The Veggie Thread [Archive] - BeatleLinks Fab Forum

Hari's Chick

Mar 23, 2002, 02:55 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote:<HR>Originally Posted By ChrisG134:
How can you say eating meat is not healthy,my grandma& great aunt ate meat their whole lives and live to be 91 & 92.Linda was a veggie and died of cancer.So sometimes it doesn't matter what you eat or do.I think it's all in your genes.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, a lot can be misunderstood by simplifications. Genetics are important, yes, but so is lifestyle. There is proof of the health benefits of eating veggie, but I won't try to persuade you~ you don't sound open to it! But for others reading this, you can read the benefits of being veggie by reading the info at www.webcom.com/ara/col/books/VEG/ht/welcome.html (http://www.webcom.com/ara/col/books/VEG/ht/welcome.html) . Cancer experts concur that that hamburger will cost you~ and also that an increase of soy products will decrease chances of cancer and heart disease. Also, the number one thing that can decrease chances for heart disease is eating more fruits and veggies & decreasing or eliminating meat from your diet. This does more than exercise & lowering fat content COMBINED. As for Linda's being veggie, her recipes were far too high in fat. If you cut out steak, but throw in a whole lot of butter, that's no good, either. Hope this helps. Oh, by the way, PaulisMine, yes~ I'm a veggie! http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

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Guru Brahma
Guru Vishnu
Guru Devo
Maheshwara
Guru Sakshaat
Parabrahma
Tasmayi Shree
Guruve Namah
Hare Rama

[This Message Has Been Edited By Hari's Chick On March 23, 2002 04:19 PM]

Drumhead15

Mar 23, 2002, 05:01 PM

I'm not a vegetarian, but I do try to eat healthy and eat meat sparingly. Some meats I physically can not eat because I read the ingredients on the package once.... I eat lots of fruits and vegetables just because I think they taste good. http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif WARNING: For those of you who like sausages but are easily disgusted, don't read the ingredients!!! http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/barf2.gif

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other girls were never quite like this....

SleepyHead

Mar 24, 2002, 12:35 AM

Actually, it proves nothing. In fact, the doctors and powers that be have proved nothing to me over the years. I have had relatives who died of cancer who never touched or inhaled tobacco (by-)products, while those lived the longest (ie, 90 or better) not only smoked, but got daily doses of mega sun "radiation" (they are farmers, y'see), but smoked very high tar/nicotine brands as well as cigars and pipe tobacco, and several used dip and/or snuff.

As for veggies, I'll eat 'em... but they have to accompany a nice juicy steak and a healthy dose of potatoes. http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/grin.gif

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Mar 24, 2002, 06:00 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote:<HR>Originally Posted By Harbidge:
I once knew a smoker who loved to be over 100 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow, that's a lotta lovin'. http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/wink.gif

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**DONOTDELETE**

Mar 24, 2002, 07:40 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote:<HR>Originally Posted By Harbidge:
I once knew a smoker who loved to be over 100 and an alcoholic who lived to be over 90. Using the same logic you used in your previous post, this proves that smoking and drinking excessively is good for you.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A lady lived to be 97, she smoked 30 cigars a day. However, she thought that people shouldn't smoke, yet never made an attempt to quit.

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"Say you don't love him, my salamander"--
Paul McCartney, "Getting Closer"

**DONOTDELETE**

Mar 24, 2002, 07:43 AM

BTW, I don't think I could ever be a veggie. I practically live on McDonalds.

Once I was kicked out of an Indian restaraunt for bringing in a cheeseburger- that's when I found out cows are sacred therehttp://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/smile1.gif

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"Say you don't love him, my salamander"--
Paul McCartney, "Getting Closer"

Hari's Chick

Mar 24, 2002, 03:04 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote:<HR>Originally Posted By LennonReincarnate:
And I agree with Maccagirl, it feels weird to eat something that was jus' a little bit ago mooing.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is very true. And very few people know the specifics~ most people don't want to think of the fact that when you put a hamburger together~ that red stuff you wash off your hands is blood. And the hamburger, or hot dog, or steak...it's another creatures's blood and muscle tissue and veins. When they kill pigs for "pork" and hot dogs, they slit their throats, put them on a conveyor belt with their throats over a trough and compress their bodies with a weight to "bleed" them....Yum?? http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/chainsaw.gif http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/beer.gif

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Guru Brahma
Guru Vishnu
Guru Devo
Maheshwara
Guru Sakshaat
Parabrahma
Tasmayi Shree
Guruve Namah
Hare Rama

Priitaa

Mar 24, 2002, 10:42 PM

Ok, here's my take on all this.

While Linda was a veggie and died of cancer it had no connection to her vegetarianism but to her cig smoking. After all, cigs are what killed George and he himself said this, so while a veggie diet can help protect a person from cancer, one simultaneously can’t smoke or take in some form of toxins and place the blame on vegetarianism. But I commend George, as he came right out and said it was the cigs which were responsible for his cancer and brain tumor.

As for anybodys Aunt, Uncle, grandmother, etc., who ate meat and lived to the ripe old age of XXX, I'm happy they lived so long. With that said, we must remember there is always the exception to every rule, and there will be some who have natural born longevity, tho the thought does come to mind that, had they gone veggie, it is possible that they could have had an even longer life. Something to consider anyhow.

I have to add, some become veggie for reasons other than health, which is not to say health isn't part of it because it most certainly is, but many become veggies because they love animals too much to cause them harm, love the idea of life in general, the life spark and so on, and want to live as peaceful as possible, which they find would include a nonviolent diet.

With this I can all ready hear the argument, “But you kill vegetables, you take a life.” First, most foods a vegetarian eats fall from the plant naturally or close to it. However, even when that is not the case, the killing of vegetables is different from that of an animal because vegetable plants to not have the highly developed CNS (central nervous system) that animals do. While some may argue they still feel some pain, nevertheless, in comparison, the pain is greatly lesser that that of an animal. For example, imagine walking into a pasture and ripping the leg off a cow (yuck but bear with me) and just eating it raw. First, the pain would be horrid for the animal and secondly, it is the veggie spices, sauces and cooking process that bring the major flavor to the meat. Now imagine walking into a garden and picking a tomato and eating that raw. The pain is much lesser in degree and the tomato tastes pretty darn good. <s>

If people had to kill, skin, and clean it all up and so on, there would be more vegetarians. Of course, there will always be the hunter, the person who not only does not mind doing these things but enjoys them. This is their choice to make. So the Vedic system is that, if anyone wants to eat meat, they must go out and kill their own. Actually, there is a whole process to it which I am not going to get into here, I am just saying we live in a plastic world where everything is nicely covered in plastic wrap, etc., and if we had to smell that smell of death which accompanies skinning the animal, there would be less eating it, tho there will always be some. Taking into consideration that the animals in line to be slaughtered KNOW it, start to cry out for help because they smell the smell of death, as animals are very sensitive to such things, well, I just could not eat another hamburger after hearing that.

I do realize it is hard for some to become a veggie cuz there isn’t much of a support system out there, but one with a lot of criticism. I commend anyone who succeeds!

I agree with the poster who said veggies have pesticides. This is true and why I buy organic, tho that is not always possible. I have heard of various natural sprays one can use to help get those specific poisons off tho. To what degree, I dont know. Anyway, please do not think meat isn’t full of chemicals and all sort of stuff. If they had to list all they put into meat the way they do on veggie products, well, lets just say a person would be real surprised. It makes the chemicals they spray on plants look wimpy. (Not saying that’s ok tho.)

For a quick example of what I just typed, here is a quote from the Higher Taste cookbook link Hari’s chick put up:

>> Sodium nitrate and sodium nitrite, chemicals used as preservatives to slow down putrefaction in cured meat and meat products, including ham, bacon, bologna, salami, frankfurters, and fish, also endanger health. These chemicals give meat its bright-red appearance by reacting with pigments in the blood and muscle. Without them, the natural gray-brown color of dead meat would turn off many prospective consumers. Unfortunately, these chemicals do not distinguish between the blood of a corpse and the blood of a living human, and many persons accidentally subjected to excessive amount have died of poising. Even smaller quantities can prove hazardous, especially for young children or babies, and therefore the United Nations' joint FAO/WHO Expert Committee of Food Additives warned, "Nitrate should on no account be added to baby food." A.J. Lehman of the FDA pointed out that "only a small margin of safety exists between the amount of nitrate that is safe and that which may be dangerous."<<

Regarding both the toxins and the pain, Hare Krishna devotees first offer their foods thru mantra, which, believe it or don’t believe it - that’s up to you, but it changes and spiritualizes the food, frees you from any karmic reaction, as well as gives the plant spiritual benefit too. Even, we cook in that mood. As George said, "When you know someone has begrudgingly cooked something, it doesn't taste as nice as when someone has done it to try and please God, to offer it to Him first. Just that in itself makes all the food taste so much nicer."

And here is a cool link which shows the power of sound vibration. Especially, check out the one that shows a pic of water (polluted!) before the Buddhist monks chanted over it, and the pic after they did! (Its toward the very bottom.)
http://www.jonathangoldman.com/research/water.asp

There also is the question, “But what do I eat if I become a veggie?” Initially many think the food just isn’t as good or they could never learn to cook it, but a good recipe book is all that’s needed. And the food is yummy! <s> The Higher Taste cookbook, and I remember when this from when it first came out, was specifically created to include mostly easy-to-make recipes for the beginner, yet taste real good. (The link to that free online cookbook is all ready on this thread.)

The info is out there for anyone who want to look it up that a vegetarian diet is one of the healthiest with a person being less likely to develop the diseases they would have, had they eaten a meat based diet.

However, the fact will always remain that some who do not want to hear, will not hear, and thats their privlege. I won't come back to engage in a debate. All I wanted to do was point out some things which may not have been considered. Folks can take it, or throw it in the garbage. I’m not attached. <s> Take care! Hare Krishna! <s>

Take care!

Prtha (Pronounced Priitaa)

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Hare Krishna!

[This Message Has Been Edited By Priitaa On March 24, 2002 11:24 PM]

LennonReincarnate

Mar 25, 2002, 12:36 AM

I'm a vegetarian, and have been for exactly 5 months now! I'm proud of myself! You know who inspired me??? George!
And I agree with Maccagirl, it feels weird to eat something that was jus' a little bit ago mooing.
I do have to say, it's not the things you do that will kill you, drinkers and smokers do generally seem to have shorter lives, but, death is merely an occurence of life. It keeps the cycle going.

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<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote:<HR>I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together. -"I Am the Walrus"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

SleepyHead

Mar 25, 2002, 12:43 AM

The main problem I have with eating veggies is the pesticides used to keep the bugs off of them. Nobody uses pesticides on slabs of beef or in the hen-house. And there are very few farmers out there who can afford to lose as much crop as they would without pesticides.

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Cyn1963

Mar 25, 2002, 08:09 PM

I've always been an avid cook and love to read cookbooks. I bought all Linda's after she died. I tried many of the recipes and by October of that year I was hooked! I am totally vegitarian and don't buy meat or cook it in my house. My husband and daughter have to eat what I cook, but will eat meat if we are out. I have no regrets, don't miss a thing, and hey, I hear Burger King just started making veggie burgers!!!!

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SleepyHead

Mar 26, 2002, 12:45 AM

Burger King has always "made it your way", even before veggie burgers. We would have customers order Whoppers without the beef - and before the days of the computer terminal, we'd call back "Grass Sandwich".

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SleepyHead

Mar 26, 2002, 01:33 AM

Alfalfa sprouts, common on salad bars,
contribute to health. Bad health, that is. "Sprouts can be a
hazardous
food," says Dr. Janet C. Mohle-Boetani of the California Department
of
Health's Division of Communicable Disease Control. "Seeds can be
contaminated before sprouting, and no method can eliminate all
[contamination] from seeds." After studying multiple outbreaks of
salmonellosis and one outbreak of E. coli O157 in California,
researchers found that alfalfa and clover sprouts were responsible
for
half, sickening nearly 23,000 people. Washing them doesn't help, they
warn, since "bacteria on the seed surface can become internalized
during sprouting." (Reuters)

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Hari's Chick

Mar 26, 2002, 08:37 AM

Sleepyhead~ Yes! I read this ,too! It is important especially to avoid these sprouts during pregnancy, also if one eats cheese, avoid feta cheese as well. No spinokopita (sp?) if you're pregnant!
Oh, also, I wanted to mention, about pesticides~ you can buy a natural wash (I think it is citus based, but now I am not sure)for your veggies and fruits. In California they have this available at the grocery store. If it is not available elsewhere, I could find the address for you. But, as Prtha said, it is best to buy organic if possible~ good for the earth, as well.

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Guru Brahma
Guru Vishnu
Guru Devo
Maheshwara
Guru Sakshaat
Parabrahma
Tasmayi Shree
Guruve Namah
Hare Rama

[This Message Has Been Edited By Hari's Chick On March 26, 2002 09:07 AM]

Rellevart

Mar 26, 2002, 10:17 AM

I'm not a vegetarian, but I don't eat much meat, mostly because I don't like it all that well. I think there are health benefits to both kinds of diets - you can be an unhealthy veggie and you can be a healthy carnivore - depends on more than just the appearance or lack thereof of meat in your diet.

I don't usually cook meat in my home, but I will eat it in restaurants. Partially this is because restaurant menus aren't terribly veggie-friendly. Partially it's because I'm a touch squeamish and raw meat kind of grosses me out.

Don't think I could ever be a vegan though. I love my dairy products too much!! http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

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I go back so far, I'm in front of me...

lucyinthesky_84

Mar 27, 2002, 03:26 AM

I'm a veggie. Not because it's "healthy" but because meat makes me http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/barf3.gif.

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"It's time we start smiling,
What else should we do?"

[George Harrison, "Behind That Locked Door"]

Priitaa

Mar 27, 2002, 02:45 PM

Most who have been veggies for a period of time know that ya can't trust salad bars, or at least the sprouts. Sprouts are known to grow bacteria by those who raise them in an uncaring environment. (Tho some health food restaurants are conscientious.) Its best to grow your own and just wash them often. That solves the bacterial problem! http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif Or just avoid sprouts. No one said all vegetarians must eat sprouts to qualify as a vegetarian. http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif Heck, most didn't even know about sprouts in the 60s and 70s, yet we were the first ones in a long time anyway, to bring genuine attention to vegetarian diet as a healthy diet.

I agree that one can be unhealthy and yet be eating vegetarian foods. Of course most veggies aren't doing it only for health but I wont get into much of that right now (just read the cookbook link). Veggie diet requires some study and even back in the day (as I started becoming a vegetarian in 1973) those of us intersted obtained books on how to do it, knowing that health required knowledge of the "how-to's." There was a really cool bookstore near my college. It was owned by this hippie couple who were married and had a baby. So, I bought a couple veggie cookbooks there. Unfortunately today, too many jump into it blindly, assuming any veggie food they eat is a healthy food. Fried foods are not healthy like potato chips and so on. Sugar is unhealthy. White flour is not healthy. I am a label reader. Some people hate label reading or feel it is too time consuming, or that good health should not require that otherwise its ridiculous. I agree, both, that it shouldn't require that but that it is ridiculous the manufacturers contaminate our food with so much chemicals and junk that we have to read every label as well as make sure we buy organic produce, in order to get something even close to as good as grandma got without her even having to think about it. Yet that is the world we live in.

Of course then there is the whole point that human beings dont have meat eating bodies, the size of our intestines alone will cause meat to rot in there and in turn, a disease can more easily follow. And that is just one. There are many other biological differences between us and the natural born meat eating creatures, but that is as much as I feel I comfortable putting here. http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

With all that said, it is much easier to be a healthy vegetarian, especially cuz they don't list most of what else goes into meat, including what they feed the animals (hormones, antibiotics, tranquilizers) before they kill them. Plus, when they are in line to be slaughtered, they know it and start to release their own natural made toxin due to fear. Technically, they are called "pain posions." They are like a powerful stimulant and as if they weren't bad enough on their own, they also join together with the wastes that are all ready inside the animals like urea and so on, to contaminate the meat further.

I bought that spray once, the one that gets the chemicals off of plants ya eat. It was great but of course ran out and our store stopped carrying it. Then, due to an alternative medical newsletter I get (from an MD) he said that if you can't get the spray, just use vinegar! To soak the tomato or whatever in it for a while. Then just rinse it off. While it may not be as good, its pretty darn good!

Of course for me, it is not just about health. That's part of it, but it doesn't end there. Its also about a nonviolent diet.

Anyway, thats my two cents. http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

Namaste,

Prtha

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Hare Krishna!

[This Message Has Been Edited By Priitaa On March 27, 2002 03:29 PM]

C-Moon

Mar 27, 2002, 02:52 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote:<HR>Originally Posted By SleepyHead:
The main problem I have with eating veggies is the pesticides used to keep the bugs off of them. Nobody uses pesticides on slabs of beef or in the hen-house. And there are very few farmers out there who can afford to lose as much crop as they would without pesticides.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
uh, Sleepy, I don't know how to break this to you but you're ingesting pesticides from water contamination from "run-off" from fields and whatever the animal ingested. Plus, especially with beef, you're getting all the steroids & hormones they're pumping into the animals to make them meatier. At least you can WASH the pesticides off the fruits & vegetables. You can't do anything about the chemicals in the meat.

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Love is a flower, you gotta let it, you gotta let it grow" JL

Hari's Chick

Mar 27, 2002, 11:13 PM

DARK HORSE LENTIL SOUP

1 red chili
1 teaspoon cumin seeds
2 large onions, chopped
2 cloves garlic
1 cup lentils
2 large tomatoes, chopped
2 green peppers, chopped
1 bay leaf
salt and pepper to taste

Heat a small amount of oil in a frying pan. When oil is good and hot add the red chili and cumin seeds. When the seeds stop sputtering, brown the onions and garlic in seasoned oil. In a separate deep pan, wash the lentils in plenty of water. When clean, liberally cover with water. When the onions are browned, add them to the pan of lentils. Now add the tomatoes, peppers, bay leaf, salt and pepper. Potatoes, carrots, and small boiling onions may be added for a more substantial meal. Bring to a boil, cover and turn down to a very low heat. The soup is ready to serve in an hour and tastes even better the next day.

Serves four (of course! http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif )

(from "Mary Frampton and Friend's Rock and Roll Recipes")

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Guru Brahma
Guru Vishnu
Guru Devo
Maheshwara
Guru Sakshaat
Parabrahma
Tasmayi Shree
Guruve Namah
Hare Rama

SleepyHead

Mar 28, 2002, 01:04 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote:<HR>Originally Posted By C-Moon:
uh, Sleepy, I don't know how to break this to you but you're ingesting pesticides from water contamination from "run-off" from fields and whatever the animal ingested. Plus, especially with beef, you're getting all the steroids & hormones they're pumping into the animals to make them meatier. At least you can WASH the pesticides off the fruits & vegetables. You can't do anything about the chemicals in the meat.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In meat, pesticides usually reside in the fat and are cumulative. One way to lower pesticide exposure is to choose extra lean ground beef and to buy lean steaks. FDA studies have shown that lean beef has a much lower chance of pesticides than most fruits and vegetables.

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SleepyHead

Mar 28, 2002, 01:05 AM

"The following chart from Michigan State University lists the nanograms of natural estrogen (estrogen is a steroid hormone) in 100 gram (3-½ oz. serving). A nanogram is one billionth of a gram.

Unimplanted Steer Beef 1.3
Implanted Steer Beef 1.9
Peas 340.0
Ice Cream 520.0
Cabbage 2,000.0
Wheat Germ 3,400.0
Soybean Oil 1,680,000.0"

Dr. Harlan Ritchie, Michigan State University, Dr. Gary Smith, Colorado State University 1995

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[This Message Has Been Edited By SleepyHead On March 28, 2002 01:07 AM]

SleepyHead

Mar 28, 2002, 01:08 AM

QUESTION - How many nanograms of estrogen are produced daily by the human endocrine system?

Male child before puberty 41,000
Female child before puberty 54,000
Adult male 136,000
Non-pregnant female 480,000
Pregnant female 20,000,000

Dr. Harlan Ritchie, Michigan State University, Dr. Gary Smith, Colorado State University 1995

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SleepyHead

Mar 28, 2002, 01:09 AM

There are over 100 hormones, steroids and econosoids produced by the endocrine and the paracrine systems. Generally, they occur in pairs and have opposing effects. When the natural balance is altered, health problems can occur. An example is insulin and glycogen produced by the pancreas. If too much or too little of either of these is produced, we can have an imbalance resulting in hypoglycemia, diabetes, fat storage or kidney impairment. If sex hormones such as estrogen, and testosterone are out of balance (even in an unborn fetus,) sexual behavior can be affected.

1. "The Superhormone Promise" by Dr. William Regelson, M.D. and Carol Colman.

2."Our Stolen Future" by Theo. Colborn, Dianne Dumanoski, and John Peterson Meyers.

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[This Message Has Been Edited By SleepyHead On March 28, 2002 01:36 AM]

SleepyHead

Mar 28, 2002, 01:13 AM

The EPA and the U.S. Surgeon General acknowledged more studies are needed to determine the relationship between chemical/pesticide exposure and a recent dramatic increase in learning disabilities, autism, aggression, dyslexia and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder amongst our children (1 in 6 American children are currently afflicted with the above disorders).

"Kids At Risk", U.S. News Cover Story, June 19, 2000

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SleepyHead

Mar 28, 2002, 01:14 AM

1: The majority of chemicals used on our fruit and vegetables are WATER INSOLUBLE; therefore water alone will not remove these unwanted contaminants.

2: Millions of pounds of contaminated fruits and vegetables are shipped every year. The FDA inspects only approximately 1% of those shipments and virtually EVERY piece of contaminated fruit or vegetable reaches the American public.

3: Without a court order the FDA has no authority to hold fruit or vegetable shipments while tests are being made. That means by the time testing is done the fruit has been consumed! Now here's the real Catch 22. The FDA can't even get a court order unless they can prove that the shipment is contaminated.

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SleepyHead

Mar 28, 2002, 01:19 AM

Produce Safety: New Data on Pesticide Levels

September 2000
ConsumerReports.org (http://www.consumerreports.org)

Pesticide residues on some foods continue to be too high, especially for children, according to an analysis we did to update our March 1999 report How safe is our produce? which was based on data from 1994 through 1997 from the U.S. Department of Agriculture.

This year's analysis, which includes 1998 data, found a new problem with fresh strawberries and a continuing one with winter squash, especially the frozen variety. Some other foods, including peaches, remain of concern for pesticide levels (see "Pesticide levels: Foods compared," below, for a listing).

It's likely that toxicity scores for some foods (with asterisks in the listing below) will soon be dropping, thanks to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's recent decision to restrict the use of two heavily used pesticides, methyl parathion and chlorpyrifos.

Our new findings don't change our recommendations. Parents should feed children a variety of fresh fruits and vegetables but avoid giving them large quantities of foods with higher toxicity scores (children eat more produce per pound of body weight than adults and are more sensitive to some effects of pesticides). Peeling and washing will remove most pesticide residues. An exception is U.S. frozen winter squash, which we consider to be too risky to serve to young children. Another option is to seek out organic produce; in our January 1998 report Greener greens?, we found it to have few or no pesticide residues.

Like our 1999 analysis, this one was supported in part by the Pew Charitable Trusts, the Joyce Foundation, and the W. Alton Jones Foundation.

Pesticide levels: Foods compared

Here's how foods ranked according to our analysis, based on government tests from 1994 to 1998. We've classified foods according to the level and frequency of residues and the toxicity of the particular chemicals. Unless specifically noted, foods are fresh and rankings apply to both imported and domestic products. Within groups, foods are listed in alphabetical order. Our list is necessarily limited to foods the government has tested; therefore, you shouldn't draw conclusions about foods that aren't listed. For foods with an asterisk, it's likely residue toxicity will decline in the future because of new restrictions on the pesticides commonly used on them.

OF VERY HIGH CONCERN
U.S. peaches*, U.S. frozen winter squash.

OF HIGH CONCERN
Apples*, U.S. green beans, Chilean peaches, strawberries, Mexican tomatoes*, U.S. winter squash.

OF MODERATE CONCERN
Mexican broccoli; cantaloupe; celery; Chilean, South African, and U.S. grapes; U.S. frozen and canned green beans*; lettuce; pears*; potatoes; canned and fresh spinach; frozen strawberries; U.S. tomatoes.

OF LOW CONCERN
Carrots, Mexican grapes, Mexican green beans, oranges, sweet potatoes, Mexican winter squash.

OF VERY LOW CONCERN
Apple juice, bananas, grape juice, milk, orange juice, canned peaches, processed sweet peas, processed sweet corn, U.S. broccoli, Mexican frozen winter squash

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SleepyHead

Mar 28, 2002, 01:22 AM

Pesticides, foods, and you

March 2001
ConsumerReports.org (http://www.consumerreports.org)

Four years ago, Congress charged the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) with an enormous task: Assess some 9,000 agricultural-pesticide uses and when needed, restrict or ban them to make sure that exposure levels are safe, particularly for children.

The effort, a mandate of the Food Quality Protection Act, is expected to take many more years to complete. Consumers Union has analyzed the EPA's progress to date, as part of an ongoing project funded in part by grants from the Pew Charitable Trusts, the Joyce Foundation, and the W. Alton Jones Foundation.

The Consumers Union study, "Report Card for the EPA," shows that the agency has made considerable progress in some areas--such as banning several of the most toxic pesticides for use on some foods and around the home--but it still has a long way to go.

To perform the analysis, Consumers Union used data from the Department of Agriculture and the EPA to create a toxicity index and toxicity-index scores for dozens of fruits, vegetables, and beverages based on the pesticides that government testing detected in them.

The analysis identified 458 pesticide/food combinations (such as azinphos-methyl on apples) for U.S. produce for which there was federal testing data and gave toxicity-index scores to each of them, based on the amount and frequency of residues and the toxicity of each pesticide. This approach can help determine the relative contributions of different pesticides to overall risk and show which uses of specific chemicals on specific foods pose the largest relative risks. Indeed, the Consumers Union analysis found that the 92 uses with the highest scores, or about 20 percent of the list, accounted for 97 percent of the total score for all uses. These 92 riskiest uses should be obvious priorities for the EPA, the study suggests.

The agency has taken some action. In 1999 the EPA banned for many food uses the insecticide methyl parathion--the chemical with the single highest toxicity-index score in Consumers Union's analysis. This step alone should reduce by 29 percent the combined toxicity-index score for the 92 riskiest uses. And it reduces the score for U.S.-grown peaches by 87 percent.

But overall, the EPA has made little progress reassessing most uses of most pesticides, the Consumers Union study says. For example, all agency actions to date will reduce total dietary risk by 37 percent--leaving almost two-thirds of the job still to be done.

Also, the EPA's decisions have had uneven effects, the study suggests. While the agency's actions on methyl parathion eliminated almost all dietary risk from that pesticide, its review of azinphos-methyl, another highly toxic insecticide widely used on fruits and vegetables, left almost all of that risk untouched. And for many foods that contribute significantly to children's dietary pesticide exposure--such as pears, green beans, and spinach--EPA's decisions have barely reduced risk at all.

Another challenge for the EPA: to continually assess overall pesticide exposure and risk as new pesticides replace those that have been banned, the study says.

The study is on CU's advocacy web site, www.consumersunion.org, (http://www.consumersunion.org,) and on CU's project web site, www.ecologic-ipm.com. (http://www.ecologic-ipm.com.)

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[This Message Has Been Edited By SleepyHead On March 28, 2002 01:25 AM]

SleepyHead

Mar 28, 2002, 01:26 AM

DDT and other pesticides banned decades ago still linger in soil and show up regularly in residue tests.

The findings suggest that parents might want to be careful about the types and amounts of fruits and vegetables they serve their children--while still making sure they get plenty of healthful produce. While peeling can greatly reduce pesticide residues on many fruits and vegetables, it can't eliminate them.

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SleepyHead

Mar 28, 2002, 01:34 AM

In conclusion: You cannot "wash" the pesticides off of fruits and vegetables. Extensive processing does tend to diminish the levels of toxins found in common fruits and vegetables, but the processing itself also diminishes the vitamins and minerals, meaning you're feeding yourself home-grown candy... calories with little or no beneficials.

Steroids and other implants used to stimulate lean muscle growth over fat growth of an animal also reduces the chance of same steroids being ingested by consumer, since by nature steroids, etc., are stored primarily in the fatty tissues, not in the muscles.

Steroids, cholesterol, etc., are produced by your body everyday, and the body is equipped to handle them... We do not normally produce toxins such as the chemicals used in the vast majority of fruit/vegetable crops grown/imported into the United States.

After all is said and done, you have to decide which is riskier for you... I don't wish to add all that many toxins into my system, so I'll remain primarily a meat-eater.

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SleepyHead

Mar 28, 2002, 01:41 AM

Problem pesticides

Several foods in our analysis frequently provided excessive amounts of insecticides. Three chemicals stood out as problems:

Methyl parathion. One of the most potent members of a family of insecticides known as organophosphates, it accounted for almost all of the toxicity score of domestic peaches and frozen green beans and much of the toxicity score for apples and pears.

"Organophosphates are all designed to be neurological poisons," explains Dr. Philip Landrigan, chairman of the department of community and preventative medicine at Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York. "They work fundamentally the same in humans as in insects."

In late 1998 the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), which regulates pesticides, released a preliminary risk assessment of methyl parathion that concluded it posed an "unacceptable risk" as currently allowed to be used.

Children are being exposed to unacceptable levels of the chemical, our study found. In 1996, the last year fresh peaches were tested, two in five U.S.-grown peach samples contained methyl parathion. Residue levels were so high that single servings consistently exceeded the EPA's current safe daily limit for a 44-pound child--the average 5-year-old.

National figures show that farmers are now using less methyl parathion on peaches than they did in 1996, but they're using more on apples and green beans.

Dieldrin. This carcinogenic pesticide was taken off the market in 1974. But it continues to pose as much risk as many chemicals still in use because it takes decades to disappear from the soil.

In 1997, the only year the USDA tested winter squash, dieldrin showed up in three-quarters of the frozen squash samples. Two-thirds of the positive samples had enough dieldrin per individual serving to exceed the safe daily limit for a young child. In all, the odds are 77 percent that a serving has too much of some pesticide.

Dieldrin, unlike methyl parathion, is absorbed into the pulp of the vegetable rather than being concentrated on or near the skin. That makes it impossible to wash off. Crops especially prone to absorb dieldrin include root vegetables and members of the cucurbit family, such as squash, melons, and cucumbers. Farmers can avoid the problem by not planting these crops in soil contaminated with dieldrin.

Aldicarb. Of all pesticides currently in use, it's the most acutely toxic. Growers stopped using aldicarb in 1990, but some potato growers in Washington state and Idaho resumed in 1996. And use is increasing.

The USDA found aldicarb in about 6 percent of the potatoes it tested in 1997. Because of the potential for immediate toxic effects, the agency tested 160 individual potatoes from these positive samples. About 1 in 20 had more than the safe limit for a young child.

Like dieldrin, aldicarb permeates produce and can't be washed off.

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SleepyHead

Mar 28, 2002, 01:53 AM

Food Handling Tips

Rinse fresh fruit and vegetables thoroughly under running water. Although some pesticides are absorbed into fruits and vegetables, many residues are found on the surface. Washing will remove most surface waxes and residues, along with dirt and microbial contamination. Peeling fruits and vegetables also removes surface residues. But remember that some nutrients and fiber may be lost in peeling.

Don't use household soap to wash produce. Most soap is not meant to be consumed and can cause intestinal distress.

Throw away the outer leaves of leafy vegetables like lettuce and cabbage.

Cooking or baking foods reduces some (but not all) pesticide residues.

California Environmental Protection Agency
DEPARTMENT OF PESTICIDE REGULATION
830 K Street
Sacramento, CA 95814-3510

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Priitaa

Mar 28, 2002, 02:54 AM

Buy organic, start a garden when possible, raise your own sprouts if into sprouts, use the veggie wash or vinegar to get some of it off.

Nothings perfect in an imperfect world, but some things are better than others.

Its a matter of degree and is not based on "all or none" ideas that to be good a food must be 100% and always good.

Long lists of the same thing mean nothing, as there is always something bad somewhere in some food, even veggie foods. Thats a symmptom of this age we live in.

Those who do not want to hear, will not hear. http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif (Yes, I know that's rhetorical. <sigh> )

Prtha

------------------
Hare Krishna!

[This Message Has Been Edited By Priitaa On March 28, 2002 03:08 AM]

Hari's Chick

Mar 28, 2002, 09:22 AM

Sleepyhead~ First, I highly commend all the research you have done to support your beliefs. You have done much homework. I have many books which I will have to dig up & page through to support my points...and unfortunately, I have very little time! But quickly, I just wanted to say a couple of things....

You mentioned something about kids & a whole host of health problems nowadays~ presumably linking them to kids eating more veggies. The truth is, kids get their vitamins mostly from pills and cereal. Something like half of kids get only ONE serving EACH day! That is in America. So, at least in the U.S., this therory is not true.

I did not read every post you made, but I will later...I just skimmed them. What is hard, and why I did not try to persuade the first carnivorous poster, is that someone with such a conviction to ignore what is commonly accepted now about health~ (doctors agree that veggie lifestyle is the best... the Mayo Clinic and American Cancer Society and American Heart Association are all on the side of being veggie)~ must have a vested interest in remaining a meat eater. And that is their decision and henceforth their karma. I do not have a problem with people having an opinion different than mine~ this makes life interesting. What I find heartbreaking is the slaughter of animals.

Within each animal, I see Lord Krishna. To a Christian, they see animals as "God's creation". As it would be unheard of to enter a museum and tear up a Picasso or the like, how much the worse to tear up one of God's creations. (Or for me, a manifestation of life and God Himself). I know what is coming next...Genesis quotes! Then we can get into fundamental bible interpretaions, etc. etc. Really no point to all that, as I can imagine all the arguments before. Fact is, to have the least impact on the earth, in fact the only way to eventually eliminate hunger globally and keep up with population growths, is for everyone to adopt a veggie diet. Cows eat so much, and then do not "feed" as many with their flesh as could be full off the same amount of farm space used for veggies and grains. In sum, I hate to see animals killed~ I hate to see children starving~ anywhere in the world...that is primarily why I am a veggie.

------------------
Guru Brahma
Guru Vishnu
Guru Devo
Maheshwara
Guru Sakshaat
Parabrahma
Tasmayi Shree
Guruve Namah
Hare Rama

C-Moon

Mar 28, 2002, 04:11 PM

Wow, Sleepy! I'm overwhelmed by your research! I'm equally awed by the research I've seen by the vegetarian side.
I think this is one of those "damned it you do, damned if you don't" choices. Everything's contaminated, the food, the land, the water, the air...it's up to us to make it better before we're all poisoned.

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Love is a flower, you gotta let it, you gotta let it grow" JL

Hari's Chick

Mar 29, 2002, 12:04 AM

Okay...here are some stats I was able to glean today~

In studies from prestigious Universities including Cornell, Harvard, and Berkeley...also the New England Journal of Medicine...a Vegetarian diet is responsible for the following:
significant decrease in heart disease
stronger immune systems
longer life spans
repairing damaged hearts
arresting rheumatoid arthritis
improving memory, perception, and attention
decreasing chances of aquiring diverticulitis
fighting bacterial/ viral infections
thwarting hearing loss
diminished chances of gallstones
detering diabetes
slowing the aging process
helping decrease allergies, asthma, & colitis
increasing metabolisms
decreasing chances of a stroke
fighting impotence in males
less bone loss in females
preventing diseases of kidney & urinary
tracts
lowering cholesterol
significantly reducing chances of aquiring
the following cancers:
lung
breast
bladder
stomach
prostate
skin
colon
ovarian
Further, it has been noted in & related to spontaneous cancer cures

There is so much info on the above that it seems overwhleming to me to post it all! Here are a few little notes.
ON HEALTH:
The risk of death from heart disease for the average American man whose diet is animal based is 50%. The risk of death from heart disease for the average American man who consumes no meat is 15%. From Harvard, "Of all diets out there to chose from,the vegetarian diet is obviously the best. Everything else is a compromise".
ON ANIMAL WELFARE:
14 million animals are slaughtered every day in America alone for the carnivorous diet. These animals live "short, unhealthy lives of confinement and suffering before being butchered...they are not protected by law from inhumane conditions or treatment and routinely undergo painful procedures such as branding, castration (without any anesthetics!), de-beaking, suffocation, light depravation, and overcrowding". Our very own Paul says, "If slaughterhouses had glass walls, everyone would be vegetarian".
ON CHEMICALS IN MEAT:
"Of all the antibiotics used in the US, 55% are fed to livestock. Hormones, pesticides, insecticides, toxic dyes, and compounds are also routinely used on animals raised for their meat. Less than one out of every quarter million animals is tested for resides." The drugs include sulfa drugs, which have a high insidence of allergic reactions in people.
ON THE ENVIRONMENT:
And remember "Still they're chopping down the forrest for McDonalds and the Burger King"? Who said that?? http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif Well, once again, George is right (never, ever doubted that!)...one acre of trees per year is saved EACH TIME a person switches to a veggie diet. This is because 260 million acres of American's FORESTLAND have been cleared to provide cropland for cattle. Further, "Agriculture is the leading cause of water pollution in the US~ the majority is due to livestock production...fifty times more fossil fuels are needed to produce a meat-centered diet than a veggie one...40% OF ALL CENTRAL AMERICAN RAIN FORRESTS WERE DISTROYED TO CREATE PASTURE FOR BEEF CATTLE....and a typical 4 oz hamburger made from rain forrest flesh represents the destruction of 55 square feet of tropical forrest, an area equal to the size of a small kitchen."

There is so, so much more info...but for now...
Why did Mr Rogers decide to become a vegetarian? "It had something to do with eating things that had a face". http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/afraid3.gifhttp://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/barf2.gif

------------------
Guru Brahma
Guru Vishnu
Guru Devo
Maheshwara
Guru Sakshaat
Parabrahma
Tasmayi Shree
Guruve Namah
Hare Rama

SleepyHead

Mar 29, 2002, 02:13 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote:<HR>Originally Posted By C-Moon:
I think this is one of those "damned it you do, damned if you don't" choices. Everything's contaminated, the food, the land, the water, the air...it's up to us to make it better before we're all poisoned.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Precisely the point I was trying to make, C-Moon! Pesticidal contaminants versus steroidal/antibiotic additives? What kind of choice is that?? Keeping the forests and letting the herds die from lack of adequate grazing grounds? Or keep eating beef and heighten your risks of heart attack?

I won't touch cancer... damned near everything you come in contact with, including the emanations from your computer chips and cell-phones, are proven carcinogens to some faction of society somewhere.

I don't have the time or energy to continually worry about whether something I touch, eat, or otherwise come in contact with may one day prove to be the final stroke of my own death-warrant. I wasn't placed on this earth to be so selfishly concerned about my own well-being, but to learn how to be the part of God I was designed to be and to lead others to Him.

In such matters where, as you so aptly put it, I'm "damned if I do, damned if I don't", I must use other criteria to determine which route I shall take. Years ago, the route to remain a carnivore was determined by the fact that I could fill my hungry belly faster with less meat (at a cheaper per-pound price) than I could vegetables of any variety... So money determined for years what I could afford to eat, and not go to bed hungry. Now, I find the same is still true when it comes to feeding my children. It takes approximately 3 times the vegetables, grains, etc., to fill their hungry bellies than it does meat, and meat is still cheaper by the pound.

The human race has been carnivorous for several millenia... a dietary choice sanctioned by God since the time of Noah and the Ark. What God has deemed appropriate I shall in no way attempt to argue against. But I do not attempt to tell others what they must or must not do... Just as one cancer victim feels he must opt for chemo to lengthen his life-span, and another refuses to live whatever extra time he may derive from chemo suffering the dreadful side-effects, we all must make that choice for ourselves. I just want us to make sure that we have all the pros & cons to both choices before committing to one or the other.

I merely wanted to point out that there are severe drawbacks to the veggie lifestyle that are just as crippling as the drawbacks to the meat-eating one. You should never jump from the bed of a truck going down the wrong highway onto the flat-car of the train going who knows where. Make sure you're on the train/truck you really want to be on.

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Hari's Chick

Mar 29, 2002, 09:03 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote:<HR>Originally Posted By SleepyHead:
1. Pesticidal contaminants versus steroidal/antibiotic additives? What kind of choice is that?? 2. Keeping the forests and letting the herds die from lack of adequate grazing grounds?
3.I wasn't placed on this earth to be so selfishly concerned about my own well-being, but to learn how to be the part of God I was designed to be and to lead others to Him.

4.It takes approximately 3 times the vegetables, grains, etc., to fill their hungry bellies than it does meat, and meat is still cheaper by the pound.

5. What God has deemed appropriate I shall in no way attempt to argue against.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Okay~ I will do a point for point:

1. According to the University of California Berkeley, Vegetarian diet is still the right choice by far. Pesticides can also be reduced & avoided, and the vegetarian diet simply provides too much in health benefits. These outweigh any concerns over pesticides.

2. Hmmm...the cows were put there in the first place to be slaughtered, not cared for. Are you worrying if people stopped eating meat, these cows would not be able to live to old age?? They will not anyway, and many more will follow them in their sad little hoof-prints.

3. I do not feel it is selfish to take good care of the body-temple God has given me. It shows my love, care, and appreciation of God's gift to me.

4. Ounce per ounce plants and grains are cheaper than flesh products. And add soy and lentils to you list~ brown rice~ and you will reap many health benefits at very little cost as well. No, I must say, a balanced, delicious, veggie diet costs much less than a meat one.

5. The bible..."I will make a covenant...with the beasts of the field and the birds of the air and the creatures that move along the ground. Bow and sword and battle I will abolish from the land, so that all may lie down safely".

And from St Francis: "Not to hurt our humble brethren (animals) is our first duty to them. But to stop there is not enough. We have a higher mission- to be of service to them whenever they require it".

St Francis would be pretty sad to see cows castrated without anesthetics, or to see the factory farmed chickens..."The life span of a chicken is about twenty years. However, (these) chickens are pulled from their cages at 16 months and taken to the slaughterhouse. 'Redskins' is the phrase used to describe chickens who have evaded death, in spite of being hit with a powerful electric shock, having their throats slit, and being dipped in scalding water. Those who survive this, the 'redskins', are tossed, still alive, into a bin where they are later ground into feed".

Further, some sad statistics...
"You could save the life of a child. Currently, a child dies of malnutrition every 2.3 seconds. If more people became vegetarian, there would be an impact on these tragic statistics. Consider:
* Amount of American corn consumed by people: 20%
* Amount of American corn consumed by livestock: 80%
* Amount of American soybeans consumed by people: 10%
* Amount of American soybeans consumed by livestock: 90%"

There is so much more info, but I think this gets the idea across....http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/afraid1.gifhttp://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/chainsaw.gif

------------------
Guru Brahma
Guru Vishnu
Guru Devo
Maheshwara
Guru Sakshaat
Parabrahma
Tasmayi Shree
Guruve Namah
Hare Rama

Rellevart

Mar 29, 2002, 09:18 AM

Hey all, maybe this is a matter on which it would be best to just agree to disagree. I've found that it's rare that anyone is "converted" one way or another by throwing a lot of facts around. It's basically each person's individual lifestyle decision and there really isn't a right and a wrong to it. I'm never going to eat a roast because my meat-eating friends tell me to and I'm never going to completely cut meat out of my diet because my veggie friends tell me to. And I plan on continuing to have both kinds of friends! http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

Do what you think is best for you and leave everyone else to do what they think is best for them. http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

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I go back so far, I'm in front of me...

ChrisG134

Mar 29, 2002, 09:20 AM

Mar 29, 2002, 10:56 AM

You know I heard that people who don't eat meat are more unheathy and weaker than the ones who do eat meat. I don't think you can get as much protien from bean and nuts as you can from meat.

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"A working class hero is something to be."
-John Lennon
;devil1;

macca4eva

Mar 29, 2002, 11:36 AM

http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/confused.gif I'm a tad confused on the diet of a vegetarian. I guess this exclusion of eggs and milk throws me off or something, but I thought vegetarians just excluded meat. Could someone enlighten me on the diet of a Vegetarian?

------------------

Hari's Chick

Mar 29, 2002, 11:41 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote:<HR>Originally Posted By DizzyDevil2003:
You know I heard that people who don't eat meat are more unheathy and weaker than the ones who do eat meat. I don't think you can get as much protien from bean and nuts as you can from meat.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, amino acids do not discriminate. There are 13, I believe amino acids we need for protein. These are all present in a veggie diet. The important thing to remember is to pair two of the following groups over the span of one day (pretty easy to do):
grains
legumes
dairy

These are so basic that really it is very hard to be deficient in protein. Diets too high in protein can actually really tax your body!

------------------
Guru Brahma
Guru Vishnu
Guru Devo
Maheshwara
Guru Sakshaat
Parabrahma
Tasmayi Shree
Guruve Namah
Hare Rama

Hari's Chick

Mar 29, 2002, 11:51 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote:<HR>Originally Posted By Rellevart:
Hey all, maybe this is a matter on which it would be best to just agree to disagree. I've found that it's rare that anyone is "converted" one way or another by throwing a lot of facts around. It's basically each person's individual lifestyle decision and there really isn't a right and a wrong to it. Do what you think is best for you and leave everyone else to do what they think is best for them. http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Rellevart~ That is okay with me! I am not trying to convert anyone, just provide a little info on the veggie diet. While Sleepy and I have gone back & forth, I very much respect her and by no means hold any ill feelings! To the contrary, she has made me reaffirm my commitment to purchase organic produce. Sometimes this takes more effort~ but after reading Sleepy's posts I feel more informed on these matters. I hope I have given something as well in my info.

I, also, have many friends who are carnivores...what is important is to share info in the spirit of love (and for me, service to Krishna). I would like to post some veggie recipes, but hesitated to do so on the "Are You Hungry?" thread because I was afraid it may be perceived as being antagonistic. Would anyone mind?

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Guru Brahma
Guru Vishnu
Guru Devo
Maheshwara
Guru Sakshaat
Parabrahma
Tasmayi Shree
Guruve Namah
Hare Rama

PaulisMine

Mar 29, 2002, 01:07 PM

I appreciate everyone's responses on this thread! I hope that there is no ill will at all, I was just being nosy about who out there might be veggie.
macca4ever, technically a "vegetarian" is someone that doesn't eat any meat at all. There are people that exclude all animal products, such as milk and eggs, they are called vegans. Then other vegetarians only eat dairy, but not eggs, or the other way around (and no meat).
Others eat only fruit or eat a macrobiotic diet (its a vegetarian diet that is pretty strict, I'm sorry I don't know very much about it).
From my experience, when people refer to themselves as vegetarian, that just means no meat in the diet, but still eggs, cheese, etc.
Hope this clears things up!

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I ain't no fool and I don't take what I don't want.

macca4eva

Mar 29, 2002, 07:40 PM

http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/yeah.gif Thank you for clearing that up PaulisMine! I think I understand now.

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Rellevart

Mar 30, 2002, 12:18 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote:<HR>Originally Posted By Hari's Chick:
I would like to post some veggie recipes, but hesitated to do so on the "Are You Hungry?" thread because I was afraid it may be perceived as being antagonistic. Would anyone mind?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would love that, and I don't think it would be antagonistic at all! I cook mostly vegetarian food at home and would love to see some yummy veggie recipes! http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

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I go back so far, I'm in front of me...

SleepyHead

Mar 30, 2002, 12:49 AM

I, too, bear no ill will towards you, Hari's Chick! http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif And by all means post any recipes you wish to.

I enjoy my veggies, it simply takes loads of them to fill me up. I do wish I lived somewhere where veggies were cheaper... I love a good plate of purple hulls, cabbage and home-style creamed corn, with a good hot piece of cornbread, but the fact is that the price of most veggies is prohibitive on our limited budget. Whereas 2 cups of noodles or rice and a half pound of beef will make a meal that will serve all of us, it takes 6 cups of veggies to do the same. I can get 5 pounds of ground beef for around $7 and a 5 lb. bag of rice for around a $1.50, and that will feed us for an entire week. Canned veggies and frozen run in the neighborhood of $1.19 cents per 12 oz (why don't they sell this stuff in even pound increments??)... To get the same 10 meals out of veggies would take nearly $24. Now, that may not sound like much to most of you, but consider that my grocery budget also includes such mundane items as toilet paper, detergent, bath soap, shampoos, deodorants, cleansers, tooth care products - you get the idea. Now consider that my weekly grocery budget is $25. Now you can appreciate why meat & rice is much more amenable to our budget than strictly veggie meals.

We have to eat, and we have to keep ourselves and our home clean... I simply cannot do both if we eat veggie meals. It's a mere matter of economics.

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Hari's Chick

Apr 02, 2002, 10:25 PM

Cool! I will post some recipes on the "Anybody Hungry" topic, then! I will look up the recipe for samosas...one of George's favorites http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/heart3.gif

I was wondering if anyone needed suggestions on good veggie cookbooks~ so I went through mine & found my five favorites.

1. "Vegetariana" by Nava Atlas~ I love this because all of the recipes are wonderful, creative, and easy to make. This is my all time favorite. It also has delightful illustrations and witty anecdotes about food origins and folklore.

2. "The Complete Vegetarian Cuisine" by Rose Elliot~ This is like the veggie encyclopedia! It has nutritional info, info on how to select produce, how to store, cook, freeze, everything. It has pictures of everything... (for example 44 different grains!) and includes recipes which range from home-cooking to more fancy.

3. "Great Vegetarian Dishes" by Kurma Dasa. This is a wonderful book. It has many of my absolute favorite recipes in it! The lasagne in it is the one served at the Krishna restaurant next door to MPL, rumoured to have been enjoyed by Paul!

4. "Cooking for Consciousness"~ this has just every basic recipe you need to be a veggie. It has simple things in it~ like how to make a non-gelatin based jello from agar, a seaweed. It also has digger bread!!

5. "Art of Indian Vegetarian Cooking" by Yamuna Devi~ this is the very best Indian cookbook ever! Yamuna is George's friend~ and sung the lead on the "Hare Krishna Mantra" record. Her "Yamuna's Table" is very good, too. http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

Anyone else have favorites???

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"Out of the LSD madness (and there were a few horrors) there came a few 'zaps'. It made me laugh. I'd never thought about it, couldn't even say the word 'God'. It embarrassed me, but it was so strange, GOD, and it washed away all these fears and doubts and little things that hang you up."