The Fat Beatle

[Dr.WinnieO'Boogie]

Okay this has prolly been talked about I don't know how many times on here but as it goes...I am bringing it up again. :laugh1:

Y'know how back '65 or '66 I can't remember which, that there was some thing in the paper where a reporter had called John "The Fat Beatle".

Now, I've read in a few books that John had a severe problem with his weight after he read or heard this comment for some years after.:cry5:

The book that seemed to take this issue and run with it (like it did with all of John's issues) was of course our favourite book (sarcasm, of course)
"The lives of John Lennon". :scream2:

I just wanted to get some opinions on this here cause I dunno if I believe that he had such an incredible problem as this book and others have said, but than again I dunno I wasn't there. haha

So what you all think... do you think that John was indeed neurotic enough to go anorexic or bulemic or whatever these books have said. I mean I know he was neurotic, like us all. But to that degree?

Just a question all.

Side note On Dr. Winnie: While reading "The Lives Of John Lennon" at the age of 13, Dr. Winnie was known to throw the book across her room when she read something that offended her.......good ol' teenage hormones, eh?
Needless to say, that book is still in pieces. Ha! :laugh2:

Doctah Winnie:laugh4:

[matt5]

I think John got a bit chubby around 65 but I wouldn't call him fat.

Leave it to the media to say something stupid. They're experts at it.

[Dr.WinnieO'Boogie]

I agree.

[ABCKO]

Didn't John himself refer to those years as his "Fat Elvis" period ?

[Sally]

I wouldn't have said he was fat, I think he probably had a tendency to gain weight and probably would have been a bigger in his older years, i mean Sean isn't skinny but he isn't fat either and I think John would have been the same but the strict veggie diet and the drugs in the late 60's and early 70's kept him thin.

Either way John was John and what he looked like didn't make the slightest bit of difference as far as I am concerned and i really hope he didn't worry about it.

[ABCKO]

I wouldn't have said he was fat, I think he probably had a tendency to gain weight and probably would have been a bigger in his older years, i mean Sean isn't skinny but he isn't fat either and I think John would have been the same but the strict veggie diet and the drugs in the late 60's and early 70's kept him thin.

Either way John was John and what he looked like didn't make the slightest bit of difference as far as I am concerned and i really hope he didn't worry about it.

Same thing for "my guy", Roy Orbison. He'd sometimes get a bit more "plump" but, in his case, weight losses or gains could be attributed to the tragedies he went through... for instance, after going through extensive open-heart surgery, his weight seem to go way down for a couple of years.

But, like you said, it makes no difference to me (though it is hard to see him on some footage, appearing a bit frail...)

[Sally]

Same thing for "my guy", Roy Orbison. He'd sometimes get a bit more "plump" but, in his case, weight losses or gains could be attributed to the tragedies he went through... for instance, after going through extensive open-heart surgery, his weight seem to go way down for a couple of years.

But, like you said, it makes no difference to me (though it is hard to see him on some footage, appearing a bit frail...)

I saw an old film of RO singing Pretty Woman, not sure how old he was but he looked old and frail!

[twovirgins]

john was nuts for thinking that he was fat
at at the time of his departure he was bone thin and his skin looked horrible poor guy
I have my insecurities too we are all human

[Sally]

john was nuts for thinking that he was fat
at at the time of his departure he was bone thin and his skin looked horrible poor guy
I have my insecurities too we are all human

I actually thought he looked alot older than 40 when he died.

[Rellevart]

I never thought he looked "fat" in Help, but then I've always liked my guys just a touch on the heavier side than stick skinny.

[MonaMe577]

Well, to me, John seemed to be kind of self-conscious about his appearance to begin with. I always thought it was a little funny when I looked at pictures of the Beatles in Miami--there are a couple where the boys are lounging around the pool, and three of them have on little shorts and tees while John has on a big black sweatshirt and a towel around his waist! Somebody like that would probably take a comment about his weight a little too much to heart.

Sure, he may not have been a buff, bronzed surf god, but I never would have called him fat. Maybe a little on the pudgy side, at one point, but then again I always thought that was kind of cute in a man. :blush4:

[LovinLennon909]

A person does not need to be "neurotic" to be anorexic. I was (anorexic, that is), or I am, and still dealing with it.

Looking at pictures of John right before his death...the dull, lank hair, the greyish skin, his unnaturally skinny frame, I'd say he suffered from some sort of eating disorder.

[Dr.WinnieO'Boogie]

A person does not need to be "neurotic" to be anorexic. I was (anorexic, that is), or I am, and still dealing with it.

Well I didn't mean it in that way... cause I lost alot of weight becuase of some medication, and people were calling me anorexic and all that, not sure if I was underweight enough to qualify though. But as for John I was thinking of his neurosis like um......."Oh god they called me fat.... what will I do? Am I fat? Oh no!"
Along those lines or something...I don't know what the dear was thinking though.
I Hope I did not offend. :smile1:

Winnie :laugh4:

[Dr.WinnieO'Boogie]

I actually thought he looked alot older than 40 when he died.

Yeah, I agree with that.
It's pretty sad, I've read in books he wasn't being to good to himself...but who are they to say, y'know.
But in any case yes he looked somewhat, Tired. He looked very tired.
I wouldn't say haggard, like really old. Just tired and stressed.

Winnie :confused:

[ABCKO]

I saw an old film of RO singing Pretty Woman, not sure how old he was but he looked old and frail!

That would be circa 1978-1979, just after his, triple bypass, heart operation.

... but within a year or two after that, he looked fine...

[ABCKO]

I actually thought he looked alot older than 40 when he died.

I dunno, with the mop-top he'd gown back, I thought he looked very 1965-1966-ish, just before he passed away.

[ABCKO]

Well, to me, John seemed to be kind of self-conscious about his appearance to begin with. I always thought it was a little funny when I looked at pictures of the Beatles in Miami--there are a couple where the boys are lounging around the pool, and three of them have on little shorts and tees while John has on a big black sweatshirt and a towel around his waist! Somebody like that would probably take a comment about his weight a little too much to heart. :blush4:

I don't think John was that self-concious, and mean think of all of pranks like the time he stuck a sanitary pad on his forehead...

[Sally]

I don't think John was that self-concious, and mean think of all of pranks like the time he stuck a sanitary pad on his forehead...

He was incredibly pissed (means drunk here), at the time :laugh5:

[HMVNipper]

I have read that after that "fat Beatle" comment, John did develop a bit of complex about his weight...and remember, what other people see and what you see in the mirror can be drastically different things. Those of you who have had or know people who have had anorexia can vouch for that -- many anorexics are nothing but skin and bones and yet see a "fat" person in the mirror...and I can tell you that when *I* look in the mirror, I see a person who's a lot skinnier than I have been in many years. So who knows how John perceived himself after that comment?

John was a very insecure person -- although I am sure that he knew deep in his heart that he WAS that handsome, sexy, attractive man everyone said he was, I would be willing to bet that he didn't always believe it in his HEAD. Does that make any sense?

I do agree that at the time of his death he was too skinny. He had gone on that macrobiotic diet, remember. I've heard and read from various sources that he did sometimes "use food as a weapon," refuse to eat, eat things he liked and then feel guilty about it (e.g., chocolate, apparently he was a major chocoholic but felt guilty after he ate it) and stuff like that. Frankly, whether it was consciously an eating disorder or not, it sure manifests like one!

[lennonluvr9]

Even though I've heard from various people & from John himself that he was getting chubby, i've never ever noticed it! yeah i guess he was a little bigger in help than AHDN, but i noticed so much as a hint of a beer belly or double chin thing going on....He almost always looked good to me, especially that 65-66 range so i dont know, maybe i'm just unobservant

[HMVNipper]

Oh, I think he was GORGEOUS around 1965-66! One of my favorite pics of him was taken during the filming of Help! and hangs on my wall in a frame, where it has followed me around since college. I don't think he was fat at all! But as I said above, other people's perception and one's own perception are sometimes drastically different things...

[LovinLennon909]

Well I didn't mean it in that way... cause I lost alot of weight becuase of some medication, and people were calling me anorexic and all that, not sure if I was underweight enough to qualify though. But as for John I was thinking of his neurosis like um......."Oh god they called me fat.... what will I do? Am I fat? Oh no!"
Along those lines or something...I don't know what the dear was thinking though.
I Hope I did not offend. :smile1:

Winnie :laugh4:
You didn't offend me any, I just thought I might mention anorexia (and probably bulimia, too) is not merely a neurosis--it's a chemical imbalance in the brain, much like manic-depression (formerly bipolar disorder) or schizophrenia. Also, one's weight does ot determine whether one is or is not anorexic- anorexia is the conscious refusal of food, regardles of what one weighs. I knew a girl who looked perfectly normal, but ate only roasted red peppers and green tea. Some people's metabolism keeps them at a normal weight, even if they're only eating 200 or 300 calories a day.

And for the record, I think John still looked great in '65-'66, although I think he was in his prime in the early Seventies: '71, '71 and '73. :drool:

[Nowheregirl]

"I carn't not believe this incredible fact og truth about my very body which has not gained fat since mother begat me at childburn. Yea, though I wart through the valet of thy shadowy hut I will feed no norman. What grate qualmsy hath taken me thus into such a fatty hardbuckle.' Again Frank looked down at the awful vision which clouded his eyes with fearful weight. 'Twelve inches more heavy, Lo!, but am I not more fatty than my brother Geoffery whose father Alec came from Kenneth - through Leslies, who begat Arthur, son of Eric, by the house of Ronald and April - keepers of James of Newcastle who ran Madeline at 2-1 by Silver Flower, (10-2) past Wot-ro-Wot at 4/3d a pound?" ("No Flies on Frank")

He's on a diet now you know
From eating far too much
They say if he gets fatter
He'll have to wear a crutch.
("The Fat Budgie")
:rolleyes:

[HMVNipper]

Something tells me, from those writings, that John did have a bit of a complex about fat people...including a fear of becoming fatter himself!

[MonaMe577]

Here's a quote from John, taken out of Robert Freeman's book:

"When HELP! came out. I was actually crying out for help. Most people think it's just a fast rock'n'roll song...but later, I knew I was really crying out for help. You see the movie: he -- I -- is very fat, very insecure, and he's completely lost himself."

So yeah, I tend to think he was pretty self-conscious.

[HMVNipper]

That's just really sad...

John was such a complex person...despite all that bluster and bravado, so very, very insecure. Makes me want to cry every time I think about it.

I dunno, I love him anyway -- fat or thin, whatever...

[Apple Scruff]

John was an extremely insecure person. I think you can figure that out by just listening to his music, how he always had to get something off his chest in a very direct, somewhat confrontational manner- but obviously quite beautiful. I believe that all his problems stemmed down to his childhood and all the confusions that surrounded that period of his life. I think he was actually quite vain and any thing anyone said against his appearance hit him hard because he was also extremely sensitive.

See, all these really complicated adjectives that describe John are also what make him so incredibly fascinating. He was macrobiotic for quite a while, though, and I believe he probably felt good about it because he seemed like someone who was concerned about his health...even the smoking thing, how he said that macrobiotics don't believe in the "big C" and all...he may have been hooked.

In my opinion, I think John would still be a bit of a health freak today, if he were alive (hopefully he would have quit smoking of course). I think his appearance was very important to him. When he was younger he had all those haircuts and the clothes, and obviously that meant he took note of how he looked.

Sean, to me, is the perfect weight...I guess John was possibly underweight for his build and Sean is just the right size for his- but I'm probably the only one who thinks, in various photos, that John looked wonderful in 1980. That photo shoot of him in the beret and the one in the white room with Yoko...wow. Just lovely.

[HMVNipper]

I absolutely agree with you, Scruff...I know that John was very insecure, that is quite obvious. Such a very sensitive soul -- so much beauty inside, and yet so afraid to show it because whenever he did admit he cared, life came back and slapped him in the face. I agree, all that complexity is exactly what makes him so utterly fascinating.

The really funny thing, to me, is that if you know how to read him, this stuff is really obvious. I dunno, I've never had any trouble figuring him out, seeing right through all the facades. I wonder if he realized how easy he was for people to figure out if they knew how to look -- I have a feeling he wouldn't have liked knowing that very much, going to all that trouble to mask the "real" man and finding out that some people could see through it in an instant...

Of course, all those feelings did come out in his songs and his writings...it's amazing to me that so many people just didn't get it, but then again I guess it's because this was during a time when "rock and roll musicians" were not counted upon to have any brains, they were just assumed to be dim-witted noise making machines. So I guess a lot of foks didn't expect much from him and didn't look any deeper than most superficial top layers of the pop gems he was churning out. That's kinda sad too...

Yes, definitely, one of the things I love most about John is how endlessly fascinating he was...so little time, so much to know, as it were...

[beatlebangs1964]

John was pinchably cute in 1965-66, the period he called his "fat Elvis" stage. John was not what I would call fat; merely stout and he had a larger build and frame than his bandmates.

George, who also stood at 5'11 had a lean, ectomorphic build and compared to John's rather compact mesomorphic body appeared thinner in comparison while conversely, John appeared stouter than he was. And yeah, Susan, John was ADORABLE!

And yeah, that is sad about John's self-image and insecurity..."and now these days are gone and I'm not so self assured..feel so insecure..." John made some very revealing statements in his 1965 classic "Help!"

Scruff and Susan, I agree with you both 100%. John was an artist and, by his own admission, he could "see things nobody else could." I think he was a very sensitive man and very charged on a sensory count - I think his feelings ran to the extreme. John was not what I ever thought of as a moderate in any way shape and form.

John was not a man to hide his feelings, even on a subliminal level. I feel I had a good understanding of John; his art and facades. Although I, too doubt John would have liked having people see behind the mask ("although I look and I act like a clown/beneath this mask I am wearing a frown"), he provided many a glimpse behind the "Lennon Curtain." John was a very intense person; a sensitive soul; an artist. He was complex and for those who never got past the facades and the "music man," that is their loss. It is sad to think of what they missed.

[Kams]

i once read that he actually was eating very little after reading that comment about him being the fat beatle.
anyway, about him looking older, and skinny before he died - id blame it on the drugs he'd done so heavily. i mean, c'mon, if someone eats lsd like a candy-it's got to struck back someday. organism has its limits.

[Loony_leo]

I heard this story earlier this year, that some dumbass reporter said something to him like... "oh I know which one you are, your the fat beatle."

I think that is the stupidest thing you can say to a person. It just isn't something you say, you don't go around making personal comments, especially on weight which tends to be a very touchy subject for most people.

I think at the time John was a little chubby yes, but he wasn't FAT. I think the only reason he looked fat to some people is because he usually was a very very skinny man. But no he wasn't fat, just a little chubby, and as many people have said, chubby is a cute look on him.

Now this is quite off topic, but it's interesting nonetheless. In my ancient civ. class, the teacher got us to look up these four pictures of art showing the evolution of beauty over time.

The original idea of femine beauty was "Venus of Willendorf" which is the world's oldest piece of potery, and shows a VERY large woman. Then beauty evolved to the image of Queen Nerfertiti, who looks almost toothpick thin, and hasn't evolved much since. Sorry to bore you all with history, but I thought it was interesting, and it kind of relates.....

But, no, John was never fat. And it pains me to think of how worked up he got over his weight, because as we all know, he was beautiful.

On a side point, I think all of us can relate to John, for I am sure at some moment in time we have all felt even a little insecure about or weights.

[PennyandMe]

john was nuts for thinking that he was fat
at at the time of his departure he was bone thin and his skin looked horrible poor guy
I have my insecurities too we are all human

I hate thinking about this . . . I never want to think of John as feeling miserable during his last moments alive. That is the worst possible thing and I’m sure almost everyone else agrees.

It would be nice to THINK that there were no problems there and that he was completely healthy during that time period. Whatever was going on – no one will truly know for sure, I guess. The only thing I want to point out is that there could have possibly been several factors in the way he appeared in 1980. At the time John and Yoko had just released Double Fantasy and were doing the promotion for it. I think it’s evident that whenever anyone goes out there and promotes their music, etc., it’s not easy. They were both doing countless interviews, photo shoots, autograph signings, business meetings, still raising their son, and they were also continuing to work in the studio to record more music. That seems like a lot to deal with. If you look at pictures of Yoko, even, there is a bit of fatigue in her eyes. I personally think that the dramatic schedule change and constant work was exhausting them, thus causing (part of) a change in John’s appearance.

There are not many pictures of John during his househusband years, so it’s difficult to say how much he aged. However, there have been photos of him five years earlier during the Lost Weekend and looked (to me) quite older. And vice versa – he looked quite perky in some rare photos of the late 70s. There is no doubt that the drugs and alcohol he used throughout his life had affected his external appearance. He ::seemed:: to have been taking care of himself, going to the YMCA with Sean for swimming lessons and eating a healthy diet (I think). John was also very much intense with yoga daily.

So I don’t know…does anyone else think that their routine was causing some of an effect? He sure looks fine during his vacation in Bermuda.

[Johnny Lover]

The book that seemed to take this issue and run with it (like it did with all of John's issues) was of course our favourite book (sarcasm, of course)
"The lives of John Lennon". :scream2:

So what you all think... do you think that John was indeed neurotic enough to go anorexic or bulemic or whatever these books have said. I mean I know he was neurotic, like us all. But to that degree?

That stupid book caused my eating disorder. At the time I read it, I believed that biographies had to tell the truth... And John was my idol. I've had both anorexia and bulemia ever since.

Sorry to bring this topic back up after such a long time, but I just recently started dealing with my problem, and hoped to look back to the beginning of it to perhaps find an end...
And besides, I haven't posted anything here in a while! ;)

[beatlebangs1964]

In Help!, John was easy to identify when he wore the Ringo mask - his chubby buns gave him away!

Lover, it is sad that you have eating disorders. I don't believe the book caused them. As somebody who once lived with an anorexic, the person with the eating disorder has serious issues and sadly, it is all too often a question of time before the disorder rears its menacing head. John was the idol of countless people who read Goldman's tabloid, er, I mean book, misleading though it may be and did not develop bulamarexia. I hope you are getting the help that you need.

John also practiced healthy eating towards the latter part of his life. That is something that I find worth emulating. The esteemed Mr. Harrison took good care of his body and he ate a healthy regimen. These are just things to consider.

[VersusBatman]

What'sa macrobiotic diet?

[juniper]

I don't think John was that self-concious. Think of all of pranks; like the time he stuck a sanitary pad on his forehead.

He had the rag on that day. :drunk:

Fat may not have been the appropriate term for John's 1965 physique; soft would've described him better. This website (http://photos.absoluteelsewhere.net/BeatleJohn/PhotoAlbums/TobagoTrip/7on_beach5.html) doesn't allow me to paste images; but this photograph and others from the group depict John as a bit pale and doughy.

[HMVNipper]

What'sa macrobiotic diet?

Here's a website with info about Macrobiotics. There's too much for me to past in here.

http://www.pccnaturalmarkets.com/health/Diet/Macrobiotic_Diet.htm