Where do we go now? [Archive] - BeatleLinks Fab Forum

SleepyHead

Sep 17, 2001, 07:08 AM

I'm sorry to have been so out of touch for the past several weeks. I
have been wondering if perhaps the whole nation, or at least my city,
was somehow subconsciously aware of some disturbance about to occur.
Now why do I say that? Because for the first time since my children
entered school over 7 years ago, I've been having battle-royals with
teachers, principals, school counselors, etc... Bless your hearts, I
know you're not interested in all that petty crap right now, I just
wanted to point out that most of these battles have been nit-picky in
the extreme, obviously the type of nit-picking that comes of being
under extreme duress. And I've been responding to it like someone who
was under stress.

On top of the school problems, it is also the time of year when we
Catholics who cannot afford proper parochial education for our children
enroll them in our local parish's Public School of Religion (PSR - used
to be CCD, or Confraternity of Christian Doctrine). Although my own
parish has always made it a practice not to hold poor families
responsible for the neglible PSR fees, my stiff-necked pride wouldn't
let me enroll my kids for the past 2 years, and my guilty feelings have
kept us away from Mass, as well.

Not this year... And I've begun a personal soul-searching that has been
heart-wrenching in the least, all due to my renewed dedication to get
back to my roots.

Only 3 short weeks since I've been embroiled in this personal crusade,
and some madman who is most probably acting out of his own personal
religious convictions has devastated our country by his senseless
murders of thousands of innocents. He didn't target customary military
installations... he targeted one of the major roots of our economic
society, and he targeted one that plays host to a multitude of foreign
interests, as well. You know they are saying that the Pentagon wasn't
the original target, that they have reason to believe that the White
House was the original target for that plane. They also have reason to
believe that the plane our brave citizens attempted to wrest from the
hijackers over Pennsylvania was enroute to the airport where Air Force
One usually lands, in a possible attempt to destroy our President upon
either his arrival or attempted departure, depending on his actual
activities of the day.

While I concede that the President makes a logical target for any
militaristic retaliation for grievances real or perceived, the fact
that there were innocents aboard the plane itself negates all of this
fanatic's purposes. Battles in history have always striven to remain
honourable... while battle itself is heinous, at least the differing
parties to them have attempted to restrict their attacks to those who
were actively involved in the battle, and there has seldom been a lack
of understanding the intent of the battle-mongers, regardless of
whether we find that intent worthy of battle or not.

This madman has neglected to state his purpose in waging these acts of
war against the World Trade Center, or the Pentagon, or the US, or
whoever the target was intended to be. If our presence in his country
is his problem, he has gone way overboard to state his position, and
only ensured that our presence will not only be keenly felt, but
multiplied to such an extent that unless he is privy to technology or
resources we are unaware of, can only result in his complete
anihilation, as well as a multitude of his followers, friends and
neighbors.

I fear the US has entered or will be compelled to enter a Holy War...
and I grieve for our country. Our country was founded on the belief
that all should have the right to practice religion each in his or her
own way. That very belief may very well be our undoing. If most of us
who do practice our religion were totally honest with ourselves, and
took our respective books of religion (be it the Bible, the Torah, the
Koran, the Book of Mormon, etc.) seriously, we would realise that our
religions were set up to be a way of life in all aspects, not as a
weekend or holy day off-duty activity only to be acknowledged away from
the workplace.

It is our industrial nations that live this way, undedicated to God or
Allah or any other Supreme Being, and un-united in our resolve to
remain so. It is the so-called third world countries that constantly
battle to keep their country aligned properly with their Supreme Being,
or Creator.

I don't want to step on any toes here... but I do firmly believe that
all of our respective Higher Beings, whatever we may call them, all
boil down to only one Presence. All of these entities have encouraged
tolerance, love, and respect, which we strive to achieve most of the
time. But the ones I am familiar with also strive to point out that the
only way to achieve the Goal is to follow the strictures of the
religion itself - a Holy Goal, as it were, that we of the United States
are unfamiliar with, by and large. We have replaced God with the
Constitution, with the Bill of Rights, with our Constitutional
Amendments, with Law, with the stated goals of our Founding Fathers -
which was that we should be free to practice our religion unfettered.

Our Founding Fathers dedicated our country to God... "In God We Trust"
is printed on every piece of legal tender in this country. Except, that
is, where it interferes with our government, our schools, our jobs...

If we, as a country, enter a Holy War with those who are dedicated to
one, and only one, God - we lose. We will either lose the war, or we
will win the war, and prove to the whole world that we do not believe
that all are privileged to practice their religion.

On the scary side, as much as I profess to believe in God, on Tuesday,
had someone given me an AK47, and pointed me at the perpetrator of the
atrocites committed here that morning, I would have waded in with my
weapon in one hand, and my Rosary in the other. And my God said, point
blank, "If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn also the other cheek
to him. If someone steals your cloak, give him also your coat. Do unto
others as you would have done unto yourself. Love the Lord your God
above all others, love your neighbor as yourself, and love each other
as I have loved you."

Where do we go now?

Love,
René

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Sep 17, 2001, 07:44 AM

Sleepy, it's very nice to hear from you. http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif I hope things haven't gotten you down too much and that you're able to stand tall and pull through all the niggles in life that persist at the moment. That was all very beautifully said by the way, and I completely agree with you on all fronts. I only hope that the answer to your question is not "to war" - and like you, it seems to me if this is inevitable. Maybe we need a miracle to save us all.

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SleepyHead

Sep 17, 2001, 07:48 AM

Thanks, NWM, I have been rather down a lot lately. Well, the past week anyway. The other weeks were taken up with other matters, and it was shocking to me that even after all that "getting back to my roots" the only thing I could think of on Tuesday was praying very, very hard, and shooting the blazes out of someone. Not a very decent Christian feeling, is it?

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jami

Sep 17, 2001, 08:35 AM

VERY nicely said, Rene .... I'm so happy you're back to posting again, I've missed you. As NWM said, try not to let this get you too down. Just keep your faith with you, and you'll have nothing to fear.

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Rellevart

Sep 17, 2001, 08:37 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote:<HR>Originally Posted By SleepyHead:
the only thing I could think of on Tuesday was praying very, very hard, and shooting the blazes out of someone. Not a very decent Christian feeling, is it?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, but the fact that you didn't actually DO it is. http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif Hang in there.

I haven't fully digested your long and eloquent post yet, but I just wanted to quickly comment that even with all the huge things going on right now, your smaller struggles are also still significant and we DO care about them.

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Hey, don't you know that I'm....always going back in time....

Tim

Sep 17, 2001, 08:49 AM

Rene,first off,I'm glad you're here again,and I hope you are successful in your search. http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

Now for what burns me up with this: The Revs. Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson saying we deserved for this to happen due to tolerating feminism,homosexuality,and abortion...that because of this God had to punish us! http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/angry4.gifhttp://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/angry3.gifhttp://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/angry4.gif

I mean,come on now,this si intolerable-the fundamentalist Christians here also preach intolerance(witness Robertson in one of his Presidential bids saying only Born-Again Christians and Orthodox Jews shopuld be allowed in positions of leadership).

It's attitudes like this that pushed me into Alternative/New Age religion...

Please accept my apologies if I had offended anyone,I find stuff like this too much to take in this time,my nervers like all are on edge...

Love and Peace to all,

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SleepyHead

Sep 17, 2001, 09:20 AM

Their statements were entirely uncalled for - I agree. They are off the mark entirely. They condemn those who have only sought to practice what our great country has striven to provide - the right to live as they see fit. I don't necessarily agree with how they choose to live their lives, but I do agree they have the right to do so.

The fact is, though, this battle was begun, in all likelihood, by a person or persons who actually believe in the same God most of us profess to believe in - the God of Abraham, of Isaac, of Jacob. However, they believe we've badly perverted the truths handed down since time immemorial to the point where we actually offend God by our mere presence on this earth. Those people who Falwell and Robertson blame are (the ones I know, anyway) believers, too - but they choose to interpret those truths differently. We have, as a human race, spent millenia interpreting those truths differently, and while some of us have spent countless billions of dollars and human lives defending our right to interpret those truths for ourselves, others of us have spent just as much saying "Here is the truth; accept it, or begone from the face of God's earth."

Still others of us have learned Christianity - which negates both of the above versions of life as it stands. We are to love God first, love our neighbors as ourselves, and to love each other as Jesus has loved us. We are to preach His teachings of love to all - and that is being done by so very few these days.

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Sep 17, 2001, 10:25 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote:<HR>Originally Posted By Tim:
Now for what burns me up with this: The Revs. Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson saying we deserved for this to happen due to tolerating feminism,homosexuality,and abortion...that because of this God had to punish us! http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/angry4.gifhttp://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/angry3.gifhttp://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/angry4.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, this was just a little far-fetched for mine too in all that they had to say. Of course, just like the rest of us, they have the right to voice their own opinions.

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Lynner

Sep 17, 2001, 10:50 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote:<HR>Originally Posted By SleepyHead:

On top of the school problems, it is also the time of year when we
Catholics who cannot afford proper parochial education for our children
enroll them in our local parish's Public School of Religion (PSR - used
to be CCD, or Confraternity of Christian Doctrine). Although my own
parish has always made it a practice not to hold poor families
responsible for the neglible PSR fees, my stiff-necked pride wouldn't
let me enroll my kids for the past 2 years, and my guilty feelings have
kept us away from Mass, as well.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hi Sleepy - nice that you're posting again. You've been missed. I just wanted to reply top your above comments. My daughter is in our public school and we've just enrolled her in CCD. (We still call it that here.) It was our personal choice to send her to the public school. The main reason was we felt that educationally it was the better school. Our parish also will waive the fee for CCD classes, but my way around them this year was to teach. On top of everything else that I do, I will become a catechist and teach CCD to first graders beginning this Saturday. I mention this because I'm wondering if it's also something you could do - if time permits, of course. Our church was looking for teaching volunteers. Having never done this before, I'm understandably worried, but I think it will be okay. It's also made me more interested in going to mass again. That and with what's been happening to our country this past week has strengthened my faith. If you ever want to talk about this further, let me know. I know I don't have all the answers, but sometimes you just need an open ear or a shoulder to lean on.

Lynn

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SleepyHead

Sep 17, 2001, 10:51 AM

They do have the right to their own opinions - and I will defend that right. However, they have accused God of beginning this as a punishment, and that doesn't go down well at all. God created us with free will, so that we may freely offer Him praise and homage - He will not take back that magnificent gift. He can only look on sorrowfully at all of His children fighting, hoping that at least some will turn to Him for comfort.

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Sep 17, 2001, 10:56 AM

Quite right - and I don't think you'll find a single soul here who agrees with their "accusations".

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SleepyHead

Sep 17, 2001, 10:57 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote:<HR>Originally Posted By Lynner:
Hi Sleepy - nice that you're posting again. You've been missed. I just wanted to reply top your above comments. My daughter is in our public school and we've just enrolled her in CCD. (We still call it that here.) It was our personal choice to send her to the public school. The main reason was we felt that educationally it was the better school. Our parish also will waive the fee for CCD classes, but my way around them this year was to teach. On top of everything else that I do, I will become a catechist and teach CCD to first graders beginning this Saturday. I mention this because I'm wondering if it's also something you could do - if time permits, of course. Our church was looking for teaching volunteers. Having never done this before, I'm understandably worried, but I think it will be okay. It's also made me more interested in going to mass again. That and with what's been happening to our country this past week has strengthened my faith. If you ever want to talk about this further, let me know. I know I don't have all the answers, but sometimes you just need an open ear or a shoulder to lean on.

Lynn

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Congrats on seeking to become a catechist, Lynn! We welcomed our catechists yesterday at Mass. I have seriously considered becoming a catechist, but I feel so unworthy of such a position. I haven't done real well with my own children, who live with me day in, day out - I shudder to think I may unintentionally misguide some other loving mother's child with wrong interpretations of the Church's teachings.

Also, as long as I remain in a job with hours similar to the ones I work now, merely attending the classes is impossible. I can't even attend the local free Greco classes, as they are held on Tuesday evenings, and I start my work week on Tuesday afternoon.

I was asked once to become a LEM - I didn't then, and don't now feel worthy of even participating that way. Sometimes, I feel like such a wuss...

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Lynner

Sep 17, 2001, 11:08 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote:<HR>Originally Posted By SleepyHead:

I have seriously considered becoming a catechist, but I feel so unworthy of such a position. I haven't done real well with my own children, who live with me day in, day out - I shudder to think I may unintentionally misguide some other loving mother's child with wrong interpretations of the Church's teachings.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I for one do not think you're a wuss. I also do not think you are unworthy of being a catechist. Of course, you yourself know best what you can and cannot do. I wouldn't worry about mis-guiding someone else's children. They've givien us a ton of material to use to teach. Any answers that we ourselves are not sure of, we can go to others for help and answers. It's too bad that your work schedule keeps you from taking classes. As someone who works part-time, I know how difficult it is to juggle work, home, kids, etc. As a mom, I sympathize with you. Again, if you ever what to discuss any of this outside the forum, feel free to email me - I signed up for a Beatlemail account today!

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SleepyHead

Sep 17, 2001, 11:45 AM

Your email account must not be quite activated yet... I tried to email you, and it bounced right back, saying there was no such an account. I'll try again later, give 'em time to update things a bit...

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old_moon_shining

Sep 17, 2001, 03:42 PM

As rellevart mentioned I too am having trouble absorbing everything in this topic. So I'll start by just saying to Sleepy that it is so good to hear from you. I have missed you and wondered where you were but didn't feel it was my place to ask. I am happy to see you back.

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"There is a time for everything.....a time to be silent and a time to speak.."

bearkat77

Sep 17, 2001, 04:17 PM

OMS, if you ever want to know the whereabouts of http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/sleep2.gif, just ask. Either her or I will respond. http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/grin.gif

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old_moon_shining

Sep 17, 2001, 07:30 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote:<HR>Originally Posted By SleepyHead:

Still others of us have learned Christianity - which negates both of the above versions of life as it stands. We are to love God first, love our neighbors as ourselves, and to love each other as Jesus has loved us. We are to preach His teachings of love to all - and that is being done by so very few these days.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree with much of what you say Sleepy. God is our judge and while if we study his word we do know what his standards are and we can recommend them as a better way of life it is ultimately him that will deal with things. He is not going to use terrorists to achieve his work.

Kat if that situation should arise again I will ask. Thank-you. I am feeling more comfortable here all of the time.

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"There is a time for everything.....a time to be silent and a time to speak.."

old_moon_shining

Sep 17, 2001, 07:32 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote:<HR>Originally Posted By Tim:

It's attitudes like this that pushed me into Alternative/New Age religion...

Please accept my apologies if I had offended anyone,I find stuff like this too much to take in this time,my nervers like all are on edge...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

First of all I don't think anyone should feel that they are offending by simply stating how they feel about a thing. This has been a very hard week for everyone especially people who watch the world carefully and care about things.
With regard to your feelings about organized religions you are not alone. Many people feel that they have been let down, and while they still believe in God, search about for answers.

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"There is a time for everything.....a time to be silent and a time to speak.."

[This Message Has Been Edited By old_moon_shining On September 17, 2001 07:39 PM]

jtal909

Sep 17, 2001, 08:12 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote:<HR>Originally Posted By SleepyHead:

If we, as a country, enter a Holy War with those who are dedicated to
one, and only one, God - we lose. We will either lose the war, or we
will win the war, and prove to the whole world that we do not believe
that all are privileged to practice their religion.

[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If murdering civilians throughout the world is a religion, then yes, we do not believe that he is privileged to practice, but otherwise, I fail to see the reverence to this part of your essay.

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[This Message Has Been Edited By jtal909 On September 17, 2001 08:13 PM]

Lynner

Sep 18, 2001, 08:58 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote:<HR>Originally Posted By SleepyHead:
Your email account must not be quite activated yet... I tried to email you, and it bounced right back, saying there was no such an account. I'll try again later, give 'em time to update things a bit...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Rell' checked my email for me - I had a typo in my profile. It's been corrected and I'm now receiving mail. Looking forward to hearing from you.

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Tim

Sep 18, 2001, 10:33 AM

Thanks, old_moon http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif!!!!

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JCB410

Sep 18, 2001, 10:51 AM

If we, as a country, enter a Holy War with those who are dedicated to
one, and only one, God - we lose. We will either lose the war, or we
will win the war, and prove to the whole world that we do not believe
that all are privileged to practice their religion.

On the scary side, as much as I profess to believe in God, on Tuesday,
had someone given me an AK47, and pointed me at the perpetrator of the
atrocites committed here that morning, I would have waded in with my
weapon in one hand, and my Rosary in the other. And my God said, point
blank, "If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn also the other cheek
to him. If someone steals your cloak, give him also your coat. Do unto
others as you would have done unto yourself. Love the Lord your God
above all others, love your neighbor as yourself, and love each other
as I have loved you."

Where do we go now?

Love,
René

[/B][/QUOTE]I do know what you mean Rene--
and when I first joined up with Beatlelinks,
I didn't want to (nor did I feel it was
probably necessary) to share any political-
type beliefs, but you raised my eyebrows a
bit on your last 2 paragraphs and I'd like
to comment on them:... (perhaps people will
understand what I mean and use the info. in
a positive, unhurtful way?- that's what I'm
hoping!). So here goes: In terms of the 1st
paragraph I listed above from your posting--
If we win this war-(which I think we
will) and we enter that "Holy War"-(as you say) with those who are dedicated to "only
one" God, I don't think because of that
we're "set up" to lose in the end. Because I
feel that in the national anthem and what
America truly stands for is yes, the right
to be priviliged and practice religion, but
NOT if that religion uses hate or violence
as a "predominant" to what "their" God
supposedly believes. In all the interviews
on t.v. for example that I've seen recently,
it's been great to see Preachers, Rabbis,
Muslim and Arab leaders, Catholic heads of
church,etc. all agree that indeed we should
have that "right" to believe in our God,
but NOT if that God is a negative, violent
or hateful God. Why??-- because "God" to
most people in the world is a God of LOVE and
PEACE. That to me is why America is a special
and great place--(if their leaders don't
screw it up!)and it indeed stands for freedom
of religion, but with freedom in general; and
the freedom (and firm right) to simply LIVE..

2nd (and last) paragraph from above: I know
what you mean there-(esp. about "where do
we go from here"?) and "if" your God said
pull the trigger to the person responsible
for that horrendous tragedy and to "do to
others as you would have done unto yourself",
in the case of eliminating the person (or
persons...) responsible for the tragedy, I
think most people would agree in the world
that "because" this tragedy was so horrific
and unthinkable, in this case you SHOULD pull
the trigger to those responsible. But the
distinction to be made here is: There's a
big DIFFERANCE between someone who has
committed a horrible atrocity and have whatever "your God" professes to do about it,
versus someone "not" committing such an act!
Again, God is a God of LOVE & PEACE-- and to
those who have a God "not" of that belief,
their religion--(if you want to call it that)
is not a TRUE religion to even begin with.
Another short conclusion: War and hate are
not, nor should they ever be designated as
"religion". In fact in the end, I'm hoping as I know many are, that things like war and
hate won't even be "designated" at all. (And
besides, Ringo's whole career he says, is
based on peace and love... "thank you dear
Ringo"!!)

May peace be with us-- JC

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//*//--"you may say I'm
a dreamer, but
I'm not the only
one"--

Tim

Sep 18, 2001, 11:10 AM

JCB-the problem is, too many will lump the Taliban,bin Laden,etc. in with the Muslims in general, 99% of muslims do not condone violence or terrorism,just the minority that twist the Quran foir their goals, As Christ said "Even the Devil can quote Scripture to suit his purposes".
I've even heard nuts saying to forget about the Constitution and put all Arabs in concentration camps,like the horror done to Japanese-Americans in WW II.
Besides which--we have to root out our domestics terrorist cells first-groups like the Michigan Militia(McVeigh didn't end that group)--and the Irish-Americans that give aid to the IRA--then worry with foreign terrorists.

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JCB410

Sep 18, 2001, 01:28 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote:<HR>Originally Posted By Tim:
JCB-the problem is, too many will lump the Taliban,bin Laden,etc. in with the Muslims in general, 99% of muslims do not condone violence or terrorism,just the minority that twist the Quran foir their goals, As Christ said "Even the Devil can quote Scripture to suit his purposes".
I've even heard nuts saying to forget about the Constitution and put all Arabs in concentration camps,like the horror done to Japanese-Americans in WW II.
Besides which--we have to root out our domestics terrorist cells first-groups like the Michigan Militia(McVeigh didn't end that group)--and the Irish-Americans that give aid to the IRA--then worry with foreign terrorists.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I know what you mean Tim, and
actually that's just my point really. I mean,
for those "to" lump the Ben Ladins,etc. in
with the Muslims,etc. "are" missing the point
and will hopefully all wake up and see that
terrorist activity (of any kind!) should
not stand no matter "who" did the atrocity.
And really good point ala "even the Devil
can quote scripture to his own purposes".
What I'm implicating (along with the main
basics) in my previous posting is just that
kind of thing to steer away from-- if people
are intelligent enough to see and know that
hate and violence is not "the way" in ANY
form or religion, than they'll perhaps
eventually know not to follow in the footsteps or "teachings" of the B. Ladins,
etc. who are perpetrators not "God sends".
And I agree-- many will "lump" these horrible
terrorists/perpetrators with whatever religion,etc. they belong, but that's another
issue that also Bush and others should be
addressing. Indeed, it's just as bad for
folks to be lumping terrorists with a whole
group in general as much as it's horrible to
say "forget about the Constitution and put
"all" Arabs in concentration camps-- that
just doesn't make any sense at all. Yet in
that way to, I also stand by my posting in
the grand "finale" of things-- Peace & Love
is the answer. (if "they" ever get it right)*

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//*//--"you may say I'm
a dreamer, but
I'm not the only
one"--

SleepyHead

Sep 18, 2001, 01:58 PM

I went to BooksaMillion last night, and actually considered buying a copy of the Koran, the Islamic Bible as it were. It was a standard issue copy, written in both Arabic and English, and I was horrified to find so many references to killing others in it's pages. One paragraph I distinctly remember said for the followers to enter into treaties with their enemies, but that if that "enemy" ever once broke faith with the followers, then the followers were to arm and search and hunt out all of the enemy, their friends, and their loved ones.

I may still buy it, but I don't want my children reading it at all.

The fact is, we don't have to acknowledge that bin Laden is a correct Muslim, how many Muslims will actually believe that what he is doing is justified, being that the Koran was handed down to their prophet Muhammed ibn Abdullah by no less an entity than God Himself? And furthermore, Muhammed himself told his followers from the get go, that the god they had worshipped since time immemorial as al-Lah was none other than the Yahweh of the Jews and the God of the Christians?

I can't make the teachings in the Koran jibe with the teachings of the New Testament at all, but that doesn't mean that others won't.

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old_moon_shining

Sep 18, 2001, 05:22 PM

The principal quality of God is love but I find it comforting to know that this is balanced by other important qualities too. He is also a God of justice. Psalm 33:5.
We are made in his image so therefore we also feel a need for justice. He has shown great patience with the way people have behaved but that doesn't mean that he's not interested and not going to do something.

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"There is a time for everything.....a time to be silent and a time to speak.."

SleepyHead

Sep 19, 2001, 01:00 AM

Justice, yes. War, no.

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darkhorse

Sep 19, 2001, 09:35 AM

Totally agree. http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

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Give me love, give me peace on Earth

Sep 19, 2001, 01:13 PM

If only the rest of the world would. <sigh>

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FiendishThingie

Sep 19, 2001, 04:49 PM

Last night I was watching the BBC News. They interviewed some students studying at an American University in Cairo. I was floored when I heard what these young Egyptians had to say.

They totally feel that Americans are blaming ALL ARABS & ALL MUSLIMS for the attack!!!

HELLLLLOOOO! EXCUSE ME??? My fellow Americans??? Is this true??? If so, I must be a minority here!!!

Is this really how the rest of the world thinks Americans feel? I know we've been known to be thick headed, even stupid at times, but PUH-LEEZ!!!

For all of you outside of the USA, can I please say that from where I'm sitting, I've only heard of a few incidences on the news where there was a thick headed person who felt this way. I don't think I'm being naive when I tell you that this isn't how the majority of Americans feel at all. I mean, think about it... We're a nation made up of all other nations!!!

Again, for those of you outside the USA, please do NOT buy into that story! And please pass it along so others don't believe it's the majority here!

FT

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jtal909

Sep 19, 2001, 06:36 PM

Justice in this case will have to be war of sorts. It's possible that Iraq is involved, now. The apparent ringleader of the suicide pilots was seen recently with Iraqi intelligence. If we had waged war against Hussein after his troops were spanked out of Kuwait, things just might be different today. But we were all about justice.
I'm not a war monger (I was raised in the 60's), but I'm pretty pissed off about recent events. (Can I say pissed off here?)

jami

Sep 19, 2001, 08:26 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote:<HR>Originally Posted By jtal909:
(Can I say pissed off here?)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Heeehe! Yup, I think ya just did http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/wink.gif

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jami

Sep 19, 2001, 08:27 PM

bearkat77

Sep 19, 2001, 09:19 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote:<HR>Originally Posted By FiendishThingie:
I mean, think about it... We're a nation made up of all other nations!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We are the Melting Pot of the world.

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joe

Sep 20, 2001, 12:14 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote:<HR>Originally Posted By bearkat77:
We are the Melting Pot of the world.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
we better be
take it from the chefhttp://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/pimp.gifit's like adding cheese to a sauce:if we're not melting together,we will separate and burn.http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/angry8.gif

all you need is love...

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[This Message Has Been Edited By joe On September 20, 2001 12:14 AM]

Rellevart

Sep 20, 2001, 05:11 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote:<HR>Originally Posted By FiendishThingie:

HELLLLLOOOO! EXCUSE ME??? My fellow Americans??? Is this true??? If so, I must be a minority here!!!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, FT, it's not true. But there do seem to be quite a number of people who unfortunately do feel that way. I myself have been floored by things I've read on ABC news message boards (to name just one source) that are filled with this sort of intolerance. It's amazing to me because I definitely agree with you that I don't think the majority of Americans think that way. At least I hope not.

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Hey, don't you know that I'm....always going back in time....

Tim

Sep 20, 2001, 06:22 AM

A lot of the neo-racism/resentment towards Arabs is for different reason-like here in Detroit,a lot of Blacks have been trying to have a boycott of gas stations,saying it's unfair that most are Arab-owned,same with groceries and convenience stores. I don't doubt that type of resentment,especially towards gasoline prices,etc. is fueling this.

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Sep 20, 2001, 09:17 AM

It is unfortunate, yeah, and the same thing is happening here - a lot of abuse and so on directed towards the Islamic community, almost as if people here hold them responsible for what happened. Again, it's just a small minority of trouble-makers who are stirring things up, I'm sure on the whole most Aussies (like most Americans) understand the situation and know these people have nothing whatsoever to do with any of this and are just trying to live their lives as before.

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FiendishThingie

Sep 20, 2001, 11:42 AM

Wow! Really NWM? I'm sorry to hear that there's some of that even "down under". I guess some people just feel they have to blame someone and it's not enough to just blame the group that actually DID cause the terror. Maybe some people feel they need to do something locally. Of course, that just hurts innocent people. http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/sad.gif

Yeah, Rell! I think the intolerance got to me! I just needed to vent about it because it's just such a waste of energy & I don't feel it solves a thing. I think we need to focus on a solution.

Hey Joe, That cheese sauce sounds pretty tasty right now! http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/tongue2.gif (Sorry, I'm hungry!)

FT - feeling much better now that she talked to her Beatle Buddies! Thanks guys!!!

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Sep 21, 2001, 03:50 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote:<HR>Originally Posted By FiendishThingie:
Wow! Really NWM? I'm sorry to hear that there's some of that even "down under". I guess some people just feel they have to blame someone and it's not enough to just blame the group that actually DID cause the terror. Maybe some people feel they need to do something locally. Of course, that just hurts innocent people. http://www.beatlelinks.net/ubb/smilies/sad.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

FT - exactly, yes. We're certainly not immune to it down here - there have been instances of Arabs being abused (physically and verbally), mosques have been attacked, had eggs and rocks thrown at windows, even store owners have had their shops targeted with bricks and things. Some Islamic schools have had to be shut down as well because of the abuse students faced on the way to and from school. I've heard of similar stories from the US - but as I said, only a very small minority of people with a few issues it seems they really need to resolve. For the most part, everyone here has been extremely supportive of both American & Islamic communities, which is good to see.

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jtal909

Sep 21, 2001, 05:08 PM

Let's get real here. we are reeling from the worst single racially motivated attack in history. Expect some hard feelings to surface here and there from people everywhere.

Sep 21, 2001, 09:29 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote:<HR>Originally Posted By jtal909:
Expect some hard feelings to surface here and there from people everywhere.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Might just be a song in that.

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