Divorce: When NO ONE is winking at me..

[joelcrowservo]

Anyone else out there gone thru divorce? I'm dealing with a bitter sad one right now, and thats the main reason posting to Beatlelinks hasnt been a high priority lately. Just want anyone elses thoughts or struggles with it. Any Help! in other more familiar terms..

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Sorry to hear about your tough time, joelcrowservo. While I'm not really in a position to offer any advice (having never gone through a divorce) perhaps some people on the board may be able to do so. In any case, you have everyone's full support on here and I hope we can all help you through the times ahead.


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[Lynner]

Sorry to hear your news. Like Nowhere Man, I've never gone thru a divorce, so don't have advice to give, but if you need some cheering up, please come and visit the 'Links. We'll be here for you.


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[alliesun]

hi... i'm glad you felt like you could open up here. just to echo the others, we are all here for you - to support you, to listen to you vent, to cheer you up, or to offer what advice we can. http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif like those who have already posted, i've never gone through a divorce - though both of my parents have been married previously (before either of them had kids). i know it's incredibly painful, and i will be keeping you in my prayers.

peace and grace to you.

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[SleepyHead]

No, sorry, haven't divorced http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/cat.gif lately, so I can't offer any personal opinions from that angle. I did, however, suffer as a child from not one, but two divorces that were anything but amicable... If there are children involved, I may be able to point out some first-hand experience observations...

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[SF4-EVER]

Like everyone else who's already posted, I want to offer my support and encouragement. (And no, I haven't gone through a divorce either, but my brother did.)

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[ChrisG134]

I've gone thru a divorce,it was 10 yrs. ago but it's hard none the less.I felt like a failure,but I realized it wasn't my fault or his we just got married to young(I was 22).People just grow apart.Luckily we had no children which makes it a little easier.You just got to go with your life.Who knows you might find love again.I did,it took 6 yrs but it was worth the wait!We've been married 1 yr just last sunday.Just take it one day at a time.If you do have kids think about them first don't pit them in the middle.My husband's ex-wife tends to do that alot.Were here to support you.

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[joelcrowservo]

Thanks all! Yeah, there are 3 kids involved, and its hard for the little goofballs to understand, but I just try to love 'em a bit extra nowadays. What seems to make things worse is that, for one, we have been best friends for years, so even that relationship is endangered. AND the guy she left me for is a guy I introduced her to in my school!! I just feel like Cynthia Lennon was described once: that she would love John to distraction till the day she dies, no matter what. Oh dear, is there a confessional here?http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/afraid2.gif BTW, any dating advice would also be appreciated. I'm one of those that NEEDS a co-conspirator, and I'm clueless. Well, we all knew that anyway!

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[joelcrowservo]

Sorry, sorry, just fixing a double post. Quite painful. Will the misery never end? http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/wink.gif

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[This Message Has Been Edited By joelcrowservo On March 29, 2002 09:14 AM]

[FiendishThingie]

So sorry to hear about this!

I've never been through one, but it seems divorce is never easy. At the moment the woman who sits next to me at work is recently divorced & her ex-husband is still on her case about things. He just won't let it die down & he's the one who requested the divorce. Why can't he just let her go? I can't understand it at all.

But I think any divorce, no matter how amiable would still be hard!

Well, come often & be among friends!

Prayers & good thoughts for you & your family during this time!

FT http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/wink3.gif



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[SleepyHead]

Not knowing the ages of your children, I can only guess at their reactions at a time like this.

One thing you simply must keep in mind - even if your soon-to-be ex is a total monster, you must never let your battered and slashed feelings coax you into talking about her as though she were. Show your pain, by all means, and your confusion... and understand that no matter what or why this divorce is coming about, your children will in all probability harbor deep-seated feelings of guilt and responsibility for it.

We (there were 5 of us for the first divorce) were quite young, but even then we spent literally hours talking behind the house of ways to get our parents back together. We didn't see the divorce as a situation where one adult decided he/she couldn't live with the other one without severely damaging each other in the process. We saw a dad who left us - one day things seemed normal, the next he was sitting us, one by one, on the couch, trying to tell us he loved us but he wouldn't be living with us anymore. That made absolutely no sense to me at all (I was 7 at the time)... I felt the truth must be that if he really and truly loved us, he would stay right where he was and not rip apart my world.

The years of bitterness between my parents afterwards were the fertile grounds for a whole host of nightmares. I was only 8 when I woke up to find myself packed and walking in the middle of a night-darkened street looking for my mother. I would build those cloud-castles we all do where I would devise some means of drawing my parents to forget their bitterness and consider my plight. I would devise methods of becoming life-endangeringly ill, so that both parents would have to come to the hospital to see me, and had some extremely exotic ideas as to how that would lead to our family becoming a real family again.

The bitterness evidenced by my step-parents was even more acidic than that shown by my parents. While my parents could and did realize how much the other one loved us and would care for us in a capable manner, my step-parents were more idealistic in their approach. "Well, if your Dad really loved you, he would not work in a bar...", "Well, if your Mom really loved you, she would make your clothes herself, like I do..."... Those were the milder ones, but it was constant, like the itch of a scab getting ready to fall off.

I learned not to complain to my mother about the discipline in my father's house, and I learned not to be happy when I came home from a totally enjoyable visit with my mother. I still harbored resentment against the parent I lived with (as all children do) and the strictness of our upbringing, and I still thought that my mother loved us more, because on our weekends with her, she took pains to provide us with what my dad and his wife could not... trips to the state fair, the museum, dinner out, picnics in the park, rented movies (of course that was much later). My mom had a colour tv, and when it came out, she had cable. My dad had a black & white, and cable was out of the question.

I never saw any of this as a matter of economics, just as one parent loving us more than the other one.

I know better now, of course, but then that was 30 years ago. My brothers still have trouble in relationships. One is apparently happily married in California. One has lived with a string of women, and finally married when he got one of them pregnant. One spent years "looking" for the right woman, and firmly believing that if he ever got married and it turned out to be the wrong one, a divorce would fix that. He discovered otherwise, and I have hopes that his one and only on-again, off-again marriage will become healed as they both love each other.



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[Tim]

joel,sorry to hear of your bad news http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/frown.gif.
All will be better,though in time.

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Tim
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[jtal909]

You will be allright in time, Joel. Please don't forget that. It is what it is.

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[joelcrowservo]

Again, thanks Beatlepeople! Keep 'em coming, this is proving to be great therapy! I have to wonder what J.W. Lenmew would say though... And x-tra special to Sleepyhead. That means a lot.

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[SleepyHead]

This must feel like absolute hell to you, Joel... I'm keeping you in my prayers.

The divorce between my parents was rough on us kids, but I have no doubts that had they stayed married it would have been worse. The best advice I can give to a divorcing parent is to be honest with your kids, love 'em extra hard, tell them you love them frequently, and save the arguments with the ex over how they're being raised, disciplined, etc, for when they aren't around.

We could pick up on the acid undertones... and I've reason to believe that overhearing those caustic conversations were the cause of many a tummyache, nightmare, and sleep-walking episode. My youngest brother was the least affected - he wasn't quite born when my folks first separated, and was only 2 at the time of the custody hearing. By then, he had been raised with the weekend visits to Mom and with our step-mother living in our home. He has no real conception of what a 2-parent home is like, because he's always had 4 parents.

The second divorce had it's own nightmares for us. After 11 years together (9 married), my father and his second wife had a final bitter blowout, complete with fisticuffs, in the front yard of my grandmother's home. My step-mother grabbed some clothes, my youngest sister (her daughter with my dad), and my other sister (to watch the baby while she worked), and walked out of our lives, saying "I hate you" to each of us on her way out.

I'm sure we didn't make it easy on her, but other than the heavily barbed criticisms of my mother and her husband, she tried to be a good mom to us. Her main problem was jealousy - she couldn't stand us to see us so happy after a weekend with our mother, and would frequently plan out-of-town trips with us on our mom's designated weekend to keep us from going over there. I don't guess I'll ever know if this was to hurt my mother or to keep us from comparing the households afterwards, but at least she never told us "Your mom can't pick you up this weekend"... she simply never let us become aware that there was supposed to be a pattern of visitations with our mom.

When she left, I was a sophomore in high school and already filled with the angst of a kid that age. I was a real know-it-all, and showed a blasé front to everyone about it, but the literal fact of her walking out on me cut deeply. I had watched my father leave when I was 6, stood horrified when she and my dad picked up my baby brother off the sidewalk from in front of my mother's home and drive off mere weeks before the custody hearing two years later, and now slouched on the bed bitterly refusing to cry as I imagined her angry stomp 2 miles down the country road to the only motel in Hosston with 2 of my sisters. By this time in my life, I had actually lived with her and my dad for more than 2/3 of my life, and the pain was just as real as when my dad had left.

Determined not to make the same "mistake" in my life, I nearly made the worst mistake of my life. I had recently started "dating" a boy 3 years older than myself, and for the next 2 1/2 years stuck like glue to him as a saviour. I heard all the "he's a pot-head", "he's a druggie", "he's cheating on you" comments as statements of jealousy instead of being statements of fact. I refused to argue with him, never refused him anything (well, not quite "anything" - "that" was over 2 years coming, so I did refuse for quite awhile), and had flaming rows with all 3 remaining parents about him and his worthiness as husband material.

My sister had similar misconceptions about devotion to a significant other, and despite her upbringing as a chaste girl, became a man-hungry somebody in a big way. After a short series of live-ins, she joined the navy, where she met her husband. Her marriage has seen some very rocky times, but appears to be a strong one after 17 years together.

Her twin is the one with the on-again, off-again marriage. Neither really wanted a divorce, but my brother had grown up with 2 moms and 2 dads, and didn't really expect to be with one woman for the rest of his life. When it came down to the divorce, however, the bitterness had left him with the uncomfortable awareness that divorce doesn't always happen because you've stopped loving someone. He still loved her, and above all, wanted her to be happy. At the divorce proceedings, instead of dragging it out, he fired his lawyer and instructed the judge to give her anything she wanted. Struck for the first time since they had married by this demonstration of love, she halted the proceedings - they are back in counseling, and the last time I heard from them, she had let him move back in.

My next brother began with an idealistic view of how a marriage should be, too, and hopped up and down the "dating" aisle avoiding that final step. When he got one of his girlfriends pregnant, it suddenly became very real for him that a family means more than just having a good time. She was underage, and her parents not only refused to let her marry him, they made her give the baby up for adoption. Paul, Jr. became "Eric", and we've never met him, nor have we seen pictures of him since he was a small baby. My brother was bitter over that for quite awhile before he met his wife. Their relationship started out rockily, too, as she came as a pair with a daughter from a previous relationship. They live in CA, now, he's adopted little Maddie, and they have 2 boys as well.

The next brother is the one who grew up with literally 4 parents. He is the one with the most confused idea of how an ideal relationship works. He left one girl who claimed he was the father of her baby (but who later refused a DNA test), divorced another one who had rented out rooms to some guys while he was on ship in the navy, lived with another one who had taken her 4 kids and left her husband, and has only just last year finally married. This one is pregnant and due any time now, and I have grave fears of this relationship. As I said, he was a dual household kid, although he spouts the same credo as the rest of us (one partner for life), he is very unforgiving of what he takes as personal slights, and holds some very unrealistic expectations of women.

The next sibling is my mother's oldest with her second husband. Of all the boys, he seemed the most stable with the healthiest view of what a real relationship took in terms of give and take. But when he was overseas for the air force, she took an online lover, and when he came home, she packed up their 2 boys and left him. Their divorce was bitter, and he shares custody with her. However, she has left the air force, and since he can be jettisoned around the world with only hours notice, she has the boys more than he does.

The next sibling is an unwed mother with the added complication of having received life-long brain damage from being hit in the head by a moving vehicle at the age of nine. She lives at home with my mom and stepdad (her parents) and raises her baby the best she can.

Sibling no. 7 is a very maladjusted girl of 27 - and yes, I mean girl. She is a "cutter" - vying constantly for attention in any way she can get it. She has no visible means of support, and has lofty ideas that moving away will be the miracle that finally gets her on her feet, but has no doubts that the world owes her a living.

These last 3 siblings have only one mother and dad (my mom and stepdad), but show signs of having been affected by the in-again, out-again relationship the other 5 of us had with the family as a whole.

Sibling no. 8 is a mystery to me, and we have only recently begun trying to stay in contact. She had been raised by her mother (my step-mother) with a sister by her mom's third marriage, and was not told of our existence by her mom. She knew of my dad's existence, but he was never real good at making the effort to visit, so she didn't know him. This was the girl who, at 2 years old, was used as a buffer in that very physical argument between her mother and my dad all those years ago, and was taken by her mother that night. A few weeks later, both her and my other sister came back, and for the next 2 years, she was my "baby", going with me and my boyfriend everywhere. Dad lost that custody battle, though, and it was years before we could even find her.

There are other siblings, but none who lived with us at any time. My stepdad had a son who was in his mother's custody, and who we didn't meet for 12 years. My stepmother gave birth to a little girl, who (although not biologically related to us) is my legal sister... we've never met her, nor do we know the adoptive parents names. My dad married a third time, as well, and acquired his only stepson, who was too old to come to see my dad as a suitable substitute for his "real" dad. However, he had been adopted by my stepmother and her first husband after they discovered they couldn't have children.

If all this seems confusing to any of you, please consider how confusing it was to us growing up. Unlike our friends who had only one set of parents, and no step-siblings, our family was a crazy quilt of his, hers, ours, theirs, and somebody-else's-but-we'll-take-'em-as-ours. As a result, I have a very wide view of just who's family, and very seldom refer to any of my sibs as "half", "whole", "step" or whatever. In a very real sense, I had brothers and sisters in several households over various periods of time, and have no problem considering someone who's never lived in any home I've lived in as a perfectly legitimate sibling.

I have some rather uncomfortably idealistic views of what a family should be, and some totally off-the-wall views of how some things should be dealt with, but I deal with them the best way I can.

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[**DONOTDELETE**]

Oh I'm so sorry, joel. http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/frown.gif

I hope things are going alright (or alright as they CAN be going right now). Sometimes it's so hard to go on when you're hurting so much, huh?

Just know we're all thinking about you and hope you'll get through it alright. http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

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"Only you keep my eyes open wide. Yes it's true, I live for you..."

-George

[joelcrowservo]

You folks are so wonderful. We need to have a Beatlelinks fest or something, get us all in one place (other than here..). I dont know, it gets more confusing everyday, especially when my soon to be ex (April 18th)actually comes on to me! Is this NORMAL? I cant wait to hear these responses!http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/crosseyed3.gif BTW the kids seem to be doing well, but what about 10 years from now? Thats what concerns me. I mean, I'd do anything to have her back, but of course it still wouldnt solve any problems. I dont know!!!

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[**DONOTDELETE**]

I'm sorry about the news Joel. Nobody I know has ever divorced but still I understand that it is hard. Again, I'm sorry to hear about that.

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Rock on lovers, cause that's basically it.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Actually, my great-grandparents divorced before I was born. They kept in touch and later remarried each other.

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Rock on lovers, cause that's basically it.

[joelcrowservo]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By bandontherun:
Actually, my great-grandparents divorced before I was born. They kept in touch and later remarried each other.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Thats quite interesting, as we've often said we'd meet again in the nursing home! Dunno if I can wait that long...
http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/cry4.gif


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[shyGirl]

I'm really sorry to hear about your situation. I'm a firm believer that everthing turns out good in the end and I believe that you'll survive through this whole ordeal. Though my parents never got a divorce(then again they never got married), one of my good friends had to deal with her parents splitting up. When I asked her about it once she told me that she didn't mind it much because she would "rather have them separated and happy than together and miserable". I don't know how old your children are but all I can say just talk to them. And I hope everthing turns out well for you. Don't forget that we're here for you.

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[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hey, try to remember that divorces can be for the better. i.e. my parents

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"Only you keep my eyes open wide. Yes it's true, I live for you..."

-George

[Rellevart]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By joelcrowservo:
Or should I even be dating?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Go out with people, sure, but (and this is JUST my opinion!) don't do any SERIOUS dating for a while. It wouldn't be fair to your new girlfriend to get serious when you're still not over your ex. Trust me on this one.

Since you're also planning a career change, maybe you should throw yourself into your work for a while and put dating on the back burner until you've got the career thing worked out.

Given all that, you just gotta do what feels right to you. Good luck! http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

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I go back so far, I'm in front of me...

[joelcrowservo]

Excellent advice, Rellevart. But who says I'm not over my ex? Heh, just kidding folks. At this rate we could have a first rate advice column here!

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[Lynner]

Wish there was something I could say/do to help. We're a big (and usually) happy family here. It must be difficult to be left for someone you know.

I agree with Rell' - throw yourself into your career and keep posting here. Give yourself time to think, but not time to brood. Stay in close touch with your kids and make sure they know you care. As for dating - do it when you're ready. I'm sure you'll meet someone. It doesn't have to be right away. I was single for a long time and managed to be happy. http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

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[This Message Has Been Edited By Lynner On April 04, 2002 04:48 PM]

[joelcrowservo]

I'm so used to thinking divorce is a horrendous beasty no matter what,i.e. my parents divorce. In a way I think I'm supposed to be feeling free as a bird (isnt it the next best thing to be?); on the other foot, I'm having to totally start from scratch, no furniture, no house, and I'm supposing soon, no custody of the kids. But what really chaps me is that I was left for someone else!!!! http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/cry1.gif Someone from broadcasting school that I got thru school and is totally inferior to me in every way!http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/dork2.gif Now I'm reduced to these online dating services, since my town isnt exactly a hotbed of activity. Or should I even be dating? Thats a real conflict,as I'm naturally attracted to women, but ya know.. when my wife (or whatever she is ) looks at me in just *that* way... dear. Am I just making this more difficult? On top of that, I'm desperatley trying to break into my chosen profession, and it aint easy folks. On the other hand, at least I dont live in Israel at this time in history, so its not ALL bad!!http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/help.gif And I have all my Beatlelinks pals, so...!

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[This Message Has Been Edited By joelcrowservo On April 04, 2002 12:40 PM]

[Rellevart]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By Lynner:
I was single for a long time and managed to be happy. http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Managed"?? http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/wink.gif Gosh, I thought you did better than that! http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

I've been single my whole life. I don't feel it's something to "get through"; it can just as easily be something to enjoy. You get to be selfish and do whatever you want (well, not exactly WHATEVER, since you do have kids involved, but you know what I mean!).

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I go back so far, I'm in front of me...

[beatlebangs1964]

Joel,

I am sorry to learn about this and prayers are being sent your way. Being single (for me) is for the birds and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

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Then we will remember things we said today. Yeah.
-- Beatles, 1964

BB1964

[joelcrowservo]

BTW ChrisG134, Happy belated anniversary! I usually print this stuff off so I can read it in greater detail, so I finally noticed that last night. Well,Rellevart, I feel some people are just built to be single. I'm not one, certainly, but...SleepyHead, I feel this has been as much of a catharsis for me as you. But you already know that, I'm sure. Isnt it strange how people who have never met can develop a bond of sorts over this internet gizmo? Strange days, indeed.

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[SleepyHead]

Ah, Joel, from what I understand, it's common for ex's to still feel the sexual urge for each other. Whether you give in to that or not kinda depends on your whole take on sex. I'm rather a prude on the subject, and right off the bat I'd have to say that the intimacy of sex should remain within the bonds of the happy relationship, but most definitely not outside of it. Although never divorced, I've been approached by ex-boyfriends for sex, and have (at least once) actively sought out a "friendly" ex with that goal in mind.

When the relationship has been breached (and I don't think you can breach one more effectively than with a divorce...), both parties go through some heavy self-doubting, and soul searching. That can be very hard on a person's ego and psyche, and perhaps it's natural to seek something that you already know makes you feel like a king in your castle once again, even if only temporarily. However, it sends mixed signals, and it's my belief that sex between exes should remain in the realm of dreamland or memory lane in order not to bring more pain.

Let's face it... We women tend to have a very negative view of our own bodies, and often have a reluctance to "show" it to anyone. I think maybe the separation brings about another bout of self-negativity that some wish to seek to cancel with approaching someone they've become more or less comfortable with as far as "gettin' nekkid" or whatever the current catch-phrase is.

No one claims that just because the relationship dies that feelings for one or the other towards the ex dies as well... You may go the rest of your life loving her, and vice-versa. And whether you remember it or not, being single had it's own headaches and heartaches with huge cupsful of self-doubt thrown in, just to spice things up a bit. From the distance of time, we tend to view our past through rose-coloured glasses, but I'm here to tell you that the mistakes we made when we broke up with old boyfriends/girlfriends are good ones to avoid when the relationship ending is a more committed one.

As far as dating... Joel, please wait. The divorce itself will be just like a death, only more so because the person you'll be mourning will still be out there in the world and just knowing that makes it much harder to accept the finality of the relationship.

Get into your work and your kids. Develop a different social life - take up some sport or the other (wonderful catharsis for those periodic rages over the failed relationship to chunk a bowling ball as hard as you can down a slick alley). Get involved in some kind of group activity somewhere. Volunteer at your church or something, but whatever you do, don't go partner-hunting just yet. You won't be able to help looking for one of two types of women - either she must be like your ex, or she must be completely opposite of your ex. You should first give yourself time to stop blaming your judgment for the failure of your marriage in order to determine which qualities your ex has that were good ones, and those which you would rather avoid.

In short, you will probably be looking for some idealistic somebody who simply does not exist, and only pain can come from that.

There's a more practical reason to avoid one-on-one dating right now. Your children will be going through quite a lot of confusion because of the divorce itself. The fact that exey has already taken up with someone else has got to be confusing enough for them. And if that relationship sours, too... Well, you get my drift.

Right now, you'd only be looking for someone to replace your ex without giving a whole lot of thought to how the new one would fit in your life, and that wouldn't be fair to either of you.

------------------
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[SleepyHead]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By joelcrowservo:
I'll get back to actual responses later, I just wanted to mention: my actual name is David. Being called Joel was getting weird! Not your mistake tho'!!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Egads, me gots egg on me face! I'm so sorry, David... http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/blush1.gif http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/blush2.gif http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/blush3.gif



------------------
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Bearkat77's Beatlemaniac Page (http://bearkat77.www9.50megs.com)
Bearkat77's Tribute to John Lennon (http://bearkatjl.50megs.com)
Bearkat77's Tribute to Ringo Starr (http://bearkatrs.50megs.com)

[Lynner]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By SleepyHead:
Egads, me gots egg on me face! I'm so sorry, David... http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/blush1.gif http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/blush2.gif http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/blush3.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You're not the only one! Sorry, David!



------------------

[joelcrowservo]

I'll get back to actual responses later, I just wanted to mention: my actual name is David. Being called Joel was getting weird! Not your mistake tho'!!

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Visit the Beatles experience that is The Walrus Was Crow at www.geocities.com/joelcrowservo (http://www.geocities.com/joelcrowservo)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

OK, David. Do things you like that you didn't do together. If you like movies, and you two didn't see films together, try to see a movie once a week, or so.

------------------
Bandontherun is here
Trying to spread a little cheer
Life is just not fun
Till you've read all the posts by bandontherun!

[joelcrowservo]

Well, it's not such a faux paus really. I mean, I cant think of SleepyHeads real name! And what IS Tims name anywhat? Hmmm. Maybe this could be another new thread.. whats your REAL name (if you care to share). Anyway, more excellent advice from all. Thank you, from the pit of my heart.

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Visit the Beatles experience that is The Walrus Was Crow at www.geocities.com/joelcrowservo (http://www.geocities.com/joelcrowservo)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Most of us already have revealed our names. Everyone- just want to say you can stop calling me bandontherun; my name's Anthony. However continuing the add-y-to-name tradition (Mindy, Forty, Darky), you may call me Bandy.

------------------
Bandontherun is here
Trying to spread a little cheer
Life is just not fun
Till you've read all the posts by bandontherun!

[beatlebangs1964]

David,

You have our full sympathy, prayers and support. In the words of the great John Lennon, "if you're feeling sorry and sad, I'd really sympathize..." Yeah, the Beatles had an appropriate line for every occasion.

It was brave of you and SleepyHead to bare your suffering on these boards. We all care about you.

------------------
Then we will remember things we said today. Yeah.
-- Beatles, 1964

BB1964

[Rellevart]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By joelcrowservo:
Maybe this could be another new thread.. whats your REAL name (if you care to share).
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Check out the Official Birthday List. That has a bunch of "real" names on it!

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I go back so far, I'm in front of me...

[lisa465]

Hi joel,
I just noticed this topic and thought I might respond because I have been through divorce and might be able to help. A little.

First - Please keep in mind that it does get better. When I was going through my divorce 6 years ago, I thought I was literally going to have to move away. My ex wanted to kill me and said so often. He also threatened to steal my children away. Without going into any more details, I just plain didn't think things would ever get back to a level of normalcy (not that I had much of that while I was married to him either).

Anyway! To make a long story short, I made it through. Everything does get better - no matter how hard you feel you have it right now. I even have a somewhat even-keeled relationship with my ex now - which I feel I have to have because of my kids. My other bit of advice is to NOT succumb when your wife/ex-wife comes on to you. It often happens, but it only serves to confuse the situation.

By the way, my song while going through the whole thing was "Here Comes the Sun". The Beatles really helped me through that mess. They've helped me through every single mess I've ever had.

------------------

[FiendishThingie]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By bandontherun:
Most of us already have revealed our names. Everyone- just want to say you can stop calling me bandontherun; my name's Anthony. However continuing the add-y-to-name tradition (Mindy, Forty, Darky), you may call me Bandy.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Bandy!

Anthony's my nephew's name, too! Cool name!

FT http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/wink3.gif



------------------
"Wake up to the love that flows on around you...
...if you believe"

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By joelcrowservo:
my actual name is David. Being called Joel was getting weird! Not your mistake tho'!!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


What does your username mean?


------------------
"Only you keep my eyes open wide. Yes it's true, I live for you..."

-George

[SleepyHead]

Ah, you have a good dose of in-law trouble thrown in for good measure, too? I can't help you there, David. Like I said, the primary hissing scorpions in my hearing during the divorces of my folks were the step-parents. If we happened to mention something one parent did to the other one, and they didn't particularly think highly of said action, (and I have to say both my mom and my dad were pretty much alike in this) the "response" consisted of a very soft but pointed questioning session, and that was it. I have to believe they resorted to phone calls in our absence or letters to actually lash out in those situations. I don't recall hearing my aunts, uncles or grandparents engaging in or allowing to continue any discussion whatsoever that presented either parent as a monster.

Except once... boy, that was a doozy, too. I was about 6 years old, and we had already gone to live with our dad and his mom after my folks split. Mom was living back with her parents, and since Mom was the oldest of 10, there were at least 7 of those siblings still at home... you know, the old "no room at the inn" type of thing.

Anyhow, as in anyone's daily life, things don't always go as planned, and one day my grandmother needed Dad to pick her up from work. I don't recall the details of the situation, I only know that for some reason it was decided that we 5 kids would stay at the house while he was gone. He gave me the same lecture I give my kids.."Don't open the door for anybody, don't go outside, and don't fight with your brothers and sister." I think maybe they were down for a nap, maybe one or two of them were sick or something. Maybe it was grandma who was sick, and Dad had to get there in a hurry... I don't really know, all I know is that was my first "baby-sitting" job.

There must have been some phoning done sometime, because it wasn't too terribly long that I got not one, but 2 phone calls. One from my dad's girlfriend (my future step-mother) and another from my mom. Both women said exactly the same thing. They were on their way, get some clothes in a paper bag for us kids, and she was coming to pick us up. I was not to let anyone but her in the house, etc.

Well, to shorten the whirlwind somewhat, my mom got there first, with her dad. They loaded us up in his car, and hauled us over to my maternal grandparents' house. Soon we were engrossed in enjoying this unexpected visit, and only became disturbed when my dad, my grandma and the girlfriend showed up on grandpa's doorstep. A huge, ugly fight started (nothing physical... Mom has 7 brothers, and they were NOT happy campers). Someone tried to get us into the back part of the house, but you simply could not block out all the angry diatribes and screams and yells and threats... This fight was absolutely worse than anything we'd ever witnessed in the pre-break-up days.

After it was decided that we kids would spend the night (the weekend??) at my grandpa's house, my dad and his entourage left. There was quite a bit of "he should" and "she should" for a while after that, but it was soon hushed up, and all we were told was that Dad wasn't a bad daddy, he'd just made a decision that didn't seem like the right one to my mom.

That one was a rough one...

------------------
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[joelcrowservo]

Ah, well, I suppose I never explained THAT part, did I? 'joelcrowservo', when taken apart, are the names of the original host and his bots of Mystery Science Theater 3000. (Joel Robinson, Crow T. Robot and Tom Servo) Hence, my website title, The Walrus Was Crow! Course, if anybody'd been to my web site, you'd know that already http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/teeth2.gif Perhaps the weirdest thing to deal with is my wifes parents. They are in a pseudo-popular southern gospel group here in Oklahoma, and they *CONDONE* her living with this guy, watching MY kids, and, oh yeah, divorce (to quote Tammy Wynot).This gets me, as they represent Christ about as much as Yessir Arafat. Maybe its just me? However, I'm finding her friends totally shocked and disgusted with her for all this. So that has proved interesting. But, you know, I'm still in the stage that I'd forgive her anything still yet, so yes, maybe dating right now would indeed be a bad idea. Two BTW's: where IS this mysterious birthday list? and my current Fab fave to get me thru? For some reason, take 10 of "Dont Bother Me". You figure it out!

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[Rellevart]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By joelcrowservo:
Two BTW's: where IS this mysterious birthday list? and my current Fab fave to get me thru? For some reason, take 10 of "Dont Bother Me". You figure it out!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's a topic under this "Off the Beatle Track" forum called "The Official Birthday List"....it's got a number of pages, but the last page should have the most up-to-date list!

"Don't Bother Me" is a great pissed-off song! Try "I'm looking through you" too - it's another one I can usually relate to when having love troubles!

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I go back so far, I'm in front of me...

[joelcrowservo]

As usual, thanks mucho Rellevart! Yes, "I thought I knew you, what did I know"... You are right thats great! I'll plug that song in as soon as I get in the car. Course, I'll probably listen to She Loves You or I'll Get You. How pathetic am I? http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/wink.gif

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[joelcrowservo]

Do NOT answer that...

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[Rellevart]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By joelcrowservo:
Do NOT answer that...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, you're no fun!! http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/wink.gif

------------------
I go back so far, I'm in front of me...

[joelcrowservo]

Yes, thats what my wife said...(rim shot)

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Visit the Beatles experience that is The Walrus Was Crow at www.geocities.com/joelcrowservo (http://www.geocities.com/joelcrowservo)

[joelcrowservo]

Well, the 18th is coming up rapidly, and just to finish it (me?) off, radio jobs are zilch right now, so to utilize my training and hard work at school.. I'm working as a bingo clerk. Dear.Could be worse, I suppose. BTW SleepyHead, could you possibly e-mail me and let me know a bit about the basics of Catholicism? It's always interested me, but I'm clueless.

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[SleepyHead]

I'll do my "bestest", David.

------------------
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Bearkat77's Tribute to John Lennon (http://bearkatjl.50megs.com)
Bearkat77's Tribute to Ringo Starr (http://bearkatrs.50megs.com)

[beatlebangs1964]

David,

I am a cradle Catholic and I find my faith to be a great source of comfort.

There is nothing pathetic in anything you've done, said or posted. Heck, "She Loves You" is my favorite song and it has often helped soften some painful blows.

I think you, SleepyHead and others were really brave to share your painful issues. I commend you for your caring and your bravery. You are among friends here, David. I hope things improve for you. We care about you.

------------------
Then we will remember things we said today. Yeah.
-- Beatles, 1964

BB1964

[joelcrowservo]

I think BB64 sums up this whole topic quite well. Some good friends have been made here, I think. Just keep me in your prayers Thursday morning, and I'll let you know how court turns out.

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Visit the Beatles experience that is The Walrus Was Crow at www.geocities.com/joelcrowservo (http://www.geocities.com/joelcrowservo)

[Lynner]

We're pulling for you! Keep thinking good thoughts.

------------------

[Rellevart]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By joelcrowservo:
"I shall never recover"- Mimi Smith

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh David, yes, you will. It may take a while, but you'll recover. I'm sorry you feel so lousy now though. Hang in there. Time really does help. And feel free to come here and vent!


------------------
I go back so far, I'm in front of me...

[SleepyHead]

Oh, David, I'm so sorry... You are in my prayers.

------------------
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Bearkat77's Tribute to John Lennon (http://bearkatjl.50megs.com)
Bearkat77's Tribute to Ringo Starr (http://bearkatrs.50megs.com)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I'm very sorry David. But don't worry. Since I've never had a divorce (nor a marriage), I don't know if you can compare the two, but I haven't fully gotten over George's death, but I'm doing better than I did in early December of last year. You'll feel better, I promise.

------------------
Bandontherun is here
Trying to spread a little cheer
Life is just not fun
Till you've read all the posts by bandontherun!

[beatlebangs1964]

Remember the Beatle classic, "Getting Better all the Time." I will be praying for you during this time of travail. You can vent to us and we're here when you need us.

"If you're feeling sorry and sad, I'd really sympathize..." John Lennon, 1963 from "Anytime At All." Just remember, like that song, any time at all, all you've gotta do is call and WE'LL be there.

------------------
Then we will remember things we said today. Yeah.
-- Beatles, 1964

BB1964

[joelcrowservo]

Okay, I just got back from divorce court. To begin with, when I was about to leave, I discovered my car had a flat. So I fix that quickly as possible, she shows up as I'm changing clothes and basically informs me she doesnt care if I get there or not. Finally got there, went in front of the judge, he asks if theres any chance this can be repaired, she says no, he grants her the divorce and her maiden name. She actually asked me what was wrong with me when we left!I was hoping against hope till the very last minute she'd pull out. I am in immense pain right now, so send those good thoughts down the line and thanks for your prayers and good wishes.
"I shall never recover"- Mimi Smith


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[This Message Has Been Edited By joelcrowservo On April 18, 2002 12:21 PM]

[HMVNipper]

David, I am so sorry I haven't chimed in before now -- I've been thinking of you but at a complete loss as to what to say...and actually, I've been busy helping another friend of mine through her decision to separate from her husband. It's been a tough time for marriages, I guess...

My thoughts are with you, and I hope that you will eventually heal from some of these wounds. It won't be easy, but I'm sure you will emerge strong.



------------------
Rooftop Sessions - The Finest In Beatles-Related Fiction. www.rooftopsessions.com (http://www.rooftopsessions.com) April 2002 Issue Now Up!

"O superb! O Manhattan, my own, my peerless! O strongest you in the hour of danger, in crisis! O truer than steel!" -- Walt Whitman

[PaulisMine]

David -- I'm so sorry that you are feeling lousy right now.
I am sending love and good thoughts your way!
Keep passing the open windows! http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

------------------
I ain't no fool and I don't take what I don't want.

[joelcrowservo]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By PaulisMine:

Keep passing the open windows! http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I cant believe you said that! I'm reading "Hotel New Hampshire" right now!! BTW, glad to hear from you Susan! Thanks.



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Visit the Beatles experience that is The Walrus Was Crow at www.geocities.com/joelcrowservo (http://www.geocities.com/joelcrowservo)

[PaulisMine]

I cant believe you said that! I'm reading "Hotel New Hampshire" right now!!

Hope you are enjoying the book, I always loved that line!
Things will get better, I promise! It doesn't seem like that now, and it sounds like a stupid cliche, but time DOES make a difference.
Keep that chin up!


------------------
I ain't no fool and I don't take what I don't want.

[joelcrowservo]

Well, heres the latest twist and turn (no shouting!): Last night, about 11:00, I got a call from Melanie. Her truck had died out in the middle of nowhere and she calls me to rescue her before anyone else. She wound up getting it started before I got there, but... I didn't know what to think. My mother told me "she wouldn't do it for you!" I just said "yes, but I'm going to do the right thing." Well. Any opines about this latest turn o'events?
P.S.: yeah, I'll recover, but it sure feels like hell now.

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Visit the Beatles experience that is The Walrus Was Crow at www.geocities.com/joelcrowservo (http://www.geocities.com/joelcrowservo)

[Rellevart]

Wow, you sound like a really nice guy. http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif Trying to "do the right thing" even though you're hurt and p*ssed off!

I don't think it's fair of your ex to be calling you though, particularly yesterday!! Eeesh, she has some nerve!!

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I go back so far, I'm in front of me...

[joelcrowservo]

Well, shes the sort of person people either love or hate. I'm obviously in the middle. And yes, I think I'm nice. Maybe too much, ya think? But what gets me is, why call ME first? She called her boyfriend last. And you wonder why I'm confused?

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Visit the Beatles experience that is The Walrus Was Crow at www.geocities.com/joelcrowservo (http://www.geocities.com/joelcrowservo)

[PaulisMine]

Um, if you want me to be honest (and I know you do, right? http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif ) the reason that she called you first is because she wanted to make sure you would come to her rescue. She wanted to be sure that she still has enough power over you to get you to use your time and energy on her. It's all about the ego, if you ask me.
Sorry, that sounds harsh, but from what you have said about the situation, I think it is the truth.
P.S. I have to add that that I love that picture of your son, what a cutie!

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I ain't no fool and I don't take what I don't want.

[joelcrowservo]

Oh thank you, I didnt know if anyone had noticed that. I wish I could make it my icon. Well, Melanie can be quite arrogant, but as I've said, she was sending wildly mixed signals up to the moment we went into court. I don't think she knows, she tells me shes happy, but I saw a poem she wrote about how UN happy she is. Weird.

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[ChrisG134]

She's playing games with you,don't fall for it.My husbands ex does that all the time.She's a bitter divorced woman and they could be nasty.I don't know how many times my husbands ex-wife tries to play games with him and puts the children in the middle of her little games.Like one week-end when it was my husbands time with the girls.She took them to the Radio Music Spectacular(of course she asked him in front of the girls if she could take them even tho it was his week-end)He couldn't say no of course.He would look like the bad guy.She picked them up at noon and said they'd be a few hours.They came home at 11:30 at night!No phone call to tell us they'd be late.Of course she had some one else drop them off,she was to chicken to do it herself.
It sounds like your ex will be the same way.Just be their for your kids don't worry about her.Focus on your kids,your their father and always will be.She can't take that from you.

------------------

[alliesun]

you're in my prayers, david.



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http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/blush4.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Sans-Serif">Quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By joelcrowservo:
Oh thank you, I didnt know if anyone had noticed that. I wish I could make it my icon. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You can. Just ask Jerry and he'll do it for you.

I think she called you first because she's a bit insecure. Remember it was a tough day for her too, and maybe she wanted to make your last meeting a more positive one.


------------------
http://members.home.nl/jpgr/george3.gif
Bandontherun is here
Trying to spread a little cheer
Life is just not fun
Till you've read all the posts by bandontherun!

[SleepyHead]

I believe she called you out of sheer habit, David. Regardless of the circumstances surrounding your marriage and its demise, she obviously knows you as a reliable and safe person. Why didn't she call her boyfriend? Who knows? Maybe she doesn't know him well enough to believe she can rely upon him yet. But whatever the case, I honestly believe she called you simply because during your marriage, she became 1/2 of the whole called "Mr & Mrs David ***", and called you out of habit.

------------------
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Bearkat77's Tribute to John Lennon (http://bearkatjl.50megs.com)
Bearkat77's Tribute to Ringo Starr (http://bearkatrs.50megs.com)

[HMVNipper]

David, I'm really sorry to hear that Melanie is messing with your head like that -- I agree, she probably called you out of habit, but it's a weird thing to do, particularly on the day you divorce...

I'd be VERY wary of her -- it's okay to be a nice guy, but frankly, unless she's in the sticky situation with one of your kids, in future I would suggest that you tell her to call someone else and don't be so quick to jump to her rescue...she's still trying to exert power over you.

Sorry if that sounds kind of harsh, but I've seen too many manipulative ex-wives play games with their ex-husbands if there was any way they could get some personal gain from it...

Just my take on this...

------------------
Rooftop Sessions - The Finest In Beatles-Related Fiction. www.rooftopsessions.com (http://www.rooftopsessions.com) April 2002 Issue Now Up!

"O superb! O Manhattan, my own, my peerless! O strongest you in the hour of danger, in crisis! O truer than steel!" -- Walt Whitman

[beatlebangs1964]

David,

Everyone here has raised good points. I think you are a very nice guy and by virtue of the fact that you wanted to do the right thing certainly reflects well on you. I don't know Melanie and I am loath to criticize her, but based on what you have said here, it certainly does sound like she's playing mind games with you. The timing of the situation certainly speaks to that!

Susan and the others are right, I think, about her exerting some sort of power over you. If you have Caller ID, you can simply screen your calls if she tries to contact you. You can toe the line by following whatever edicts the court hands out and do everything you can to maintain your own high standards.

You are among friends here. Nobody here will judge you. We're here for you. I don't know if you are talking to somebody in person about this, but if not, it can't hurt to at least give it a try. This is the worst time for you to be alone.

I will be praying for you and your family (your son is ADORABLE)! I hope things work out in everybody's best interest. It hurts to see you suffering this way. For a quick fix, put on your favorite Beatle tunes (I recommend "She Loves You," "Things We Said Today," "I'm Happy Just to Dance With You," "Please Please Me" and "Can't Buy Me Love") and try to have some fun. I know it isn't easy, but I, like everyone here has faith in you. Be your own good person, remain true to yourself and your set of core values and it will shine through like a beacon.

Remember, we are here for you.

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Then we will remember things we said today. Yeah.
-- Beatles, 1964

BB1964

[joelcrowservo]

Latest update: Her parents helped buy her (and him) a new car yesterday. Sounds like a reward to me. At least I'm finally getting into the wonderful world of Beatlegs, thanks to some nice folk on the net. Hmm..the most positive thing I've got going is that I'll finally get to hear all 12 takes of "Help!". OK!

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Visit the Beatles experience that is The Walrus Was Crow at www.geocities.com/joelcrowservo (http://www.geocities.com/joelcrowservo)