Lennon had Brian Epstein killed? [Archive]

crispy

Jan 09, 2001, 03:33 PM

Does anyone know anything about the 1990 book by Sandra Shevey that claims that Lennon may have had Epstein killed in a dispute over money? It sounds outrageous, but Mojo mentions it in their special issue on Lennon. I can't seem to find any information on the book.

beatlegirl

Jan 09, 2001, 03:44 PM

I doubt thats true!Why would he have him killed Brian Epstein is what held the beatles together it wouldnt make sense for him to do that!

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autum's sweet we call it fall i'll make it to the moon if I have to crawl with the birds we'll share this lonely view

Lucy

Jan 09, 2001, 06:11 PM

I don't know anything about the book but that has to be one of the most crazy suggestions I've ever heard. I don't think I'd even waste my time reading it if that is what the author believes.

beatlemethisbeatlemethat

Jan 09, 2001, 06:34 PM

that's the first time ive ever heard that. I think it's crazy though.

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Peace, Love, and Beatles,
Stefanie

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//0-0\\//0-0\\//0-0\\
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--John Lennon

bearkat77

Jan 09, 2001, 09:03 PM

That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard. There's no possible way John would want to "off" Brian. Forget that book, if it even exists.

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Litl Lennon

Jan 10, 2001, 06:29 AM

that is even stupider than the yoko had john killed thing.

no offense to you crispy or anything.

-Chey

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-Litl Chey Lennon
Imagine all the people, sharing all the world...you may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one...

Tim

Jan 10, 2001, 06:38 AM

Sound like Goldman's garbage,his "book" The Lives Of John Lennon(a/k/a/ The Lies On John Lennon),had claims that John killed Stu.
Sad thing is,they can get away with it because he's dead and cannae defend himself in court.

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Tim
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The Church Beatle will now pass among you,and no foreign coins please.

Caesar of TimBrent.net (http://www.timbrent.net)

crispy

Jan 10, 2001, 06:52 AM

I appreciate the responses, and I don't take offense to anything you've said. I am a big Lennon fan, but I'm also a journalist and I've come to believe that JL was a very complex guy, a combination of the word's greatest humanitarian and (as Sean has said) an asshole. Do I think he had anything to do with Epstein's death? No. If he did, then he was an incredible actor, cause he sure looked shocked, spooked and hurt when he heard the news in Bangor. However, I never discount any possibility out of hand until I've checked the evidence for myself. Hence, my interest in obtaining the book.

lennon-mccartney

Jan 10, 2001, 07:59 AM

Welcome, journalist.

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http://www.angelfire.com/stars/LennonMcCartney/lennonmccartneylink.gif (http://www.angelfire.com/stars/LennonMcCartney)

rellington

Jan 19, 2001, 03:58 PM

i simply cant believe i read thru all these replies without any one standing up to say the obvious. does any one out there really think that one of our boys would have it in him to cause harm to another life???!!!doesnt that go against the very fabric of why we join here to remember. maybe we need to remember the lyrics guys.

rellington@cfl.rr.com
//o-o\\

Jan 19, 2001, 06:01 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by rellington:
does any one out there really think that one of our boys would have it in him to cause harm to another life???!!!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, we all know how John was in the early days... especially after a few drinks http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/wink.gif As for killing someone though, you're right, that's purely ridiculous. No way at all.

crispy

Jan 20, 2001, 08:06 AM

That's right. In 1980, Lennon confessed to fighting men and beating women, but said he was a violent man who had learned to deeply regret his violence.

The Beatles represented a lot of things, including peace and love. John was a big part of that, but he was also a damaged guy capable of some pretty awful behavior. Lennon's "peace and love" reputation smothers his true gift: His searing emotional honesty and determination to understand himself and the world. That's what sets him apart from any other artist of the 20th century.

And, I think the real John would hate being referred to as one of "the boys." As he also said, "I was never lovable. I was just Lennon."

Paul_McCartney2002

Jan 21, 2001, 03:01 PM

Didn't he O.D. if I'm right then I don't think John would have had him killed, unlees he put the drugs in his food or something

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SleepyHead

Jan 22, 2001, 06:05 AM

Do I think John had Eppy killed? Absolutely not.

Do I think he could have? Absolutely.

There is no such thing as a "typical" killer- and given the right circumstances, I think any of us would seriously consider ourselves ready for the nuthatch for thinking murderous thoughts.

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iFrog

Jan 25, 2001, 10:01 AM

Do i think that's what really happened? No. Does blaming somebody else for so much insane innuendo really help at all? Not unless you're really insane. Is the book, i.e. it's sources reliable? No way. Is that book a piece of rubbish. Absolutely. Is that what really happened? i don't know. Do i really care. Yes. Very strange. http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/frown.gif
http://www.users.drak.net/dragonfly99/images/aoxomoxa.gif

iFrog

Jan 25, 2001, 10:02 AM

Tim

Jan 25, 2001, 10:14 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Paul_McCartney2002:
Didn't he O.D. if I'm right then I don't think John would have had him killed, unlees he put the drugs in his food or something

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Brian did OD
He took a huge number of sleeping pills over Bank Holiday weekend in 1967 and accisdentally killed himself with the OD. Washing them down with alcohol didn't much help either.

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Tim
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The Church Beatle will now pass among you,and no foreign coins please.

Caesar of TimBrent.net (http://www.timbrent.net)

Jan 25, 2001, 02:45 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by iFrog:
http://www.users.drak.net/dragonfly99/images/aoxomoxa.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's... very... what is that?

iFrog

Jan 25, 2001, 05:06 PM

That is a jpg image file i found somewheres on the "net. It is an original artwork by Rick Griffin, of Haight-Asbury Summer o' Love fame. He was a very talented individual indeed. Peace.

joelcrowservo

Jan 25, 2001, 05:08 PM

Quote: "I was never loveable. I was just Lennon." Thanks, Crispy,for reminding me of that one.

jtal909

Jan 25, 2001, 05:16 PM

They say Brian od'd not from one dose, but of a cummulative amount of whatever it was.
Also, I just read in Shout that Brian had some enemies left over from some merchandising copyright sour deals that cost a few companies millions. And several weeks later, his partner in those deals was also found dead. (I don't remember names and I don't want to go and look them up). that's also a rather far fetched account of his death, but I have read in other sources that his overdose was cummulative.

joelcrowservo

Jan 25, 2001, 05:32 PM

Wasn't it in Shout that reporters learned of Brians death mysteriously before anyone else did? Isn't that a little odd?

Tim

Jan 25, 2001, 06:21 PM

The story in Shout! according to Wendy hanson is that the papers called and said "We've heard Brian's taken ill' Is that true?" just after they found his body.

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Tim
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The Church Beatle will now pass among you,and no foreign coins please.

Caesar of TimBrent.net (http://www.timbrent.net)

jtal909

Jan 25, 2001, 06:26 PM

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......

crispy

Jan 26, 2001, 01:59 PM

There's always been some controversy over Epstein's death, including the possiblity that he was asphyxiated, possibly by a gay lover he met that night. Speculation is that if this did happen, it was some one night stand that Epstein met in a club or on the docks. But could it have been Lennon or some hit man? Again, I strongly doubt it, but would like to see the evidence.

I'm a bit chagrined that everyone wants to damn the Shevey book site unseen. I reacted that way when Goldman's book came out, but when I read it 10 years later, I realized that a good deal of it has the ring of truth (even if it is grossly unbalanced - I heard that the editors cut 81,000 words worth of positive stuff that Goldman had written).

Lennon was about truth first and foremost (even if he didn't always live up to his creed), and to reject something without trying to understand it first dishonors JL's memory.

#9 Dream

Jan 31, 2001, 05:20 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by crispy:
[B]The Beatles represented a lot of things, including peace and love. John was a big part of that, but he was also a damaged guy capable of some pretty awful behavior. Lennon's "peace and love" reputation smothers his true gift: His searing emotional honesty and determination to understand himself and the world. That's what sets him apart from any other artist of the 20th century.
[B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ITA, crispy. John might not always have been p.c. or cuddly or packaged for mass consumption, but he *was* brutally honest. Love him or hate him, I think we can all at least respect that about him. He was an incredibly complex man who wasn't afraid to share his pain, rage, and fear...that made a lot of people uncomfortable. But we have to take the whole package.

~ Dream

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Some are dead and some are living; in my life, I've loved them all. ~ John Lennon, IN MY LIFE

[This message has been edited by #9 Dream (edited January 31, 2001 at 06:22 PM).]

iFrog

Feb 01, 2001, 02:44 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by #9 Dream:
<snip>...He was an incredibly complex man who wasn't afraid to share his pain, rage, and fear...that made a lot of people uncomfortable. But we have to take the whole package.
~ Dream <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly #9. Since when and where is there to be a penalty exacted for honesty and having courage in your convictions? Sadly there is an answer to that question. Like John said "We all shine on."

SleepyHead

Feb 04, 2001, 10:33 AM

Well, iFrog, penalties (as you call 'em, I call 'em consequences) are the meat & potatoes of living. Sadly, the consequences in John's case lead to his death. But as long as we remember him, he will never truly be dead. John Lennon has been made a martyr to his causes, to his life. He has become a true hero for millions of us.

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Tim

Feb 04, 2001, 11:27 PM

Further odd thing about Seltaeb/Brian's death--a few weeks after Brian died,David Jacobs his solicitor hung himself.
Also,Nicky Byrne one of the Sektaeb partners goot a call a few weeks before Brian's death,the message saying "You will soon hear about an accident concerning Brian Epstein".
(from Shout!)

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Tim
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