Lennon's adultery pact

[Lucy]

Extract from the new Norman book. I haven't bothered to read it.

Lennon's adultery pact: When John left Yoko for a year of reckless debauchery he told her 'you must take a lover too'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1069338/Lennons-adultery-pact-When-John-left-Yoko-year-reckless-debauchery-told-lover-too.html

During their first four years together as a couple, John Lennon and Yoko Ono spent virtually every minute of every day together.

Though they continued to exhilarate each other on a creative level, their physical relationship inevitably lost some of its initial blaze.

John's sexual drive remained as intense as ever, but Yoko was finding herself less able, or inclined, to deal with it.

She was an increasingly unresponsive lover and John taunted her that she was like a Victorian wife - 'you just lie there and think of England'.
More than friends: John Lennon with his assistant May Pang at the end of the Seventies

During their first four years together as a couple, John Lennon and Yoko Ono spent virtually every minute of every day together.

Though they continued to exhilarate each other on a creative level, their physical relationship inevitably lost some of its initial blaze.

John's sexual drive remained as intense as ever, but Yoko was finding herself less able, or inclined, to deal with it.

She was an increasingly unresponsive lover and John taunted her that she was like a Victorian wife - 'you just lie there and think of England'.

They often discussed the raging sexual hunger that had been so easy to indulge when he was on the road with The Beatles.

He had expected it to go away when he hooked up with Yoko, but it hadn't.

'I don't understand it,' he would tell her. 'I'm madly in love with you, but why do I still keep looking at girls in the street?'
He wasn't just looking. In New York, where they lived, they were invited to a party at the home of a Left-wing activist on the night of Richard Nixon's re- election to the White House in 1972.

Upset at Nixon winning again, John was totally out of his head on drugs, pills and drink.

Yoko recalls a girl there, 'not the kind you'd ever think John would be attracted to. She didn't come on to him at all, but he just pulled her and went into the next room'.

As the grunts and groans of her husband having sex with another woman came through the wall, somebody put on a Bob Dylan record to try to drown the noise and spare Yoko's blushes 'but we heard it anyway'.

She tried to stay calm, and asked one of her assistants to go in with a flower for John and tell him she still loved him.

The assistant, understandably, refused, and Yoko was left with much to think about.

'That situation really woke me up,' said Yoko.

She and John had sacrificed a lot to be together and it was worth it because they were so much in love.

Re-united: John and Yoko in 1980
'But if he wants to make it with another girl, what am I doing with him?'

But there was much else currently absorbing them and so the matter rested there for the present.

Outside the bedroom, their relationship seemed as frantically fruitful as ever.

They were both writing songs for new albums, and his latest lyrics abounded with adoring references to Yoko - 'I'm a fish and you're the sea'; 'Today I love you more than yesterday'; and 'Wherever you are, you are here'.

But John's sexual restlessness could not be ignored - and one day Yoko decided to confront it.

She remembers: 'We made love and it was very good - he was very good. It had nothing to do with the quality of the lovemaking.

'Then I said: "Look, John, are we going to be one of those old conservative couples who are together just because we're married?"'

They agreed it would do their relationship no harm if John had other sexual partners.

Surprisingly, apart from that one drunken lapse at the election night party, he had never been unfaithful to Yoko and, even with her compliance, he had no idea how to go about it.

He talked enviously about a fellow British rock star who simply went to the bar at the Plaza Hotel each night and sat there until some young woman picked him up and they adjourned to a suite.

'So do you want me to call the Plaza?' Yoko asked.

John said: 'Are you kidding? You're Mrs Lennon, how could you think that?'

'Well, what do you want then?' Yoko replied.

There was then some discussion, albeit not very serious, of whether he should stick to his own gender.

'John said: "It would hurt you like crazy if I made it with a girl. With a guy, maybe you wouldn't be hurt, because that's not competition. But I can't make it with a guy because I love women too much, and I'd have to fall in love with the guy and I don't think I can." '

Though eager to accept the sexual freedom Yoko was offering, John felt squeamish about doing anything under her nose in New York.

Inseparable: John Lennon and Yoko Ono at a news conference in New York in 1974 during the early stages of their relationship
'So then I suggested Los Angeles,' she remembers, 'and he just lit up.'

The problem was that, since his earliest days as a Beatle, he had never travelled anywhere alone or had to fend for himself.

Somebody would have to go with him. Yoko looked over the various young females in their circle and chose May Pang, a 22-year-old Chinese American who worked as an assistant to both of them.

She was good at her job, and extremely pretty.

'I said to John: "What about May?" He said: "Oh no, not May!" - but it was like he doth protest too much. I went to May and said: "You have to accompany John to LA because I have things to do here."'
'I didn't say: "Do it" or anything like that. It was just to be an assistant, to go there. But I knew what might happen, because he was never without somebody, never on his own.'

On John's side, the possessiveness and jealousy that had dominated and sometimes soured his relationship with Yoko disappeared completely - or seemed to.

If he was to be let off the leash, then so should she. He insisted that during their separation she must go out with other men so both of them would be equally guilty - and because he'd read that women who did not stay sexually active ran a higher risk of cancer.

He said he'd feel more comfortable if any affair she had was with a brother musician.

They even discussed a candidate, guitarist David Spinozza.

'David's so beautiful,' John said. 'I wouldn't mind having sex with him myself.'

So John flew to Los Angeles with May Pang, for what May thought would be a two-week stay.
A friend, former disc jockey Elliot Mintz, met them at the airport. To media interviewers, John said he and Yoko were simply taking a break from each other and there was nothing wrong with their marriage.

But to Mintz he told a different story. He said the separation was permanent and there was no suggestion that it was by mutual agreement.

'He said she'd kicked him out and he didn't know when or even if they'd be getting back together.'

John was to call the next 14 months his Lost Weekend, borrowing the title of Billy Wilder's film about alcoholism and urban loneliness.

Like that film, alcohol certainly loomed large in John's West Coast odyssey, as did loneliness and self-loathing.

'I hadn't been a bachelor since I was 20 or something, and I thought, Whoopee!' he would recall. But the reality of life without Yoko was 'god-awful'.

Fab Four: But John's increasingly crazed actions in LA were a disappointment for Beatles fans
According to Mintz, from the moment John reached LA, his one thought was returning to Yoko.

'He called her every day, saying: "When can I come home?"

'She'd also call me every day, to see how he was doing and check that he wasn't harming himself or making a fool of himself, though she certainly wasn't looking to get him back.

'Most of the time, John was in denial. But when he got drunk or high, he couldn't stop talking about her and how much he needed her.

'All the time it was, "What do I have to do to get out of here and back to her?" '

Yoko, too, found the separation hard, but was determined not to weaken. 'I'd never been without him before, and for the first two weeks after he'd gone, my whole body was shaking.

[Lucy]

But I didn't tell him that because he would have come back.

'I thought: "I have to get over this because I can't be in a position where my existence relies on being with somebody." '

Particularly when that somebody was as mixed-up and difficult as John.

On the telephone, his mood would veer between euphoria at his new-found freedom and reproachful homesickness.

When things were going well in LA, he'd tell Yoko: 'Oh, you're such a great, great wife, I can't believe it.'

But when things went wrong, he blamed her. 'How could you send me out here?'

He telegrammed a friend that 'Yoko and me are in hell'.

May Pang's precise role in the scenario would never be clear, least of all to May herself.

In the book she subsequently wrote, called Loving John, she portrayed herself as a young woman of strong Catholic scruples who was at first scandalised by the suggestion that she become John's mistress - even though, by her own account, they had already had a surreptitious fling in New York.

Everybody who came to know them as a couple remembers May as kind, sweet and almost supernaturally unselfish.

She was a wholly positive influence at a time when John most needed it.

Yet as Mintz recalls, she never quite attained the status of a rock star's 'old lady'.

One day John would be all over her in public, the next she would seem no more than his PA.

And there was never a moment when she did not feel that Yoko, back in New York, was watching, even directing, the plot's development.

Another of John's friends, photographer Bob Gruen, said: 'It wasn't like he left his wife for the mistress. He left his wife for wild times that his secretary oversaw.'

May was indisputably John's only public female companion during the Lost Weekend.
But privately, Gruen reckons, there were dozens of other women, who thereafter 'would really treasure that hour, that ten minutes, that night with John Lennon'.

Let off the lead, John 'hit the bottle like I was 19 or 20'. Los Angeles provided lots of dangerous drinking companions, such as the singer Harry Nilsson and The Who drummer Keith Moon.

Inspirational: The pair in 1968, when their relationship provided artistic ideas both used in their work
And as ever with John, just a couple of drinks changed him in an instant from irresistible charmer and jokester to surly, venom-tongued, trouble-seeking and often violent drunk.

'When he was in that state and a fan spotted him and came over for an autograph, it was pitiful,' Mintz remembers.

'This was the Beatle who had lifted us onto a higher plane of consciousness with his lyrics, and here he was spilling drink on his trousers and not able to form a coherent sentence.

'The look of letdown on people's faces was terrible.'

He even drank in the recording studio, a flagon of vodka at his feet, something he'd never done during his whole career as a Beatle.

John was now working with the legendary Motown record producer Phil Spector, who would arrive at the studio ostentatiously flashing a pistol in a shoulder holster.

One night, to emphasise that he would brook no artistic arguments, Spector drew the pistol and fired it into the air.

'Listen, Phil,' said Lennon, 'if you're gonna kill me, kill me, but don't mess with me ears. I need 'em.'

The session musicians who had to endure all this became progressively unhappier about what was being put on tape.

'There were some flashes of brilliance - with Phil and John working together, there had to be,' said one, 'but mostly the music crashed and burned.'

As did John. He had to be restrained during one session when the cocktail of vodka and 100-proof rock 'n' roll unlocked all his pent-up anguish over Yoko and he went berserk.

'He was lashing out at people and screaming her name,' one musician remembers.

In the car taking him back to the home he had borrowed from a friend, he had to be held down to stop him kicking out the vehicle's windows.

When they got there, he was trussed up with neckties to immobilise him while May fled to seek refuge in a hotel.

Escaping his flimsy bonds, John went on a rampage through the house, breaking furniture and uprooting a palm tree.

Yoko, meanwhile, was happily adjusting to single life. She was producing art and music with her usual energy.

She and John spoke constantly on the telephone - May Pang once counted 23 calls in a single day, some running into hours.

Through Mintz, acting as go-between, John continued to make clear how desperately he wanted to return, but the answer that always came back from Yoko was: 'He isn't ready yet.'

Eventually, John headed back to New York, ostensibly so he could help his drinking partner, Nilsson, finish recording an album away from the distractions of Los Angeles.
May came with him and they set up home in a small penthouse apartment overlooking the river.

To Bob Gruen, it became increasingly clear that John no longer wished to be with her.


Give peace a chance: The world-famous protest
'But she was the one who ran his life, made all his arrangements. He told me: "I don't know how to get rid of her 'cause she's my phone book." '

All the time, he was maintaining constant contact with Yoko and would regularly slip away to visit her at their apartment, even though she continued to say he was 'not ready' to come back permanently.

'It was very nice,' Yoko remembers. 'John would tell me all sorts of funny stories about the girl he'd met the night before and how it didn't go well, and I'd be saying what happened to me.

'We'd be laughing like crazy because both of us had bad times dating. I thought: "This is great. We're just going to be great friends."'

John was once more urging her to have affairs. 'Have sex, have sex,' he kept saying.

She protested that she didn't know how to find a partner. She had even taken up Chinese astrology and numerology in the hope that they would help her find someone.
John had a simpler solution. She should just go up to a man she fancied and say: 'Do you wanna f***?'

Yoko saw through this. 'He knew I could never do anything like that. I realised that what he was really saying was that he didn't want me to come on to another person romantically.'

It was just sex she needed, he advised her.

He was so insistent that she finally picked up the phone and rang a musician John thought would be suitable for her for this purpose.

'But he sounded so high that I just hung up. Other people John suggested I didn't like because they were heavy meat-eaters.

'John said: "Oh, Yoko - if you're so particular, you're never going to find anybody." '

Which was perhaps what he really wanted all along.

It was Elton John who finally brought them back together. He was the great pop sensation in America that year, on tour and assaulting the U.S. charts just as The Beatles had done a decade earlier.

They had met in Los Angeles, and John took to him immediately.

He envied Elton's facility as a songwriter and his virtuoso piano playing.

Nor was he totally averse to the camp private world of Elton and his circle, where men were commonly referred to as 'she' and nicknames like Sharon and Ada freely bestowed.

John they called 'Catherine'. John had promised Elton that he would sing with him at the last concert on his tour at Madison Square Garden, and there was to be no wriggling out of it.

Not so long ago, with Yoko and the Plastic Ono Band at his side, he would have walked into any arena with anyone.

But now he found the prospect of facing a new, young, glam-rock audience, never mind competing with such a mythic showman and extrovert as Elton, terrifying.

There was no official announcement of his appearance, but rumours were rife and Elton's people were besieged by illustrious claimants for the VIP front rows.

One of the first was from Yoko, insisting she wanted to be near the stage but out of John's direct sight line.

And no one must let him know she intended to be there.

At the last moment he almost chickened out but old Beatle campaign reflexes triumphed and he reported backstage on schedule in a plain black suit, looking as if he were about to mount the scaffold.

A messenger arrived with two boxes, one for him and one for Elton.

Each contained a white gardenia from Yoko.

'Thank goodness she's not here,' John said as he waited nervously, so racked with stage fright that he threw up.

'Otherwise I know I'd never be able to go out there.'

When he finally walked on, the whole audience leapt to their feet. 'He got a terrific reception,' Yoko remembers, 'but when he bowed, it was too quickly and too many times.

And suddenly I thought: "He looks so lonely up there." '

But to the audience he seemed back in his element, and by the time the John-John partnership had finished with I Saw Her Standing There, which had been the very first track on the very first Beatles album back in 1963, Madison Square Garden was beside itself.

John Lennon would never make another stage appearance, but in this final one he never felt more loved.

[Lucy]

Afterwards, Yoko came backstage and they sat for a long time, catching up and holding hands.

A passing photographer snapped them together, as lost in each other as two virgins on a first date.

'John was like he wanted to eat me up or something,' Yoko remembers.

'But I said: "Oh, please don't start this again."

I really didn't want to get back together, because I thought it would be the same thing all over again.'

But John kept up his campaign, begging to move back home, using every possible emotional lever.

Yoko almost succumbed when he played her an album track he had just recorded called Bless You, which was pointedly addressed to her.

'It was such a beautiful song. I cried, John cried and we hugged each other. I had to be so strong-willed about it.

'I said: "Go." He said: "OK," and didn't try to fight it.'

Another pretext for a visit was that Yoko had managed to give up smoking and he wanted to try the same method.

Again she tried to keep their meeting business-like, until he said: 'So I really burnt the bridge, right? You won't let me come back.'

She recalls: 'And it was said in such a sad way that I said: "OK, you can." I was thinking to myself: "What am I saying?" But I couldn't help it.'

• Abridged extract from JOHN LENNON: THE LIFE by Philip Norman, published by HarperCollins at £25. Copyright Philip Norman 2008.

[Dr Winston]

Great book, true and frank. It will hit some Lennon fans hard, but it's the best read for many years. John Lennon was normal, not a saint.

[kmac]

Thanks for posting this excerpt, Lucy.

I have to admit to having a little guilty voyeuristic pleasure while reading these alleged recounts from the lost weekend.

It is beautiful and refreshing to see how in the end, the depth of John and Yoko's mutual love was undeniable. Their love saw them through tumultuous times and great sacrifice. Their lives are testament to the recurring Beatle message I cherish most : All You Need is Love.

I just may have to give this book a read.

[zipp]

He uprooted a palm tree with his bare hands?

[hibgal]

A small potted palm tree, of course! :teeth1:

I'm curious though: Have this Norman guy interviewed Yoko and is she endorsing this book? Because if he hasn't how DOES he know what she said or didn't say? He was the third fly on the wall? :thinker:

[SF4-EVER]

If you look at this thread (http://www.beatlelinks.net/forums/showthread.php?t=36610), which has another excerpt from the same book, it says that Yoko did grant Norman interviews.

[Freda_Peeple]

Thanks for posting this excerpt. It's a fascinating read.

[maxeythecat]

Okay, here's some time-line misinformation right off the bat...How could Norman say that "Bless You" was a song that John'd just finished in the studio after his November stage appearance with Elton when in fact it'd already been released two months earlier?? Walls and Bridges was issued by Capitol on September 26th 1974...John played onstage with Elton on Thanksgiving day November 28th 1974, and judging from the excerpt Norman clearly states that the incident with John playing the song for Yoko happened AFTER the MSG show. Anyone who's a Beatlephile knows damned well that this timeline just does'nt fit. For a supposedly respected biographer such as Norman to make such a glaring mistake makes me really wonder just how much influence Yoko really had in regards to this book. Yeah, I know that she's gone on record saying that she's pissed about the books content etc... yet you have wee bitty fibs such as this that follow the Joko party line about his relationship with May Pang and dismiss her as nothing but a bubbleheaded dollyrocker that John used as nothing more than a fuckbuddy and a walking phonebook. If you ask me, it sounds like the Diana Her True Story propaganda all over again.

Afterwards, Yoko came backstage and they sat for a long time, catching up and holding hands.

A passing photographer snapped them together, as lost in each other as two virgins on a first date.

'John was like he wanted to eat me up or something,' Yoko remembers.

'But I said: "Oh, please don't start this again."

I really didn't want to get back together, because I thought it would be the same thing all over again.'

But John kept up his campaign, begging to move back home, using every possible emotional lever.

Yoko almost succumbed when he played her an album track he had just recorded called Bless You, which was pointedly addressed to her.

'It was such a beautiful song. I cried, John cried and we hugged each other. I had to be so strong-willed about it.

'I said: "Go." He said: "OK," and didn't try to fight it.'

Another pretext for a visit was that Yoko had managed to give up smoking and he wanted to try the same method.

Again she tried to keep their meeting business-like, until he said: 'So I really burnt the bridge, right? You won't let me come back.'

She recalls: 'And it was said in such a sad way that I said: "OK, you can." I was thinking to myself: "What am I saying?" But I couldn't help it.'

• Abridged extract from JOHN LENNON: THE LIFE by Philip Norman, published by HarperCollins at £25. Copyright Philip Norman 2008.

[beatlebangs1964]

This is very interesting and enlightening.

John was indeed lost without Yoko; a Plymouth without its Dodge mate/counterpart. We all know John acted a fool big time during that lost weekend and it takes an objective reading like this to put things into perspective.

John and Yoko needed each other, but perhaps Yoko was right that they needed time away from one another, a point with which John did not seem to agree. Still, it worked out for them and it was, as John said, just like starting over.

[hibgal]

How could Norman say that "Bless You" was a song that John'd just finished in the studio after his November stage appearance with Elton when in fact it'd already been released two months earlier??

To be fair, Norman doesn't say that. The expression "just recorded" is a floating and not exact time measure. Two months could be considered "just recorded" as well as something recorded the previous day. If it was the first time John had a chance to play it for Yoko, yes, it could fit. Possibly a misleading but not untrue statement.

just how much influence Yoko really had in regards to this book.

Considerable, I'd say. It's Yoko's story or the story Yoko remember or wants told, more or less. The factual bits are probably true but the interpretation is another matter. Do we believe Yoko all sweetness and understanding for instance? Its also quite possible she's not deliberately putting a spin on things but it's been, what, forty years since she first met John? Obviously all details won't stay sharp in the mind for so long time. We all tend to see the past through tinted glasses, one way or another colored by our experiences over the years. That's human nature and Yoko's as susceptible to it as anyone else.

Personally I don't think there's any one biography that captures the complete and full John Lennon. Reputable biographers, such as Norman, each add a piece to the puzzle, but the whole I doubt is known to any one human. Besides, if we knew everything about John, would he continue to fascinate nearly three decades after his death?

[FrozenTennis]

Oh my gosh, I feel really bad for Yoko. Thanks for sharing that really interesting article, Lucy.

[Ged]

Well in Lucy - a great read.

[Dr Winston]

Oh Lennon, you cheeky boy!

[Loony_leo]

Oh wow....the bit about him going off into the other room with the chick at the party, poor Yoko!

Again she tried to keep their meeting business-like, until he said: 'So I really burnt the bridge, right? You won't let me come back.'

She recalls: 'And it was said in such a sad way that I said: "OK, you can." I was thinking to myself: "What am I saying?" But I couldn't help it.'

That bit just tugged at the old heart strings a little....

I don't care what people say about Yoko, or how she has a tendency to sell out John's image, they really did love each other!

I REALLY want to read this book, but its like 800 pages long and I've got ALOT of readings for University to do....

[dogman]

"Oh my gosh, I feel really bad for Yoko. Thanks for sharing that really interesting article, Lucy."

i could never feel bad for that woman whatever happens to her, she is detestable in my eyes.

[instant karla]

a bunch of hooey. i think much of this is just yoko's attempt (and john's, when he was still alive) to perpetuate the j&y as legendary lovers myth. they both wanted to have flings and made up these stories to fend off the world's collective "i told ya so."

[Loony_leo]

a bunch of hooey. i think much of this is just yoko's attempt (and john's, when he was still alive) to perpetuate the j&y as legendary lovers myth. they both wanted to have flings and made up these stories to fend off the world's collective "i told ya so."

hmm that is an interesting take on it Karla!

And you do have to wonder...how much of this is true, how much is the author's creation, and also how much involvement did yoko have and how much "spin" did she put on things...

[MaccaGirl2891]

Oh, Yoko, how controlling...

[ilianna]

i could never feel bad for that woman whatever happens to her, she is detestable in my eyes.

Yes same here. I will never feel bad for her.

[Starshyne]

I am still reading this book and haven't gotten to this point yet. Right now I have put the book down in tears because I was feeling so sad for poor Cyn. Having just went through a divorce myself due to my (x)husband having an affair and wanting to with with the other woman and not me, I know extactly what she felt. Only hers was magnified because her husband was John Lennon and he was out in public with his new lover while she was alone. At least no one knows me! lol

I do look forward to reading more later today. I hope to get the book read by the beginning of the New year.

[peacewithlennon]

Women are controlling by nature, trust me I am one lol!

[BertoneBeatle]

Again with the "JOHN AND YOKO GOT BACK TOGETHER AT THE ELTON JOHN CONCERT" myth which records and stuff from John himself has proven wrong.

[adayinthelifeforever]

Oh Wow!
How interesting reading...
I´d love to read the book! Last year I read the Cyn book and it was equally fascinating, but this one refers to another aspects of John´s life. I was really glued to the screen during all the reading!

[glennan]

He interviewed Yoko, so the "Elton John concert" story was going to come up again. We all knew it would, that story's been going around for a while, and partly because it's the official line. And partly because there is photo proof they did talk backstage at the concert. If she saw it as them getting back together, that could be her viewpoint. As Harry Nilsson put it, "there are many points to view."

[wildewoman]

Yes same here. I will never feel bad for her.

How compassionate.

[DevonAokiFan]

May Pang's precise role in the scenario would never be clear, least of all to May herself..........

Yet as Mintz recalls, she never quite attained the status of a rock star's 'old lady'...........

May was indisputably John's only public female companion during the Lost Weekend.
But privately, Gruen reckons, there were dozens of other women, who thereafter 'would really treasure that hour, that ten minutes, that night with John Lennon'.



Oh yeah, Gruen, "dozens"... I mean, not 2 or 3 or even 10 other women... but "dozens" !!!

Well, if you're gonna make an outrageous claim like that... don't you think a little proof might be in order...
and Norman, shouldn't you have insisted on the provision of a little evidence before casually tossing what Gruen "reckons" into your book ???

This is a blatant affront to the John Lennon/May Pang relationship...

yet neither, Gruen, Norman nor the book's publisher have provided the identity of even one of these women !!!

I think we have a serious credibility problem here.


Justin

[DevonAokiFan]

Bob Gruen:

But privately, Gruen reckons, there were dozens of other women, who thereafter 'would really treasure that hour, that ten minutes, that night with John Lennon'.

Assuming Bob Gruen is correct, many of those women "would really treasure that hour, that ten minutes, that night with John Lennon".

But all of them ???

Of the "dozens", what would the be the percentage of these women who'd dash off to the tabloid press, armed with their gratuitous, steamy 'Kiss and Tell' exposé?

If these "dozens" had so little moral fibre to give themselves so readily to a rock star... they are hardly the type of women to turn their backs on an easy couple of grand.

Unbelievable... it's totally unbelievable that the book's publisher allowed Norman and Gruen to propose such a seemingly absurd insinuation.


Justin

[DevonAokiFan]

Yet as Mintz recalls, she (May Pang) never quite attained the status of a rock star's 'old lady'.

Ladies and gentlemen, sit yourselves down, and please, make yourselves comfortable for part three of my review of Philip Norman's publication. lol

We read that May Pang "never quite attained the status of a rock star's 'old lady'."

OK...

May pang lived with Lennon, she slept with Lennon, she worked (in the studio) with Lennon, she produced albums with Lennon, she travelled everywhere with Lennon, she was always present for Lennon, standing by him at both his professional and personal times... like the the reunion with Julian and the signing of the documents that disolved the Beatles... she spent practically every day with Lennon for the whole Lost Weekend (18 months)...

Lennon told May he loved her. Lennon told biographer Larry Kane that he loved May. Lennon wrote, and dedicated, the song 'Surprise Surprise' to May in which he told the whole friggin world that he loved her.

So yeah, maybe Norman and Mintz might like to point out what else Pang should've done to have achived the status of a rock star's 'old lady'.

I tell ya... if the rest of Norman's book is as credible/accurate as the sections about May Pang, then his publication is a total crock.


easy... Justin

[DrWinstonOboggie]

I have just got this book 2 days ago and i'm on page 209 only another 600 to go!!!

[John Cee]

Oh yeah, Gruen, "dozens"... I mean, not 2 or 3 or even 10 other women... but "dozens" !!!

Well, if you're gonna make an outrageous claim like that... don't you think a little proof might be in order...
and Norman, shouldn't you have insisted on the provision of a little evidence before casually tossing what Gruen "reckons" into your book ???

This is a blatant affront to the John Lennon/May Pang relationship...

yet neither, Gruen, Norman nor the book's publisher have provided the identity of even one of these women !!!

I think we have a serious credibility problem here.


Justin
That's exactly the type of stuff Norman did in SHOUT, which is why I found the book such a disappointment, especially after seeing it refered to as one of the best and most thorough Beatles biographies available. (I'm talking about the 2003 updated version -- I've never read the original 1981 version of SHOUT). For example, Norman writes about George Harrison that the rockiest moment of his marriage to Olivia came when an LA prostitute, identified only as "Tiffany", named him as one of her clients, and claimed that while she performed a sexual service on him, he stood playing a George Formby tune on his ukelele. What sort of attribution is that? Sounds like something out of a tabloid doesn't it? If you're going to report a story like that in a so-called "True Story of the Beatles", don't you also need to back it up with something more substantial? Of course, I suppose if the person you're writing about is safely dead, he's not going to argue with you. (I'm impressed that a hooker named Tiffany would recognize a George Formby tune when she heard one!)
And SHOUT is full of factual inaccuracies -- inaccuracies that are easy to check out. So I have to say that if I do end up reading Norman's book on Lennon (and I likely will one of these days), I will expect a lot of gossip, a lot of mangled facts, some accurate stuff, and some pretty well-written prose.

[DevonAokiFan]

I have just got this book 2 days ago and i'm on page 209 only another 600 to go!!!

If Norman hadn't have included stuff that people "reckoned"...
and if he'd left out all the stuff which couldn't be properly substantiated...

then yeah, Dr Winston O Boggie...
Norman's book probably wouldn't have required 209 pages. lol


easy... Justin

[DevonAokiFan]

John Cee

That's exactly the type of stuff Norman did in SHOUT,

If you're going to report a story like that in a so-called "True Story of the Beatles", don't you also need to back it up with something more substantial?

Agree, credibility should be absolutely manditory, John Cee...
and yeah, publishers should insist on it.

But a controversial book without proof is gonna sell a lot more copies
than a properly researched account that's lacking in sensationalism.


easy... Justin

[mluque125]

I haven't read this book yet, but I'm dying to do so. I haven't read it partly because I'm afraid it will disappoint me.

[beatlebangs1964]

I've enjoyed the book, mluque. John is not written wearing rose colored glasses nor is his author wearing them either. John is NOT placed on a pedastal and all I can tell you is that I think the book is worth the read.

We all know John could act a fool big time and there are many documented instances of when John acted a fool during that lost weekend. I think Yoko was his anchor.

[Gloi]

The George/prostitute/ukulele story originated in this book - You'll Never Make Love in this Town Again - It wasn't something unearthed by Philip Norman, just re-quoted by him. The book came out in 1996.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Youll-Never-Make-Love-Again/dp/1597775428

[Beatle Girl]

Wow, that's quite interesting, thanks for posting it.
Sincerely is a hard book (judging by the parts I've read) but helps to see John as the human he was and not as a God from the Mount Olympus.
Kinda impresses me but after all it was the truth.

[DizzyMissLizzy]

I saw this book at the bookstore and want it but what I read here I probably could've gone my whole life without knowing...*goes to wash brain out with bad music I normally wouldn't listen to just to get rid of the mental images* LOL you all know I'm just kidding, I'm not that immature. XD

[Hari's Chick]

I saw this book at the bookstore and want it but what I read here I probably could've gone my whole life without knowing...*goes to wash brain out with bad music I normally wouldn't listen to just to get rid of the mental images* LOL you all know I'm just kidding, I'm not that immature. XD


:laugh5:

My mother in law got it for me for Christmas, but I keep meaning to exchange it. I read the George parts. lol. One thing which stood out was the part about how John felt slighted about George's not mentioning John enough in his autobiography, "I, Me, Mine." Well, I knew that. But this book says, "actually, John received eleven mentions- more than Paul, the Beatles, Eric Clapton, or even George's second wife, Olivia." That's kind of interesting. So George didn't slight John at all. He just held his cards close.

[mluque125]

:laugh5:

My mother in law got it for me for Christmas, but I keep meaning to exchange it. I read the George parts. lol. One thing which stood out was the part about how John felt slighted about George's not mentioning John enough in his autobiography, "I, Me, Mine." Well, I knew that. But this book says, "actually, John received eleven mentions- more than Paul, the Beatles, Eric Clapton, or even George's second wife, Olivia." That's kind of interesting. So George didn't slight John at all. He just held his cards close.


Yeah I've read that about John being offended about that. I think he mentioned it in the Playboy interview (not sure), but I'm sure there are other sources of him saying it. He went on about helping him write songs and such. I have yet to read I, Me, Mine surprisingly, but I'm ordering it off ebay tomorrow or the next day, I can't wait! And as for You'll Never Make Love in this Town Again and the Norman book - haven't read them yet and I'm still afraid to do so haha. But I will probably end up doing that in the next few weeks.

Have a lot of reading to look forward to!

[mluque125]

I've enjoyed the book, mluque. John is not written wearing rose colored glasses nor is his author wearing them either. John is NOT placed on a pedastal and all I can tell you is that I think the book is worth the read.

We all know John could act a fool big time and there are many documented instances of when John acted a fool during that lost weekend. I think Yoko was his anchor.


I agree about Yoko being his anchor. I'll be sure to read it, I'm sure I won't get TOO surprised by the information in it since I've read enough talks about it haha.

[Gary910]

I believe what Larry Kane has to say, I think he is credible. Norman on the other hand...well, I am unsure. I think that Elliot Mintz has too much invested. He is/was a Yoko employee, so he has a lot to protect, and thus tell the story as Yoko would have it told.

I have a hard time believing that May was just a bed partner and phone book. I think May was so much more than that. I believe John loved May. The story goes that they still had their affair going around the horrible events of 1980. Obviously, in a much more limited capacity. I don't think Yoko was satisfying John. I forget exactly which song it is, and I forget the exact quote, and I should know it, but he says something like, "Spend some time with me and Sean. Stop selling cows." (It will come to me later.) John was not feeling like he got the attention he wanted. He probably was going elsewhere for that attention.

[DevonAokiFan]

I have a hard time believing that May was just a bed partner and phone book.

She was much more, Gary...
Lennon only ever lived with three women... and May was one of them.

In my previous posts in this thread I point out how inacurate Norman's references are towards May Pang:

May pang lived with Lennon, she slept with Lennon, she worked in the studio with Lennon, she produced albums with Lennon, she traveled everywhere with Lennon, she was always present for Lennon, standing by him at both his professional and personal times... like the reunion with Julian and the signing of the documents that dissolved the Beatles.

May spent practically every day with Lennon for the whole 18 months of the 'Lost Weekend'.

Lennon told May he loved her. Lennon told biographer Larry Kane that he loved May. Lennon wrote, and dedicated, the song 'Surprise Surprise' to May in which he told the whole world that he loved her!

May Pang was awarded a RIAA gold record for her production on Walls and Bridges... which incidently, was Lennon's only #1 album during his lifetime.

So yeah, you're right, Gary... thats a hell-of-a-lot more than just a bed partner and a phone book.

Check out my May Pang/Lost weekend site below and you'll be astonishised just how important a role May Pang actually played in Lennon's life.


easy... Justin

[LucyLennon4me]

Oh brother have YOU bought the hype.

May Pang was assigned to John by Yoko. It was never his choice to be with her. John lived with her only because Yoko told him too. Why did he do that? Because he cheated on Yoko at a party and Yoko told him to go live with May until he gets his oats out of his system. There was no love affair, no great romance, in fact if you read her first book, she says John left her alone for the entire month of May 1974 in California. Plus he was not faithful to her, just read Angel Godivas posts here in the forum. She was with John for most of the time John and May were in LA. So don't buy this overinflated portrait that May was something special. She WAS a babysitter, bed partner and phone book.

[DevonAokiFan]

Oh brother have YOU bought the hype.

May Pang was assigned to John by Yoko. It was never his choice to be with her. John lived with her only because Yoko told him to.


Hype ???

Are you telling us that John Lennon was so pathetic he did everything that Yoko "told him to"?

Lennon always resented that.

So, lets put aside both yours and my opinions, and yeah, let's see what Lennon himself had to say in 1980:


PLAYBOY: But what about the charge that John Lennon is under Yoko's spell, under her control?

LENNON: Well, that's rubbish, you know. Nobody controls me. I'm uncontrollable. The only one who controls me is me, and that's just barely possible.


How clear is that, LucyLennon4me ???


easy... Justin

[LucyLennon4me]

No it's not about being under a spell. Lennon agreed to Yoko's wishes to atone for his adultery in the hopes they would reunite. In fact Lennon said in an interview that he always knew he and Yoko would reunite.

He was not faithful to May, that is a fact May herself has admitted. However May has no idea that he cheated so many times on her. Besides, it's not cheating if she was only a mistress, as a mistress is not a wife. The hype is that people think May was so much more then what she really was which was an assignment and a babysitter.

[DevonAokiFan]

...

Its no secret that Yoko initiated the Lennon/Pang relationship...

Even before she begins her story (on the second page of her book), May herself includes this segment as part of an insertion...

'.... the relationship between May and John was essentially initiated, controlled and then terminated by Yoko Ono.'


Lennon wasn't faithful to any of the women in his life.

He cheated on Cynthia... as you pointed out, he cheated on Yoko... and May herself documents an account of Lennon cheating on her.

The only reason why all three of those women put up with Lennon's drunkenness & womanizing was because he was 'John Lennon'.

But to say that Pang was no more than an assignment and a babysitter, as you yourself obviously know, is absurd.

A quick poke around my site will show that she played more than a significant role in Lennon's life.


easy... Justin

[LucyLennon4me]

Fair enough. You make valid points.

[wildewoman]

Hype ???

Are you telling us that John Lennon was so pathetic he did everything that Yoko "told him to"?

Lennon always resented that.

So, lets put aside both yours and my opinions, and yeah, let's see what Lennon himself had to say in 1980:


PLAYBOY: But what about the charge that John Lennon is under Yoko's spell, under her control?

LENNON: Well, that's rubbish, you know. Nobody controls me. I'm uncontrollable. The only one who controls me is me, and that's just barely possible.


How clear is that, LucyLennon4me ???


easy... Justin
***
Interesting. So, Lennon *wasn't* under Yoko's spell. But May Pang pretty much says that he was--that he was brainwashed by Yoko to leave May and return to her if I remember rightly. Ok. Makes tons of sense to me. Thanks.

[beatlebangs1964]

Well said, HC. George DID keep his cards close.

As for John, I don't think anybody "brainwashed" or "controlled" him. He loved Yoko so much that he went to great lengths to be with her and it sounds like his "lost weekend" period was the darkest period of his adult life.

Yoko, from the telling did encourage John to see others during that time. His affair with May Pang was not secret and to this day May speaks of John with respect. I met her once years ago and was impressed with her forthright demeanor and her loving portrayal of John AND Yoko. At all times she spoke of them with respect.