Which was the real first one...

[FPSHOT]

I had a small talk today with my friend ABCKO and it came about George's solo albums and before I knew it I made a remark saying that maybe Living In The Material World was George's real first solo album..

I'd like to see your views on that..

What I basically mean is...yes I know about All Things Must Pass...however.. most of the songs on the album date from the Beatles days.. and honest.. I do not mean this cynical or bad.. it just passed my thoughts..

Whereas.. Living In The Material World is an album with songs George wrote after 1970 and are a lot about George as he was in 1972, 1973..

Are you still with me?

So from there one can at least consider, that his first real own album was that one?

It's only a point of discussion... I love ATMP deeply..it is more inner thoughts...deeper thoughts..

[beatlemad]

I think ATMP is the first for me because if George had stayed with the Beatles most of these songs would never have been heard.

[AnyRoad69]

really All Things Must Pass is George first real Solo Album

Living In The Material World is the Second Album

[Harbidge]

Technically, George's first ever solo album was Wonderwall Music. ATMP Is great with that extra Beatle twist where LITMW was when George could be George.

[Siobhan]

I understand where you are coming from, and you may be right, but to me personally ATMP is George's first solo album. Yes a lot of it was written while he was with the Beatles, but to be honest I don't think George's heart or spirit was really with the Beatles when many of the songs were written. They weren't Beatle songs, they were George songs, regardless of when thy were written.

[AnyRoad69]

Technically, George's first ever solo album was Wonderwall Music. ATMP Is great with that extra Beatle twist where LITMW was when George could be George.

But this album was a pure instrumental album, before then Paul brought 2 years his first solo album on the market. The family Way

[FPSHOT]

You guys make fair points..

Harb..yes like you say...that is part of my thoughts.. think of George and LITMW is a lot of him and ofcourse ATMP is too...but LITMW does not have the Beatles connection..

Siobhan...so true what you say about the 'heart of spirit' and yes even though written before the split up, also I consider them George songs only

I am not looking for a definition...just a good discussion :)

[friar-park]

Living In The Material World is George's first album of "current" material. ATMP is a complilation album of sorts of songs he wrote during The Beatles Days, but it is his first 'real' album in the same sense that 'Ringo' is Ringo's first 'real' album (most of us don't count SJ or BoB, Ringo doesn't either). As much as I love all of George's other albums, it's interesting that ATMP and 'Brainwashed' are his strongest albums, maybe because the songs were accumilated over a period of time and the best could be culled for the album. I often wonder what Paul's albums would've looked like if he had taken 5 years or so in between each of his later "weaker" albums. Combine the best of Flaming pie, Run Devil Run, and Driving Rain for one album; Flowers in The Dirt can pretty much stand on it's own, but with the better songs off of 'Off The Ground" maybe it would've been better. Tug of War can stand on it's own as well, but the best of the rest of the 80's could've been put together for one stronger album. The best of
Back to the Egg and London town plus singles, well you get the drift.

My 2 cents.

Brian

[Legs]

To me it doesn't matter when the songs originated. George recorded the songs solo without the rest of the Beatles, well with help from Ringo ofcourse. I know what you mean Rob, in a way "Living In The Material World" was a first in the way that all the songs originated after George left the Beatles. But forgive my simple thinking here, "All Things Must Pass" is a solo album and a real one, no doubt about that, and it was released before "LITMW".

[Hari's Chick]

For me, ATMP will always be the first. But I love LITMW maybe even more than ATMP... I think LITMW was (as George said) pure ISKCON influence. Very Krishna Conscious album. :smile1: I mean, ATMP was as well, but there were more a mix of songs (love/jam/spirit).

[Celebrian]

I still feel that ATMP is George's first for me, because you can get a sense of him shedding his Beatle skin. He was becoming more uninhibited and while a good protion of the songs were written while he still was a Beatle, I don't think he recieved very much support from the other on these tracks.

That said, I completely understand your point of view.

[FPSHOT]

For me, ATMP will always be the first. But I love LITMW maybe even more than ATMP... I think LITMW was (as George said) pure ISKCON influence. Very Krishna Conscious album. :smile1: I mean, ATMP was as well, but there were more a mix of songs (love/jam/spirit).
Very true...to me also ATMP will always be the first one..I still remember hearing My Sweet Lord (which is not a song from the Beatles times) first time on the radio and I was so proud of my George... and also the argumentation for LITMW made me start this discussion

[ABCKO]

I had a small talk today with my friend ABCKO and it came about George's solo albums and before I knew it I made a remark saying that maybe Living In The Material World was George's real first solo album..

I'd like to see your views on that..

What I basically mean is...yes I know about All Things Must Pass...however.. most of the songs on the album date from the Beatles days.. and honest.. I do not mean this cynical or bad.. it just passed my thoughts..

Whereas.. Living In The Material World is an album with songs George wrote after 1970 and are a lot about George as he was in 1972, 1973..

Are you still with me?

So from there one can at least consider, that his first real own album was that one?

It's only a point of discussion... I love ATMP deeply..it is more inner thoughts...deeper thoughts..

Yep, it's the first one that he basically started from scratch... all very recent songs and all intended to be on the same album...

[L'Angelo Misterioso]

I have never really thought about it this way Rob. To me, All Things Must Pass has always been George's first solo album, in spite of the fact that most of the songs were written while he was still "wearing that shirt". :wink1:

And as for Wonderwall Music and Electronic Sounds, I think it's fair to concider them more as solo projects rather than solo albums because he was still in the band and his role in the former was more of a songwriter than a performing artist. Electronic Sounds (and partly Wonderwall Music too) I think was more of an experiment rather than a beginning of a solo career.

[FPSHOT]

Exactly... it is just the way you enter the discussion. Ofcourse ATMP was his first real album, it will always be... but his first "solo" album.. one which was really his.. which on non of the songs had any Beatles history.

You can have huge discussions about it, even about the word 'solo'. I mean...if there is no band you are in...are you solo? :rock2:

With All Things Must Pass George showed the world, and a few musicians :wink1: what he was worth as composer, musician and producer... no doubt about that and I am still so proud of him for that... and with Living In The Material World he had his 'first' album which from A to Z was prepared in his own time, in his own world, about his own feelings and goals..

[beatlebangs1964]

FPSHOT,

I can also say how proud of George for this as well. Each of his subsequent collections reflect his personal, spiritual and developmental growth. George took a big chance by making himself vulnerable and sharing to the extent that he did, but it paid dividends. George literally grew up before the world in every sense of the term and his music captures that and illuminates/illustrates it beautifully.

Rob, you raised many good points that I had not considered until I read this...again, George's music can, in some ways be viewed as a "growth chart" as you watch him come forward with insightful, interesting and invaluable observations.

[darkhorse]

Well I always remember a quote from an interview where Goerge mentions that to him there's not a huge difference between recording his songs with or without The Beatles, in terms of songwriting, composing and lyric-making. He said that he didn't see many differences between, say, "Taxman" or "Cloud Nine"... one was recorded with one group of pepole and other was recorded with another group of people, but both of them came from him, his soul and his feelings. So there, his first solo album was All Things Must Pass, even though it obviously has a huge Beatle background. The songs are still there, it is the same man that was writing since 1963. My 2 cents. :smile1:

[beatlebangs1964]

Yeah, the same lyricist/composer, but a man who changed and developed and was in many ways a very different person. A mature version of the same man. :smile1:

[SpaceDaisy42]

What I basically mean is...yes I know about All Things Must Pass...however.. most of the songs on the album date from the Beatles days.. and honest.. I do not mean this cynical or bad.. it just passed my thoughts..

Whereas.. Living In The Material World is an album with songs George wrote after 1970 and are a lot about George as he was in 1972, 1973..

Are you still with me?

Are they any less George's songs? I mean no matter when he wrote them they will be influenced by what is going on around him, but that does not make a song any less his own. On the contrary I think it adds to the fact, because now not only are they songs he has written while with The Beatles (and influenced by what was happening during that time) but that he could do properly because he wasn't with the Beatles anymore. I mean, Wah-Wah is written because of a a difficult situation with his bandmates, but does that make it The Beatles? Not at all, instead it sets the pace for what he will continue to do through out his career. Say what he is thinking and feeling through his lyrics without apology to anyone who it might offend or upset. Say things he coudn't say when he was with the Beatles. I think this makes it all the more solo music not any less. Hope this makes some sense...

[ABCKO]

But, then of course, you also have "Wonderwall"...

... but it all depends on what you consider a "real" album...

[beatlebangs1964]

Good point, ABC.

I also like what Daisy said above that George was undoubtedly responding to direct influences in his life at the time he was writing the songs in question. His songs, as with any artist are reflective of a point in his life and the way he chose to express/respond to same.

Daisy, what you said makes PERFECT sense and was right on the ball...it is only natural for songs to be geared towards specific influences and events in a person's life. George's life in 1963 was RADICALLY different from his life in the following years. George was no longer the young boy-man, but a seasoned musical veteran and his interests, needs and outlooks were tailored to whatever age he was at the time.

[Legs]

Say things he coudn't say when he was with the Beatles. I think this makes it all the more solo music not any less. Hope this makes some sense...

Your post makes a lot of sence Daisy.
Every solo album is a first. Every new album is closest to where an artist like George is in his life. The songs are an reflection of a sudden point in life.
In that respect "Living In the Material Wordl" isn't any different then "All Things Must Pass".

"Wonderwall" and "Electronic Sounds" are both solo projects.But can you also call them solo albums?

[darkhorse]

Wonderwall, yes.

Eletronic Sounds, no.

[HariScruff_00]

while I certainly see where the argument is coming from, and it does have some valid points-- IMO saying LitMW was George's actual first *solo* album for the reasons given, is along the lines of saying Rubber Soul was the Beatles first real album b/c there were no cover versions.
you could make those kinds of arguments but IMO neither carry enough weight or merit.

ATMP is George's first album- to me, the only exception to that statement would be Wonderwall.
No matter who he had been affiliated with while most of those songs were written- they were still HIS songs (with the exception of the 1 cover version on the album)
:nono4: