a house to him and no longer a home and he would never live there again - just visit. Sad since it was such a wonderful world he had there.

I heard that it's going to be a Bio Movie about MJ, and the main character will be played by Johnny Depp... Is that true???

Apparently when asked about this on the red carpet the other night at a film premiere, Johnny said no he wouldn't play him in a film. Apparently both he and Jamie Foxx were being considered for the part. I think Johnny would be good (what ISN'T the total dreamboat good in???!!) but I can understand why he wouldn't want to take on the part.

Hari's Chick

Jul 05, 2009, 01:38 PM

I read they expect up to 650,000 to try to attend Michael's memorial service. There are only 17,500 seats, so they are arranging by lottery. The chances of actually getting a ticket are 1 in 183.

I think it will be crazy down at Staples Center. That size crowd... it just a lot of people.

MaccaGirl2891

Jul 05, 2009, 03:34 PM

Will it be nationally televised? I want to tape it since I'll be at work.

Georgie Girl

Jul 05, 2009, 03:42 PM

Wouldn't it be nice if this could be used to raise money for charity?
If all these people want to gather in MJ's memory, a nice way to
honor him would be to contribute to a charity he was involved in.
A wasted opportunity for something useful to come from all these
people being in one place. :rolleyes:

motherTheresa

Jul 05, 2009, 03:55 PM

various mj tunes keep running through my head....:cross5:

donnamariemoreno27

Jul 05, 2009, 06:19 PM

Yeah Neverland was a beautiful house and the property grounds are gorgeous!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1197247/Inside-Neverland-The-stunning-photographs-Michael-Jacksons-fantasy.html

Donna~

MaccaGirl2891

Jul 05, 2009, 06:58 PM

Hari's Chick

Jul 05, 2009, 08:32 PM

Will it be nationally televised? I want to tape it since I'll be at work.

It will. Here is some news on this...

http://news-briefs.ew.com/2009/07/tv-networks-sort-out-jackson-memorial-plans.html

Broadcast and cable networks are beginning to sort out their plans for the July 7 public memorial for Michael Jackson, according to the Associated Press. Although all the video will come via the same pool feed from the Los Angeles Staples Center, ABC, CNN, HLN (formally Headline News), MSNBC, E!, CNN en Espanol and CNN International all plan to broadcast the memorial live, starting at 10 a.m. (PDT). Several networks are sending their top anchors for the event, including Charles Gibson for ABC and Anderson Cooper for CNN. Katie Couric will cover the event from the Staples Center for CBS, but the network hasn't released how it intends to broadcast the memorial. NBC, meanwhile, is not planning live coverage, instead choosing to air a one-hour highlight special in prime-time. Fox News has not announced its plans

Hari's Chick

Jul 05, 2009, 08:36 PM

Abuse doesn't cause BDD, but it can be a contributing factor.

This is true.

Hari's Chick

Jul 06, 2009, 01:44 AM

I just read an article from Lou Ferrigno. It appears Michael was a vegetarian, too...

“So I would go to his house with an inflatable exercise ball and 3lb dumbbells. He did not like the dumbbells. He said he didn’t want big shoulders and big muscles like me.

“I laughed and said, ‘Michael, there’s no way you will get big shoulders from 3lb dumbbells.’”

Stick-thin Jackson was unlikely to get them through his measly eating habits either.

Ferrigno said: “He ate only one meal a day, always in the evening. He’d wake up and not have anything for the whole day, and when he did eat it was always vegetarian.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/celebs/news/2009/07/06/michael-jackson-was-killed-by-the-stress-of-his-400m-debts-says-his-friend-lou-the-incredible-hulk-ferrigno-115875-21497414/

VersusBatman

Jul 06, 2009, 08:59 AM

One meal a day. No wonder his heart gave out. He's been a vegetarian for years. I don't know when he became one.

Lucy

Jul 06, 2009, 10:45 AM

I didn't know he was veggie. Certainly up into 2003, KFC was one of his fave foods and when he was here in London in March apparently he had fish and chips - his favourite British treat. But really I don't know....maybe it was a thing he took up in the last few years.

Hari's Chick

Jul 06, 2009, 01:07 PM

The fish and chips (unless there was a photo?) most likely was a rumor. They did the same to George when he visited Australia, saying he ate chicken when he visited, and it panned out to be untrue.

I googles around and there are even suggestions Michael was vegan. But for sure he was veggie, yeah.

http://www.examiner.com/x-5150-Philadelphia-Vegan-Examiner~y2009m6d27-Was-Michael-Jackson-a-vegan

Perhaps this could be one of the questions we will receive answers to in the weeks ahead. There is some evidence floating around indicating that Jackson indeed may have been a "strict vegetarian," which could lead one to infer that he was actually a vegan.

"Associates also say he adheres to a strict vegetarian diet and works out with a personal trainer." -BusinessMirror
"He also was a strict vegetarian." -LATimes
"Jackson was a vegetarian..." -About
He has also been featured on Happy Cow's list of famous vegetarians. Although Jackson may have followed a vegan diet and likey considered himself an "animal lover," did he really live a life of non-exploitation?

Michael had been criticized by PETA for keeping exotic animals as pets, keeping animals in unacceptable conditions at the Neverland Ranch, and planning to use animals in his live shows.

So was Michael Jackson a vegan? Maybe by diet, but certainly not through adherence to a compassionate lifestyle. It's definitely possible that Jackson had yet to make all the connections clear in his mind about the use of animals in all aspects of life, but he probably would have chosen to defend animals to the best of his abilities considering the compassion he showed for those around him.

********************

And this one speaks of his favorite meals recently...

AEG promoter Randy Phillips has revealed some of the last meals Michael Jackson ate while rehearsing for what would have been 50 sold out concert performances.

Apparently the vegetarian Jackson was so focused, he would forget to eat and Phillips and other members of the crew had to force him to.

“He used to forget to eat because he was so focused and Kenny Ortega and I used to cut up his food and physically feed him,” the UK Mirror quoted Phillips as saying.

Phillips said some of Jackson’s favorite dishes were vegetarian lasagna, steamed broccoli, nut loaf or tofu with chili sauce.

via Entertainment Daily

http://vegetarianstar.com/2009/07/03/michael-jacksons-last-vegetarian-meals-revealed/

http://image.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/michael-animal2a.jpg

********************

Hari's Chick

Jul 06, 2009, 01:25 PM

I wish I had known what I know now about Michael while he was alive. I always loved his music and dancing and I always believed him innocent of the bad charges levied his way. But there was such a media circus around him, so many conflicting articles and "news".... that I figured there was no point in even trying to weed fact from fiction. I just liked him a lot musically and mentally avoided the rest.

What a lot I missed, and for years. What an amazing, compassionate human being he was. And I am really not one to fall for media hype or think someone saintly just because they are gone. It's not that. I just so regret not knowing more about him so I might have enjoyed him on a more humanistic level before he passed. I missed so much.

I remember when John Lennon passed there were suddenly a gazillion new John fans wearing shirts and talking about him all over the place, and Beatlefest maxed out it's numbers. That made me feel weird, at the time.

Then again, had I known all this about Michael... the details of his childhood & how he turned his misfortunes into an exercise in compassion, his extreme gentle side (see the video in my signature), his possible BDD or possible anorexia, his vegetarianism, his sense of humor, his playfulness, his homeschooling his kids, his charities .... I am certain I'd have had this enormous star crush in place for years and would only be more sad by his passing...

What a gentle soul...

Lucy

Jul 06, 2009, 02:49 PM

Wow that's really interesting. I didn't know that about him. I knew he was a BIG animal lover but not that he was veggie!

The fish and chip thing I read in an interview with the godfather of his three kids - they had dinner together when he was last here in March. The KFC thing I remember from the transcripts from his trial - the air hostess on his private jet said that one of his requests for his flights was that there was KFC with each meal! hahaaa! But that of course doesn't mean that he ate it himself - I just assumed that he did eat it because I know when he was little he liked it.

Lucy

Jul 06, 2009, 03:13 PM

I am certain I'd have had this enormous star crush in place for years...

As for developing a crush on him, I think watching this clip is enough to make it happen...here he sings In the Closet live on the HIStory tour which I think is one of his hottest songs...he does an awesome little dance routine AND he speaks all manly - not in the falsetto that we are all so familiar with (reportedly a performance choice).

WWJZ_B1Hc_4

Okay now, you all know how sad I about Michael's death (still crying over it surprisingly) so you know I'm not being mean or anything....BUT what do you guys think of these new clips showing up with alleged evidence of his ghost? I mean OF COURSE it was only going to be a matter of time before this kind of thing started.

I think this one of the shadow and figure inside Neverland is a bit lame because it could be anyone walking past a window (I guess a little scary though...you see it down the hallway right after the camera has focused on the door) BUT I have to say the image behind Jermaine is a little spooky. Of course it could be anything though!!

The one inside Neveraland:

3boCnmfFWNo

The one behind Jermaine:

Y0heNgDEyvE

I am sure there are going to be plenty of these kind of things over the next few months. And then the sightings of him shopping with Elvis etc etc.

VersusBatman

Jul 06, 2009, 04:43 PM

Michael had been criticized by PETA for keeping exotic animals as pets, keeping animals in unacceptable conditions at the Neverland Ranch, and planning to use animals in his live shows.

So was Michael Jackson a vegan? Maybe by diet, but certainly not through adherence to a compassionate lifestyle. It's definitely possible that Jackson had yet to make all the connections clear in his mind about the use of animals in all aspects of life, but he probably would have chosen to defend animals to the best of his abilities considering the compassion he showed for those around him.
While i usually don't like PETA, they raised valid concerns over owning exotic pets. Wild animals can act out at any moment. I thought about the article stating that Micheal had to give Bubbles the chimp away because he got too big to handle. That's what happens to chimps once they outgrow the cute stage. They are stronger than most people realize and can cause fatal injuries.

I know of another celebrity who's vegan but hasn't spoken out for animal rights. That would be Weird Al Yankovic.

I wonder if Jackson owning all those animals were another part of making up for lost childhood. My mom forbade us from owning a cat. She hated them. So as soon as we got a house of our own, we got a cat and now I have five.

Georgie Girl

Jul 06, 2009, 05:43 PM

One of my Doors buddies who lives in LA believes the funeral is in progress right now. :afraid2:

hibgal

Jul 06, 2009, 06:15 PM

What about people selling their FREE tickets for the funeral on eBay for $$$? :angry9:

VersusBatman

Jul 06, 2009, 07:12 PM

That's disgusting.

62hofner

Jul 06, 2009, 07:37 PM

What about people selling their FREE tickets for the funeral on eBay for $$$? :angry9:

Like that should surprise anyone! People are greedy.... they'd sell their souls on eBay if they could!

But I don't see any of them on eBay at the moment. Maybe they got yanked?

62hofner

Jul 06, 2009, 07:39 PM

One of my Doors buddies who lives in LA believes the funeral is in progress right now. :afraid2:

We live a stone's throw from Forest Lawn Cemetery... helicopters have been flying over head ALL frickin' day...... news vans are parked all along the road that runs below the cemetery. It's going to be a circus tomorrow downtown.

ringo_rama

Jul 06, 2009, 07:46 PM

“I laughed and said, ‘Michael, there’s no way you will get big shoulders from 3lb dumbbells.’”

Well there goes my workout regime. :(

FPSHOT

Jul 06, 2009, 07:56 PM

Saw the Bucharest show from October 1, 1992 last night. 70.000 people in audience.

Amazing show.

Hari's Chick

Jul 06, 2009, 08:01 PM

I know of another celebrity who's vegan but hasn't spoken out for animal rights. That would be Weird Al Yankovic.

I wonder if Jackson owning all those animals were another part of making up for lost childhood. My mom forbade us from owning a cat. She hated them. So as soon as we got a house of our own, we got a cat and now I have five.

I didn't know that about Weird Al. How cool he is vegan.

I bet you're right about the animals. We weren't allowed animals either because my Mom feared cats. She loved dogs but said no to dogs as well. Finally my brother got my Mom to okay one dog when I was older. We have many cats and 2 dogs now. :)

Hari's Chick

Jul 06, 2009, 08:02 PM

Well there goes my workout regime. :(

:laugh5: :tongue1:

Hari's Chick

Jul 06, 2009, 08:11 PM

As for developing a crush on him, I think watching this clip is enough to make it happen...here he sings In the Closet live on the HIStory tour which I think is one of his hottest songs...he does an awesome little dance routine AND he speaks all manly - not in the falsetto that we are all so familiar with (reportedly a performance choice).

That's a really awesome video, Lucy. The one which really is hot too is the video for Black and White... the back and forth shoulder thing. And I'm a sucker for a man doing bharatanatyam dancing. :) And the video in my signature with him saving the bug.... that's my perfect kind of guy. <3

Georgie Girl

Jul 06, 2009, 08:35 PM

Like that should surprise anyone! People are greedy.... they'd sell their souls on eBay if they could!

But I don't see any of them on eBay at the moment. Maybe they got yanked?
Some people these days are strapped for cash.
See video:

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/entertainment/celebrity_news/090706_houstonians_win_michael_jackson_memorial_ti ckets

beatlebangs1964

Jul 06, 2009, 08:59 PM

While i usually don't like PETA, they raised valid concerns over owning exotic pets. Wild animals can act out at any moment. I thought about the article stating that Michael had to give Bubbles the chimp away because he got too big to handle. That's what happens to chimps once they outgrow the cute stage. They are stronger than most people realize and can cause fatal injuries.

I know of another celebrity who's vegan but hasn't spoken out for animal rights. That would be Weird Al Yankovic.

I wonder if Jackson owning all those animals were another part of making up for lost childhood. My mom forbade us from owning a cat. She hated them. So as soon as we got a house of our own, we got a cat and now I have five.

I thought the same things too, Bat. I ususally don't care for PETA and find them a fringe group of extremists, but I have always had concerns about people owning exotic (that is, usually undomesticated) pets. There have been some very sad stories with sadder outcomes in the last few years about people who have insisted upon owning tigers and ligers (a liger is the product of a lion and a tigress) and tiglons (the opposite of a liger, tiglons are the product of a tiger and a lioness).

Good on Weird Al for taking a stand in re animal rights. That speaks to a lot of good about him. :thumbu2:

For many years I have thought MJ was trying to make up for his lost boyhood. The aptly named amusement park, (a nod to Peter Pan, the perpetual boy who did not want to and refused to grow up); the ubiquitious child guests and child-related activites such as his zoo and carnival all point to that. I have heard MJ say oh so many times how he yearned to go outside and play with the other kids on the playground, but he was forced to practice, practice, practice. From all accounts, Joe sounded like a camel driver.

I can't help feeling sorry for Michael. As I have said before, while we will never know if the allegations of 1993 and 2003 are false or not, the sad thing is that placed him under a cloud. Those kinds of things influence people's thinking, even those who believe he was innocent. I take the stand that I hope the allegations are false, but since I don't know, I won't make any assumptions and will keep an open mind.

62hofner

Jul 06, 2009, 09:02 PM

Some people these days are strapped for cash.
See video:

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/entertainment/celebrity_news/090706_houstonians_win_michael_jackson_memorial_ti ckets

If people knew they couldn't afford to fly out and attend, then why did they apply for tickets???

I am glad eBay and craigslist have yanked the sales from their sites. As for those who have a second wrist band, in the giving spirit of Michael, they should be giving away their second wrist bands to those who wanted to attend but didn't win.

beatlebangs1964

Jul 06, 2009, 09:16 PM

Good points, Hof.

And good on eBay and Craig's List for yanking ticket sales. Hawking tickets to the man's funeral does not feel right to me.

MaccaGirl2891

Jul 07, 2009, 11:57 AM

The memorial service was so touching. I actually cried. Jermaine singing...wow. I could never do that.

ChrisG134

Jul 07, 2009, 01:58 PM

I'm glad I worked today.I didn't have to watch the tv.A little too much for me.

beatlebangs1964

Jul 07, 2009, 02:01 PM

Paris gave a stellar talk.

Well done, but with all due respect, perhaps now that Michael Jackson has been laid to rest, perhaps the news can give him a rest as well.

MaccaGirl2891

Jul 07, 2009, 02:46 PM

As for developing a crush on him, I think watching this clip is enough to make it happen...here he sings In the Closet live on the HIStory tour which I think is one of his hottest songs...he does an awesome little dance routine AND he speaks all manly - not in the falsetto that we are all so familiar with (reportedly a performance choice).

Ohmygoshwhydidn'thespeakinhismanlyvoiceallthetime? ?????????? HOLY CRAP. That was hot.

Here's him singing in his normal voice.
jHd1rLurxNk

Mccartneyluvr

Jul 07, 2009, 05:23 PM

If people knew they couldn't afford to fly out and attend, then why did they apply for tickets???

I am glad eBay and craigslist have yanked the sales from their sites. As for those who have a second wrist band, in the giving spirit of Michael, they should be giving away their second wrist bands to those who wanted to attend but didn't win.

A girl I work with got tickets. Her boyfriend registered her and they actually got tickets. Their seats weren't at the Staples Center, but at the Nokia Theater which was going to have a live feed from Staples. She was afraid she would get into trouble for missing work so she gave them to a friend who was a big fan.

beatlebangs1964

Jul 07, 2009, 06:12 PM

I prefer the "manly" or mature voice. I honestly did not know he even had one. Lisa Marie Presley said that MJ had a regular voice, but used the high voice as a stage persona.

Brooke Shields and Paris gave the standout speeches. They were stellar.

MaccaGirl2891

Jul 08, 2009, 05:04 AM

I didn't know he had a mature voice either. If only he'd used it more...

VersusBatman

Jul 08, 2009, 06:32 PM

Maybe I'm not used to it, but I like his higher voice better.

I finally got a chance to watch the whole Bashir interview and Maury's expose. It made me so angry how Bashir twisted things around. And he just wouldn't shut up about his plastic surgery.

Hari's Chick

Jul 08, 2009, 07:28 PM

Hari's Chick

Jul 08, 2009, 07:31 PM

The memorial service was so touching. I actually cried. Jermaine singing...wow. I could never do that.

Me, too. I cried through almost the entire thing. I really, really loved the preacher at the very end... the prayer he offered was so beautiful.

VersusBatman

Jul 08, 2009, 07:41 PM

I like his higher voice better, too. I like all his effeminate ways, actually... quite a lot.

Channel 2 had Bashir on to comment on the memorial service, etc. He was going on and on about "when I spent time with the family in several countries... they always... " etc etc.... Then he had the nerve to offer advice about Michael's family. Made me MAD. (I was not watching channel 2 btw but saw this later online...). Makes me want to avoid channel 2 entirely. I cannot IMAGINE they allowed him to remark at all. How horrid and insensitive.
Wow. I mean...wow. He has a lot of balls.

I listened to Michael's feelings about children and I get how he feels. I feel a swelling of joy every time I listen to my kids play or laugh.

Back in April, the internet celeb, The Nostalgia Critic made fun of the movie "Moonwalker". I thought it was so funny because a lot of it was on the mark. It wasn't a very good movie. I felt a little weird watching it after his death, but I just think of it as a posthumous roast. Critic did praise Smooth Criminal although he couldn't resist poking fun at a few things about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3UxjDuu1kk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfY9-e5cAk8&feature=related

I always found Michael's laugh so cute and innocent.

Marmalade Skies

Jul 08, 2009, 09:29 PM

I had no idea he had a 'different voice'. So much more manly!

I watched the memorial. It was so heartbreaking, especially the speech that Paris gave. She is such a beautiful girl, I'm so glad we can see her now.

Lucy

Jul 08, 2009, 11:24 PM

Channel 2 had Bashir on to comment on the memorial service, etc. He was going on and on about "when I spent time with the family in several countries... they always... " etc etc.... Then he had the nerve to offer advice about Michael's family. Made me MAD. (I was not watching channel 2 btw but saw this later online...). Makes me want to avoid channel 2 entirely. I cannot IMAGINE they allowed him to remark at all. How horrid and insensitive.

I think that it is just such a disgrace that he was used to give comments for the memorial. Absolutely disgusting. That man utterly betrayed Michael and caused him SO much pain. For him to sit there and priovide his opinion on things....look i don't even know what to say. My friend told me that was the version of the service she watched and she too was horrified. I am shocked. I was surprised that he even had the nerve to make a comment about his passing at all...I saw it on youtube the other day. When I think of some of the stuff he said to MJ that you hear in the rebuttal version....and then you see what he put together, it all makes me so mad. Bashir really did take years off his life.

MaccaGirl2891

Jul 09, 2009, 11:57 AM

oldbeatlechick

Jul 09, 2009, 12:21 PM

Michael was hounded and ridiculed for years please God, let the media let him Rest In Peace. His daughter Paris was so brave to speak out and I felt for her when I heard her speech, those kids seem so grounded and have obviously been so loved. I hope the media leave them alone to grieve as a family.

VersusBatman

Jul 09, 2009, 12:23 PM

I watched the whole Bashir exposé that Maury did as well. I was startled as well. How dare someone do that to Michael, or anyone for that matter. That's not right.
I believe the media had a part in his demise and self-destruction as well. Bullying to the extreme. How tragic.
Bashir was such a sneak. He was all, "Oh you're such a great father!", then he turns around and says, "I found him disturbing."

Hari's Chick

Jul 09, 2009, 03:59 PM

Bashir was such a sneak. He was all, "Oh you're such a great father!", then he turns around and says, "I found him disturbing."

Think of all the bad karma this man has. He kicked the domino which set Michael Jackson's life into the tailspin as I see it. Every meal those kids look at their father's empty chair, every holiday they wake up with no dad, every tear from every fan- the fans who committed suicide .... every missed embrace from Michael's siblings, all the grief from Katherine and Joe ..... ALL that karma square on Bashir's snake shoulders.

Hari's Chick

Jul 09, 2009, 04:01 PM

I believe the media had a part in his demise and self-destruction as well. Bullying to the extreme. How tragic.

Exactly. The media killed Princess Di and they killed Michael as well. You said it exactly- it is media bullying.... exactly... :(

VersusBatman

Jul 09, 2009, 05:44 PM

Think of all the bad karma this man has. He kicked the domino which set Michael Jackson's life into the tailspin as I see it. Every meal those kids look at their father's empty chair, every holiday they wake up with no dad, every tear from every fan- the fans who committed suicide .... every missed embrace from Michael's siblings, all the grief from Katherine and Joe ..... ALL that karma square on Bashir's snake shoulders.
Yeah, I don't envy him meeting his maker and explaining why he did what he did.

Lucy

Jul 10, 2009, 03:20 AM

VersusBatman

Jul 10, 2009, 10:32 AM

I find it ironic that the media that hung him out to dry are now paying tribute to him.

VersusBatman

Jul 10, 2009, 11:19 AM

A nice tribute by Weird Al Yankovic.

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/29050662/michael_jackson_remembered_weird_al_yankovic_on_im itation_as_flattery

Hari's Chick

Jul 10, 2009, 07:03 PM

beatlebangs1964

Jul 10, 2009, 07:30 PM

Devil's radio. Plain and simple.

VersusBatman

Jul 10, 2009, 08:29 PM

The Weird Al interview was a nice read. I didn't realize how involved Michael was with the spoofs. :)

This is my ultimate crush video... omgosh... every single move is ... breakfasty. :angel4:

nJ-Y6xrkNvg
I thought it was so cool that Michael allowed Al to film 'Fat" on the same area Bad was filmed.

I love Black Or White, although I always fast forward the beginning with Macaulay Culkin. I was one of the lone people that never thought he was cute or enduring during his child star years.

MaccaGirl2891

Jul 11, 2009, 12:47 PM

ULTIMATE crush video right here.

FmVNygCcQE

beatlebangs1964

Jul 12, 2009, 06:33 AM

What is breakfasty?

I never liked the word breakfast and adding a y to it doesn't improve it for me. Silly little quirk, I know, but for some reason I never liked that word.

Hari's Chick

Jul 12, 2009, 12:43 PM

ULTIMATE crush video right here.

FmVNygCcQE

For some reason this is not showing up for me?

Hari's Chick

Jul 12, 2009, 12:47 PM

What is breakfasty?

I never liked the word breakfast and adding a y to it doesn't improve it for me. Silly little quirk, I know, but for some reason I never liked that word.

Oops, sorry BB! It is another version of yummy. :wink1:

I'll try to limit my use in the future on your behalf! :sssh:

VersusBatman

Jul 12, 2009, 01:00 PM

For some reason this is not showing up for me?
It's not showing up for me either.

One reason why Bad has a special place in my childhood is that my jr. high art teacher used to let us listen to the radio while we worked on our projects. many songs from Bad were heard.

There are conflicting stories about Michael's health prior to his concert date from the media (I know, big surprise). Some say he was practically on the brink of death, while others say he was fit and ready to go.

MaccaGirl2891

Jul 12, 2009, 01:52 PM

It's not gonna show up. :(
So here's a link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FmVNygCcQE

Listen to "Dangerous." Oh. My. Goodness.

VersusBatman

Jul 12, 2009, 03:06 PM

Interesting. I forgot how good that song was.

I saw this quote on another forum and I kind of agree.

Martin Bashir, the only words that I have for you is that I hope that every night when you go to sleep, Zombie!Michael from the Thriller video comes to haunt you in your dreams. That is all.

MaccaGirl2891

Jul 12, 2009, 04:23 PM

I watched the Bashir documentary as well as the Maury expose and I was appalled at the way Bashir was on there. I loved the video game Michael had and the way he interacted with his kids. So loving. And I about creid when he said, "I don't wanna be buried. I wanna live forever."

Hari's Chick

Jul 13, 2009, 01:44 PM

I got some nice words from the devotee grapevine about Michael. Seems a few years back he was having some sort of family party in NY and asked the devotees to cater the event. They said he was super, super sweet. The devotees wanted to gift him with some things, and Michael said he already had a copy of Srila Prabhupada's "Bhagavad Gita." So, instead, they gave him this beautiful picture book of Lord Krishna. (George was also gifted this book years ago.) Michael accepted it and was very thankful. He looked through and remarked how beautiful the pictures were, and that he loved them.

The devotees kept remarking how amazingly sweet he was.

beatlebangs1964

Jul 13, 2009, 04:34 PM

I think the Bad video and song are funny. Michael Jackson was as far removed from a badass as you'll EVER find! And those little kids dressed up as Bad-Assettes are just TOO funny! The man had the gift of spoof. The song and the video are a panic!

As for the Bashir interview, MJ might have wanted to lay down some ground rules, such as a) he would not answer any questions or discuss plastic surgery; b) the allegations and c) anything else he felt should remain private. Since MJ grew up in front of cameras and knew the show biz life, one would think that if he did not want certain things aired, it might not have been a bad idea not to discuss them, such as the kiddie sleepovers, which sadly cost him big time during that interview.

MaccaGirl2891

Jul 13, 2009, 05:42 PM

I think MJ looks totally badass...and sexy...in that video.

But you know, sadly, we'll never know the REAL truth from Michael himself. Hopefully someone will clear everything up in the next few months or years.

VersusBatman

Jul 13, 2009, 05:54 PM

As for the Bashir interview, MJ might have wanted to lay down some ground rules, such as a) he would not answer any questions or discuss plastic surgery; b) the allegations and c) anything else he felt should remain private. Since MJ grew up in front of cameras and knew the show biz life, one would think that if he did not want certain things aired, it might not have been a bad idea not to discuss them, such as the kiddie sleepovers, which sadly cost him big time during that interview.
I still wonder how Michael could have thought that no one would think what he did was weird.

Hari's Chick

Jul 13, 2009, 06:00 PM

I think we know the truth. Innocent people always get taken down and there will always be throngs who want to think the worst. Why? I do not understand.

You have respectable people who knew him like Elizabeth Taylor, Deepak Chopra, Smokey Robinson, religous leaders, so many respected people saying... we know this man and he is so good, so kind, so pure in spirit. Then on the other side are the scum sucking Bashir's of the world looking to undo anything positive.

I mean, my God, the papers called George a nazi. They will say anything. Same way we know George was not a nazi, Paul is not dead, we can know Michael is one of the most innocent hearted people I've ever seen.

Hari's Chick

Jul 13, 2009, 06:02 PM

I still wonder how Michael could have thought that no one would think what he did was weird.

I think he did not know because his heart was truly that innocent.

FPSHOT

Jul 13, 2009, 06:03 PM

Is Bashir his real name?

Hari's Chick

Jul 13, 2009, 06:15 PM

Is Bashir his real name?

Yes, God aligned him well with that, didn't He?

Here is a video everyone should see....

edit: sorry it is disabled, so click here~

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUtJwzOSCAU

GUtJwzOSCAU

VersusBatman

Jul 13, 2009, 06:23 PM

That's sweet. With his fragile psyche, I wonder what would have happened if the little boy died.

MaccaGirl2891

Jul 13, 2009, 06:31 PM

Amazing.

FPSHOT

Jul 13, 2009, 06:36 PM

Here is a video everyone should see....

Those are the stories which really matter huh, not the glossy fake ones.

VersusBatman

Jul 13, 2009, 09:19 PM

VersusBatman

Jul 13, 2009, 10:09 PM

Here is a good tribute to Michael Jackson. I think it's good considering that the guy who made this usually had a very foul mouth.

http://www.cinemassacre.com/new/?p=1654

FPSHOT

Jul 14, 2009, 04:03 AM

I still wonder how Michael could have thought that no one would think what he did was weird.

I saw a documentary once about a kid who was brought up by apes.

Because he was left in a rainforrest or something like that as a little kid - no this is not Tarzan but a true story - and was found at age 18 or so what appeared later.

So, he did not know other than that life and loved it. He became so sad to be taken away from his 'family', the apes. Then they put clothes on him which for him was a weird experience. The whole thing scared him.

My point is, Michael was thrown in to the music world at what, 6?, and it went so fenominal with his brothers that before he knew it he was 20. However, had no awareness of what kids between 6 and 20 experience or at least not in a comparable way. Exceptions of course not taken in to account.

Then when you are a grown up but can not go hiking or biking or skiing or running or shopping or on a simple vacation or just take the dog out for a walk or grab a veggie burger in a normal way...

Then what is the option? A disguise or mask or anything to be able to do some of those things.

But then when this idiot media gets hold of you the same evening all these weird pictures will show up with glossy comments on how someone dresses up during the day and people take it and chit chat and love to get a kick out of a gossip and go like 'oh have you seen Michael Jackson wearing that wig???, what an idiot huh"

Isn't that just very sad?

Even our Beatles had some of this in their days, they were lucky to be able to just walk in to the Studio and chat with the Apple Scruffs but those were the sixties and not the eighties and 90's.

Still, all the Beatlemania left it's scars on for instance George who just like Michael said 'i am happy when I am behind the gates, but the moment I go out there I think, what the hell am I doing here' and sure it has not always been like that but still, do not underestimate what it does to someone and when that someone in Michael's case is volnerable because of things which happened in his youth, AND things which did NOT happen, who the heck are those who form a bad opinion about that based on non-awareness. They are the ones who pay the glossy media.

VersusBatman

Jul 14, 2009, 10:07 AM

Remember the movie Moonwalker? Sega Genesis came out with a video game based on the movie. Here is a review of it and it's as lame as I remembered it.

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/angry-video-screwattack/44106?type=flv

MaccaGirl2891

Jul 14, 2009, 11:44 AM

ringo_rama

Jul 14, 2009, 12:00 PM

LaToya's always seemed kind of...out there, which says a lot considering her family. Apparently now she's convinced that Michael was murdered. I think it was just a combination of incompetent and corrupt "experts" who didn't know when to say no.

Re: the kids I'm hoping it's just a hoax, the Sun's not exactly a trustworthy source. I wouldn't put it past Joe, but it seems too harebrained especially with Michael's history.

VersusBatman

Jul 14, 2009, 12:21 PM

The Sun is a tabloid if I'm not mistaken.

MaccaGirl2891

Jul 14, 2009, 02:14 PM

Yeah, it is.

Hari's Chick

Jul 14, 2009, 02:51 PM

Those are the stories which really matter huh, not the glossy fake ones.

Exactly, yeah.

Then when you are a grown up but can not go hiking or biking or skiing or running or shopping or on a simple vacation or just take the dog out for a walk or grab a veggie burger in a normal way...

Isn't that just very sad?

It is. There is so much we take for granted in being able to do these day to day things. Then as you say, to think... what if someone is famous their whole life so never gets to know these simple things. And add to that how he was not allowed these things as a child and it is super easy to see why simple things are important to him.

I remember as a child not being allowed to go to Disneyland while my older siblings and parents went. It was because I was youngest, so I would be a "bother" and slow things down. Other kids my age got to go, but I was not allowed to. They went each year, but it wasn't until I was older I was allowed. Those kinds of things do stick with you. I mean, that is a mild example, but I know that feeling of looking on and being disallowed from things other peers got to do. Probably we all now that feeling in some small way or other, but Michael had that experience huge.

Here is a video of Michael going shopping, which is adorable. He has so, so much fun just looking around and shopping. It is so precious!

h-W59Qv1EiI

Hari's Chick

Jul 14, 2009, 03:11 PM

Here are a few memories of Michael:

I remember the first time I saw the Moonwalk. Just like the people in the audience, I was pumped up as heck watching the King of Pop singing Billie Jean. Then he did those short steps backward and my mouth dropped open. I had never seen anything so cool. I still get chills when see that footage. So I can truly relate to those who saw the Fab Four for the first time on the Ed Sullivan Show.

UgPKc9FUC6Y

I realize "We Are The World" is considered cheesy and looking back, I can see why. But when it came out in 1984 guess who kept her eyes glues to the set? That's right, me. My eyes pretty much glazed over at the other singers until the moment the camera showed a pair of familiar black loafers and sparkly white socks. My heart skipped a beat and I held my breath. As the camera panned up to Michael's face, I could hardly contain myself. We taped it and needless to say, I watched it over and over. I think it's worn out by now.

In church, all the ten year old girls got together with their teacher once a week for activities to learn useful skills. While we did the activities, we discussed Michael Jackson. How cute he was and why Brook Shields was wrong for him (what? we were ten). We often tried to imitate his dance moves and daydreamed about what it would be like being Mrs. Michael Jackson. At a sleepover, we played the Thriller album three times until one of the girl's mother said that was quite enough. We watched the Thriller video and the making of the video.

To say that my dad disliked Michael Jackson was an understatement. He didn't like anything about him. His singing, his dancing, his one glove, his sparkly socks, his shades...everything. Every chance he got he bad mouthed him if I was in the room. His dislike spilled over onto Janet as well. Maybe the Jackson's did something to his ancestors long time ago, I don't know. But it annoyed me. I often found myself saying, "Yes we know. Michael is the devil, please drop it." But then he pretty much hated all the music i liked.

That's such an amazing video! :blush4: :smile1:

This was so special to read. :) You're so right that the Moonwalk for that generation was a lot like the Fabs on Ed Sullivan. It was a huge moment!

I remember when the Thriller video came out, too. I always liked top 40 music, and my brother liked Led Zepplin, Pink Floyd, and Van Halen. But since he also liked scary movies I thought it was my chance to get him to like top 40, lol. I remember getting him to watch it, or to tolerate it. At the end I said how now he had to admit MJ was cool, and he said something smirkingly solicitous. lol!

How funny your Dad was so opposed to Michael, lol... and even to Janet, too. I liked Janet so much as well. I recorded all their videos on VHS, both Michael and Janet. I remember watching Black Cat and also That's the Way Love Goes about a zillion times. Loooved those two especially from her.

Hari's Chick

Jul 14, 2009, 03:20 PM

I hope this NEVER happens. Get away, Joe Jackson! Stay in California and the rest can come back to Indiana and get away from him!

http://omg.yahoo.com/news/report-joe-jackson-has-recording-touring-plans-for-michael-jacksons-children/25150

What do some of you think about LaToya and the information she's been giving? I'm trying to get as much information on this as possible before coming to a whole conclusion. I heard that she testified against Michael during the 2nd trial and was convinced that he was a pedophile and claimed she had evidence proving so...

They say everything spoken by LaToya she has been paid to say. I would not give it any thought at all.

I bet the news about Joe is false, and even if it were true... meh. The kids will be looked after by Katherine. Joe is a Grandpa now, and I think hopefully a more gentle man than he was years ago. Maybe he wants to give the kids something, a dream, to focus on instead of the sadness surrounding them now. Since we cannot know his intentions, let's hope he is just an over-enthusiastic Grandpa.

ringo_rama

Jul 14, 2009, 04:30 PM

Holy crap, I just heard "2000 Watts" for the first time ever today. What a kickass song. I hope there are more songs in the proverbial vault with his lower voice; it sounds so cryptic and awesome.

beatlebangs1964

Jul 14, 2009, 08:03 PM

I always thought this was such a beautiful song that MJ put his whole heart into.

BEN

Ben, the two of us need look no more
We both found what we were looking for
With a friend to call my own
I'll never be alone
And you, my friend, will see
You've got a friend in me
(you've got a friend in me)

Ben, you're always running here and there
You feel you're not wanted anywhere
If you ever look behind
And don't like what you find
There's one thing you should know
You've got a place to go
(you've got a place to go)

I used to say "I" and "me"
Now it's "us", now it's "we"
I used to say "I" and "me"
Now it's "us", now it's "we"
Ben, most people would turn you away
I don't listen to a word they say
They don't see you as I do
I wish they would try to
I'm sure they'd think again
If they had a friend like Ben
(a friend) Like Ben
(like Ben) Like Ben

When I found out in recent years it was about a rat, boy did I ever feel led down the garden path!

VersusBatman

Jul 14, 2009, 08:27 PM

That's such an amazing video! :blush4: :smile1:

This was so special to read. :) You're so right that the Moonwalk for that generation was a lot like the Fabs on Ed Sullivan. It was a huge moment!

I remember when the Thriller video came out, too. I always liked top 40 music, and my brother liked Led Zepplin, Pink Floyd, and Van Halen. But since he also liked scary movies I thought it was my chance to get him to like top 40, lol. I remember getting him to watch it, or to tolerate it. At the end I said how now he had to admit MJ was cool, and he said something smirkingly solicitous. lol!

How funny your Dad was so opposed to Michael, lol... and even to Janet, too. I liked Janet so much as well. I recorded all their videos on VHS, both Michael and Janet. I remember watching Black Cat and also That's the Way Love Goes about a zillion times. Loooved those two especially from her.
I said this before, but the only zombie's I will watch are the ones in Thriller. I generally don't enjoy zombie movies.

Black Cat rules! That next to Rhythm Nation is an awesome song. Whenever my dad saw a Janet Jackson video, he'd scoff "She dances like her brother. Her songs all sound alike."

Yeah well, I bet a lot of grownups said that about The Beatles.

I find the song "Leave Me Alone" ironic. Not because of recent events in Michael's life. The video was featured in the Moonwalker movie. Michael is pleading people to leave him alone. But in the first 30 minutes of the movie, there is a montage of how awesome Michael's career is. It basically said "Look at me!". I realize it's a big middle finger to the tabloids, but the stories that went around at the time of Moonwalker were perpetrated by Jackson himself. It's kind of like telling people to not look at a train wreck.

I see the song Ben as a wish for a pet. I don't think Michael could have one due to his work schedule.

beatlebangs1964

Jul 14, 2009, 08:35 PM

I said this before, but the only zombie's I will watch are the ones in Thriller. I generally don't enjoy zombie movies.

Black Cat rules! That next to Rhythm Nation is an awesome song. Whenever my dad saw a Janet Jackson video, he'd scoff "She dances like her brother. Her songs all sound alike."

Yeah well, I bet a lot of grownups said that about The Beatles.

I find the song "Leave Me Alone" ironic. Not because of recent events in Michael's life. The video was featured in the Moonwalker movie. Michael is pleading people to leave him alone. But in the first 30 minutes of the movie, there is a montage of how awesome Michael's career is. It basically said "Look at me!". I realize it's a big middle finger to the tabloids, but the stories that went around at the time of Moonwalker were perpetrated by Jackson himself. It's kind of like telling people to not look at a train wreck.

I see the song Ben as a wish for a pet. I don't think Michael could have one due to his work schedule.

I never liked the song "Thriller" and I always thought the woman who co-danced with MJ in the starring roles looked like a hyena. I don't like zombie movies and stories from the zombie genre, but I did watch this 1983 classic simply because I'd see what everybody was raving about. While it was not my cuppa, I loved the dancing.

Good points about "Leave Me Alone." Michael WAS thumbing his nose at Devil's Radio, aka the media. I liked his Red Baron helmet and goggles.

It is a beautifully filmed video, with the newspapers blaring their rude headlines and the moving images. Yeah, where Michael Jackson was concerned, it was like telling people to turn away from a train wreck when you know you can't.

VersusBatman

Jul 14, 2009, 08:44 PM

Yeah. To quote the Nostalgia Critic:

"Are you kidding me? You just spent the first half hour of this movie begging you to look at you!"

"Michael, we would love to leave you alone. But you often make it so difficult. It's like telling us to stop looking at a train wreck. It's not going to happen!"

Hari's Chick

Jul 14, 2009, 10:18 PM

I think it's normal to desire positive attention and not want negative attention. So then of course, Michael was an entertainer and wanted to please people by entertaining. What he did NOT want was all the mean scrutiny. I mean, who would?

I don't see him as a train wreck at all. I see him as a man true to himself in a world which aggressively imposes conformity. In this sense, he was much more sane than most.

Hari's Chick

Jul 14, 2009, 10:22 PM

Holy crap, I just heard "2000 Watts" for the first time ever today. What a kickass song. I hope there are more songs in the proverbial vault with his lower voice; it sounds so cryptic and awesome.

I agree!!!

JonnyLytnin

Jul 14, 2009, 10:36 PM

I'm sorta surprised that this Jackson thread is still going. I was able to go from the day of his passing until his memorial before I had to stop watching most of the coverage. At this point I just wanna know when he will be or was buried and then I'll be officially done.

Mike was a weirdo. It's not the same as being different or non-conformist. I'm not saying he touched any kids "inappropriately" but I am saying that he was involved in and did some pretty taboo things and if there was a Jackson-esque person living on your block I'd venture to guess that you'd not let your kids stay the night at his place, at least not without you staying too.

I remember when I was growing up that there were certain places and situations that my folks wouldn't let me get into. When I asked why, they said "It just doesn't look right." 9 times outta ten, their suspicions were correct.

As a singer, dancer, and entertainer he was truly one of the greats; As a human being in this society he was a weirdo. While I'd love to have met him and seen him do his magic on the stage or in the studio, I'd probably have to say that we meet up on neutral ground cause I'd be as nervous as a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs.

FPSHOT

Jul 14, 2009, 11:16 PM

The fact this thread is still running is simply because there are various people who want to share their thoughts about Michael.

When someone passes one of the things which come up are memories and thoughts, it happens with relatives and it happens with famous people like George and John and with other musicians here all the time. Apart from The Beatles we all have other artists we like so it is obvious that many people liked Michael Jackson's music just like I have played it from the 70's in to the 80's very often and whereas some people here identify Michael with Thriller which does not do justice to his work, it is obvious that his musical life is well followed here. Then the personal things come round and I find it quite sad to see some posts here in a negative way a day or a few days after his passing. Imagine you lose a relative and people gossip about him/her in such ways, that is heartbreaking, so also here for people who are in some way emotioned about Michael's passing. It's called respect.

Those who have no interest in the person or do not know him/her can simply stay away from posting. I see many posts about US TV people passing who I have never heard of so then I stay away. It's as simple as that.

To define Michael as a weirdo is apart from a personal view probably also based on non-awareness or non-understanding. To each his own. Maybe watch some of the videos posted here which make you maybe better understand?

I am one of I hope many who by looking at the real stuff got so much more respect for Michael and yes it is a pity that it happens after he passes, I admit right away but I also know I am not alone there and that these things happen more often.
We have discussed thinsg about Michael Jackson here before so it is not as if this is the first time and even then there were some good solid views from people here, which makes this place so good.

I also have respect for quite some other people I read about in books who lived in ancient histories, but believe it is better to know maybe 'afterwards' than not to know at all. i knew quite some things about Michael but learned a lot the past weeks which feels good. I am glad so much more is out in the open now.

But the good thing about this thread is that feelings are shared mostly based on different type of stories and real stories which come out now and have come out before and which are shared here so that people have a better view on the why this and why that in the stories about Michael.

Another thing is; tell me what is 'weird'. Have you seen the Bashir edited interview? Maybe not. To say Michael was weird is based on what you know of him so it all depends where you have that from and where you start to call someone weird. I can think of so many musicians I can call 'weird' from the few things I see about them and from them. When David Bowie first showed up with all his make up on many called it weird. His makeup in 1973 came from a little shop in Rome, Italy, that imports fantastic coloured powders and creams from India. Do we call it weird? When The Beatles did their Rooftop concert, old men wearing the usual hats and umbrellas called them weird. When another Michael with the first name after the best Beatle did some things in a toilet he also was called weird.
In the case of Michael Jackson a lot of the things which make people call him weird come from unawareness, or just from having a simple opinion which of course is to each his own right, but especially when someone passes it is sad that stories keep passing by which appear to be not true at all when you look at some inside stories and some observations.

Like I saw how Michael was very spiritual which for instance you can see how he brings his hands together like in the prayer Western way but comes from India and which you can see Olivia and Dhani do still and Ravi Shankar which is a very spiritual way to great someone like Michael spread so much love to his audiences when he did concerts. He seemed to finally feel safe and protected and free to do what he liked and what he loved to 'give' to people.

I do very much agree with you though that as a singer and entertainer he is top of the league. Just watch any Live show from him and try to imagine anyone even come close to how he does his act and with so much creativity and what people here call 'dancing' which does not even cover his hole act but yeah I would also have loved to have met him.

Many people who were not really close to him but did follow him along the way now come to realise what a special person he was and what a great entertainer for millions of people. He gave so much, also to children who came to Neverland and never before had enjoyed something so much. Now to compile all that to those weird stories which went on long ago about him and kids is not good and not nice and not respectable and maybe also not even logical if you look a little bit inside his side of the story. Respect that we are not all the same and respect that people's way of living is based on childhood where normally you are educated how to 'live' but once you get not so much of that, well then it does not go the route which people consider how it should go whilst at the same time that they think of Michael as a weirdo they think that everything they ever did is all very normal whilst there will probably be others who will have a second opinion about that.

Some guy wrote a good lyric about it all

It's easier to tell a lie than it is to tell the truth
It's easier to kill a fly than it is to turn it loose
It's easier to criticize somebody else
Than to see yourself

It's easier to give a sigh and be like all the rest
Who stand around and crucify you while you do your best
It's easier to see the books upon the shelf
Than to see yourself

It's easier to hurt someone and make them cry
Than it is to dry their eyes
I got tired of fooling around with other people's lies
Rather I'd find someone that's true

It's easier to say you won't than it is to feel you can
It's easier to drag your feet than it is to be a man
It's easier to look at someone eles's wealth
Than to see yourself