Any finger-pickers out there?

[62hofner]

I've been playing guitar for many, many years but I never mastered finger style.

I am presently trying to learn "Don't Think Twice" by Bob Dylan.... very slowly and painfully at that! :cry3:

I can hear the bass line (thumb picking), but am having trouble with picking up the hammer-ons during the thumb picking. :nono4:

Any tips? I have a feeling it's just something one has to get the hang of and then it become almost second nature.

Thanks!

[Harbidge]

Can't help you there I'm afraid. The only finger-picking style I can do is a lá Paul on Mother Nature's Son.

[62hofner]

Yeah, I've got that song as well as "Julia" down-pat. But, all that intricate finger picking that Dylan does so well is still a mystery to me.

[erinluv182]

Wow! I am impressed by anyone who will even attempt finger picking, cause I think it's really hard. The only song I can finger pick on (and very slowly, mind you) is "Blackbird", and Paul himself has said that he doesn't really consider it to be genuine finger picking, so there you go. :blush4:

So I don't know how much weight my words have, but from what I've found by playing the guitar, just keep at it and keep practicing, and I bet you'll get it.

[62hofner]

Wow! I am impressed by anyone who will even attempt finger picking, cause I think it's really hard. The only song I can finger pick on (and very slowly, mind you) is "Blackbird", and Paul himself has said that he doesn't really consider it to be genuine finger picking, so there you go. :blush4:

So I don't know how much weight my words have, but from what I've found by playing the guitar, just keep at it and keep practicing, and I bet you'll get it.

Yeah, Paul does a lot of pseudo-finger style like on "Blackbird" and "Yesterday" where he picks two strings in unuison and then switches to a strumming pattern throughout.

Thanks for the words of encouragement. Haven't been able to practice in over a week because I sliced my left middle finger on a sheet of tin foil(!). Ouch!!! :cry3:

[guitargirl]

I can only do the basic travis style finger-picking. Nothing too intricate.
I think learning it very slowly, getting the pattern fried into your brain, and then picking up speed as you get the hang of it is the best way.

[PepperlandFrog]

Blackbird is an intricate and complex song, where does one get the pseudo from, like really. :rolleyes:

[62hofner]

Blackbird is an intricate and complex song, where does one get the pseudo from, like really. :rolleyes:

One gets "pseudo from, like really :rolleyes:" from the fact that it's not that intricate and complex - I learned it in like two minutes once my ear-to-hand skills got to a certain better-than-beginner's level.

Besides all that... I am referring to the finger picking Paul does in that song. It's not true finger-style. Same goes for songs like "Put It There", "Mother Nature's Son", etc., etc. Songs that are all gorgeous and fun to play. But not at all intricate in the finger-style realm

[PepperlandFrog]

Blackbird is an intricate and complex song, i don't see the validity or necessity of you making this rather unfortunate statement.

You seem quick to want to rely on a fuzzy and very poorly defined, i might add, definition for finger-picking, this sactimonious inclusion i clearly do not understand and reject prima facie, really you are not making any sense at all. :rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqUxIqkLlNQ

[62hofner]

Blackbird is an intricate and complex song, i don't see the validity or necessity of you making this rather unfortunate statement.

You seem quick to want to rely on a fuzzy and very poorly defined, i might add, definition for finger-picking, this sactimonious inclusion i clearly do not understand and reject prima facie, really you are not making any sense at all. :rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqUxIqkLlNQ

PepperlandFrog, "Blackbird" is a beautiful piece of songwriting. But if you see it as "intricate and complex" when it comes to playing, well I suggest you hang up the guitar and take up the triangle. You're obviously in over your head with the guitar.

You always misconstrue what I say. All I said was that Paul's finger-picking style was a "pseudo finger-style". That's a simple fact. I made no mention of the songs' "complexity" or its "intricacy". YOU brought those things up - and rather unwisely, at that!

Paul himself refers to his "finger picking" on "Blackbird" as not genuine finger picking. You want to argue with THAT? Go ahead. Argue with it, if you wish - the same way you argued with George's own words regarding the crappy sound he was getting from his Gretsch guitar and Vox amp combination in the early days. You were wrong then, you're wrong now. Quit while you're behind, huh?

... and you may reject whatever you wish to - "prima facie". Ask me if I care.

[PepperlandFrog]

hofner, putting your remote, suspicious and compleatly superficial remarks aside for the moment, you have proven nothing. And in the bargain you of course have apparently failed to define what does and does not qualify for finger picking as far as guitar goes, which goes to the heart of the matter here. Perhaps you can clear this up. And please don't worry about my guitar playing skills, thanks for the thumbs up my man. :thumbu1: And even worse you once again directly avoid the question of the intricate and complex beauty of Blackbird, putting aside all reasonable inquiry - one has to ask why. Again i can only reject your careless statements, vapid/hollow/surplus rejoinders and pseudo-conjecture prima facie. And i don't misconstrue anything you say, that is a questionable misconstruction on your part my friend, please tell us how you arrived at that remarkable conclusion. Honestly... i am glad you play guitar and take pride in doing so, and can find the happiness and energy to come here and share your thoughts, ideas and opinions, extreme as they may be. :laugh5: :barf3:

[62hofner]

Paul "finger-plucks".... he does not play fingerstyle on ANY Beatles song.

Fingerstyle Defined: "FINGER-PICKING is a Southern-based American instrumental guitar style. Many people incorrectly use the term "Finger-Picking" to mean any right hand style in which the fingers pluck or pull strings. Most of these styles should be simply called "plucking styles." Finger-Picking is a specific and complex melody style which allows one guitar to do the work of two by placing a treble-string melody over a constant bass-string accompaniment. Most Finger-Pickers use a steel-string guitar which is preferable both for its bright, penetrating sound and for its "quicker" narrow neck."
Bob Baxter, 1967

http://members.fortunecity.com/pgkuchar/

[PetePointon]

With respect, 62hofner, Bob Baxter's definition there is very narrow and even pedantic (and rather odd given the inclusivity of his own guitar workshops). Guitarists from the thrumming monotonic bass thumpers like Mance Lipscomb through the intricate folkie sophistication of Martin Simpson to jazz greats like Martin Taylor would describe themselves as fingerpickers.

Besides, on Blackbird and Mother Nature's Son Paul does exactly what Baxter descibes, playing the trebles over basses moving on the sixth, fifth and fourth strings. True, he's not playing alternating basses, but they are hardly a rule of fingerstyle: heck, greats like Blind Blake and Gary Davis often leaned into single string lines, which he certainly does not. What he is doing, by the way, is reminiscent of both classical playing (yes, it is a species of fingerstyle, and certainly a direct ancestor of country blues styles) and a way that Blind Lemon Jefferson sometimes used to navigate the fingerboard. I think when Paul says he doesn't fingerpick he means he hasn't studied it as a discipline, or taken pointers from Donovan, as John did in Rishikesh.

On your original question, one way to develop an independent thumb is to exercise it without specifically fingerpicking. Listen to country players like Maybelle Carter playing the old "hit the bass with the thumb then strum down with thumb or fingers" alternating styles and work on moving through chords that way: Johnny Cash's Sun material is great for practicing on. Apart from learning another useful style you'll find that the thumb very quickly becomes independent and you can move to rolling through chords (playing trebles on the off beats), then pinching out melody lines.

[62hofner]

With respect, 62hofner, Bob Baxter's definition there is very narrow and even pedantic (and rather odd given the inclusivity of his own guitar workshops). Guitarists from the thrumming monotonic bass thumpers like Mance Lipscomb through the intricate folkie sophistication of Martin Simpson to jazz greats like Martin Taylor would describe themselves as fingerpickers.

Besides, on Blackbird and Mother Nature's Son Paul does exactly what Baxter descibes, playing the trebles over basses moving on the sixth, fifth and fourth strings. True, he's not playing alternating basses, but they are hardly a rule of fingerstyle: heck, greats like Blind Blake and Gary Davis often leaned into single string lines, which he certainly does not. What he is doing, by the way, is reminiscent of both classical playing (yes, it is a species of fingerstyle, and certainly a direct ancestor of country blues styles) and a way that Blind Lemon Jefferson sometimes used to navigate the fingerboard. I think when Paul says he doesn't fingerpick he means he hasn't studied it as a discipline, or taken pointers from Donovan, as John did in Rishikesh.



If you listen to "Julia", that is what I consider true fingerstyle. John is playing an alternating bass line while playing the upper strings on top of them in a fluid movement. It's not intricate fingerstyle, but fingerstyle nonetheless.

Here's the thing... I can play "Mother Nature's Son", "Blackbird", "Yesterday", etc., etc.. spot-on. It's a picked bass note here followed by some strumming there, and so on......

However, trying to learn a song like "Don't Think Twice" is more of a challenge. It requires coordination from the player - like he or she must split their brain down the middle. It requires a certain discipline that "Blackbird finger plucking" does not require. This is what I have based it all on. Anyone can alternate plucking bass notes and strumming patterns to achieve a satisfying result that sounds good. I love duplicating how Paul plays, but it's not true fingerstyle.

Thanks for the advice on how to develop my playing. I made some decent progress in my last practice session.

[PepperlandFrog]

Paul "finger-plucks".... he does not play fingerstyle on ANY Beatles song.

Fingerstyle Defined: "FINGER-PICKING is a Southern-based American instrumental guitar style. Many people incorrectly use the term "Finger-Picking" to mean any right hand style in which the fingers pluck or pull strings. Most of these styles should be simply called "plucking styles." Finger-Picking is a specific and complex melody style which allows one guitar to do the work of two by placing a treble-string melody over a constant bass-string accompaniment. Most Finger-Pickers use a steel-string guitar which is preferable both for its bright, penetrating sound and for its "quicker" narrow neck."
Bob Baxter, 1967

http://members.fortunecity.com/pgkuchar/Thanks for the clarification, just wanted to make sure we were on the same page sir.

bG7y_CD9rMg

[62hofner]

Thanks for the clarification, just wanted to make sure we were on the same page sir.

bG7y_CD9rMg

This is Andres Segovia, isn't it. This is some insane classical/flamenco playing!

Listen.... as for our previous argument - if you want to refer to "Blackbird" as fingerstyle, go ahead. I suppose the term "fingerstyle" can be interpreted differently by different people.

All I know is that I am trying to learn "Don't Think Twice It's Alright" by Bob Dylan right now, and my fingers are getting tired and chewed-up in the process. It's a specialized and intricate form of fingerstyle that requires a lot of practice to master.

Songs like "Blackbird", "Mother Nature's Son" and more recent Paul songs like "Put It There" and "Great Day" I learned very easily. They are songs that required nothing more from me than the knowledge of the guitar that I already possessed as a traditional strummer and picker.

:wave1:

[PepperlandFrog]

This is Andres Segovia, isn't it. This is some insane classical/flamenco playing!

Listen.... as for our previous argument - if you want to refer to "Blackbird" as fingerstyle, go ahead. I suppose the term "fingerstyle" can be interpreted differently by different people.

All I know is that I am trying to learn "Don't Think Twice It's Alright" by Bob Dylan right now, and my fingers are getting tired and chewed-up in the process. It's a specialized and intricate form of fingerstyle that requires a lot of practice to master.

Songs like "Blackbird", "Mother Nature's Son" and more recent Paul songs like "Put It There" and "Great Day" I learned very easily. They are songs that required nothing more from me than the knowledge of the guitar that I already possessed as a traditional strummer and picker.

:wave1:Well yeah that's where i wanted to go with this. Yes somehow i forgot about the technical specifications, and i agree with what has been stated here. No you're right, had no idea, it's just that i spend an inordinate amount of time listening to that track, and trying to digest the lyrics good and proper like. Less is more, don't know any other way to say it sir.